The collapse of oil socialism

97
In Venezuela, the opposition of the parliament against President N.Maduro is intensifying. Opponents are irreconcilable. The opposition holds mass protests on the streets of cities. Already have the first victims. Some experts believe that in the future we can expect clashes involving not only the police, but also the army. They say about the likely civil war.

The collapse of oil socialism




The Venezuelan Parliament pulls time: “is exploring the possibility of” the removal of President Nicolas Maduro from power on the initiative of the opposition. The initiative is connected with the decision of the National Electoral Council, which had previously postponed for an indefinite period the referendum on the early termination of the powers of Maduro. This referendum was scheduled for October 26-28. According to the opposition-minded deputies, the decision to “postpone” is a violation of the constitution.

Oppositionists believe that a referendum should be held before January 10. The fact is that a later date even in case of victory will lead to the transfer of power to the vice-president, supporter of Maduro. This person will rule Venezuela for the two remaining years (Maduro’s term expires in 2019). Thus, the parliamentary opposition will not be able to hold their man in power, and the situation will not change in essence.

Maduro himself did not find anything better than to visit ... the Pope. He enlisted the support of the Vatican in mediating negotiations with the opposition. Negotiations are scheduled for October 30.

The last clashes of protesters with the police led to the victims. One of the law enforcement officers was killed. The press reports a large number of injured - from 20 to 120 people, according to various sources. Probably, the number of victims will grow, because the protests do not subside. On October 27, more than eighty detainees were reported to the police.

Protesters demand a referendum on the resignation of Nicholas Maduro and impeachment. Any objection from the authorities only adds fuel to the fire.

"BBC" reports hundreds of thousands of residents who have taken to the streets of cities in the country to express disagreement with the policies of the Maduro government. The protests resulted in clashes with the police: in particular, it happened in San Cristobal and Maracaibo. Venezuelan human rights activist Alfredo Romero indicates that over twenty people were injured in Merida alone.

President Maduro did not say anything definite, only appealed to the pro-government rally participants in Caracas: "Let the people decide." However, what and how can the people decide if the Venezuelan Central Election Commission halted the collection of signatures for the referendum? The reason for the decision of the Central Election Commission was that the courts of several states annulled the results of the campaign, as if suspecting a fake signatures.

As a result, thousands of people came out in protest on the streets of Caracas. In addition, opposition leaders announced the start of a nationwide strike (launched on October 28). If at its end the authorities continue to block the collection of signatures, the opposition will march to the presidential palace.

Despite the fact that the parliament adopted a resolution on the trial of Maduro by a majority of votes, the government and the supreme court, reminds the BBC, are controlled by supporters of Maduro.

The protests are taking place against the background of a catastrophic situation in oil-producing Venezuela: inflation is already estimated at hundreds of percent, water and electricity are constantly turned off, and there is a shortage of food and medicine.

According to the latest IMF forecast, we will add that inflation may reach 700% in the near future. The cause of the financial and economic crisis lies on the surface: the price of hydrocarbons has long been at a low level compared to, for example, the record level observed several years ago. Revenues of the Venezuelan oil companies collapsed, and after all the state budget was kept on their money. Of course, Maduro's popularity has plummeted.

Oil socialism has been staggering in the country for years. However, the government still relies on oil as a way to solve old problems. There is a shortage of food and drugs in the country, and the authorities still state the need to reduce global oil production. This could be done jointly by non-OPEC countries. It is about reducing production at 400-500 thousand barrels per day, said the Minister of Oil of Venezuela, Eulogio del Pino.

“OPEC countries are ready to cut production by 700 000 barrels per day - to 32,5-33 million barrels per day. Non-OPEC countries produce about 16 million barrels per day. We offer countries outside of OPEC to coordinate and reduce production by about 400000-500000 barrels per day, i.e., about half of the OPEC reduction, ”he was quoted as saying "Vedomosti". He added that 16 mln. Tons of production comes from Russia, Oman, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Colombia, Mexico, Bahrain and Egypt.

Meanwhile, a strike continues in the country, and protests are spreading. The media predicts a quick civil war in Venezuela. It is also noted that Maduro deliberately pulls the time until January, so that the opposition could not come to power through a referendum and impeachment.

“Maduro is more afraid of this referendum because he is almost certain that the majority of voters will not support him,” BFM Emil Dabagyan, Leading Researcher, Institute of Latin America. - He is making some effort. The opposition, of course, does not reject the dialogue. But she believes that dialogue should not replace the procedure for the removal of the president. ”

As for the supporters of Maduro and his government, they look, according to a local resident, Maria from Santa Helena, as follows:

“Workers, builders, displaced people, people who simply occupied the territory, that is, they live on each other. They, of course, are “for” the government, because the government gives them free electricity, gas, water, they bring food in bags. They have, yes, support. And this is a very uneducated part of the population, which does not know how to analyze, they do not understand the situation as a whole. And what about them? Today I have eaten, and thank God. ”


“The situation in Venezuela is developing in an unpredictable way, since the authorities of the country have not left the opposition to the mechanisms for removing the president from power,” said Gazeta.ru Region Leading Specialist Juan Carlos Hidalgo from the Cato Institute in Washington. “All that remains for oppositionists is the right to resist, which is provided for by the country's constitution,” he believes.

There are fears, the publication points out, that the authorities will use their usual methods: they will harshly suppress protests on the streets, labeling the oppositionists as “hirelings of American capitalism” And in this case, a civil conflict may begin.

What do Russian politicians think about the situation in socialist Venezuela?

The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs "is looking at the situation with concern," suggesting that "the leadership of Venezuela and the healthy forces of Venezuelan society will find a way out of the current crisis period without detriment to the stability of the country and within the framework of the constitutional field." Moscow believes that the government of Maduro holds a constructive position.

Deputy Foreign Minister of the Russian Federation Sergey Ryabkov declares the inadmissibility of Western intervention in the affairs of Venezuela. “We support the leadership and the people of Venezuela and stand in solidarity with them at this difficult time,” Ryabkov quotes Utro.ru.

“In the conditions of a political crisis, Nicolas Maduro will rely on the army and the police. In any case, the army elite supports him. Thus, the Minister of Defense Padrino Lopez, on behalf of the Armed Forces of Venezuela, publicly expressed support for the lawfully elected president and commander in chief, ”said TASS specialist in Latin America, head of the department of international relations and foreign policy of Russia MGIMO Boris Martynov.

Interestingly, the protest electorate of Venezuela today includes those segments of the population that have always supported Chavez, and at first, Maduro. “Those poor segments of the population who received benefits and free housing from the state gradually made their way into the middle class. But when the country's budget fell to the bottom, and the free movement dried up, these people went into opposition to the ruling regime, ”Martynov said.

There is one more opinion. “The generals of the Armed Forces of Venezuela are former majors and captains, who were promoted by President Hugo Chavez to top positions. He was an idol to them, the military swore allegiance to Chavez and Bolivarian Venezuela. The big question is how loyal they will be to Maduro. He is not entirely his for them, not military, he does not have the former authority of Chavez, ”said Alexei Makarkin, deputy general director of the Center for Political Technologies.

Against the background of the economic crisis, the deficit and the highest inflation, we note in conclusion that a social explosion is really possible in Venezuela. The impoverished budget, the bankruptcy of many enterprises, unemployment, the declared strike, regular mass protests that have already led to the first victims, speak not only of the low popularity of Maduro and his government, but also of the urgent changes in the country that cannot keep on one oil.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
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    1. +8
      31 October 2016 06: 06
      Monduro, unlike his predecessor, is weak, and charisma is not the same ... I think that there the army will decide the outcome of the matter, on whose side it will win.
      1. +13
        31 October 2016 10: 57
        You have to understand that people don't take to the streets because of a good life. If the country lacks food, medicine, and inflation reaches 700%, then one should not look for the imaginary "intrigues of the imperialists", but expel this worthless government to hell, which, apart from slogans, gives the people nothing. People need to eat, to get their children back on their feet, and only last but not least is "revolutionary rhetoric." Vaughn Allende was also engaged in slogan-making, and brought Chile to the handle. Yes, Pinochet was a dictator, but it was he who made Chile a fairly prosperous and advanced country.
        1. +1
          31 October 2016 12: 58
          Quote: xetai9977
          not to look for the imaginary "intrigues of the imperialists", but to expel this worthless government to hell, which, apart from slogans, gives the people nothing.

          Some gullible people thought in Ukraine just like that. And what happened in the end? War of lawlessness and poverty.
          In fact, it would be better if this happened in Azerbaijan, and the Russian markets would get rid of traders from this country and oil prices would skyrocket.
          1. +1
            2 November 2016 21: 28
            and oil prices would skyrocket



            In 1999, the economy of the Russian Federation had a growth of about 7%, investments flowed into the country, mechanical engineering was developed and the country really began to "get up from its knees" and all this at $ 10 for oil. Now oil prices are still record high, even if we calculate inflation, but the economy and investment know where. You "quilted jacket" see the article inattentively read, or did not understand it, did not understand what Venezuela is today and why it is so. And one should think about it, especially after the statements on the situation in Venezuela by the Russian authorities.

            P.S. Respect of the editors and Chuvakin for a serious and informative article.
      2. +4
        31 October 2016 10: 59
        Quote: dmi.pris
        .I think that there the outcome of the matter will be decided by the army, on whose side it will become, that one will win.


        In addition, for the army of Maduro, in contrast to the Chavez’s paratrooper, it’s just civilian, which cannot restore order in the country ....
        Of course, any analogy suffers, but events in Chile developed according to a similar scenario ... - As the country's economic difficulties grew, the left ideology and President Allende lost popularity even among its former adherents and they moved to the opposition camp. After all, people want to live and feed their children today, and not in the bright future ...
        And the refrigerator began to win the TV and what happened next is well known - as in Chile, it seems that the fate of Venezuela will be decided by the military .. And it is not a fact that even those who owe Maduro a career will take his side ...
        Football and rebellion are said to be two national sports in Latin
        1. +1
          31 October 2016 13: 05
          Quote: ranger
          but at one time, events in Chile developed according to a similar scenario ... As the economic difficulties in the country grew, the left-wing ideology and President Allende lost popularity.

          And the Nazis came to power only officially killed more than thirty thousand of their opponents.
          Do you also propose in Venezuela to introduce a fascist dictatorship under the control of the United States as in Chile?
      3. 0
        31 October 2016 12: 13
        And then what?
        1. +4
          31 October 2016 12: 19
          Quote: iouris
          And then what?

          further - or Madrid will leave kindly or begin - the dictatorship of Madrid with the prospect of a civil war
          Although Elena Gromov oh, any dictatorship is like-if it is socialist, yes, if at the same time people are starving, and the demonstrators are shot
    2. +8
      31 October 2016 06: 21
      Well, they shake it off and that immediately oil prices will rise.
      1. +6
        31 October 2016 06: 25
        This is not about the Venezuelans and their fate, or oil prices. The defenders need to show that they are still masters in Latin America, or at least parts of it.
      2. +1
        31 October 2016 12: 03
        Quote: Danil Larionov
        Well, they shake it off and that immediately oil prices will rise.

        so arguing, why not make him the eternal president?
        1. 0
          31 October 2016 12: 20
          Quote: atalef
          so arguing, why not make him the eternal president?

          Well, reasoning for every fault, you need to shoot by hanging. Are you not a Bulgarian Stalinist for an hour?
          1. +4
            31 October 2016 13: 23
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Are you not a Bulgarian Stalinist for an hour?

            He is actually an Israeli Jew, he just moved to another computer in the room where their "paid" division of propagandists is located and will now temporarily work under the Bulgarian IP lol
          2. +2
            31 October 2016 13: 24
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Quote: atalef
            so arguing, why not make him the eternal president?

            Well, reasoning for every fault, you need to shoot by hanging. Are you not a Bulgarian Stalinist for an hour?

            hrenase offense laughing
            brought the country to hunger riots
            the president is an elected position, why is he so afraid to check the confidence of voters?
            By the way, Bulgaria has good weather good
            1. 0
              31 October 2016 13: 45
              Quote: atalef
              hrenase offense

              Not about that of course it was. Nevertheless, is he to blame for this whole situation and is he alone? And enough to shoot him? And how many in such circumstances were judged and punished in the other most democratic states?
              Quote: atalef
              the president is an elected position, why is he so afraid to check the confidence of voters?

              Neither you nor I know all the circumstances.
              Quote: atalef
              By the way, Bulgaria has good weather

              And we have a cheerful autumn rain. smile
      3. +3
        31 October 2016 12: 19
        Quote: Danil Larionov
        Well, they shake it off and that immediately oil prices will rise.

        Yes, poverty in those parts, it seems to be for a long time. For a short, in general, "the eccentricities of the iron prostate" (one of the nicknames of Chavez) will have to pay long and tediously. Generations, apparently. Because to break, it's quick and easy. And to build (and even repair) is long and expensive.
        1. +2
          31 October 2016 16: 19
          he turned a semi-colonial country into a free country, only with him the poor did not even starve.
          1. +3
            31 October 2016 16: 41
            Quote: elenagromova
            he turned a semi-colonial country into a free one,

            Is it like this? What was this "miraculous transformation"?
            Quote: elenagromova
            only with him the poor at least did not starve.

            Nothing, now they are catching up.
            Along with those who have never starved at all.
            If "freedom" is equality in fasting, then nafig such freedom is not needed.
    3. +6
      31 October 2016 06: 29
      There is no defeat yet. On the street go not only positioners, but also supporters of the legitimate government. And there are a lot of them too. Impeachment is not provided for by the constitution - this is already the "opposition" monkeying with Brazil. In general, it is too early to talk about the victory of all Capriles and other riffraffs. God grant that this will never be discussed at all. Hold on, Nicholas!
      1. +6
        31 October 2016 07: 00
        Quote: elenagromova
        Hold on, Nicholas!

        Everything is complicated Elena hi launched the country Nicholas ... a bus driver with a high school education, lacks state wisdom, and strategic thinking.
        1. +4
          31 October 2016 10: 48
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          Everything is complicated Elena, launched the country Nicholas ... a bus driver, with a lyceum education, lacks state wisdom and strategic thinking.

          Come on, as V. Lenin said - "The cook can also rule the state." Here the point is different. If the entire economy rests on oil production, then even if you crack and be seven inches in your head, but when oil prices fall, the budget will collapse in spite of wisdom and strategic thinking.
          The fuss of the opposition naturally fits into the strategy of mattresses to eliminate unwanted regimes. Dilma Rousseff was suspended through impeachment, Maduro seek to remove through a referendum. Who will remain in South America, who does not fit into the concept of American democracy?
          There is something else annoying - the calm of Moscow over the possible loss of a strategic partner in this region.
          Why not buy back oil from Maduro at the current price for future production of $ 5-10 billion? It is like support at a difficult time and at the same time consolidation of Russian interest in Venezuela, and with the prospect of rising oil prices in the future, profit is also not small. As they say, both the sheep and the wolves are full.
          1. +2
            31 October 2016 13: 08
            Quote: Nyrobsky
            Why not buy back oil from Maduro at the current price for future production of $ 5-10 billion?

            There, it seems, China acts as a "money bag" and we, Russia, provide political support.
        2. +2
          31 October 2016 14: 27
          What does it have to do with a profession? If Americans deliberately felled the economy. Or what, Capriles will come, will bring order? Due to what will bring? If, God forbid, assume for a second that he will come (although this will not happen) - the United States will simply plant Venezuela on a credit needle. Also in due time destroyed the economy of Chile.
          1. +3
            1 November 2016 01: 20
            Quote: elenagromova
            What does it have to do with a profession? If Americans deliberately felled the economy. Or what, Capriles will come, will bring order? Due to what will bring? If, God forbid, assume for a second that he will come (although this will not happen) - the United States will simply plant Venezuela on a credit needle. Also in due time destroyed the economy of Chile.

            The Venezuelan economy was not overwhelmed by the Americans, but by the populism of the authorities. While oil was expensive, it was possible to feed part of the population on the ball, but now it isn’t.
      2. +9
        31 October 2016 07: 40
        Quote: elenagromova
        Hold on, Nicholas!

        laughing Elena., You forgot to write -And good mood wassat
      3. +4
        31 October 2016 12: 08
        Quote: elenagromova
        There is no defeat yet. On the street go not only positioners, but also supporters of the legitimate government. And there are a lot of them too. Impeachment is not provided for by the constitution - this is already the "opposition" monkeying with Brazil. In general, it is too early to talk about the victory of all Capriles and other riffraffs. God grant that this will never be discussed at all. Hold on, Nicholas!

        Elena, do not mislead the 6 people in the Venezuelan constitution (as in any other in the world) the lawful procedure for removing the president from power is prescribed — in Venezuela — this is a referendum — and this is what the president is afraid of a referendum called — can you name it?
        wisely does everything to avoid it - because he understands - as in any social state, the president bring the country to a pen - it will go either to prison or to the grave - although he can still escape
        1. +2
          31 October 2016 14: 25
          let's take yours away?
          1. +3
            31 October 2016 16: 23
            Quote: elenagromova
            let's take yours away?

            Elena, are you in Venezuela when you move? Why I ask, there are wild lines for toilet paper and grub, so I’ll have to get rubbed here in Russia. If you contact me, I will help you bring the bags to the gangway smile
            PS If I can’t do it myself, Atalef will call for help
            1. +2
              1 November 2016 01: 24
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: elenagromova
              let's take yours away?

              Elena, are you in Venezuela when you move? Why I ask, there are wild lines for toilet paper and grub, so I’ll have to get rubbed here in Russia. If you contact me, I will help you bring the bags to the gangway smile
              PS If I can’t do it myself, Atalef will call for help

              She will not be able to move to Venezuela - she has already gathered in North Korea laughing
              Unless she’s exclusively allowed laughing dual Venezuelan - North Korean citizenship
          2. +1
            1 November 2016 01: 22
            Quote: elenagromova
            let's take yours away?

            It would be for what would be removed. Do not distort, in Venezuela the power really played up and brought the country to hunger.
    4. +6
      31 October 2016 07: 31
      Instead of developing a program to restore the country's economy, together with the government .. The opposition acts on the principle of removing Maduro, and then we'll see ... and abroad will help us ...
      1. +5
        31 October 2016 08: 33
        this is not the opposition, these are people who need money, and there is the opportunity and desire to get to the feeding trough.

        so, by the way, in our country, such as nanichal lesch, white-bellies, apple trees, and other riffraffers.
        we don’t have an opposition, we have an oppositionist or a pin-up populist, or he does the same thing only you know to whom. (with all due respect).
        the opposition and the president are like gas and brake in a car.
        1. +2
          31 October 2016 13: 17
          Quote: Kostya Andreev
          this is not the opposition, these are people who need money, and there is the opportunity and desire to get to the feeding trough.

          You rightly said all the so-called opposition in Venezuela is a bunch of traitors to their country bought by the United States by Israel who only want to give it to their masters to plunder natural resources and turn it into a "new" Colombia, that is, into a territory intended for growing even more drugs for stuffing the pockets of American Israeli European businessmen, including those distributing drugs around the world.
          We already went through all this when, in the 90s, the "gang" of Gusinsky Abramovichs, Berezovsky's Gaidars and Chubais under the leadership of Yeltsin came to power in Russia.
          1. +2
            1 November 2016 01: 27
            Quote: quilted jacket
            Quote: Kostya Andreev
            this is not the opposition, these are people who need money, and there is the opportunity and desire to get to the feeding trough.

            You rightly said all the so-called opposition in Venezuela is a bunch of traitors to their country bought by the United States by Israel who only want to give it to their masters to plunder natural resources and turn it into a "new" Colombia, that is, into a territory intended for growing even more drugs for stuffing the pockets of American Israeli European businessmen, including those distributing drugs around the world.
            We already went through all this when, in the 90s, the "gang" of Gusinsky Abramovichs, Berezovsky's Gaidars and Chubais under the leadership of Yeltsin came to power in Russia.

            Are you a connoisseur of the Venezuelan opposition ??? Have you been there often? Professionally studied the topic? Along the way, you invent from your head what you pass off as an axiom. The main thing is to fit into the trend of cheers-patriots: if there is no water in the tap, then ___ In general, according to the text.
            1. +1
              2 November 2016 19: 40
              Quote: Normal ok
              Are you a connoisseur of the Venezuelan opposition ??? Have you been there often? Professionally studied the topic? Along the way, you invent from your head what you pass off as an axiom. The main thing is to fit into the trend of cheers-patriots: if there is no water in the tap, then ___ In general, according to the text.

              Venezuela, located on the opposite side of the Earth, is a central issue for Israel. After all, there are no other problems in the Middle East.
    5. +2
      31 October 2016 08: 39
      Another Latin American country falls under the States. The servants of the people, they are the same in all countries - whoever pays serves him.
      1. +9
        31 October 2016 08: 52
        They themselves are to blame: it is necessary to develop the economy, and not just to breed anti-American rhetoric.
        1. +4
          31 October 2016 11: 54
          and stupidly eat oil money
    6. +7
      31 October 2016 09: 01
      We in the USSR also played the "oil card", but in such a way that all the people's welfare went to crooks. It is necessary to build a national economy, and not wait for good oil prices. This also applies to us. At a certain moment, the growth of oil will no longer be able to compensate for the growing consumption, the price of oil, it also has a ceiling. Our government, for example, announced a "planned reduction in consumption", instead of actually helping people with work and income.
      1. 0
        31 October 2016 10: 25
        instead of really helping people with work and income.

        For example "give a salary". Then print money and add wages and print money again ... then prices will jump up with an incredible gait ...
        1. +2
          31 October 2016 11: 00
          Quote: Hupfri
          For example "give a salary". Then print money and add wages and print money again ... then prices will jump up with an incredible gait ...

          We already heard this art whistle. Is there anything else in the repertoire?
      2. 0
        31 October 2016 12: 37
        Quote: Altona
        all public welfare went to crooks

        Gazprom and Rosneft, are they crooks? I think you're wrong.
        Quote: Altona
        It is necessary to build a national economy

        Yeah. And also give everyone a hammer. So that when such a phrase came to his head, he immediately hit himself with this hammer on the head. And thus he drove out bad thoughts from there.
        Quote: Altona
        rather than waiting for good oil prices

        And what shisha, if not secret? To build something, you need to invest in the construction. What shisha do you propose to invest there?
        Quote: Altona
        instead of really helping people with work and income.

        But what can she do? Does she, like Hottabych, have a magic beard from which she can methodically tear her hair?
        Unlike you, a country is run by sane people. Which quite well know their real capabilities. And fairy tales don’t tell you how it will be super-earned just the other day.
        1. +2
          31 October 2016 13: 30
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Yeah. And also give everyone a hammer. So that when such a phrase came to his head, he immediately hit himself with this hammer on the head. And thus he drove out bad thoughts from there.

          Hmmm, and why the heck let me say such an economy that will work mainly in the interests of other people? I need her to work for me and not for a bunch of oligarchs.
          Quote: rjxtufh
          And fairy tales don’t tell you how it will be super-earned just the other day.

          And what kind of people are they telling us about future dairy rivers and jelly banks before the elections?
          1. +1
            31 October 2016 16: 29
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            and why the heck let's say such an economy that will work mainly in the interests of other people?

            In order not to die of hunger, I guess.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            I need her to work for me and not for a bunch of oligarchs

            You need to calm down your greed at least a little. And less to look into someone else's pocket, get out of the habit of "socialism".
            Better yet, move to North. Korea. For permanent residence. And there you can enjoy the "ideal company".
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            And what kind of people are they telling us about future dairy rivers and jelly banks before the elections?

            And I do not know where you find such.
            1. +2
              31 October 2016 17: 38
              Quote: rjxtufh
              In order not to die of hunger, I guess.

              Not by bread alone. This is the first. And just at such a section of the product it will turn out to die of starvation, because for someone the French roll and pearls are small, and for whom the soup is empty. This is the second.
              Quote: rjxtufh
              You need to calm down your greed at least a little. And less to look into someone else's pocket, get out of the habit of "socialism".

              Why's that? Greed is the foundation of capitalism. If you are so generous, go to North Korea or Cuba or where else they are building a parody of socialism. And from hell is this my pocket has become a stranger to me? And yes, such advice is usually given by people, even to a first approximation, who have no idea what generosity is and who intensively look into someone else’s pocket, but they don’t need competition, I understand that. smile
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Better yet, move to North. Korea. For permanent residence. And there you can enjoy the "ideal company".

              Why should I go there? I feel good here too. It’s you who are generous with us, you should go there.
              Quote: rjxtufh
              And I do not know where you find such.

              So they themselves are. Already a whole State Duma and the government. smile
              1. 0
                31 October 2016 17: 46
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                Not by bread alone.

                One, one, do not hesitate. Not for a second.
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                Greed is the foundation of capitalism.

                Did you come up with this or read from someone? Although, I know, at Marx.
                The "teaching" of this "great economist" has already gone bankrupt. And the rivers, just rivers of blood shed them under cover. And still, full of adepts. Not for a second doubting that Marx (and the rest of the gang), they are great.
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                I understand it

                Glad you described yourself in detail. Do not be shy.
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                It’s you who are generous with us, you should go there.

                Think Sev. Korea and Cuba, is it a society of generous people? I personally doubt it.
                1. +2
                  31 October 2016 18: 16
                  Quote: rjxtufh
                  One, one, do not hesitate. Not for a second.

                  But I will continue. smile
                  Quote: rjxtufh
                  Did you come up with this or read from someone? Although, I know, at Marx.

                  And where am I mistaken? Is capitalism based on the generosity of individuals and society as a whole?
                  Quote: rjxtufh
                  Glad you described yourself in detail. Do not be shy.

                  And you dear and you. smile Why be shy? Long live social Darwinism.
                  Quote: rjxtufh
                  Think Sev. Korea and Cuba, is it a society of generous people? I personally doubt it.

                  Well, there is socialism. In theory, they should. And so who knows. I definitely have nothing to do there.
                  The "teaching" of this "great economist" has already gone bankrupt.

                  smile You bury him too soon.
                  And the rivers, just the rivers of blood shed them hiding.

                  The formation of capitalism, as I understand it, was completely painless? People once woke up smiled at each other shook hands and said "let's live under capitalism" and went to build capitalism with a song. And yes, tell me, dear, how will your capitalism function with further growth in labor productivity? It is already clear that this growth is gradually provoking a crisis, but what will happen next? And yes, in your opinion, capitalism is still the end of history? The highest phase of development? What's next? Are you giving humanity a chance or have you decided to organize Brezhnev's stagnation?
                  1. +1
                    31 October 2016 21: 38
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    Is capitalism based on the generosity of individuals and society as a whole?

                    And what, the world is black and white?
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    In theory should

                    You just make me laugh.
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    You bury him too soon.

                    Too late. Catastrophically late. Look, what kind of business have you done.
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    The formation of capitalism, as I understand it, went completely painlessly?

                    So after all, formation was going on. Something new and progressive.
                    And here are people suffering from what? Due to the fact that some pseudo-religious sectarians decided to establish their own, pseudo-religious dictatorship? Why would anyone even have to suffer for this?
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    It is already clear that this growth is slowly and slowly provoking a crisis, but what will happen next?

                    The crisis will be. Global. Deep. And the sooner, the less painless. But there is little hope for this, so it will be deep and painful.
                    And it's all about the "socialization of capitalism." The authorities of the developed countries are doing everything possible to delay the crisis. Indulging society. Completely forgetting that a delayed crisis is much more terrible than a normal, not prolonged one.
                    2008 and filling the crisis with money still comes back with all the bloody hiccups, mark my word. And so, we would now, in 2016, have all forgotten about that crisis. And only historians and economists would remember him.
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    And yes, in your opinion, is capitalism still the end of history?

                    What nonsense, of course, no. But society has not come up with anything better than capitalism.
                    And there are very few really capitalist countries in the world. Moreover, the vast majority of humanity lives in pre-capitalist formations. So, humanity still has much to grow.
                    1. 0
                      31 October 2016 23: 35
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      And what, the world is black and white?

                      Of course no. Well, look at the world in full color without wearing filter glasses when you don’t like something. Yes, man is by nature greedy, someone more someone less, but greed is common to almost everyone. And maximizing profits and minimizing losses by the most cannibalistic methods is that same greed.
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      You just make me laugh.

                      Laughter is good, as they say, it prolongs life.
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      Too late. Catastrophically late. Look, what kind of business have you done.

                      And actually what? Just do not wring your hands and moan theatrically about the millions of dead and all that jazz. If you arrange an excursion to more distant times, we will see the same thing because a person is imperfect. He is certainly created in the image and likeness, but still not God. Much is known only by trial and error, sometimes cruel and even very.
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      So after all, formation was going on. Something new and progressive.

                      But did people immediately realize that it was the newest - progressive? smile
                      And here are people suffering from what? Due to the fact that some pseudo-religious sectarians decided to establish their own, pseudo-religious dictatorship? Why would anyone even have to suffer for this?

                      All power is from God. Forgot? smile Do you see in my opinion it happened so how it happened smile due to the fact that the mass consciousness was not ready for a new socio-economic formation. Therefore, we got such a wild mixture of feudalism with socialism. Well, historically, we have a strong central authority, for there is no other way to survive, but it turned out that we needed more time for perestroika than the Communists thought, plus any other external and internal negative factors. Of course, they tried to raise this new man, but something did not work out.
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      The crisis will be. Global. Deep. And the sooner, the less painless. But there is little hope for this, so it will be deep and painful.

                      You never said how your beloved capitalism will work with a further increase in labor productivity. smile This is when one with a bipod and 10000 with a spoon.
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      And it's all about the "socialization of capitalism." The authorities of the developed countries are doing everything possible to delay the crisis. Indulging society. Completely forgetting that a delayed crisis is much more terrible than a normal, not prolonged one.

                      It is not a matter of socialization. And what’s really bad about her? Do you want an honest worker Dokh from hunger to be in your street through no fault of his own?
                      The point is precisely in the growth of labor productivity. That, in my opinion, is the main reason. Under capitalism, the system can no longer function normally. Further there will be new crises even after global reboots and faster and faster each time, unless of course the society stops in development.
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      2008 and filling the crisis with money still comes back with all the bloody hiccups, mark my word. And so, we would now, in 2016, have all forgotten about that crisis. And only historians and economists would remember him.

                      smile Forgot how much? How much will this wait until a new crisis? All these cramps with the printing press from the fact that no one knows what to do.
                      What nonsense, of course, no. But society has not come up with anything better than capitalism.
                      Invented but alas, has not yet matured.
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      Moreover, the vast majority of humanity lives in pre-capitalist formations. So, humanity still has much to grow.

                      And where are these countries? With tear-free capitalism? smile Everywhere has its own specifics. You would have remembered some kind of Zusuls by your logic, and feudalism with a slave system is not so bad for humanity, but they live these same Zusuls of a primitive communal system.
                      1. +1
                        1 November 2016 00: 34
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        And actually what?

                        "Soviet power" were called. Have you not heard? This UG was based on the pseudo-religion Marxism-Leninism.
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        All power is from God. Forgot?

                        And did not even remember.
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        the mass consciousness was not ready for a new socio-economic formation

                        Apparently you need to repeat for the 101st time that such a CEF as "socialism" has never existed in wildlife, never will, and never will. The pseudo-religious sect of "witnesses of socialism" tried to hide under this guise. Moreover, at different times they were called differently.
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        how will your beloved capitalism work with a further increase in labor productivity

                        My name is not Nostradamus. See for yourself.
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        The point is precisely in the growth of labor productivity.

                        The fact is that the usual cyclical crisis is not allowed to happen. And the case will end in a systemic crisis. Mark my word.
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        Under capitalism, the system can no longer function normally.

                        A crisis is normal under capitalism, if you forget. The element of management system settings. Therefore, it is not necessary to drive him deeper, otherwise he will find a loophole and crash with three times the force.
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        All these cramps with the printing press from the fact that no one knows what to do.

                        All these spasms of the Fed from irresponsibility and cowardice. "Oh, how can a crisis be allowed in an election year?" "Ah, our candidate will not be elected / re-elected." Now we are waiting for a systemic crisis instead of a cyclical one. He's already on the doorstep. Not enough will seem to anyone.
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        Invented but alas, has not yet matured.

                        Well yes. Pseudo-religion is infuriating. Folk with rot.
                        Somewhere I heard it before?
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        then zusulov

                        Maybe the Zulus?
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        according to your logic, feudalism with a slave system is not so bad for humanity

                        Somehow you perverted my logic to exactly the opposite.
                        1. 0
                          1 November 2016 02: 19
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          Apparently you need to repeat for the 101st time that such a CEF as "socialism" has never existed in wildlife, never will, and never will. The pseudo-religious sect of "witnesses of socialism" tried to hide under this guise. Moreover, at different times they were called differently.

                          Time will tell. smile
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          My name is not Nostradamus. See for yourself.

                          Perhaps yes, you have more scope.
                          The fact is that the usual cyclical crisis is not allowed to happen. And the case will end in a systemic crisis. Mark my word.

                          It will be both systemic and cyclical with the normal tuning of the management system in the form of a third world. Otherwise, capitalism fails. But by the way, does this suit you?
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          Well yes. Pseudo-religion is infuriating. Folk with rot.
                          Somewhere I heard it before?

                          What the fuck is pseudo-religion? Something can be turned into pseudo-religion by dogmatizing from head to toe, then declaring all this rubbish and throwing it in the trash. And our people are good, it’s forever like that, it’s only the tsar with the boyars who interfere well with foreign agents of influence. I heard that too somewhere.
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          Maybe the Zulus?

                          Irony.
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          Somehow you perverted my logic to exactly the opposite.

                          This is not me, this is your logic.
                        2. +1
                          1 November 2016 10: 06
                          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                          But by the way, does this suit you?

                          What suits you?
                          I wrote that a small cyclical crisis (tincture) has never harmed capitalism.
                          Why did you decide that I was satisfied with the systemic crisis (it just didn’t suit me the most), and, especially, the war? Stop your wild fantasies.
                          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                          Otherwise, capitalism fails.

                          The crises of capitalism have nothing to do with wars. Not to one.
                          Remember the course of "Soviet history" less. They did not write there yet.
                          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                          What the fuck is pseudo-religion?

                          Marxism-Leninism. A typical pseudo-religious current of the sectarian type.
                          From this and the persecution of traditional faiths in the USSR. To the cries of supposedly atheism.
                          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                          This is not me, this is your logic.

                          Don’t worry, everything is fine with the logic. Which I wish you too.
    7. +2
      31 October 2016 10: 34
      Quote: Hupfri
      For example "give a salary". Then print money and add wages and print money again ... then prices will jump up with an incredible gait ...

      ---------------------------
      I wrote "give work and income". Why juggle? You can launch non-inflationary sources, there are many of them. And by the way, to complete the "long-term construction" (115 thousand objects for today, by the way), which our "super-managers" from the United Russia are trying to do.
      1. 0
        31 October 2016 11: 04
        Quote: Altona
        Non-inflationary sources can be launched, there are many of them.

        What are these non-inflationary sources?
        Quote: Altona
        And by the way, to complete the "long-term construction" (115 thousand objects for today, by the way), which our "super-managers" from the United Russia are trying to do.

        For example?
      2. +1
        31 October 2016 11: 38
        Quote: Altona
        You can launch non-inflationary sources, there are many of them. And by the way, to complete the "long-term construction" (115 thousand objects for today, by the way), which our "super-managers" from the United Russia are trying to do.

        Do not want to become president and rule the country? Or is it more convenient from the sofa
        1. +3
          31 October 2016 11: 43
          And the president and the government with us always do everything right, and the advice of the others is a priori wrong?
        2. 0
          31 October 2016 12: 10
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: Altona
          You can launch non-inflationary sources, there are many of them. And by the way, to complete the "long-term construction" (115 thousand objects for today, by the way), which our "super-managers" from the United Russia are trying to do.

          Do not want to become president and rule the country? Or is it more convenient from the sofa

          to complete a long-term construction-without money to get it? Or do they need to be taken from somewhere else?
        3. +2
          31 October 2016 14: 51
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Do not want to become president and rule the country? Or is it more convenient from the sofa

          I would not mind. Those officials and deputies who will be shot and dispossessed at the same time will be against.
      3. 0
        31 October 2016 12: 39
        Quote: Altona
        Non-inflationary sources can be launched, there are many of them.

        Brilliant.
        Can you list them? And, most importantly, their "exhaust"?
    8. 0
      31 October 2016 12: 16
      Quote: Oleg Chuvakin
      The collapse of oil socialism

      In fact, the collapse of oil socialism occurred in a slightly different place and at a different time. In the USSR and in 1991
      What Chavez did with Venezuela is impossible to describe in any words. But a prosperous country was before him.
      1. 0
        31 October 2016 12: 24
        Quote: rjxtufh
        But a prosperous country was before him.

        Venezuela that we lost? smile
        1. 0
          31 October 2016 12: 49
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          Venezuela that we lost?

          They have lost. And really, lost.
    9. +1
      31 October 2016 12: 19
      In resource-based economies there can be no socialism or capitalism - these are just the countries of the "third world" (third party), "third grade", something that is not a factor, just a source, a gas station, one of many. The rulers in these countries live as long as they manage to negotiate with the buyer to maintain the price of exported raw materials at a level that ensures the preservation of his power.
      1. +1
        31 October 2016 12: 59
        Quote: iouris
        In commodity economies there can be neither socialism nor capitalism

        Capitalism is a socio-economic formation (OEF). Exactly the same as feudalism and the slave system.
        OEF "socialism" never existed in nature. This is nothing more than an invention of the Bolsheviks.
        If we consider "Stalinist socialism" in the USSR, it is a pseudo-religious (not secular) society, built on the principles of the slave-owning CEF.
        If we consider "developed socialism" (it would be more correct to say "Khrushchev's and later"), then this is a pseudo-religious society, built on the principles of the feudal OEF.
        It was Khrushchev who made the feudal revolution in the USSR, liberating the Soviet slaves (ORDER OF THE PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE USSR, April 25, 1956). And in this he was supported by the "comrades". However, a little later, when he encroached on the sacred cow, the very pseudo-religious nature of society, he was dismissed from power by the same "comrades".
        Dismissed this pseudo-religiosity of society, turning it into secular, only Yeltsin. Which, incidentally, did not mean at all the automatic transition of this society from the feudal stage to the capitalist one.
        This is so, political economy in short.
        1. +2
          31 October 2016 13: 17
          Quote: rjxtufh
          This is so, political economy in short.

          This is nonsense in a nutshell. Well, you don’t understand what Russia is and what the USSR is. Alas.
          1. 0
            31 October 2016 16: 22
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Well, you don’t understand what Russia is and what the USSR is.

            Do not worry so much. I understand more of yours. Which I wish you too.
            1. 0
              31 October 2016 16: 48
              Actually, what and how do you understand, we all already know here, opus by opus in the comments, not only in this article but also in others, complete not knowing and not understanding what is happening.
              1. 0
                31 October 2016 17: 11
                Quote: The Bloodthirster
                we already know everything here

                Happy for you. Comprehensible you are mine.
                Quote: The Bloodthirster
                complete lack of knowledge and understanding of what is happening

                But here I am no longer happy for you. If you don’t understand, then you haven’t matured yet. But you will grow up, maybe. Although people. with not quite adequate login "Bloodsucker" ... I doubt it. That's just because of the login.
            2. +2
              31 October 2016 17: 45
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Do not worry so much. I understand more of yours. Which I wish you too.

              No, you don’t understand. Otherwise, they wouldn’t write any nonsense. However, not you are the first, not you are the last. Like you spilled the sea. It seems people are not stupid, but instead of the forest you see only trees and that’s not all. smile
              1. 0
                31 October 2016 21: 41
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                No, you don’t understand.

                Wrong.
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                Otherwise, they wouldn’t write any nonsense.

                And examples of "nonsense" can you give?
                You can’t. Why then stir up the water? Everything is written there correctly.
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                but no, instead of the forest you see only trees and that’s not all.

                You give me Soviet tales about a gray bull-calf. Tired of them to the ears. Do not want anymore.
                They brought the country and people with their pseudo-religious sectarianism to sheer poverty, and still strive to talk about the "advantages of socialism."
                1. 0
                  1 November 2016 00: 04
                  Quote: rjxtufh
                  And examples of "nonsense" can you give?

                  And this dull nonsense about the slave system?
                  Quote: rjxtufh
                  You give me Soviet tales about a gray bull-calf. Tired of them to the ears. Do not want anymore.
                  They brought the country and people with their pseudo-religious sectarianism to sheer poverty, and still strive to talk about the "advantages of socialism."

                  Yes Yes. What has the country been cursed for (s) _________ (enter and underline as necessary) smile
                  1. 0
                    1 November 2016 00: 39
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    And this dull nonsense about the slave system?

                    Read the DECREE OF THE PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL of the USSR of June 26, 1940.
                    Read the DECREE OF THE PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL of the USSR of December 26, 1941.
                    And draw conclusions.
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    What has the country been cursed for (s) _________ (enter and underline as necessary)

                    You do not translate arrows. And answer for yourself.
                    1. 0
                      1 November 2016 02: 38
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      Read the DECREE OF THE PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL of the USSR of June 26, 1940.
                      Read the DECREE OF THE PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL of the USSR of December 26, 1941.
                      And draw conclusions.

                      And what conclusions do you think I should draw? About how bloody komunyaki oppressed the people? Or what stupidity?
                      Quote: rjxtufh
                      You do not translate arrows. And answer for yourself.

                      If you hit your hand with a hammer, the hammer is to blame? Oh how serious. I didn’t hang this noodles on my ears and didn’t answer me. And you, Mr. Switchman.
                      1. 0
                        1 November 2016 10: 53
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        And what conclusions do you think I should draw?

                        What do you do, and so are yours.
                        But the prison term for leaving the master, who does not give his consent, is slavery. In pure form. Only in antiquity, such nostrils were torn and flogged. And in the USSR it was civilized, they put him in prison. And what is the Gulag? This is actually hard labor. From 5 to 8 years, by the way, by the last decree they gave. Including and 20 minutes late for work, which was considered absenteeism.
                        Here is such a "society of happy people" under the great and sun-faced Yoshi. "Socialism" was called. That in fact meant pseudo-religious despotism with a slave-owning way of managing.
                        After all, they often write about repressions of the late 30s. But they write about it without beginning and without end. How would these repressions come from nowhere. And go nowhere. The spies were suddenly found. In large quantities. And as everyone was exhausted, they calmed down.
                        Bullshit, of course. This does not happen. Something global in the country was about to happen. And it actually happened. Just in 1937. This year, Yoshi made his reactionary coup (here it is important not to be confused with a simple "palace" coup). Those. he lowered the social structure in the USSR from the feudal stage of development even lower, into slaveholding. In other words, society in the USSR degraded even lower in its development. Not at once, of course. Gradually. Finally, the “victory of socialism” was fixed just by the DECREE of the PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL of the USSR of June 26, 1940. Everything, the next reactionary coup in the USSR ended successfully.
                        I note that a similar degradation of society (and a reactionary coup, of course) in the USSR has already happened once in 1927. Then Yoshi (still with his comrades) degraded the social structure in the USSR from the level of "state capitalism", which was promoted by a certain Ulyanov nicknamed Lenin, to a full-fledged feudal level. And after 10 years again.
                        This is the true essence of Stalinism, the gradual degradation of society (utterly, and in all respects) under the cries of a bright future. But the slave is not able to create. He did not create. If Khrushchev in 1956. did not make a revolution (feudal), the USSR would collapse even in the late 50s. Maximum in the early 60s. And so the society in the USSR received a rather strong impetus for its development. And for some time it was quite stable.
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        If you hit your hand with a hammer, the hammer is to blame?

                        And where does the hammer? I just asked you not to translate the arrows. On others. And look more at yourself.
                        1. +1
                          1 November 2016 13: 00
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          What do you do, and so are yours.

                          Thank you boyar for your great kindness.
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          Finally, the “victory of socialism” was fixed just by the DECREE of the PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL of the USSR of June 26, 1940. Everything, the next reactionary coup in the USSR ended successfully.

                          For tearing facts out of context, one has to kick on the head. So that it was no longer common. 40-41 years are the prewar and war years. So the staff doesn’t have to whistle about the slave system and everything else. How would you act in such a situation? And then smart wise advisers with hand-guides are always to hell, but how to work and be responsible for their affairs so who the hell you will find.
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          If Khrushchev in 1956. did not make a revolution (feudal), the USSR would collapse even in the late 50s.

                          Do not even stutter about this manager. Supply manager, he is the supply manager.
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          And where does the hammer? I just asked you not to translate the arrows. On others. And look more at yourself.

                          The doctor will heal himself. I didn’t translate the arrows where you saw it; I probably don’t know in the mirror. Once again I say socialism requires high social responsibility from everyone, or at least from the bulk, or even in extreme cases, from the minimum sufficient. If this is not then socialism as such is not in content. This is the cook who must be able to manage the state.
                          Quote: rjxtufh
                          This is the true essence of Stalinism, the gradual degradation of society (utterly, and in all respects) under the cries of a bright future. But the slave is not able to create. He did not create.

                          Paphos then how much, at least carry it. They promised to remember us during perestroika and then an unprecedented explosion of creativity wherever possible and impossible, they say they will remove censorship and the CPSU with its control and red tape and all as a tear. But in fact, received your degradation. But there’s nothing here, we’ll wait a hundred and two hundred years and take off, it flies up tight because the bloody legacy is pulled to the ground. As there before or the padishah will die or donkey yes?
                        2. +1
                          1 November 2016 14: 37
                          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                          40-41 years are the prewar and war years.

                          Ahhhhh. Well, okay. The usual Soviet dull shnyaga. Slavery for good ends. Remind me with what intentions the road to hell is paved?
                          There are no such GREAT goals for which a person is turned into a slave. This is clear?
                          At the same time, I would also like to remind you that all this disgrace was canceled by Khrushchev (and in fact a feudal revolution took place in the USSR) only on 25.04.56. What "pre-war years" were there from 1945 to 1956?
                          So whom will you kick on the head? Themselves? Do you reach?
                          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                          Do not even stutter about this manager. Supply manager, he is the supply manager.

                          This man gave freedom to millions of Soviet people. And your parents, most likely, too. And you are his shit ... Not good.
                          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                          Paphos then how much, at least carry it.

                          No, just bare facts. Against your hysterical remarks. You have no arguments. Only empty words "for the great past." Transcribed once upon a time in political information.
        2. +1
          31 October 2016 17: 25
          Quote: rjxtufh
          This is so, political economy in short.

          Political economy is a science that E. Onegin understood, who he read to the classics, who understood that there was private ownership of the means of production. And you are an ideologist and an unscrupulous propagandist. OEF is determined by the basis, and not the state of the head of individual subjects.
          1. 0
            31 October 2016 17: 54
            Quote: iouris
            who understood that there is private ownership of the means of production, I read

            If you decided to tell me that there was "public property" in the USSR, then it's not worth it. Because it's a lie. All property in the USSR belonged to the Church. Those. the Communist Party. Or rather, its hierarchs.
            At the same time, under "Stalinist socialism" its ultimate concentration took place in the same hands (Yoshi Dzhugashvili, if it is not clear). And slave-owning TPO.
            Under Khrushchev and beyond, property was eroded among the top of the party nomenclature. And there were feudal TPOs.
            That's all. There was nothing new and unusual in "socialism". Unless the society was not secular, but pseudo-religious. And the riding feudal slave owner was called not "tsar" but "secretary".
            1. +1
              31 October 2016 18: 42
              Quote: rjxtufh
              All property in the USSR belonged to the Church. Those. Communist parties.

              In my opinion, this is called extreme subjectivity. You at least read Jilas. It is harmful to close. F. Bacon called this "the idols of the cave".
              1. 0
                31 October 2016 21: 45
                Quote: iouris
                In my opinion, this is called extreme subjectivity.

                And in my opinion this is called the "obvious fact".
                Quote: iouris
                You at least read Jilas.

                And you at least turn on the brain.
                Quote: iouris
                This F. Bacon called

                His opinion is not interesting to me. Which I wish you too.
                1. 0
                  1 November 2016 12: 46
                  Francis Bacon is not a fireman, but a philosopher, the author of the deductive method.
                  1. 0
                    1 November 2016 14: 40
                    Quote: iouris
                    Francis Bacon is not a fireman, but a philosopher, the author of the deductive method.

                    So I say, I am not interested in his opinion.
                    I have my own opinion. And methods of cognition of the world and analysis of events, too.
    10. 0
      31 October 2016 13: 22
      For some reason, in Bolivia under Morales and Ecuador under Carrea, things are better. Although the regimes are related, the resources are somewhat lower than in Venezuela.
      1. 0
        31 October 2016 16: 23
        What is common between Chavez and Carrea?
        Exactly nothing.
        From this the result is so different.
    11. +3
      31 October 2016 15: 01
      There is a shortage of food and medicine in the country, and authorities continue to declare the need to reduce global oil production.

      I have never understood this and I cannot understand it. Venezuela, Cuba, Bangladesh ... Areas with a fertile climate. Take a hoe and arbeiten! Take 2-3 harvests a year! Eat as much as you want! No, forever with outstretched hand, hungry, impoverished. But in cold Russia, in the Kuban, the "lazy and wild" Russians have grown 1 (one million) tons of rice and export it (including) to China. By the way, it is immediately noticeable who really was on the oil needle before the crisis.
      1. +1
        31 October 2016 16: 25
        Quote: piter-tank
        No, forever with outstretched hand, hungry, impoverished.

        Well, not entirely true. In Venezuela, it all started with Chavez's "socialism".
        And in Cuba, with Castro's "socialism".
        In general, there is a common negative trait, "socialism".
    12. 0
      31 October 2016 16: 13
      The revenues of the Venezuelan oil companies collapsed, and the state budget was kept on their money.
      And specific figures are generally amazing - Over the past 6 years, foreign exchange proceeds from the sale of oil decreased by 4200%. In January 2010, Venezuela received $ 3,31 billion from oil sales, and in January 2016 - $ 77 million.
    13. +1
      31 October 2016 16: 22
      Friends, over the past decades we have repeatedly seen how the United States is destroying sovereign states from within, how they inspire dissatisfaction, how they are taking dirty measures to destroy a foreign economy.
      And after that still say that "Maduro brought the country"?
      What will Capriles bring her to? To the state of the colony!
      But I hope he shines a big FIG. Although the situation is difficult.
      1. +3
        31 October 2016 16: 46
        Quote: elenagromova
        What will Capriles bring her to? To the state of the colony!

        Well, that’s the point, but for patented and just liars who don’t understand that with their cries they play into the hands of the United States, this is not understood.
        K. Shakhnazarov said yesterday everything is correct, in the world there are two Ideas-socialism and liberalism, there is a struggle, but the Future is for socialism.
        That's it.
      2. +1
        31 October 2016 17: 27
        There was money from speculation with hydrocarbons, because at a production cost of 10-15 and a price of 200 per barrel, people can rub in glasses and support any power, there is money, there are no fabulous profits ... so you must definitely find guilty. From Martians to Americans. you don’t just have to blame everything on the healthy one. People were not happy with this regime even during the profits. But as usual, all under one comb and to be shot? I have bad news for you, the time of homegrown kings has ended.
    14. 0
      31 October 2016 21: 02
      thanks to the author .. fairly detailed and fairly objective clarified the situation in Venezuela
    15. +1
      1 November 2016 15: 24
      Quote: rjxtufh
      Ahhhhh. Well, okay. The usual Soviet dull shnyaga. Slavery for good ends. Remind me with what intentions the road to hell is paved?
      There are no such GREAT goals for which a person is turned into a slave. This is clear?

      Again you with your hallucinogenic thoughts. What else is slavery? smile You leave this noodle about freedom to someone else; it doesn’t hang on my ears. This road is paved with all sorts of intentions. And yes, I will wait from you for your plan of action in this particular case? Only at once I warn you that all kinds of horror stories about the Invisible Hand of the Market and other tales about the Life-giving Investment are not interesting.
      What "pre-war years" were there from 1945 to 1956?
      So whom will you kick on the head? Themselves? Do you reach?

      Churchill's Fulton speech was addressed to whom?
      This man gave freedom to millions of Soviet people. And your parents, most likely, too. And you are his shit ... Not good.

      In your parallel world, it’s possible.
      Quote: rjxtufh
      No, just bare facts. Against your hysterical remarks. You have no arguments. Only empty words "for the great past." Transcribed once upon a time in political information.

      So far, they are heard only from you. You don’t need my arguments at all, and without them I can see well. Political Information? Yeah, that's it, you feel a seasoned conjuncturist. Previously composed odes of the CPSU.
      1. +1
        1 November 2016 18: 42
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        Again you with your hallucinogenic thoughts.

        Want to be a slave? For God's sake, who's stopping you?
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        What else is slavery?

        The most real. I gave you the documents that introduce it. You just have to puff and tell me tales "for the glorious past."
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        And yes, I will wait from you for your plan of action in this particular case?

        And should I lay out some plan for you?
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        Churchill's Fulton speech was addressed to whom?

        Postman Pechkin, probably.
        I remind you, in Fulton, Churchill was a retired goat drummer. Therefore, he had the right to grind with his tongue everything he wanted. State your private opinion, so to speak.
        Am I supposed to draw far-reaching conclusions based on the chatter of some talker? Do you really want to make me laugh?
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        In your parallel world, it’s possible.

        Those. the fact that Khrushchev abolished slavery in the USSR you deny?
        But they provided you with specific documents. Decrees of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. Will you argue with documents?
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        So far, they are heard only from you.

        Those. references to Decrees, are they hysterics? Then how can you call your "arguments" at the level of primitive emotional outbursts?
        1. +1
          1 November 2016 21: 23
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Want to be a slave? For God's sake, who's stopping you?

          Why's that? This is purely your capitalist troubles. And I’m a Soviet slave man.
          Quote: rjxtufh
          The most real. I brought you the documents introducing him.

          Twenty five again. These fictions are not interesting to me.
          Quote: rjxtufh
          And should I lay out some plan for you?

          Of course no. In this world, no one owes anything to anyone. I just expected that in addition to criticism, you also have a plan of action, it turned out that you have only unreasoned criticism.
          Quote: rjxtufh
          State your private opinion, so to speak.

          Be that as it may, we definitely did not become friends after that.
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Those. the fact that Khrushchev abolished slavery in the USSR you deny?

          How can I cancel something that was not there?
          Quote: rjxtufh
          But they provided you with specific documents. Decrees of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. Will you argue with documents?

          So what? Some two unfortunate documents, you still build the Theory of Everything on them.
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Those. references to Decrees, are they hysterics? Then how can you call your "arguments" at the level of primitive emotional outbursts?

          What does the link to decrees have to do with it? I’m talking about your theatrical cry about some imaginary freedoms, non-freedom, and other fabulous and fantastic things such as slavery.
          1. 0
            1 November 2016 22: 26
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            And I’m a Soviet slave man.

            Yes, I remember these Soviet mantras. How slaves were forced to daldonit that they are not slaves. According to the method of Dr. Goebbels.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            These fictions are not interesting to me.

            Decrees of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, is it fiction? However ...
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            that besides criticism you also have an action plan

            My dear, I am infinitely far from the Fed's bigwigs. And unlike clinical fellow citizens I am not sick with valentarism and stupidity. It's just they who are trying to stick their noses everywhere. And give "correct advice" to everyone. That nobody needs.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            and after that we definitely didn’t become friends.

            And I’ll tell you one more thing, there are no friends (among the states) at all. And the brothers, too.
            There are fellow citizens. It is on them that we must navigate and rely.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            How can I cancel something that was not there?

            Reread Decree of 26.06.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX. And try to understand what is written there.
            Or let serfdom be called not slavery, as it was, but an easy and insignificant misunderstanding. Similar things must somehow lead to a common denominator.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Some two unfortunate documents

            Actually 3 Decrees. Presidium of the Supreme Council of the USSR. If these are not documents, then I do not know what you call documents.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            I’m talking about your theatrical cry about some fictitious freedoms, non-freedoms and other fabulous and fantastic things such as slavery.

            Listen, have you read these decrees? Do you understand what is written there?
            It seems to me that you simply did not understand nicherta. And they are not able to draw analogies.
            1. +1
              1 November 2016 23: 15
              Quote: rjxtufh
              How slaves were forced to daldonit that they are not slaves.

              You just bullied, but I think so. And unlike you, I do not want to be a slave to any system. It pulls you into capitalist slavery. I’m not interested in it.
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Decrees of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, is it fiction?

              Not decrees, but your manipulations.
              Quote: rjxtufh
              My dear, I am infinitely far from the Fed's bigwigs. And unlike clinical fellow citizens I am not sick with valentarism and stupidity. It's just they who are trying to stick their noses everywhere. And give "correct advice" to everyone. That nobody needs.

              That is, you do not understand the question, but criticize? Did I understand you correctly?
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Reread Decree of 26.06.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX. And try to understand what is written there.

              You yourself would understand it would be generally wonderful.
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Actually 3 Decrees. Presidium of the Supreme Council of the USSR. If these are not documents, then I do not know what you call documents.

              So why should I ascribe what I did not say?
              Quote: rjxtufh
              It seems to me that you simply did not understand nicherta. And they are not able to draw analogies.

              So I say you don’t understand what Russia is and what the USSR is. Actually from where we went there and came. Take a look deep into history and draw an analogy. And look at everything not from the point of view of a resident of the West of the East of the North or South, but from the point of view of a resident of Russia, which is both West and East and North and South. And do not hell pull here by the ears any analogies that do not attract the tail just because we are not England, not France, not the USA, not Singapore, not Japan, not Finland, not India, not China. We have our own geopolitical realities.
              1. 0
                2 November 2016 00: 28
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                It pulls you into capitalist slavery

                The slave system is the OEF. And capitalism is also a CEF. Therefore, there can be no "capitalist slavery" in principle. Even in theory. Only if expressed figuratively.
                But "socialism" is just not the OEF. Therefore, slavery under the conditions of "socialism" is quite real in theory. It was real and was in the USSR, under "Stalinist socialism", from 1937 to 1956. At the same time, the formation (forceful implantation) of these relations took place in the USSR from 1937 to 1940. (great terror). I have given you the relevant official documents about this. If this is not enough for you, this is already your problem.

                All that I wanted to tell you on this subject, I said.
                All that you could answer me, you answered.
                I see no reason for further altercations.

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