"Dashing" Russian military pilots look clearly redundant

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"Dashing" Russian military pilots look clearly redundantNumerous incidents with the rapprochement of Russian and American aircraft and ships seem to have come to an end. At least, there are signs that the highest military-political leadership of the country gave the Armed Forces a direct order to no longer allow incidents similar to the famous case of the overflight of the American destroyer Donald Cook. Why was this decision made?

The Kremlin’s statement on Friday about how Vladimir Putin relates to incidents between Russian and NATO aircraft and ships is so curious that it requires separate reflection.



Recall, presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov did not confirm and did not refute the information that the Russian leader allegedly “laid siege” to the meeting’s participant for “confrontational” words about the incident in the Black Sea, RIA reports.News". According to him, Vladimir Putin is not a supporter of heightening the tension of the international situation and is in favor of following the provisions of international law documents in order to avoid dangerous incidents.

“The closed meetings are held in order to exchange views on the most topical issues in a free mode, so I can neither confirm nor deny this information,” said Peskov. And its non-repudiation looks like a clear signal to the military. According to Bloomberg, Putin called the "high risk" incident when Russian military aircraft flew in close proximity to an American ship in the Black Sea. During the meeting, according to the agency, some of its participants said that the Americans "deserved it." In response, Putin asked: "Are you out of your mind?"

We are talking about overflights of the Russian sea and coastal aviation American warships in the Black and Baltic Seas, primarily about two cases with the long-suffering destroyer Donald Cook, which caused an extraordinary resonance. The American side accused Moscow of violating the provisions of international law of the sea, and a wave of cheer-patriotic emotions arose on the Russian Internet. Then, in the spring of 2016, the position of the Kremlin, voiced by Dmitry Peskov, was much more categorical. Dmitry Peskov then said that he "tends to identify with the explanations that were provided by representatives of the Ministry of Defense." Despite the general similar tone, then it looked like support for the actions of sea pilots, the current comments seriously change the general background.

International maritime law is one of the oldest legal systems regulating legal relations, including between the military fleets non-belligerent states. But precisely because of its antiquity, lacunae constantly appear in it, which need to be filled in the course of the development of technical means and the changing international situation. At the same time, the military component is regulated by civil law - except in cases of open hostilities.

But since 1939, mankind does not remember the “official declaration” of war by one state to another, when an official note is sent through diplomatic channels, embassies are sent and countries are very gentlemenly “go to you”. Even the Argentine-British 1982 war of the Falklands in fact was undeclared, and the legal regime of the sea was regulated by very dubious unilateral acts. For example, London simply declared the two-hundred-mile zone around the islands a “war zone” and “recommended” to foreign ships not to go there. All this did not prevent the British submarine “Conqueror” from sinking the Argentine cruiser “General Belgrano” outside the two-hundred-mile zone, motivating it with “the right moment” and “danger to the British fleet”. The 323 of an Argentine sailor died - roughly half of all Argentine casualties of that war. In fact, the declaration itself of this two-hundred-mile zone was already a violation of international legal norms for conducting military operations at sea, and the sinking of “General Belgrano” was the only one stories attack by a nuclear submarine surface ship - and does a war crime. But Argentina was denied an international court "for the expiration of the statute of limitations."

As a result, existing maritime law is constantly subject to adjustments, mainly through bilateral or multilateral agreements, which seem to be taken as a precedent, based on the Anglo-Saxon interpretation, but ignored by those countries that did not sign these documents. Soviet Union in 70-x and the beginning of 80-ies (and these documents are still in force, in Russia’s succession to the Soviet international agreements) with the United States, Great Britain, Germany, Italy, France, Canada and Greece (the latter is not here for wit, and as one of the largest owners of the merchant fleet in the world) “on the prevention of incidents outside of territorial waters”. These agreements require warships to parties to the agreements in all cases to be far enough apart from each other to avoid the risk of collisions, they oblige warships and aircraft not to undertake imitations of attacks or imitations of use weapons, not to conduct maneuvers in areas of intensive navigation, as well as to prevent some other actions that could lead to incidents at sea and in the airspace above it.

The key phrase in this document is “at a sufficient distance”. The texts of the treaties (at least in their open articles) do not indicate specific distances in miles and heights in meters that are no longer “sufficient”. Article IV of the Agreement between the USSR and the United States on the prevention of incidents in the open sea and the airspace above it is as follows: “The commanders of the crews of each Party’s aircraft must exercise the greatest caution and prudence when approaching the aircraft of the other Party operating over the open sea and the ships of the other Party in the open sea, in particular to ships engaged in the release or reception of aircraft, and in the interests of mutual security should not allow: imitation of attacks by simulating the use of weapons on aircraft , any ships, performing various aerobatic figures over the ships and dropping various objects near them in such a way that they represent a danger to the ships or a hindrance to navigation ”.

It is worth adding in brackets that the most important document for Soviet military pilots — the Manual on Combat Service — spelled out specific values, the closer of which it was forbidden to approach NATO ships, both in distance and height.

Maritime law is largely based on common sense, as opposed to, say, tax. The captain of the vessel and the commander of the aircraft crew, in theory, he himself must understand that "enough" to "avoid the risk of collisions," and what is no longer, that is, according to the contract, "exercise the greatest caution and prudence." But at the same time, the rejection of “imitating attacks or imitating the use of weapons” is a very specific concept.

The American side just accused the Russian Air Force of “imitating attacks”, and John Kerry after the second incident with the same “Donald Cook” (already in the Baltic Sea - an unhappy ship) suddenly started talking about the “rules of hostilities”, although no war on Baltic is not. “We condemn this behavior. This is reckless, provocative, it is dangerous. In accordance with the rules of engagement, they (Russian planes) could have been shot down, ”said Kerry, adding that the United States would not allow“ intimidation at sea ”and recalled that the Russian side was informed of the US position on the danger of such actions. The Russian side in the face of anonymous sources in the army and navy appealed to the pseudo-patriotic feelings: "there is nothing to swim here", "stay at home", "they drove our urban ones".

But the history of overflights of Western warships from this has not ceased to be very practical and legal, although it threatened to turn into an ideological campaign. On the Internet, a hurray-patriotic wave began. Some sofa craftsmen even ordered a commemorative “Peace Lessons Lesson” token with the image of Su-24 flying over an American destroyer with the inscription: “Grozen, but Disarmed”, which is sold on the Internet for 1000 rubles. You can order any token at the Mint, it is not prohibited by law, but it will not belong to the official list of government awards and this initiative is in no way connected with the MO Prize department.

But one thing is a “couch” reaction, and another is when these actions were at the level of emotions supported by part of senior and senior officers of land origin. A former high-ranking officer of the Russian Air Force, who had a direct connection with naval aviation, commented to the newspaper VIEW on the possible reaction of the president like this. If our pilots not only do not comply with international rules for overflight of foreign warships, putting themselves at risk, and they even boast about it, it is not far from trouble. Under international law, Americans have every right to bring down these cowboys. People will die, and the situation will heat up to the limit. Get out of the situation will not commanders, and already diplomats and politicians. And how events will develop after such an incident in general - only God knows. And the fact that the Americans themselves violate all agreements on the law of the sea will no longer worry anyone. The Russian side will definitely be to blame for the specific episode, and in an environment where decisions are made very quickly, you can even sink this “Donald Cook” with coastal funds, answering two hundred in two deaths. And there and close to World War II.

As the high-ranking officer told the newspaper VIEW, when one of the land commanders was told about the recklessness of the pilots on the Baltic Sea, he actually sanctioned all of this on emotions: type, well done, drive them further. The tanker does not have to be familiar with the international maritime law and the details of such actions, which does not relieve him of responsibility if something goes wrong. And this is not a textbook conflict between the infantry and aviation, but an attack of hurray-patriotism, which has passed the line of reasonable.

Let's talk about the practical feasibility of such shares. If anyone has forgotten, then we don’t live in the 1941 year, and for a long time the bomber doesn’t have to be directly above the enemy ship. Tactical launch of anti-ship missiles is carried out from a distance of tens to hundreds of kilometers to the target. Tactical strike imitation is a permanent element of coastal aviation training in all fleets. Moreover, such training can be carried out even without a missile suspension - electronics allows you to track the data of the simulation start. And the Black and Baltic seas are puddles, even massive use of aviation is not required there, modern coastal defense systems are enough.

“To practice attack techniques” by “sushka” forces is at least strange. The attempt, like in World War II, to attack a rocket destroyer of the Orly Burk class with free-fall bombs and cannons is an amazing idea. In a combat situation, a single plane was shot down immediately; in principle, it cannot be any serious threat. And the stories about the fact that the electronic systems of “Donald Cook” were allegedly suppressed by the Russian EW (specifically, the Khibiny), initially did not withstand any criticism. “Khibiny” were created exclusively for Su-34 and are incompatible with Su-24 avionics. The jamming does not “dampen” the radar and does not make the plane invisible, but rather the opposite - it demonstrates its presence.

Overcome "Donald Cook" "drying" engaged in reconnaissance, not imitation of impact. They apparently received such combat missions, and this is a completely different story. On the one hand, it seems to take them away from the provisions of international agreements to prevent the imitation of an attack, but it “sums up” another article: “performing aerobatic figures on ships”, which is no better and does not eliminate responsibility.

In former times, the recklessness of naval intelligence officers was partly due to the imperfection of equipment. Such a reconnaissance at one of the aviation forums was very vividly described by the former military pilot of the Baltic Fleet, who flew just to Su-24, Igor Larkov: “Colonel Yegoshin, the intelligence chief (gave the order) ... You are a scout, you bring me a photo of their newest weapon what are you scout After such instructions and the words “I believe in you”, you will begin to fly in reverse with the reverse ... So it was tricky if Colonel Yegoshin ordered a new air defense system to be stolen from them. And they did it! ”In Soviet times, filming was generally made by almost two-handed cameras by the pilots themselves, and this technique required an approximation of the minimum distance, because the authorities demanded close-ups, rather than the blurred outlines of something unidentified. But if there came a note of protest about a “dangerous approach”, then the real distance of the image was calculated from the photograph, and the pilot was ruthlessly reprimanded and even removed from office.

But the presence of modern reconnaissance technology does not require anything like this from pilots today. That is, in fact, all such overflights by Russian aircraft of NATO ships are reduced to recklessness, bravado and emotional overheating, created by misunderstood ultrapatriotism. The pilots themselves do not understand where the verge of "manifestation of aggression" is, and in our circumstances it is difficult to blame them. And if we trace the history of such tragic sea episodes from the Soviet time, then they were all mixed up on something similar. And when this nervous atmosphere is accelerated by the command, or simply by emotions, or by ultimatum demands for results at any cost, it only gets worse.

A very characteristic story happened in May 1968. A large group of American ships headed by the Essex aircraft carrier entered the exercise. By tradition, all movements of large aircraft carriers were to be monitored by Northern Fleet aircraft. But the Essex group was in the Norwegian Sea, that is, far from the usual tracking areas. The destroyer “Steregushchy” went out to meet the American carrier group, which was to be guided by the aircraft of the Northern Fleet. But on May 25 they lost the aircraft carrier group, that is, they did not fulfill the assigned combat mission, which threatened trouble. The commander of the fleet aviation demanded an urgent search for an aircraft carrier.

Far from everyone could have organized the search, since air refueling was required (the Norwegian Sea was not a zone of operations for Soviet aviation at all, but the command required finding an aircraft carrier even outside the zone of responsibility), and at the end of the 60's, it was the piece crews that knew how. The first of them returned with nothing, and the squadron commander, Lieutenant Colonel of Naval Aviation Alexander Pliev, who was on vacation at that moment, did not manage to leave Severomorsk, returned to the task.

Alexander Z. Pliev, a native of the village of Vakhtana in South Ossetia, was famous for risky maneuvers. First of all, flying at ultra-low altitudes, which was justified by the departure from enemy radar. According to eyewitnesses, on returning to the base, white streaks from salt water were often visible on his plane. In those days, the radar was thin, and the tactic of ultra-small flights was not worked out. So, Pliev's experiments were “innovation” and were secretly encouraged by the naval aviation command, although they violated all instructions.

Pliev’s crew (and the second Tu-16, commanded by Popov) quickly discovered the Essex. According to the vice-admiral, and then the commander of the destroyer “Steregushchy” Dymov, he received the coordinates of the aircraft carrier group after a few hours and went towards a rapprochement. After that, nothing more was required of Pliev's “two”. He was supposed to turn around and go to the base, but suddenly he gave the order to Popov’s slave crew to rise to a great height — and he himself began approaching the Essex at ultra-low altitude. Lieutenant Colonel Pliev decided to make his discovery of the American aircraft carrier group demonstrative, although no such task was assigned to him.

A huge 35-meter bomber sweeps over the deck of an aircraft carrier at a speed of 500 km / h at an altitude of about 15 meters (Americans record it on videotape). Further, according to the American version, when leaving the Tu-16 maneuver, it touches the water with a wing and falls into the sea. Pliev's crew — seven people — is killed on the spot. Later, a version appeared that the bomber could have been shot down by the air defense of one of the Essex escort ships, which were either reinsured or lost their nerves. But the then commander of this regiment of reconnaissance aviation of the Northern Fleet Dudarenko and his fellow soldiers testified: “A. Z. Pliev was undoubtedly a good, even a very good pilot. But, unfortunately, prone to recklessness ... Flying at extremely low altitudes is common for scouts. But Pliev had his own “handwriting” - unnecessarily long flights at extremely low altitudes, which required a lot of pressure from the pilot. ” “The most pernicious is that when the course changed, the height did not change, although it was necessary to gain some height when turning the plane so that when it tilts, it does not catch the water with the wing. Sooner or later, the slightest mistake could lead to death. And she led. " The wreckage of the Tu-16 lie at inaccessible depth, and it will not be possible to definitively establish the truth.

The Americans behaved very gentlemanly. The bodies of the pilots were raised from the water and with full honors handed over to the Soviet side. The destroyer "Conscious" got on board the aircraft carrier "Essex" - a unique case in the history of confrontation between the Soviet and American military fleets. Four American fighter jets flew over the "Conscious", and was given a salute. Lieutenant Colonel Pliev was first buried in Severomorsk, but then, at the request of his relatives, he was reburied in the Zguder cemetery near Tskhinval.

This case is far from being a single one, it is simply extremely indicative. In 1964 and 1980, two Tu-16 disappeared in the Sea of ​​Japan immediately after they discovered the American aircraft carrier and the Japanese squadron. In 1973, another Tu-16 was damaged by an F-4 fighter jet that took off from the John F. Kennedy aircraft carrier. Only by luck, the Soviet aircraft did not crash and returned to the base.

If the Supreme Commander now really had to harshly stop such maneuvers of the Russian Air Force, then this does not mean at all some kind of “retreat” or notorious Internet “putinsley”. Normal common sense has not been canceled. Pilots strive to do better - or how they understand this “better”. There are really more questions for fathers-commanders, who, by definition, must understand not only tactical schemes, but also the whole range of problems, including international law and the strategic environment. It is not without reason that naval officers, and especially naval aviation officers, were always considered to be multi-skilled specialists with a lot of humanitarian knowledge that went beyond the traditionally narrow military education. And without fail, this understanding of the international situation should prevail over the emotional impulses inherent in Internet communities rather than people on the first line of confrontation.

A new cold war has come to a dangerous point. The supreme commander just demands to stop. It is possible that a new negotiation on the concretization of agreements on the avoidance of incidents at sea could be a way out of the deadlock in international maritime law. And the process of these negotiations itself could serve as a basis for the resumption of interaction between the Russian Federation and the United States, if only on the issue of the law of the sea.
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  1. +35
    6 November 2016 06: 07
    I see ... Americans can now be greyhound, and our leadership will express concern ...
    1. +3
      6 November 2016 08: 03
      Recall, presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov not CONFIRMED and DISCLAIMER evidence that the Russian leader allegedly "besieged" the participant in the meeting for "confrontational" words on the incident in the Black Sea, RIA Novosti reports.

      He is already a borzoi, but to no avail.
      1. +13
        6 November 2016 08: 43
        Nesterovs, Chkalovs, etc. In Russia we have been, are and will be! ..... It’s in our genes that we have risk and dare
    2. +17
      6 November 2016 08: 59
      I see you are very greyhound, especially on the Internet. The sofa has not yet broken underneath, gyneral?))
      1. +8
        6 November 2016 09: 08
        Quote: Rock_n_Roll
        I see you are very greyhound, especially on the Internet. The sofa has not yet broken underneath, gyneral?))

        The sofa has long been broken ... True! I can’t buy a new one ..)))
        And, what do you dislike in my comment, dear?
        1. +16
          6 November 2016 10: 17
          And, what do you dislike in my comment, dear?


          And he does not like fast driving fellow
          1. +7
            6 November 2016 10: 25
            Quote: Alexanast
            And, what do you dislike in my comment, dear?


            And he does not like fast driving fellow

            Not ours ! laughing
            1. +13
              6 November 2016 10: 26
              Of course not ours, he's rock and roll
              1. +6
                6 November 2016 10: 47
                Quote: Alexanast
                Of course not ours, he's rock and roll

                Actually, I love rock and roll ... In my youth I charged to the fullest! But he loved his homeland!
                And Break Dance was dancing! This, too, was a rage at that time and on the verge (I was a Komsomol member))))
                I was a member of the Komsomol committee and I was asked in full .... I always replied that real Komsomol members should be ahead in everything .. But the humpback and EBN, literally understood that! I'm joking of course, nostalgia rushing men ...
                1. +8
                  6 November 2016 12: 22
                  Old fart
                  Actually, I love rock and roll ... In my youth I charged to the fullest! But he loved his homeland!
                  And Break Dance was dancing! This, too, was a rage at that time and on the verge (I was a Komsomol member))))
                  -That is why I respect you -so this is because you always carry a blizzard with a serious face ...
                  Either rock and roll and "But I loved my Motherland!" Are the 60s, or Break Dance and "I was a Komsomol member" are the 80s. The first contradicts the second and vice versa ...
                  Here, or 40 years old in the 80s and what kind of Komsomol question was it then? Or rock and roll in the 80s, which long ago became a BALLY dance and certainly no one had a question about his love for his Motherland dancing ...
                  Who are you, STARPER?

                  ps "When you say, Ivan Vasilievich, the impression is that you are delusional." ©
                  1. +5
                    6 November 2016 12: 31
                    Quote: your1970
                    Who are you, STARPER?

                    ps "When you say, Ivan Vasilievich, the impression is that you are delusional." ©

                    I am who I am ... I love Russia!
                    Sometimes I write nonsense, and yet ..... Excuse me guys!

                    That's probably something about me!
                  2. AUL
                    +7
                    6 November 2016 15: 44
                    Who are you, STARPER?
                    Well, how, then, take a look at the profile picture - of course, an old fart! True, he comments on his smallness as scholarship, and is a bit confused in facts - but this can be explained by senility and falling into childhood.
                  3. +2
                    6 November 2016 18: 30
                    Quote: your1970
                    Either rock and roll and "But I loved my Motherland!" Are the 60s, or Break Dance and "I was a Komsomol member" are the 80s. The first contradicts the second and vice versa ...


                    it’s good that Starper didn’t write what Bach likes.
                    otherwise you would have caught him too. you say that, and understand the concerts of Bach went and at the same time in Komsomol had fun!?!?
                  4. +13
                    6 November 2016 19: 09
                    Why
                    Either rock and roll and "But I loved my Motherland!" Are the 60s, or Break Dance and "I was a Komsomol member" are the 80s. The first contradicts the second and vice versa ...


                    Isn't it possible to simultaneously love rock and roll and dance "break" and where is the contradiction. Starper really said that he LIVED at rock and roll and, AT THE SAME TIME, danced "break". Incidentally, I loved the same rock and roll, the same was a member of the Komsomol, "break", though I did not dance, although by this time, when he began to appear in our UNION, I was 13-16 years old. Therefore, I perfectly understand what Starper is talking about and do not observe contradictions.
                    1. +3
                      6 November 2016 22: 11
                      the emphasis was made on a very clear "rock and roll and" But I loved my homeland! "" - in the 80s dead (alas!) rock and roll was for a long time already massively not interesting to anyone (including organs) ...

                      ps I also love my homeland, but squealing about it at every step is somehow not comme il faut .... As well as pretending to be ancient and all knowing - here half of VO are pensioners military (and not only), however, as well as the opposite situation - for example, I have 19 years left until retirement (with 30 years of experience) .....
    3. +4
      6 November 2016 12: 57
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      I see ... Americans can now be greyhound, and our leadership will express concern ...

      Peskov said nothing new, and Putin, too, I think not: if he had not been satisfied with the overflights of the amers, they would simply NOT have been right after the first such incident.

      Representatives of the Moscow Region did not find any violations and I am personally satisfied with their explanations, because they are responsible for this, and not the author of the article.
  2. +31
    6 November 2016 06: 37
    During the meeting, according to the agency, some of its participants stated that the Americans “deserved it.” In response to this, Putin asked: “Are you crazy?”


    But I don’t agree with the GDP ... Americans are crazy, putting the world on the brink of war.
    Is it possible that the GDP does not know this, and if you do not constantly keep the Americans in suspense, they will become impudent and further proportional to our peacefulness, which may ultimately end in an attack on our country ... more than once.

    A service person cannot answer GDP because he has no right to discuss orders and superiors ... but I will say directly to a civilian ... not everything that makes GDP to my liking and I strongly disagree with some of his affairs.
    1. +13
      6 November 2016 06: 59
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I’ll say straightforwardly a civilian ... not everything that makes GDP to my liking and I strongly disagree with some of its affairs.

      then you are Lyokha, "all the scum, a dissident and this is ... belolentochnik .. that's it! wassat
      1. +19
        6 November 2016 07: 17
        then you are Lyokha, "all the scum, a dissident and this is ... belolentochnik .. that's it!

        Andrei Yurievich, this audience is worse for me than the US State Department and in case of occupation of even a small piece of our territory by the enemy, they will go to hang, rob and shoot our citizens as it was in the Second World War ...



        such I without any hesitation raise a pitchfork.



        But this is not the main thing now ... I cannot agree that our society is being customized to the interests of the bourgeois oligarchs ... after all, the people voted for a better future and not for the interests of large oligarchs and companies.
        The elections were held and ops officials and the State Duma sharply had a craving for the introduction of new taxes and exactions from the people ... and I see that the GDP does not oppose this, can I agree with this?
        1. +6
          6 November 2016 07: 21
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          The elections were held and op ...
          election-election ... candidates ... cyborgs ...
          1. 0
            6 November 2016 07: 55
            You have left the answer to the question!
            and I see that the GDP does not counteract this; can we agree with this?

            I wonder how you will answer!
        2. +2
          6 November 2016 09: 25
          And if we assume that the appointment of "oligarchs" is a way to protect national wealth from being absorbed by transnational corporations? Maybe this is an attempt to carry out its own maaaaalenka "globalization" in Russia? Well, like - Lenin is a world revolution, and Stalin is socialism in a single country. Now Russia is again "taken" And? As a version, is it possible for consideration?
        3. +2
          6 November 2016 12: 30
          the second one on the right — a large cartridge pouch under cartridges on a belt — the most firing was visible (and possibly the oldest) —the rest were cleanly attached to the rifle and bushes and that’s all .... maybe shot more than anyone.
          1. AUL
            +3
            6 November 2016 16: 13
            Same lech
            You know, I have many complaints against Putin on issues of both foreign and, moreover, domestic policy. But in this case, I completely agree with him. Now the situation is so tense that any minor incident can lead to unpredictable consequences. We are standing opposite each other with fingers on the hooks, and God forbid, so that someone's nerves quiver. Therefore, it is necessary to exclude any possibility of any accidents, their price is too high. Do not compare with the situation with the moron that flew under the bridge to show his coolness. Correctly, the guarantor gave the lyule to the generals.
            PS On remarks like "What, they can, but we can not?" I'm not going to answer - they have their own bosses, I hope that there are not only fools there.
            1. 0
              6 November 2016 22: 07
              Quote: your1970
              the second one on the right — a large cartridge pouch under cartridges on a belt — the most shooting one was visible (and possibly the oldest)
              He doesn’t have cartridges in his pouch there, but a rope and soap for this dashing team.
    2. +4
      7 November 2016 03: 16
      You surprise me today. I did not expect from you. At the meeting, Putin besieged a particularly presumptuous boob, complaining that the bourgeois were scared, but not shot down. There were no orders to hand over the borders. It’s one thing to troll NATO planes, and it’s quite another thing to flood an airplane in neutral airspace. For a long time backside in the trench did not freeze or nuclear mushrooms over Russia warm the soul? Or is there reason to believe that the entire NATO bloc will be put out in one gate? We need to build a country. Army, economy, culture. It’s too early to wave a saber. So far, only by urgent need and as part of the necessary self-defense.
    3. 0
      9 November 2016 22: 09
      Discuss or not discuss but write a report can and even must. Or with your suggestions or explanations of your motives. If they are justified and not just wanted or not wanted.
  3. +8
    6 November 2016 06: 40
    ... and they spit on all the "international" rules fly over our military facilities, and we just wipe the snot and will continue to wash with them ...
  4. +15
    6 November 2016 06: 46
    But I agree in the GDP. air gopiness will end badly sooner or later. Just because someone spits on the carpet in a room does not mean that I should do the same. And once again, urrya - they explained to the patriots about "Cook".
    1. +16
      6 November 2016 07: 22
      gopnichestvo in the air sooner or later will end badly.


      Of course it’s bad ... remember the time when our flyers were punished before the Second World War for any attempt to oppose the fascist planes ... this impunity for the fascists cost our country then ... doesn’t the GDP really know ... or we must step on the same rake again .
      1. +2
        6 November 2016 07: 58
        It is not Russia that unleashes wars, which is why GDP does not give Americans a reason to cling to any mistake. But they are using it for now. But everything can be repeated as before.
    2. +3
      6 November 2016 16: 09
      Quote: Samy
      And once again, urrya - they explained to the patriots about "Cook".


      Yes, it all comes to these goofies like a giraffe - one or two times is not enough. About such people in the old days they said that they had already risen under their noses, but had not yet sown in their heads .... fool
  5. +11
    6 November 2016 06: 53
    “The closed meetings are held in order to exchange views on the most topical issues in a free mode, so I can neither confirm nor deny this information,” said Peskov. And its non-repudiation looks like a clear signal to the military. According to Bloomberg, Putin called the "high risk" incident when Russian military aircraft flew in close proximity to an American ship in the Black Sea. During the meeting, according to the agency, some of its participants said that the Americans "deserved it." In response, Putin asked: "Are you out of your mind?"

    If the meeting is closed, then where does Bloomberg get such information? It turns out the article is written on the conclusions of Bloomberg ...
    1. +31
      6 November 2016 07: 01
      Quote: Masya Masya
      In response to this, Putin asked: “Are you crazy?”

      if Putin would have asked IT from the economic bloc, from the pension fund, from the ministers of education and health!
      1. +6
        6 November 2016 07: 04
        Do you know what and in real life he asks from whom?
        1. +14
          6 November 2016 07: 07
          What happens in real life can be seen even without "classified information"
        2. +2
          6 November 2016 07: 22
          Quote: Masya Masya
          Do you know what and in real life he asks from whom?

          I wish I could find out ...
          1. +5
            6 November 2016 07: 27
            I wish I could find out ...

            Yes, but no one will tell or show us wink
      2. +6
        6 November 2016 14: 30
        And even better, I would ask Ulyukaev, but what the hell is your Ministry of Economic Development, which for all the time of its existence only made predictions that it would be even worse and more than one action program. And this "poet" sits in his place and does not sway.
  6. +8
    6 November 2016 07: 20
    The author gave illustrative examples of how the implementation of the decision that the pilot made on his own could end. One thing fly by order, and another really excessive bravado. On the other hand, the habit of Americans to roam our borders and stick their electronic noses at our detection tools cannot be ignored. So you have to think whether the president was right or wrong when he said this (if he really said that).
    1. +1
      6 November 2016 15: 20
      Quote: rotmistr60
      . One thing fly by order, and another really excessive bravado.

      I would also suggest not to confuse recklessness and demonstration of opportunities. If after each flight, from the side of the mattresses, howling "I did not subscribe to this", two dozen snouts will run away, then I consider this risk justified.
      1. 0
        7 November 2016 01: 46
        Quote: novobranets
        If two dozen snouts run away, then I consider this risk justified.

        Will not, do not even hope.
        1. 0
          8 November 2016 10: 20
          they still believe in the story about those who quit "Donald Cook"
  7. +3
    6 November 2016 07: 51
    Firstly, the news and the article for it are sucked out of one's finger. The information would never have come out of a closed meeting.
    1. AUL
      0
      6 November 2016 16: 30
      Are you so sure about this? lol
    2. +3
      6 November 2016 18: 11
      Quote: Barkhan
      .Never information would come out of a private meeting.

      Ever heard the expression "controlled information leak"?
  8. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  9. +3
    6 November 2016 09: 28
    And who heard the President's words personally and is ready to confirm it? Do not drive a wave and "do not make mine nerves" dear! And "Maritime Law" is obligatory for everyone! I would like to remind the not unknown Schweik and his answer to the question - "... is it possible to shoot here? - You can only quietly!"
  10. +23
    6 November 2016 09: 56
    recourse From the article, I concluded: a Russian can cut off a leg or an arm, it doesn't matter, but an American "father's bream" is no, no, otherwise the third world. We must live with the thought "if only our military does not provoke someone." Well, what if provoked then? They would have shot down our planes, and ... then what?
    So I live in Donetsk, here just now 2 packages of "grad" flew into the private sector, it is 80 missiles, and .... in general, no one cares.
    They shot down BOING, and .... I somehow missed that moment about hysteria from Europeans or Americans about World War 3.
    RUSSIANS, just think, representatives of the Armed Forces of Ukraine tried to get into the bunker with nuclear waste at point "U", "about 12 tons" is stored in that bunker, and there is a small small factory near the bunker Yes with explosive weapons, and that's all on the outskirts of Donetsk, and if anyone doesn’t know then Donetsk is somehow not very far from the Rostov Region. AND......
    Now we are afraid not to provoke someone.
    But I have to make you happy or upset, but on the front line there are a lot of guys who think something like this: "they are afraid of teeth, do not give in your mouth" feel For some reason, it seems to me that the pilots also think so. Yes
    1. +8
      6 November 2016 11: 46
      I fully agree with you. The policy of appeasing the aggressor leads to war ALWAYS! This is proven by history. Before the bald man came to power, the USSR made it clear that provoking us was dangerous for life, and we were not afraid of war.
    2. +5
      8 November 2016 07: 07
      I agree to all service stations! Our "partners" are not adequate people, and often the observance of laws and agreements is perceived as weakness (by the way, the GDP itself does not stop talking about this), therefore the more accurately we fulfill all international agreements, the more vulnerable we are. Examples? Yes, as much as you want. Crimea - sanctions, the Turks have filled up the DRY - tomatoes, there is no regular army in the Donbass - Russia is the aggressor, we hammer bearded men in Aleppo - war criminals, and you can go on almost endlessly. So, it is simply impossible to negotiate and play by fair rules with a Western viper. They also consider the bombing of Belgrade a military necessity, and half a million Iraqi children, according to Albright, "a justified sacrifice." And I'm just sure that the actions of our military (not only pilots and sailors) should be tough, professional and inevitable. Otherwise ... they just won't put us in anything at all, and another "magician in a blue helicopter" - like Rust - will fly to Red Square, and we will sprinkle ashes on our heads and shout that we are the most law-abiding (provided that most of the world's laws are written by the United States for themselves) and fair. Who will need it?
      I remember that in 87, in Mediterranean, a crowd of planes rose from the Saratoga and began to "run in" us, in the compartments the bulbs burst from the roar of overcoming the sound barrier above the ship. Cap (captain Shevchenko, God grant him health) endured and obeyed all maritime laws for 40 minutes, and then gave the command "Shooting high, rockets on guides" and that's it, the whole fly flock instantly disappeared, as they crowded on Saratoga I don't know, but the screens cleared quickly. True, the cap's tail was screwed up for bringing the firing stations to combat frequencies, but then the Minister of Defense's award and an asterisk for the shoulder strap. So it is necessary to drive them all over Ivanovskaya, but ... professionally, energetically and ... to hell with him according to "Sea Law". And yet, probably adherents of observance (by Russia unilaterally) of all laws think that this way we will avoid war? Here hey.shki! It will be, they will begin, and we will be to blame. Or someone doubts ???
    3. +1
      8 November 2016 10: 23
      where are the NATO planes to frighten when they are afraid to hang out the Russian flag at the Russian embassy in Kiev .... so as not to anger the ukronatsiks!
  11. +8
    6 November 2016 10: 08
    The article is very correct and relevant, with great common sense, but the FSA puts, and for a long time on international law and on treaties with Russia as well. And not everyone has this feeling, caused by the actions of our pilots, called cheers-patriotism, it is rather an emotional outlet for the actions of the American fascists against Russia. If the media misinformation told us how Americans behave in the world in more detail, the degree of hatred for them would have grown significantly. Abydna Panimash.
  12. +3
    6 November 2016 10: 15
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    A service person cannot answer GDP because he has no right to discuss orders and superiors ... but I will say directly to a civilian ... not everything that makes GDP to my liking and I strongly disagree with some of his affairs.

    ------------------------------
    But in the case of "stop imitation attacks" VVP is right. So, in fact, you can play until hot. The article in this context is just about that. By the way, the USSR and the USA, after such incidents, agreed to prohibit aircraft overflights over ships and, of course, no "combat visits".
    1. +1
      6 November 2016 11: 54
      It is not necessary to imitate attacks, but NATO ships and aircraft must be escorted further. They have no right to shoot our planes in peacetime, and if they still shoot, they will untie our hands. If they bring down the plane, then we will sink the ship.
      1. AUL
        +4
        6 November 2016 16: 35
        Yeah, the Turks shot down our plane, so we ... took them away! They still cannot come to their senses!
      2. 0
        8 November 2016 06: 20
        If they bring down the plane, then we will sink the ship.

        And let's hope it ends there? Binary if-then logic can slap the forehead hard with a third option.
        1. 0
          8 November 2016 11: 40
          Quote: Michael m
          If they bring down the plane, then we will sink the ship.

          And let's hope it ends there? Binary if-then logic can slap the forehead hard with a third option.

          Do you propose an investigation and punishment of the perpetrators in 5 years? or forgive as the Turks? A couple of times such peaceful utu-ty and our planes Papuans will begin to bring down. It’s not worth provoking naturally and once again.
  13. +4
    6 November 2016 10: 22
    I liked the subjects. I remember after fixing the rashes from the "Orion" of three dozen buoys, we managed to pick up five or seven pieces. I doubt that anything has changed since then. I think we need an agreement, with consequences. Otherwise, nothing will change.
    Is the “regional committee" ready for the agreement? Then why shake the air?
    1. 0
      9 November 2016 13: 19
      In the regional committee, the first secretary has just changed ...
  14. +4
    6 November 2016 10: 56
    Vladimir Putin refers to incidents between Russian and NATO aircraft and ships, so curious that it requires a separate interpretation.


    What is there to comprehend, Uncle Vova blurted out on emotions without thinking, it is necessary to slow down the coconuts, within reason, of course, if this is not done further, the boundaries will begin to be violated, etc.
    1. +1
      6 November 2016 11: 56
      For breaking the border, you must shoot down immediately! Otherwise, they will finally be cut and attacked.
  15. +4
    6 November 2016 11: 22
    There are many types of war now: hot, cold, informational, hybrid, etc. etc. And she goes now constantly changing her appearance. The actions of our pilots are a psychological war, designed to lower the degree of "exclusivity" and shameless arrogance of our foreign "partners." The pilots and their command did everything right in this situation. By the way, heroism and recklessness or daring. pretty similar concepts
    1. AUL
      +1
      6 November 2016 16: 40
      By the way, heroism and courage or dashing. pretty similar concepts
      Thanks, amused! laughing smile
      1. 0
        6 November 2016 19: 14
        laugh at your health, just don't fall off the couch
  16. +4
    6 November 2016 12: 06
    A new cold war has come to a dangerous point. The supreme commander just asks to stop

    Demands to stop your military? And does the American president demand the same from the Pentagon, or will we again "retreat, concede and surrender" to the last cowards, to our beloved American "partners"? Let them "ride" to the Crimea, Kaliningrad? And the next Rust to Red Square can be launched.
    Maybe the Supreme Commander-in-Chief would better give an order not to "touch" the Americans in the Gulf of Mexico, and not at his own "gate"?
  17. +6
    6 November 2016 12: 09
    Quote: STARPER
    Nesterovs, Chkalovs, etc. In Russia we have been, are and will be! ..... It’s in our genes that we have risk and dare


    Quote: STARPER
    Quote: Rock_n_Roll
    I see you are very greyhound, especially on the Internet. The sofa has not yet broken underneath, gyneral?))

    The sofa has long been broken ... True! I can’t buy a new one ..)))

    And, what do you dislike in my comment, dear?


    Starper are you insane? You probably didn’t even wonder how much it costs to prepare a pilot. This is not taking into account that not everyone can be one for health reasons, and even one must grow to the appropriate age. And you so easily speak out for unnecessary risk, the price of which is life, and in the event of a provoked conflict, not one. You do not want to risk yours? to become, for example, on rails, your back with a moving train and, by ear, jump off at the last moment. But then you can punt, if of course you jump successfully.
  18. +3
    6 November 2016 12: 16
    They showed footage with this ill-fated Tu-16R, taken from Essex: a flight of 50 meters at the height of the flight deck, then a couple of kilometers from a pole from the fall of Tushka. I thought: "Here is D-B !!"
    1. AUL
      +4
      6 November 2016 16: 44
      But, according to Starper, showed a rage, and this, according to zapas98almost heroism!
  19. +2
    6 November 2016 14: 38
    International law of the sea must naturally be respected. But do not give the adversary a descent. Otherwise, this right simply will not apply. In my understanding, this is a right for all participants and in all aspects.
    1. +2
      6 November 2016 14: 59
      Quote: Sarmat149
      But do not give the adversary a descent.

      The enemy's fighters themselves either "intercept" Shoigu's plane over the Baltic, or hang in clusters on the wings of our Tu-95s.
      Everything is mutual here, so the command does not encourage such things, but it never punishes them.
  20. +1
    6 November 2016 14: 42
    I did not understand anything. Putin is "substituted and dumped"?
  21. +3
    6 November 2016 14: 51
    At first, the pilots were praised for their courage and skill, now they have turned on the reverse ... magazine whores, what else can I say?
  22. +1
    6 November 2016 15: 49
    The international convention prescribes not only not to provoke conflicts like these, but also to observe the UN Charter. And if a certain country scored ..y on this charter, then it’s easy to yell about the provocations and unprofessionalism of some pilots
  23. 0
    6 November 2016 15: 49
    Seriously? Maybe the country on the planet is superfluous? laughing laughing laughing laughing
  24. +2
    6 November 2016 17: 38
    And where is the opportunity to put an article minus ??
  25. 0
    6 November 2016 17: 47
    Quote: Platonitch
    ... and they spit on all the "international" rules fly over our military facilities, and we just wipe the snot and will continue to wash with them ...

    Exactly. And they don’t call it - recklessness!
    For this, our own people, like Krutikov and others like him, are reproached ...
    Despite the fact that they are at our borders and not we near their territory.
  26. 0
    6 November 2016 20: 50
    The giraffe finally realized. Big giraffe - he knows better.
    Victory has many "fathers", defeat has one "orphan". The main question is: who is the "orphan"?
  27. +3
    6 November 2016 22: 33
    If the Americans are forgiven for their "small pranks" (for example, the activation of their fleet near our main naval base in the Black Sea), then they will be registered there, plus they will deploy a full-fledged permanent Black Sea grouping. to discuss anything (if only "Blumberg" liked it). And in the case of real cases --- an example of "Selfless" 88th year to help our strategists.
    After the strike, “Bezavetsionny” and “Yorktown” turned in opposite directions from each other, but both commanders ordered the ships to return to their previous course, and the “Bezavezhetny” also increased speed, which led to another bulk.
    During the second strike, the high bearer of the Bezavezhetny climbed onto the Yorktown helicopter deck (while the stern of the Soviet ship was at the cut of the water level) and began to crawl towards the cruising utah with a roll to the left side. At the same time, the watchman demolished the cruiser’s guard rail, broke his commander’s boat and the Harpoon anti-ship missile launcher. As a result of the collision at Yorktown, a fire broke out.
    "Selfless" departed from Yorktown, but warned that he would repeat the bulk if American ships did not leave territorial waters. However, instead, the destroyer Caron went on a rapprochement with the Selfless, and both American ships, at converging courses, began to squeeze the watchman between them. In response, Mikheev ordered the RBU-6000 jet bombs to be loaded with depth charges and deployed along the beam to the starboard and port side, respectively, against the cruiser and destroyer.
    American ships stopped rapprochement, but on the Yorktown began to prepare for take-off deck helicopters. Selivanov ordered Mikheev to hand over to the Americans: “Helicopters, if they fly into the air, will be shot down as if they violated the airspace of the Soviet Union,” and instructed to send fleet aircraft to the incident area. After the appearance of two Mi-24 over American ships, the Yorktown helicopters rolled back into the hangar. American ships changed course and went into neutral waters, where they drifted. A few hours later, both ships headed towards the Bosphorus, no longer entering the Soviet territorial waters.
    After the incident, Yorktown was under repair for several months. The cruiser commander was removed from his post for passive actions and the initiative given to the Soviet ship, which caused moral damage to the prestige of the American Navy.
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%BE%
    D0%BB%D0%BA%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D
    0%B5_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B5%D
    0%B9_%D0%92%D0%9C%D0%A1_%D0%A1%D0%A8%D0%90_%D0%B8
    _%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0_%D0%B2_%D0%A7%D1%91%D1%
    80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5_(19
    88)
  28. 0
    6 November 2016 23: 45
    Quote: Andrey Yurievich
    Quote: Masya Masya
    In response to this, Putin asked: “Are you crazy?”

    if Putin would have asked IT from the economic bloc, from the pension fund, from the ministers of education and health!

    It should not be mistaken for the red words of all under one crest ...!
    And the Minister of Health and Education, in my opinion, is quite consistent with their posts. What I can not say about finance, economics and the State Center CentroBank.
  29. +2
    7 November 2016 05: 45
    Good day to all!
    Honestly, I do not understand the intensity of comments. Actions took place outside the territorial waters of Russia, and the agreements that are unambiguously established and signed by us must be observed. Or do you propose starting World 3 if the plane is shot down?
  30. +2
    7 November 2016 07: 00
    A huge 35-meter bomber sweeps over the deck of an aircraft carrier at a speed of 500 km / h at an altitude of about 15 meters (Americans record this on videotape). Further, according to the American version, when leaving the Tu-16 maneuver, it touches the water with its wing and falls into the sea.

    I hardly remember in what program on Russian TV this video was. The carcass was above the water at an altitude of about 20-25 m. In parallel with the ship's course in meters 60-80. There was a slurred koment of the announcer, but the moment of the crash was not shown.
    Once upon a time in an old country house I saw a carcass literally hovering over a long large ravine at an altitude of 40-50 meters above the plain (apparently caught an upward flow?), Then it gave off gas. Struck by power and handling. I was about 300-400 meters away. hi
    As for the flights over American ships, I would also switch to the sound of sound in general. There is nothing for the Macington macaques to spin around our borders and zones of our interests. angry
  31. +1
    7 November 2016 17: 59
    Then there was some respect for the enemy, and now they have some gopnik at the helm, and even in the army.
  32. 0
    8 November 2016 09: 20
    It makes no sense to argue about the need for such maneuvers whether the order was made or the flyer himself decided to shorten the Americans a little, but the fact that the attack was carried out from a distance of many kilometers was true, and it did not make sense to imitate the attack in visual contact. Could shoot and what? But the answer must be otherwise do not understand! There were ship rams in the history and nothing, partners became more disciplined. Following patterns is also fraught.
  33. 0
    8 November 2016 09: 50
    Amers should not be allowed to descend, I agree that serious provocations are not needed, but they need to be kept on a tight leash ... they have already “beguiled the banks”, they are used to feeling themselves masters.
  34. 0
    8 November 2016 12: 46
    Of course, provocation is a dangerous business, but as they say ... to be afraid of teeth ... (cut by censorship). The only thing that is alarming is all these “sudden” losses of aircraft ... A sudden freelance launch of the Granit is also possible.

    With palenicyma, you need to act like a lady: they’ll better forgive you then than they don’t notice now.
  35. +1
    8 November 2016 19: 47
    In the article ".. people, horses .."
    The author "chews snot", assuming what the GDP said to the military at a CLOSED meeting, based on the OPEN statements of the press secretary. Ungrateful work, what is already here.
    I see it this way: even in the first case, the flight was precisely coordinated with the General Staff. And the second fly-over of the Cook certainly shows that VVP was aware of the first and clearly did not prohibit the second.
    The author is just a minor d..beel if he thinks that the press secretary of VVP will blurt out loudly: "Yes, the overflights were agreed with the president, the pilots were nominated for government awards." The author's brains (if he wrote the article himself) are like those of a chicken.
  36. +2
    8 November 2016 19: 58
    And, well, yes, an article from the site "Vzglyad.ru". Now it is clear where such a "horizon", "comprehensive analysis" and "historical examples" come from. On this site, "well-known" strategists and tactics hang around .. From the applicants who did not enter. Under the age of 25, the word "oath" is knowledgeable only by the dictionary. Particularly "beautiful" are the passages of such young children from the humanities in articles concerning technology.

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