Military Review

Armored cruiser "Asama" in battle at Cape Shantung. Part I. Preparatory events

94
Armored cruiser "Asama" in battle at Cape Shantung. Part I. Preparatory events



In May-June, the 1903, at the docked armored cruiser “Asama”, docked at the naval arsenal in Kura, repaired the power plant and replaced worn-out components and mechanisms. However, on the subsequent running tests, a number of new malfunctions of the mechanisms of the main power plant appeared. At the beginning of autumn of the same year, the cruiser was again sent to overhaul in Kure, during which, in addition to repairing and adjusting the machines with the replacement of lubricant and babbit, all air ducts, fireproof bricks of the fireboxes, water pipes, and bearings on the main shaft lines were replaced .

In the second half of September, 1903 of “Asama”, having a displacement of 9 855 t, during sea trials, developed with natural thrust and power of 14 021 mechanisms l. with. 19,5 move knots

In January, 1904, as part of the preparation of the cruiser for combat operations, a number of activities were carried out on the ship. Additional protection for crew members, Spardek elements, the navigating bridge and the command post of a senior artillery officer, as well as medium-caliber and artillery deck artillery were designed to provide shields woven from steel cables of various diameters. Work was also carried out on the thermal insulation of all lifting mechanisms located above the lower deck, pipelines and steam pipelines, as well as pumps, fans and electric motors. At the same time, the deviation was corrected, range finders and riflescopes were verified, and the wireless telegraph station was adjusted. After the outbreak of war with Russia on the ship, military training was intensified in all its aspects.



On the eve of the 28 battle of July 1904, the cruiser lacked regular steam boats, rowing boats, boats and geeks. Steam boats were constantly used to mine mines in the Port Arthur area, usually three boats and a dummy (intended to mislead the enemy’s watch). The launch and the rowing boat were left at the base, the whaleboat and the geek along with the davits were kept in Kure. Two steam and two rowing boats were wrapped in tarpaulin and wrapped in cables. Also on the cruiser remained three flat-bottomed boats, two of which were hanging on the shchanzah, abeam aft barbet.

Inside the battery, under the deck covering, machine-gun guards and gun carriages, four sections of anti-torpedo networks, as well as several covers were piled up. In the commander’s cabin, everything remained in its place - tables with side tables, sideboards, stoves, sofas, mirrors and other furnishings.



In the officers' cabins, salons and bedrooms, all the furniture and household items remained in place. “It was such an impression,” wrote the English observer, Captain Hutchison (captain J. de M. Hutchison), “as if responsible people believed that they were simply going to practice shooting.”
The nose conning tower was partially covered with additional protection from a folded tarpaulin with a length of 12 feet, secured on the rail with a two-inch cable. At the same time, the whole cabin was covered with ordinary colored awnings. These measures could not degrade the view from the cabin, which, however, given the intention of the commander of the ship, the captain of the 1 rank of Yashiro Rokuro, to command the cruiser and control the firing from the battle mars, did not matter.



A rangefinder company Barr and Stroud was installed on Mars, there was a horn and a distance indicator set at 500 yards.
Rope fences reinforced with sailors' beds and a double layer of hammocks were installed around the two different rapid-firing twelve-pound guns, as well as around the two on the aft superstructure.



In the midsection deck 6 "guns, in addition to rope barriers, received additional protection from rolled hammocks and tarpaulin.



In order to minimize the probability of detonation of the cellars of the casemate guns, there were fifty shells each and the corresponding number of charges. The number of high-explosive and armor piercing shells at the same time ranged from 38 to 40 and from 12 to 10, respectively.

The following measures were developed to control the middle artillery and the movement of the ship. Course orders must be transferred to the cabin from Mars, the direction of shooting and the target were to be transmitted in the form of orders written on the boards. If the shooting conditions allow, two specially appointed officers who are in the audible zone, with the help of the horns, transmit command orders.



The officer in the nose is attached to five 6 "guns - four front casemate 6" and a single casemate, located on the left side. The second officer, who is in the stern, also has five 6 "guns - four rear casemate 6" and a single casemate, located on the starboard side. The four deck 6 "guns were connected by built-up fire hoses laid along the fences. The upper and lower tools of the casemates have a direct connection. The messenger on the upper deck in the area amidships will serve as a link between the battle mars and the casemates.

Sources:
1. Top secret war at sea 37-38 Meiji. Department VI “Ships and ships”, annexes.
2. Russian-Japanese War 1904-1905 Reports of marine attaches.
Author:
94 comments
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  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 29 October 2016 07: 51
    +4
    What is this - an attempt to complement Andrei from Chelyabinsk? The attempt from my point of view is unsuccessful. A modestly informative article.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2016 09: 41
      +11
      My work appears largely due to just such articles
      1. Schultz
        Schultz 29 October 2016 11: 01
        +5
        And, thanks to such articles and our common work - descendants honor the 320th anniversary of the Russian fleet, so that with the holiday you dear naval commanders of the "written genre", seven feet under the keel and sea luck.
      2. rjxtufh
        rjxtufh 30 October 2016 17: 44
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        My work appears largely due to just such articles

        Further it would be necessary to add "... unfortunately".
    2. sub307
      sub307 29 October 2016 10: 19
      +5
      Ingvar 72
      "What is this - an attempt to supplement Andrey from Chelyabinsk?"
      And that Andrey from Chelyabinsk is an indisputable authority and a "sacred cow"? An article as an article ..., in terms of the degree of "information content", is quite consistent with its format. And there is no sign of any "attempts" to "supplement" anyone.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2016 10: 32
        +8
        Quote: sub307
        And that Andrei from Chelyabinsk is an indisputable authority

        Of course! laughing
        Quote: sub307
        and the "sacred cow"

        Well, how can I say ... after I quit smoking and gained a lot of excess weight - not a cow, of course, but in profile there are some similarities with a hippo laughing
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 29 October 2016 21: 32
          +2
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          . after quitting smoking and gaining a lot of excess weight - not a cow, of course, but in profile there are some similarities with a hippo laughing

          You are straight like me belay Or vice versa what laughing As he quit smoking, so the mammon began to bend slightly feel
    3. avt
      avt 29 October 2016 10: 32
      +5
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The attempt from my point of view is unsuccessful.

      What? So that at the end the author did not write ,, to be continued .... "? wassat
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      A modestly informative article.
      Or can we wait the whole cycle?
      Armored cruiser "Asama" in battle at Cape Shantung. Part I. Preparatory events
    4. Comrade
      30 October 2016 02: 57
      +2
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      What is this - an attempt to complement Andrei from Chelyabinsk?

      Oh no, the articles of the respected and revered by me Andrei do not need additions. Rather, it is an attempt to fill the informational vacuum existing in Russian historiography regarding Japanese warships during the Russo-Japanese War.

      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The attempt from my point of view is unsuccessful

      You know better.
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      A modestly informative article.

      It depends on what to compare :-)
      1. rjxtufh
        rjxtufh 30 October 2016 17: 48
        0
        Quote: Comrade
        Oh no, the articles of the respected and revered by me Andrei do not need additions.

        Well, why not. On his funny opus about "overexposure" I wrote comments on a whole article.
        Amazing people Not knowing the basics, it is taken to talk about the complex.
        It is not clear what it is, arrogance or stupidity.
        Quote: Comrade
        this is an attempt to fill the information vacuum available in Russian historiography regarding Japanese warships during the Russo-Japanese War

        Is he there? Or do you consider your sucked, I hope from the finger, "sensations" reliable information?
        1. Comrade
          30 October 2016 18: 34
          +3
          Quote: rjxtufh
          On his funny opus about "overexposure" I wrote comments on a whole article.

          You are a funny man, Nikolai. Talk about swimming styles, not knowing how to swim.
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Or do you consider your sucked, I hope from the finger, "sensations" reliable information?

          So disprove them.
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 29 October 2016 07: 53
    +7

    Here's another interesting photo from the story ... how all the same, the story is attractive when you start sorting through such photos
  3. Bormanxnumx
    Bormanxnumx 29 October 2016 08: 30
    +5
    In order to minimize the likelihood of detonation of cellars in casemate guns were fifty shells and the corresponding number of charges.

    Strange, the risk of detonation of shells (and especially charges) stored near, even though located in the casemate guns, is significantly higher than in the cellar located under the armored deck and below the waterline. Maybe in this way they tried to increase the rate of fire by decreasing the feed time to the weapon.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2016 09: 39
      +4
      Quote: BORMAN82
      Maybe in this way they tried to increase the rate of fire by decreasing the feed time to the weapon.

      Not in a way that could be, but for sure. It was banal for the Japanese to drag 6-dm shells and charges from the feeders, so they were stored ... wherever they hit :))) They paid for it under Ulsan, but it happened only once during the whole war, so this trick can be considered a success ...
    2. Comrade
      30 October 2016 03: 13
      +2
      Quote: BORMAN82
      Strange, the risk of detonation of shells (and especially charges) stored near, even though located in the casemate guns, is significantly higher than in the cellar located under the armored deck and below the waterline.

      From our point of view, yes, the risk is greater. And if we open the article "Asama and others", then there we can also see the doubts of its author about the decision of the Japanese to minimize the risk of detonation by storing part of the ammunition directly near the guns. Allegedly, this is how the Japanese answered the British when asked why the shells and charges were raised from the cellars.
      It's interesting here. It follows from the article that the Englishman asked "Asama" and he was answered. This bike became widespread and took on an independent life.
      In fact, the Englishman Hutchison did not ask such questions to the Japanese, I absolutely absolutely declare this. The answer to the Englishman put into the mouth of the Japanese is nothing more than author's fiction. Balakin simply doubted, so he decided to back up his doubts with a reference to the Japanese.
      The report says exactly the way I have in the text, Hutchison simply wrote what the Japanese did and why (in order to avoid detonation, they raised part of the ammunition). He further writes that since there was not a single mine detonation, it was not possible to verify in practice this organizational measure.
      He also writes nothing about the fact that, perhaps, this was done to increase the rate of fire. I repeat, a reference to the alleged Japanese response to the alleged British question - bike. This is not in the original report.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 30 October 2016 09: 12
        +3
        Quote: Comrade
        In fact, the Englishman Hutchison did not ask such questions to the Japanese, I absolutely absolutely declare this. The answer to the Englishman put into the mouth of the Japanese is nothing more than author's fiction. Balakin simply doubted, so he decided to back up his doubts with a reference to the Japanese.
        The report says exactly the way I have in the text, Hutchison simply wrote what the Japanese did and why (in order to avoid detonation, they raised part of the ammunition). He further writes that since there was not a single mine detonation, it was not possible to verify in practice this organizational measure.
        He also writes nothing about the fact that, perhaps, this was done to increase the rate of fire. I repeat, a reference to the alleged Japanese response to the alleged British question - bike. This is not in the original report.

        This is how myths are destroyed - only by searching for truth in the very roots of the sources Yes good
  4. ICT
    ICT 29 October 2016 08: 43
    +3
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    A modestly informative article.

    here, too, in parts (for the namesake, too, the minus was drawn slightly tightened turns out)

    . Part I.

    and comments are still hard to understand
  5. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 29 October 2016 09: 03
    +13
    I think it’s interesting good A plus!
    Against the background of cycles of articles by Andrei, who is from Chelyabinsk hi , this article seems unsuccessful to someone. But - delve into the Internet, sit in the archives, compose your monograph on a particular ship or type of ships. And on the topic of the battles of the RYA and the fleets of that era that has been raised recently, this material looks great. And the exhibit was chosen almost epoch-making - "Asama". I am personally interested in reading about the organization of service in the enemy fleet using the example of a single ship. And if you can also describe the fight on July 28 through the eyes of the Japanese, then this will generally be an excellent addition to the articles of Andrey from Chelyabinsk.
    Note to forum users: what is more interesting to read a dry statistical description or detailed material with details? Therefore, the concept of informativeness has its own smile
    Once again, an article plus hi
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 29 October 2016 09: 22
      +5
      or detailed material with details?

      I am for this ... it is in the details that the historical event is interesting ... it is the details that give us a complete picture of that era.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 29 October 2016 09: 44
        +4
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        the historical event is interesting in the details ... it is the details that give us a complete picture of that era.

        Absolutely right Yes Such materials are good because, to some extent, they provide answers to many questions. Especially in terms of the state of materiel (ships), because details often influenced the outcome of the battle. However, many "analysts" often operate with paper numbers, not real ones. winked And if something is even more or less known about our ships, then the Japanese side is of interest. And for an objective assessment of something, knowledge about two sides of the issue is needed. hi
    2. Mooh
      Mooh 29 October 2016 11: 25
      +2
      Of course, it’s interesting, especially since the view from the other side turns out, but the depth of the material development is depressing so far. Let's see what happens next.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 29 October 2016 11: 48
        +6
        I do not think so request Based on Japanese sources, the author showed the actions that were taken before the battle in terms of ensuring the combat effectiveness of the ship and leveling losses among the crew. He pointed to the condition of the ship’s materiel. In my opinion, here within the framework of the topic it was expressed quite convincingly Yes He pointed out some nuances of fire control. Everything is quite ordinary here. The same materials can be found for Russian ships at that time, therefore, for comparison, the material is good Yes
        You can, of course, begin to rummage around why the bunks and hammocks are hung like this, and not otherwise, why the horn is so short for the signalman, why there was such a division in the management of casemate guns, and not another. But then what will the camping material be like? wink To search for a speck in the prying eyes ?? request
        In the framework of the topic of this article, the material is presented quite convincingly, informatively and in the case. The essence is saved and I personally think that it is already necessary to judge by the full version of the description, and not based on the original part of the article hi
      2. Comrade
        30 October 2016 03: 46
        +4
        Quote: MooH
        the depth of the material is depressing.

        "I did [everything] that I could, let those who can do better."
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 30 October 2016 15: 06
          +2
          Quote: Comrade
          "I did [everything] that I could, let those who can do better."

          I agree with this postulate. But the best critics come from unsuccessful writers! wink
          Already do not demand - said what I think.
    3. Amurets
      Amurets 29 October 2016 12: 39
      +3
      Quote: Rurikovich
      I personally am interested in reading about the organization of service in the enemy fleet on the example of a single ship.

      I agree! My friend served on the Senyavin. When he saw my first edition of the book "Cruiser Varyag". R.M. Melnikov, the first thing that interested him was the life and life of the RIF sailors. And he sat and compared how the service was organized then and during the Soviet era.
      And the article did not like one, how and why the repair was carried out. It would not hurt a small introduction, such as who where when and why. The ship is extraordinary, but there are few materials on it.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 29 October 2016 15: 29
        +2
        Quote: Amurets
        It would not hurt a small introduction, such as who where when and why. The ship is extraordinary, but there are few materials on it.

        "Asama" was the "oldest" ship of the BrKr series of the Japanese fleet ("Chiyoda" does not count - this is a kind of experiment). At the time of entry into service it was about 6 years old from the moment of launching. And the overhaul of such a young ship is due to two reasons: either errors in design and construction, or operation "at the limit". And the wear of mechanisms during operation has not yet been canceled smile
        Although, if you look from the other side, the Japanese have very qualitatively approached the preparation of the fleet for war. Therefore there is nothing to be surprised request hi
        1. rjxtufh
          rjxtufh 30 October 2016 17: 58
          0
          Quote: Rurikovich
          At the time of entry into service, he was about 6 years old from the moment of launching.

          Well, why so substituted?
          Asama was launched on 22.03.1898. It is completed 18.03.1899/XNUMX/XNUMX. This is easily verifiable information.
          Quote: Rurikovich
          And the overhaul of such a young ship is due to two reasons: either errors in design and construction, or operation "at the limit".

          And most likely there was no major overhaul. Because "information" from a Comrade, he is of dubious origin in principle. And no other sources confirm it anymore.
          Most likely there were in-depth routine maintenance.
          1. Comrade
            30 October 2016 18: 35
            +2
            Quote: rjxtufh
            Because "information" from a Comrade, he is of dubious origin in principle. And no other sources confirm it.

            List these same "sources", I want to be convinced with my own eyes. Well, what have you got there? Spread it out.
          2. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 30 October 2016 19: 02
            0
            Quote: rjxtufh
            Well, why so substituted?
            Asama was launched on 22.03.1898. It is completed 18.03.1899/XNUMX/XNUMX. This is easily verifiable information.

            Well, why take words out of context like that? At the time of commissioning after renovation. Well, "about" 6 years doesn't mean six years wink It's about repairing the ship.
            And what, a bulkhead of mechanisms cannot be considered a repair? And since when can primary sources be of dubious origin? .... request
            1. rjxtufh
              rjxtufh 30 October 2016 23: 27
              0
              Quote: Rurikovich
              At the time of entry into service after repair. Capital.

              Yeah. It turns out there was some kind of repair. Yes, and capal.
              Get out further. Although, you are not doing well.
              Quote: Rurikovich
              And since when can primary sources be of dubious origin?

              Primary sources? Did you call Comrade like that? They made fun.
    4. Comrade
      30 October 2016 03: 42
      +3
      Thank you very much, dear Rurikovichfor kind words and support!
      Yes, only 686 words, but this text, which took forty-forty-five hours of painstaking work, does not pretend to be anything global. Translation and literary processing of the text takes up a lot of time, but now the reports of the English attaché, who was on Asam, are presented in full for all to see. Working with a Japanese source is a separate story, this is not even before, but a lesson, akin to decoding :-) During our discussion, the question of the speed of Asama often came up, colleagues traditionally look at Asama and others. To what was said in the text I will add that the speed shown was not the limit, in the English cardife "Asama" and over twenty knots gave with natural thrust.
      Quote: Rurikovich
      And even if you manage to describe the July 28 fight through the eyes of the Japanese,

      This will not be completely through the eyes of the Japanese; in the second and last part of my opus, the Englishman’s view of the course of the battle will be shown. To look at the battle through the eyes of the Japanese is for me personally tantalum labor. Without exaggeration, if you do not know Japanese, then you can safely put it on for several years.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 30 October 2016 09: 36
        +3
        Quote: Comrade
        Thank you very much, dear Rurikovich, for your kind words and support!

        You're welcome hi
        According to your sources, it is clear that you are approaching the writing of the material responsibly and the data given in this and subsequent articles is quite trustworthy, as the closest to the truth
        Quote: Comrade
        Translation and literary processing of the text takes up a lot of time, but now the reports of the English attaché, who was on Asam, are presented in full for all to see. Working with a Japanese source is a separate story, it's not even before, but a lesson, akin to decryption :-)

        Taking off my hat hi
        Quote: Comrade
        In the course of our discussion, the question of the speed of "Asama" often surfaced, colleagues traditionally look at "Asama" and others. To what was said in the text I will add that the speed shown was not the limit, in the English cardife "Asama" and over twenty knots gave with natural thrust.

        If the Japanese translated their directories and the data of the commission for the acceptance of the ship from the tests into Russian, then maybe they looked more there wink And you don’t have to especially choose and people use what, in their opinion, looks like a source trustworthy request Ordinary psychology ...
        Quote: Comrade
        This will not be completely through the eyes of the Japanese; in the second and last part of my opus, the Englishman’s view of the course of the battle will be shown.

        And this is generally gorgeous - a third-party view good
        Quote: Comrade
        To look at the battle through the eyes of the Japanese is for me personally tantalum labor. Without exaggeration, if you do not know Japanese, then you can safely put it on for several years.

        The end must justify the means. If you aspired to write a book, then then you would have to "suffer". And so, within the framework of the article, we already have enough of the information on which you put your work and nerves smile
        So we are waiting for the continuation drinks hi
  6. Fotoceva62
    Fotoceva62 29 October 2016 09: 22
    +9
    Normal and informative enough. The shells of the guns are from the extremely imperfect feed system and physical condition of the Japanese loaders compared to the Europeans. I was especially pleased with the fire control system of 6 "guns, that is, the Japanese did not have anything like the Geisler system? An interesting description of the protection against fragments.
    Having better artillery and a fire control system, the Russian fleet was not equipped with the necessary number of rangefinders, and most importantly they saved on combat training (Kudrins, Grefs, Medvedevs are apparently indestructible). We built ships (roads), but fools didn’t go anywhere! There were ships, but the Fleet was gone.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 29 October 2016 13: 08
      +4
      Quote: Fotoceva62

      3
      Fotoceva62 Today, 09:22 New
      Normal and quite informative. The shells of the guns are from an extremely imperfect supply system and the physical condition of the Japanese loaders in comparison with the Europeans.

      << For guidance in the towers used a hydraulic drive, as well as electrical and manual as spare. A distinctive feature of the weaponry was that a small part of the ammunition load - 62 rounds per gun - was stored in the towers, which served as gun magazines. The rest of the shells were in the cellars under the armored deck and were lifted up with the help of an elevator. In one cycle, the elevator could lift 2 charges or projectiles. The rate of fire of the guns was equal to 3 shots per minute and dropped sharply after the end of the shells in the towers. >>
      Pay attention to the feed system. And it was separate or shells, or charges.
  7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2016 10: 16
    +6
    Greetings, dear Valentine!
    Thank you so much for the information, but generally speaking it is not easy to interpret :)))) Balakin writes that Asama developed 13 hp in delivery. natural thrust and a speed of 000 knots with a displacement of 20,37 tons. Most likely, Balakin was corny wrong - it rarely happens that a ship having a planned 9778 thousand hp on tests exactly the same. But he also indicates 13 thousand and 14 knots for Tokiva (without indicating displacement in tests, alas)
    Hence the great oddity - why, with 14 kiloponi, Asama shows only 19,5 knots? Coal quality? It has nothing to do with it, because affects the power of cars, and the power is the same as in the acceptance tests even higher.
    It remains only to assume that on the acceptance tests, the Japanese were dusted in the eyes - or the ships were underloaded, or mocked with power.
    The second question - if Asama after the kapitalka gave 19,5 bonds on natural draft, then what happened to the other cruisers that did not pass kapitalki?
    Thanks again - extremely rich information for consideration
    1. Mooh
      Mooh 29 October 2016 11: 29
      +2
      Maybe kapitalka was without docking? Sifted cars at the wall, but did not clean the bottom?
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2016 13: 21
        +2
        Quote: MooH
        Maybe kapitalka was without docking?

        Of course, this option can not be discounted, but then I can not really imagine how they changed the bearings on the shafts.
      2. Comrade
        30 October 2016 04: 26
        +3
        Quote: MooH
        Maybe kapitalka was without docking? Sifted cars at the wall, but did not clean the bottom?

        They put in the dock 20 December 1903 g., Brought out of the dock 26 December. I do not know the exact information, but I believe that the bottom was cleaned.
    2. Amurets
      Amurets 29 October 2016 13: 17
      +2
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      It remains only to assume that on the acceptance tests, the Japanese were dusted in the eyes - or the ships were underloaded, or mocked with power.

      Notice how the Varyag, Tsarevich, Retvizan surrendered. The builders kept in the staff of "Circus" specially trained boiler-machine teams, whose task was to squeeze out the maximum speed of the ship during acceptance tests.
      1. rjxtufh
        rjxtufh 30 October 2016 18: 27
        0
        Quote: Amurets
        The builders kept in the staff of "Circus" specially trained boiler-machine teams, whose task was to squeeze out the maximum speed of the ship during acceptance tests.

        Ordinary professionals. Of course, the Russian conscripts were far from them in terms of professionalism. That's the whole "circus".
        1. Comrade
          30 October 2016 18: 36
          0
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Of course, Russian conscripts in terms of professionalism were far from them.

          It starts ..
    3. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 29 October 2016 15: 44
      +1
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      what happened to the rest of the cruisers that didn’t pass?

      Um ... Not the fact that they needed such repairs. wink In order to find out, you need to know how many, for example, by December 1903, thousands of nautical miles have passed each of the six Japanese BrKr separately. Then it will become clear how worn out the cars were and whether the boilers needed repair. This is assuming that the build quality was the same for everyone. After all, again, you need to know the reasons that served as a major overhaul of "Asama" at that time request Maybe Asama needed such a repair, but Yakumo or Azuma did not need it ... what
      Here you need to dig deeper .... feel
      1. 27091965
        27091965 29 October 2016 17: 58
        +1
        Quote: Rurikovich
        After all, again, you need to know the reasons that served as a major overhaul of "Asama" at that time




        The Japanese studied the features of their ships in practice, so they needed repairs. It is clear that they had better training for sailors
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 29 October 2016 19: 21
          0
          Quote: 27091965i



          The Japanese studied the features of their ships in practice, so they needed repairs. It is clear that they had better training for sailors

          All or only the best? Or every year a new squad of other ships was compiled? And why then do training ships exist? what
          1. 27091965
            27091965 29 October 2016 20: 46
            0
            Quote: Rurikovich
            And why then do training ships exist?


            In addition to the practical squadron, there were a training artillery detachment, a detachment for training machinists and stokers, a detachment for training new recruits, a ship also stood out for the pupils of the Marine Corps.


            Quote: Rurikovich
            Or every year a new squad of other ships was compiled


            Prior to the introduction of new ships and the beginning of the development of tactical squadron combat tactics for the Japanese fleet.
            1. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 29 October 2016 20: 58
              0
              Quote: 27091965i
              In addition to the practical squadron, there were a training artillery detachment, a detachment for training machinists and stokers, a detachment for training new recruits, a ship also stood out for the pupils of the Marine Corps.

              Igor, are we talking about the Japanese or the Russians? More specific please hi
              Quote: 27091965i
              Prior to the introduction of new ships and the beginning of the development of tactical squadron combat tactics for the Japanese fleet.

              So the Japanese trained on new ships, which led to the overhaul of a virtually new ship before the war? It turns out that they mercilessly exploited warships before the actually planned war?
              1. 27091965
                27091965 29 October 2016 21: 10
                +1
                Quote: Rurikovich
                Igor, are we talking about the Japanese or the Russians?


                Japanese.

                Quote: Rurikovich
                It turns out that they mercilessly exploited warships before the actually planned war?


                Yes, they practiced the interaction of all ships, new and old, the most interesting thing is that all this is described in publications issued from 1897 to 1904 in Russia. They knew very well who would have to fight, but they didn’t take any serious measures.
                1. Rurikovich
                  Rurikovich 29 October 2016 21: 28
                  0
                  Quote: 27091965i
                  They knew very well who would have to fight, but they didn’t take any serious measures.

                  Same thing smile Then do not have to be surprised overhauls of actually new ships request And here the questions are more likely to our admirals and economists, who cut off the combat training of the fleet before a real war and the mismatch of the material and technical base with the requirements of the fleet in the Far East request
    4. Comrade
      30 October 2016 04: 12
      +1
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Balakin writes that Asama at the surrender developed 13 000 hp natural thrust and speed of 20,37 knots with a displacement of 9778 t. Most likely, Balakin was corny wrong - it rarely happens that a ship with planned 13 thousand hp on tests exactly the same.

      If a mistake has crept in here, then it's hard to blame Balakin. Obviously, this is from a pre-revolutionary source, most likely taken from the "Marine collection". And they, in turn, got information from some English edition. In general, there are no ends here.
      The information given in the work will be supplemented by data on acceptance tests. This is the official Japanese data for internal use. Balakin speaks of speed on natural traction, and with forced traction, displacement of 9 885 tons, the cruiser developed the 22,1 unit. English coal, Cardiff. Consumption 1,238 kg. / 1 l. with. per hour, achieved power 18 277 l. sec., 154,5 rpm
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      The second question - if Asama after the kapitalka gave 19,5 bonds on natural draft, then what happened to the other cruisers that did not pass kapitalki?

      I am not ready to give an immediate answer, because I was not interested. The speed of "Asama" never interested me either, but after the statement of "Passer" that it was the fastest armored cruiser of the Japanese. Let me, I think, I'll see what "Asama" had there? Then he looked through the English reports, so the idea came to write a note on the topic of what speed "Asama" had
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Thanks again - extremely rich information for consideration

      Not at all, dear Andrey :-)
      1. rjxtufh
        rjxtufh 30 October 2016 18: 53
        0
        Quote: Comrade
        Balakin speaks of speed on natural traction, and with forced traction, a displacement of 9 tons, the cruiser developed 885 knots. English coal, Cardiff. Consumption 22,1 kg./ 1,238 liter. with. per hour, achieved a capacity of 1 18 liters. S., 277 rpm.

        No, how much can you? Do you have a conscience?
        Why are you rewriting deliberate nonsense?
        Well, Asama would not go for 18277 bhp. (13443 kW) 22,07 (that is how much he gave when blowing) the unit. For no haircuts. For speed, it is not taken from heaven. And at this power, he walked 20,37 knots. On the tests. And even a little more, in more favorable conditions of swimming.
        He was tested and gave 22,07 knots. On the blow. With a power of ~ 22755 hp (16737 kW).
        And then they write nonsense, they don’t even blink an eye. With a smart look and completely peremptory. A striking misunderstanding of what they write. Soon their ships will go without cars at all.
        In general, one should be more careful with capacities in Soviet sources. Often there kilowatts are simply equated to hp. Here is just 1 to 1.
        Quote: Comrade
        and interested after the statement of "Passer" that it was the fastest armored cruiser of the Japanese.

        I don’t know what your opponent said there, but the fastest among BrKR among the Japanese was Azuma.
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 30 October 2016 19: 28
          0
          Quote: rjxtufh
          I don’t know what your opponent said there, but the fastest among BrKR among the Japanese was Azuma.

          "Azumu" even the Japanese themselves recognize the most unsuccessful ship of the entire six winked Therefore, you have it the best and fastest wassat
          1. rjxtufh
            rjxtufh 30 October 2016 23: 10
            0
            Quote: Rurikovich
            "Azumu" even the Japanese themselves recognize the most unsuccessful ship of the entire six

            I won’t be surprised if you have any help from them about this. With a stamp.
            In RuNet not yet such tricks happen.
    5. rjxtufh
      rjxtufh 30 October 2016 18: 25
      0
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Hence the great oddity - why, with 14 kiloponi, Asama shows only 19,5 knots? Coal quality?

      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      It remains only to assume that on the acceptance tests, the Japanese were dusted in the eyes - or the ships were underloaded, or mocked with power.

      Quote: Comrade
      If there was a mistake crept in, then it’s difficult to blame Balakin.

      Quote: Comrade
      I’m not ready to give an answer right away, because I was not interested.

      There is one strange pattern of life. When you look at a book that says things you don’t understand, you usually see a fig.
      This is exactly the same as the "couple from Chelyabinsk."
      Patsanva, in the world there is some, and even a considerable, number of strange countries. They measure distance in miles. Temperature in Faringates. And power in kilowatts.
      If you were at least slightly in the subject, you would easily understand that 13 and 14 thousand, this is in kilowatts. Those. 17675 and 19034 h.p. respectively. And with such power, the indicated speeds are achievable in principle.
      By the way, Asama in the tests developed a power of 13443 kW or 18277 hp. And already at this power, he reached a speed of 20,37 knots. Nevertheless, the correction coefficient. he did not have 1.0.
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      The second question - if Asama after the kapitalka gave 19,5 bonds on natural draft, then what happened to the other cruisers that did not pass kapitalki?

      What is the capital? Asame, the oldest Japanese BrKR, in the spring of 1904. it was only 5 years old. What capital can be even for him?
      Come up with fucking "facts". And let's procrastinate them. If only to scratch with tongues.
  8. Bormanxnumx
    Bormanxnumx 29 October 2016 15: 13
    0
    Quote: Amurets
    A distinctive feature of the armament was that a small part of the ammunition — 62 shells per gun — was stored in towers that served as gun cellars. The rest of the shells were in the cellars under the armored deck and went upstairs using the elevator. In one cycle, the elevator could pick up 2 charges or shells. The rate of fire of the guns was 3 shots per minute and fell sharply after the end of the shells in the towers.

    Asama had 80 8 "rounds per barrel. It turns out that most of the ammunition was in the turret, and powder charges were supplied from the cellars, which to keep directly in the turret is akin to suicide.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 30 October 2016 00: 53
      +1
      Quote: BORMAN82
      Asama had 80 8 "rounds per barrel. It turns out that most of the ammunition was in the turret, and powder charges were supplied from the cellars, which to keep directly in the turret is akin to suicide.

      Like shells equipped with picric acid. In the case of contact of picric acid, picrate salts of picric acid were formed, which in sensitivity were in no way inferior to nitroglycerin. Http: //igor-grek.com/publ/veshhi/v
      zryvchatka_pikrinovaja_kislota / 6-1-0-156
      The French came up with the name "Melinite", but rather quickly under a variety of names - "Melinite", "Liddite", "Perthite", "Picrite" and so on - picric acid was adopted by all the armies of the world. And also "Shimoza", under this name, melinite was used in the Japanese armed forces.
  9. Bormanxnumx
    Bormanxnumx 29 October 2016 16: 41
    +1
    An interesting point regarding the rate of fire of 8 "guns, which was initially up to 3 rounds per minute per barrel with a drop of up to 0.7 rounds per minute when the shells are used up in the turret. For such guns (British 8" / 45 (20.3 cm) EOC Patterns S , U, U1 and W developed by Armstrong Whitworth & Co.) installed in twin turrets on armored cruisers of the Giuseppe Garibaldi class, the rate of fire was up to 2 rounds per barrel. It turns out that the idea of ​​the Japanese was not entirely bad - the ability to release more than two-thirds of the ammunition with a rate of fire one and a half times higher than that of the opponents.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2016 18: 21
      +1
      Quote: BORMAN82
      It turns out that the idea of ​​the Japanese was not quite bad

      Totally bad.
      Quote: BORMAN82
      An interesting point regarding the rate of fire of 8 "guns, which was initially up to 3 rounds per minute per barrel with a drop to 0.7 rounds per minute

      In this case, the rate of fire is a fiction of pure water, since Japanese ships NEVER showed a rate of fire that was somewhat comparable to the table. for example, Nissin and Kasuga in the Yellow Sea fired 307 203 mm shells, this is only 51 shells per gun or (at a rate of 2 rounds / min) a reserve of 25 minutes of battle. With Asamoids - Same Picture
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 29 October 2016 18: 35
        0
        In fact, rate of fire is a subjective concept. On paper, everything can be a chinar order, but in real life it’s completely different. Here I completely agree with you hi This is when, for example, to put against each other a board on 15-20 cables of opponents and force them to shoot at each other, then it is also possible due to a higher rate of fire after a certain time to win ... wassat And when at a great distance, and even with the adjustment of fire, and even with different turns, then what kind of rate of fire can be discussed request Here the main role is played by fire control Yes
        So, personally, I consider the rate of fire to be a subjective quantity rather than an objective one. But the training of the crew, the supply of ammunition, and even the pressure of the enemy’s fire are still not the last words request hi
        1. rjxtufh
          rjxtufh 30 October 2016 18: 55
          0
          Quote: Rurikovich
          In fact, rate of fire is a subjective concept.

          M-yes.
      2. rjxtufh
        rjxtufh 30 October 2016 18: 55
        0
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        for example, Nissin and Kasuga in the Yellow Sea fired 307 203 mm shells, this is only 51 shells per gun or (at a rate of 2 rounds / min) a reserve of 25 minutes of battle. With Asamoids - Same Picture

        And imagine that there were times when they simply had nowhere to shoot, weak?
  10. Bormanxnumx
    Bormanxnumx 29 October 2016 20: 10
    +1
    Regarding the rate of fire - let's "fly separately, and cutlets separately." There is a concept of a technical rate of fire, in relation to an artillery gun, it is expressed by the number of rounds per minute that the gun produces without taking into account any manipulations with changing the aiming. That is, it is determined by the cycle of the mechanisms (opening-closing the gun lock and the operation of the mechanism for feeding and sending shells) and the calculation of the gun mount. The combat rate of fire consists of the operating time of the mechanisms, the calculation of the gun mount, the flight time of the projectile (if zeroing is in progress), the preparation and transmission of the initial data for firing, the adjustment of the sight plus and the firing conditions (possible influence of extraneous factors, smoke, gas contamination with powder gases, etc. It is clear that combat (practical)
    rate of fire is always lower than technical and you do not need to mix these two concepts together.
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 29 October 2016 20: 16
      0
      Agree good
      Only the whole point is that many in their evidence or assumptions, calculations operate on paper (technical) rate of fire, and not real combat, which is calculated not only by your points, but most likely as a result of analysis after the battle based on the time of the battle and the remainder in cellars hi
      That's why fuss Yes
      PS And for yourself, why did you bring the technical rate of fire in the context of placing ammunition in the towers wink ? (16:41)
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2016 21: 35
      +1
      Quote: BORMAN82
      Regarding the rate of fire - let's "flies separately, and cutlets separately"

      What I highly appreciate in you is the ability to put yourself on your shoulder blades in two comments.
      You write in one comment:
      Quote: BORMAN82
      It turns out that the idea of ​​the Japanese was not entirely bad - the ability to release more than two-thirds of the ammunition with a rate of one and a half times greater than that of opponents.

      And when I slightly hinted to you that the tabular rate of fire, from which you derive the one and a half superiority of the Asamoid towers and practical rate of fire, are two huge differences, you immediately remembered that
      Quote: BORMAN82
      It’s clear that combat (practical)
      rate of fire is always lower than technical and you do not need to mix these two concepts together.

      Well, do not bother them in a bunch. And consider, at least approximately and simplistically, how much one and a half times superiority in the TECHNICAL rate of fire will affect the PRACTICAL rate of fire in this particular case.
      I’ll even tell you - in contrast to the modernized 305-mm guns of Russian battleships - almost no matter how much. Do you know why? wink
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 29 October 2016 21: 43
        0
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Do you know why? wink

        Wait for an answer? winked
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 October 2016 17: 16
          +1
          Did not wait :))) And the answer, in fact, is very simple.
          The fact is that the firing cycle of 203 mm guns in those years necessarily included the expectation of a projectile falling, determining the adjustment of the sight, the adjustment itself, equalizing the effect of pitching, etc. Those. a large-caliber gun could not shoot faster than once every 30-40 seconds, even in the most optimistic-ideal case. Accordingly, regardless of whether he had a rate of 2 rounds of mines or 3 rounds of mines, this did not affect the practical rate of fire.
          Another thing is domestic EBRs with their 305-mm. After Tsushima, taking into account the increased ranges, it was no longer possible to shoot from twelve-inch shooters, having previously targeted six-inch shots. Now the 305-mm themselves were being targeted, so the 305-mm had to be provided with a technical rate of fire at least at the level of a shot of 40 seconds - otherwise the zeroing speed suffered, because the reload cycle was longer than the "correction cycle" after the shot
  11. Bormanxnumx
    Bormanxnumx 29 October 2016 20: 18
    0
    Quote: Rurikovich
    In this case, the rate of fire is a fiction of pure water, since Japanese ships NEVER showed a rate of fire that was somewhat comparable to the table. for example, Nissin and Kasuga in the Yellow Sea fired 307 203 mm shells, this is only 51 shells per gun or (at a rate of 2 rounds / min) a reserve of 25 minutes of battle. With Asamoids - Same Picture

    Can you tell me at least one ship that, in combat conditions, "showed a rate of fire, somewhat comparable to the table"?
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 29 October 2016 20: 27
      +1
      In this case, this is a comment by Andrey from Chelyabinsk - you need to be more precise in quoting wink- 18:21
      Secondly, he asks a question about the discrepancy between the technical rate of fire for papers and the actual consumption of shells during the battle hi Therefore, we return to the fact that technical rate of fire is a subjective concept in battle and can be neglected. wink smile The percentage of hits is much more objective, which does not depend on rate of fire, but on the quality of fire control ... Yes
      PS Yes! There is such a ship !! fellow This is a rank 1 cruiser "Varyag"! After all, if you believe the official data, then the guns at that time were completely Arnold Schwarzeneggers! wassat If only the guns did not have a tape feed .... winked
      1. Bormanxnumx
        Bormanxnumx 29 October 2016 20: 51
        0
        Quote: Rurikovich
        And for yourself, why did you bring the technical rate of fire in the context of placing ammunition in the towers?

        Because, the projectile delivery time affects both technical and combat rate of fire - somewhere in a greater, somewhere less.
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 29 October 2016 21: 09
          +2
          Quote: BORMAN82
          Because the projectile delivery time affects both technical and combat rate of fire.

          Well, you know, it’s easier to release all the available ammunition into the air and report on the outstanding results of the rate of fire than to inflict tangible damage to the enemy in the same unit of time lol You yourself indicated the differences in technical rate of fire and combat wink request It turns out that the real threat comes from the "Nissin" in your understanding in the first 20 minutes of the battle, when he releases ammunition placed in the turret with an amazing rate of fire? But then it turns out that after 20 minutes of battle, the ship becomes virtually defenseless. because the supply from the cellars is several times less than the technical rate of fire of the guns ... It seems to me personally that the Japanese (English) manner of placing shells in the towers is in no way conditioned by thoughts about the rate of fire, but most likely by convenience, which seems to be rational and even the same rate of fire at the beginning of the battle ... And who told you that a fight can last 20 minutes. For me, it's better to shoot less often, but more accurately and for a long time, than to try to resolve the issue in 20 minutes wink
  12. Bormanxnumx
    Bormanxnumx 29 October 2016 20: 38
    0
    Quote: Rurikovich
    So, personally, I consider the rate of fire to be a subjective quantity rather than an objective one.

    According to your logic, it turns out that, for example, replacing the locks on 12 "guns of the battleship" Andrew the First-Called "together with the use of automatic charging trays, which made it possible to increase the technical rate of fire from 0,5-0,75 to 1,2-1,5 rounds per minute. Also in vain after RYAV on the "Retvizan" they mused with the installation of an electric shutter drive of a 12 "gun, which reduced the opening / closing cycle by THREE times - does it not particularly affect?
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 29 October 2016 20: 48
      0
      Are we talking about the REV or about the ships that went into operation after the REV after analyzing errors and taking into account combat experience? wink So let's generally operate with the lessons of the PMV with its central aiming and volley shooting hi
      The "Andrew the First-Called" you mentioned has already entered service, taking into account the shortcomings identified as a result of the analysis of the battles of the RYA and the opinions of people who took part in the war wink
    2. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 29 October 2016 20: 54
      0
      Quote: BORMAN82
      Also in vain after the RYAV on the "Retvizan" they mused with the installation of an electric shutter drive of the 12 "gun, which shortened the opening / closing cycle by THREE times - does it have any particular effect?

      So "Retvizan" after the RYAV flock in Japanese and bore the name "Hizen" belay
      1. Bormanxnumx
        Bormanxnumx 29 October 2016 21: 09
        0
        So "Retvizan" after the RYAV flock in Japanese and bore the name "Hizen"

        With the "Retvizan" I got a little trouble (cited as an example of the fact that with a manual shutter actuator on Retvizan they opened the shutter 20s.), The electric actuator was mounted on “our” remaining battleships.
        The "Andrew the First-Called" you mentioned has already entered service, taking into account the shortcomings identified as a result of the analysis of the battles of the RYA and the opinions of people who took part in the war

        So they found out that the low TECHNICAL rate of fire due to the slow operation of the mechanisms affects the BATTLE rate of fire and decided to "finish".
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 29 October 2016 21: 22
          0
          Quote: BORMAN82
          So they found out that the low TECHNICAL rate of fire due to the slow operation of the mechanisms affects the BATTLE rate of fire and decided to "finish"

          Also, analyzes were carried out regarding the protection of ships and the composition of artillery on them. hi Also, ideas on centralized fire control and combat training of crews were implemented. As they say - until the thunder strikes, the man will not cross himself. BUT! The understanding came in relation to the control of fire, rather than to ensuring rate of fire, for achieving combat rate of fire to the technical parameters came through modernization of the artillery systems themselves, but in conjunction with fire control! Therefore, thoughts were more about increasing the percentage of hits that are affected by the control of fire after ensuring the technical rate of fire. By the way, it is achieved by combat training and well-functioning work of mechanisms and crew (supply of ammunition, work in towers, casemates, on deck) hi
    3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 October 2016 21: 38
      0
      Quote: BORMAN82
      According to your logic, it turns out that, for example, replacing the locks on 12 "guns of the battleship" Andrew the First-Called "together with the use of automatic charging trays, which made it possible to increase the technical rate of fire from 0,5-0,75 to 1,2-1,5 rounds per minute. in vain - not useful

      I answered you above. Nevertheless, try to figure out on your own why the modernization of the post-Tsushima EDB turned out to be archaic and increased the combat rate of fire of our ships, but the difference between 2 rounds of Nissin rpm and 3 rounds of Asama mines is practically unaffected
  13. Retvizan
    Retvizan 29 October 2016 22: 41
    +1
    complement
    range finder of the Barr and Stroud company

    2 rangefinders 1,37 m (4,5 ft) Barr & Stroud FA2 (i.e. version worse than FA 3)
    Back in 1899, the British fleet conducted the first tests of a long-range artillery gun (striking 5,5 km), using new developments, and achieved 80% accuracy with a distance of 1,4 km. The British company Barr & Stroud (Scotland, Glasgow) developed the rangefinder FA2 in 1901, and its new modification - FA3 - in 1903; the first foreign buyers of these rangefinders were the Japanese. They very quickly adopted new British developments and methods, which dramatically increased the effectiveness of their naval artillery. All Japanese battleships were equipped with four Barr & Stroud RAZ rangefinders, which gave high accuracy of fire at a distance of 7,3 km, although they had a rather large error. Japanese armadillos were also equipped with 24-fold telescopic sighting devices of the 1903 model. Russian ships were much worse equipped with British equipment, which greatly impeded the development of their naval artillery. At the beginning of the war in 1904, the Retvizan and Tsesarevich had one Barr & Stroud FA2 rangefinder, and the Borodino class armadillos later received one Barr & Stroud FA3 rangefinder. Moreover, none of the battleships of the 1st Pacific Squadron had telescopic sights.
    With rangefinders, Asama was worse than the EDB of the main detachment of Togo. (Previous version) but overall much better than the Russians. (Although 1 TOE was not much inferior)
    1. Comrade
      30 October 2016 04: 30
      0
      Quote: Retvizan
      the Borodino class battleships later received one Barr & Stroud FA3 rangefinder.

      In two.
  14. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 30 October 2016 00: 23
    +1
    You know how one comrade wrote about the OJ war, it feels like the whole war was directed by a Japanese writer in the genre of Alternative History! Everything that could go badly went bad for us! And for the Japanese, exactly the opposite! Well, on the topic, so Asama at that time was one of the armored cruisers in the world !!!!
  15. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 30 October 2016 00: 25
    +1
    Zadolbala Klava on the tablet! Asma was one of the best armored cruisers in the world!
  16. Comrade
    30 October 2016 03: 53
    +1
    Quote: Amurets
    And the article did not like one, how and why the repair was carried out. It would not hurt a small introduction, such as who where when and why.

    Dear colleague, I fully share your criticism of my note, but the fact is that this information is taken from a Japanese source (see the end of the text). And not just a source, but an Appendix to the "Ships and Ships" section, where the main facts are given dryly and concisely. And how "Asama" came to such a life that it took two major repairs, the "Top Secret History of the Russian-Japanese War" does not say. Since, this information does not apply to the war. The Japanese simply wrote what the characteristics of their ships were, but why this happened, you need to look at other sources. Perhaps it is in the Japanese archives on paper it is. But electronically on jakar - https://www.jacar.go.jp/ - This is most likely not. Here you need to look for the history of the service, I think if the documents did not disappear during the Second World War, then this is only in Japan, there is no Internet yet.
  17. rjxtufh
    rjxtufh 30 October 2016 17: 52
    0
    Quote: Valentin Maltsev
    In May-June 1903, at the Asama armored cruiser delivered to the dock of the naval arsenal in Kura, the power plant was repaired and the worn-out components and mechanisms were replaced.

    What can be expected from the "scribble" (well, do not write the same "article" in fact), which begins with such nonsense?
    In 1903 cruiser Asam was 4 (four) years old. And this cruiser was from Armstrong. Those. from the COOLEST manufacturer of similar equipment in those days.
    Even the ships built at Russian shipyards and from Russian components (i.e. slop), after 4 years during normal operation did not need any serious repairs. Because they were considered "practically new."
    No, there were such cases in the RIF. And a lot. Suffice it to recall the Varangian. Or so-called overexposure (except in fact overexposure). But I don’t believe about Asama. Did the British “observers” just cool there? And the Japanese nation is marine, they live on the islands. Familiar to ship engines. Specialists in civilian life was full. Therefore, the Navy should not have experienced personnel problems.
    Quote: Valentin Maltsev
    However, in the subsequent trials that followed, a number of new malfunctions of the mechanisms of the main power plant appeared.

    It seems that not only do the "authors from Chelyabinsk" stuff us with "passions of runet", so now some Comrades (also "from Chelyabinsk) will probably begin to stuff with passions of" anglonet "and" franconet ".
    Something even on Russian ships (Poltava and Petropavlovsk) British cars worked exemplary. But on British ships, they did not want to. Oh well.
    Quote: Valentin Maltsev
    all air ducts, firebox refractory bricks, water pipes, and bearings on the lines of the main shafts were replaced.

    It’s easy to believe in little things. But in the shaft bearings, not really. I repeat once again for "afftars from Chelyabinsk" from all countries of the world - Asama was from Armstrong. And he was 4 years old. With a confidence of 99 percent, normal operation. ALL. Then you can not fantasize.
    For reference, usually the average repair of the ship was carried out on average after 7-8 years of its operation. But as well. For ships from a good manufacturer and with loose operation, this repair could be 1-2 years later. And from cheap and driven, 1-2 years earlier.
    Of the exceptions, one can only recall that the Varangian, whom the “dashing exploiters” had crushed (and even then, far from completely) very quickly. The Japanese, along with British instructors, are not similar in this case. Apparently, the author confused in-depth maintenance of the ship with its repair. He simply added the phrase "a series of new malfunctions of the mechanisms of the main power plant appeared in the trials that followed then." And thereby issued a "sensation."
    Quote: Valentin Maltsev
    with natural traction and power mechanisms developed 14 liters. with. 021 knot

    19,59 knots, to be exact. With a little more urine and a little less displacement. But this is not the point; 0,09 nodes do not matter. Really Comrade got to the bottom of my sources, painfully the numbers are similar? It’s a pity, it’s always nice to have exclusive information alone. Or did I rewrite it?

    All further "information" is clearly copied from an anglet or franconet. It may be true, false, or partially true. Precisely to science it is not known. And this "information" has no applied value.
    Those. "Scribble" is actually about nothing.
    1. Comrade
      30 October 2016 18: 40
      +1
      Quote: rjxtufh
      What can be expected from the "scribble" (well, do not write the same "article" in fact), which begins with such nonsense?

      Another colina clowning.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 October 2016 21: 47
        +2
        ABOUT! But I’m already bored. Dear Valentine, why are you again tearing the template to Kolya again with a bang? :))) After all, Kolya knows firmly:
        Quote: rjxtufh
        In 1903 cruiser Asam was 4 (four) years old. And this cruiser was from Armstrong. Those. from the COOLEST manufacturer of similar equipment in those days.
        Even the ships built at Russian shipyards and from Russian components (i.e., sloppy), after 4 years during normal operation did not need any serious repairs.

        He even knows that
        Quote: rjxtufh
        even on Russian ships (Poltava and Petropavlovsk) British cars worked exemplary

        You just don't tell him that the "exemplary" Poltava on the Nagasaki-Arthur race in 1902 had an average speed somewhere between 13 and 14 knots. And that Petropavlovsk, which, generally speaking, entered service in 1899, the car was capitalized already in 1902 (with a change of the cylinder).
        And then again there will be an explosion with a spray of unformed thoughts all over the Russian Internet :)))
        1. Comrade
          30 October 2016 22: 08
          +2
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          ABOUT! But I’m already bored.

          Confess, and so do I.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Why are you again tearing the template to Kolya with a bang ?:

          And I want to see how he starts to tumble with screams in the arena.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          After all, Kolya knows firmly:

          Exactly, you brought a quote to Kolkin to the place.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 October 2016 22: 20
            +2
            Quote: Comrade
            And I want to see how he begins to tumble with screams in the arena

            He exploded in the topic of "Peresvet" with as many as two dozen comments. I dashed off an analysis of my article, probably even more than the whole article, whether by 4 or 5 comments "cosmic scales and cosmic ..." :)))) I laughed, but did not read, because Kolya is overly inclined to self-citation of a new thought from him you will not hear, so I can imagine the content well enough.
            By the way, the second part of "Peresvetov" on Monday should be on the main page. I feel it will be fun :))))
            1. rjxtufh
              rjxtufh 30 October 2016 23: 23
              0
              Quote: Comrade
              ...

              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              ...

              At the arena all the same.
            2. Comrade
              31 October 2016 00: 53
              +2
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              I laughed, but did not read, because Kolya is overly inclined to self-citing a new thought from him you will not hear, so that the content and so I can imagine quite well.

              You know, lately I catch myself thinking that without these eccentrics, life would be fresh. Although, of course, everything is good in moderation.
              It is a pity that no more "minuses" can be set, I wonder what would be Kolya's next anti-record?
    2. 27091965
      27091965 30 October 2016 19: 40
      0
      Quote: rjxtufh
      It’s a pity, it’s always nice to have exclusive information alone.


      If you possess such exclusive information, then Lieutenant Commander Jamaiah Tanin I think you know. It is directly related to the deterioration of the ships of the Japanese Navy.
      1. rjxtufh
        rjxtufh 30 October 2016 23: 05
        0
        Quote: 27091965i
        Lieutenant Commander Jamaiah Tanin I think you know. It is directly related to the deterioration of the ships of the Japanese Navy.

        Our spy? Did he put dynamite in coal? Or fecal matter?
        Quote: 27091965i
        If you possess such exclusive information

        Not on all topics, of course.
        1. 27091965
          27091965 30 October 2016 23: 37
          +1
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Our spy? Did he put dynamite in coal? Or fecal matter?


          I do not laugh at you, he (Jamaia Tanin) developed tactics for conducting combat for the Japanese fleet at different speeds of the movement of ships, from medium to full, and tested it on a practical squadron.
          1. rjxtufh
            rjxtufh 30 October 2016 23: 45
            0
            Quote: 27091965i
            he (Jamaiah Tanin) developed tactics of warfare for the Japanese fleet at different speeds of the movement of ships, from medium to full, and tested it on a practical squadron.

            And I don’t laugh either.
            The fact is that ships are devices that seem to be required to move. Those. walk in the sea jargon. And in places even in full swing. And from this they are not doing very badly. At least, if you do not drive them in the tail and mane, then in the first 7-8 years. And then for an average repair with modernization, and again in operation. For the same 7-8 years.
            And then on to kapitalku. And somewhere in the support staff.
            And then only 4 years "branded product", and nakosya, a certain Comrade found some kind of capital. And VO amicably began to "discuss the sensation." Which was not and could not be.
      2. Comrade
        31 October 2016 00: 58
        +2
        Quote: 27091965i
        If you possess such exclusive information

        Yes, he has nothing, he lies and bluffs as usual.
    3. Comrade
      31 October 2016 01: 41
      +2
      Quote: rjxtufh
      9,59 nodes, more precisely. With a little more urine and a little less displacement.

      Lying again, Nikolai. I give a thousand American dollars for the fact that you provide proof of your words. A screenshot from a book or a document with a direct link on the Internet. If you have this in paper form, give a photo of the page and cover of the book. See how easy it is to get good money? Total and business is that to answer for your words.
      1. rjxtufh
        rjxtufh 31 October 2016 10: 27
        0
        Quote: Comrade
        Lying again, Nikolai

        Have you and Nikolai stuck? However, not only with Nikolai, as I look.
        Quote: Comrade
        I give a thousand American dollars

        Help the poor and the wretched. Once so rich.