Russia and India have settled controversial issues regarding the joint production of export PAK FA

Moscow and New Delhi reached an understanding on controversial issues that arose during the implementation of a joint project to develop and manufacture the 5 generation FGFA fighter, reports Look with reference to the commander-in-chief of the Indian Air Force, Arupa Rahu.

Previously, “India had questions about the total cost of the project, as well as technology transfer,” explained Raha.

Russia and India resumed negotiations on the FGFA project in February of this year. In particular, it was decided to reduce the total cost of development by 40% - to $ 4 billion from each side.

In August, it was reported about the completion of the first stage of the Development - draft technical work. Then the media reported on the parties agreeing on details of the future joint production of a promising fighter.

Help newspaper: “FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) is an export version of the Russian fighter of the 5 generation PAK (T-50). This project is part of the Make in India policy of the current Indian government. From the Russian side, the aircraft developer is the Sukhoi Design Bureau, and from the Indian side, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. ”

Comments

[The black]

Is it possible that the Russian-Pakistani teachings have so badly affected?

[cniza]

India is not a very easy partner, but necessary.

[DIMA45R]

Explain why this is necessary? It’s clear that money, but it’s about development. We will once again develop what we have already developed with minor changes, only in a truncated version, and India will be present and will learn for the money.

[Alex777]

Quote: DIMA45R

.... and India will attend and learn for the money.

This is the point: for the money.
Nobody buys the "final product" in large quantities anymore.
Everyone is trying to learn. True, not all and not all succeed.

[Stas157]

The Indians are smart-ass, broke off at a price of almost two, and waited until the Russian aircraft brought to the state test! What is there to develop further? (Roughly! The basic work has already been done) Is it possible to redo the local version only in two. So they insured themselves against the risks of a long finish-up of the aircraft and investing additional funds for this. This time they are allocating money for an already completed aircraft with the second stage engine!
I hope that Russia will beat off its penny on a long series of aircraft, which the Indians will order.

[Wiruz]

What is there to develop next?

No, the filling of our PAK FA will be more powerful, moreover, FGFA has a share of Indian technologies. FGFA itself hasn’t even flown yet, and maybe it’s not even been assembled.

[zyablik.olga]

Quote: Wiruz

No, the filling of our PAK FA will be more powerful, besides, the FGFA has a share of Indian technologies.

In any case, the elemental base of the avionics of the Russian 5 generation fighter will be partially Indian. At Su-35, the imported components in the e-filling exceed 25%.

[Zaurbek]

... and Indians are unlikely to produce engines.

[INTA_VEGA]

But complex electronics are theirs. On the "old" Su-35S imported components 25%. At the PAK, this figure is clearly even higher, because the components were done in single versions, so we do it.

[Koshak]

Quote: Stas157

The Indians are smart-ass, broke off at a price of almost two, and waited until the Russian aircraft brought to the state test!

That's right. With "dryers" they blackmailed us "Rafals", and now what? Did they threaten to buy the F-35?

[Vita vko]

It would be good now to agree on similar projects for the development and creation of a unified missile defense system in the framework of the SCO.

[Tusv]

Quote: Vita VKO

It would be good now to agree on similar projects for the development and creation of a unified missile defense system in the framework of the SCO.

So what to do. Adequate power in Yankostan is not expected in the next four years. Such a project is more likely than not
Within the framework of the CSTO, it is already being implemented, in particular, Russia - Belarus - Armenia. In the framework of Russia - China, infa slipped, but was immediately hidden behind a veil of secrecy. I believe that s-400 deliveries to China and India will be within the framework of an already completed joint missile defense agreement.

[rotmistr60]

Russia and India settled contentious issues

Well, it's good that they settled. And then they have corruption worse than ours, so many negotiations drag on indefinitely. Pauses are taken in the hope of a discount in price with a miscalculation of possible kickbacks in India.

[Banishing liberoids]

Knowing the Indians, I’m sure that until the full settlement of controversial issues as before Mars on all fours.

[jjj]

They will also say that the project is crude, that the machine does not meet the declared characteristics, that it is not assembled sufficiently ...

[Wiruz]

As far as I remember, the Indians have already pumped the right about FGFA more than once. They wanted to assemble serial aircraft at home, although according to the initial contract, all Indian FGFAs should be assembled in Russia. They demanded that Russia give them certain technologies, including engines. That avionics did not suit them, they say "we need exactly the same, but our assembly." The impudent of them are partners, I can tell you.

[There is an opinion]

The West does not transfer technology to them, only the final product, and ours give everything. 20 years will pass and they will not buy anything from us, for they will be able to do it themselves. This is how China, which is practically not importing. These markets will soon be lost for us.

[aksakal]

Quote: There is an opinion

The West does not transfer technology to them, only the final product, and ours give everything. 20 years will pass and they will not buy anything from us, for they will be able to do it themselves. This is how China, which is practically not importing. These markets will soon be lost for us.

- have a choice? Or just pump oil for export? The only thing that remains is to sell them the technology, but DO NOT STAND ON YOUR PLACE! While we are selling these technologies, at this time we are developing new ones. They mastered the sold to them, and we already have a new technology running in. They have a dilemma again - either start developing this technology that we have already developed, or buy one that is already being tested with us. Practice shows that almost always, if you are already lagging behind in fact, it’s cheaper and more practical, and there are fewer risks — buy it (if they sell it, of course). Give you examples or do you know them yourself? And it’s most practical - when buying technology, at this time, start developing the next generation of technology. So there is a chance to catch up well, or even less to lag behind.

[V.ic]

Wiruz "The impudent of them are partners, I'll tell you."

Aryans, what to ask from them!

[There is an opinion]

The 5th generation does not shine for them in any case, so let them take this one, otherwise they will fly on their Rafals until the end of the century.

[Wiruz]

The 5th generation does not shine for them in any case, so let them take this one, otherwise they will fly on their Rafals until the end of the century

FGFA is already the fifth generation aircraft

[There is an opinion]

I meant it.

[okko077]

The 5th generation does not shine for us either. Most just can't imagine what a 5th generation airplane is? They believe that this is just an airplane. Well, there was the first, second, ....., and now fifth. Here is a mistake that does not take into account the information revolution in the world. The 5th generation aircraft is a key element of the global information combat system. If you think that the 5th generation aircraft can be made without such a system, then you are deeply mistaken. So, if India buys, for example, the F35 from the USA, this does not mean that she bought a 5th generation airplane; she will not be able to realize all its capabilities because she does not have her own information system, or because of incompatibility with it. ..Likewise, with an UAV .... You cannot buy a modern UAV, without integration into an information system, it will have primitive capabilities .. You can buy a glider, an engine, some equipment, but you can’t buy coordination with your system. The brains must be their own, for their system, ensuring coordination and entry ... Many do not understand this with us. Moreover, we have not created such a system. There were attempts, but .... So, we can only dream of a 5th generation aircraft and modern UAVs. ...

[Vita vko]

Quote: okko077

UAV is impossible, without integration into the information system, it will have primitive capabilities

The Air Force and Air Defense have long had a single 4th generation ACS. More recently, Putin announced the creation of a single integrated intelligence and information field. The idea is not new, it has been worked out for almost 10 years and will soon be physically embodied.
Therefore, you are greatly mistaken in claiming

Quote: okko077

Many of us do not understand this.

You may surprise me very much, but even Serdyukov understood this and created a whole department in the Russian Defense Ministry.

[okko077]

It is not true. The state program was adopted in 2000 and envisioned equipping our army with such systems by 2020. It has failed and will not be implemented. If you need links, I will. These programs have the wrong concept. Instead of pure information systems, systems were developed providing for command and control of troops. Moreover, the second task eventually became an end in itself, although it is not clear how to control the troops if there is no information about the enemy. The ESU TZ and "Andromeda" systems and the like consider equipment even their soldiers can , and their pulse, but do not provide collection of information about the enemy and his actions? !!! Complete stupidity ..... In addition, this concept required enormous computing power and was not feasible .. The failure of these programs did not remove the task of creating information systems. Just recently, the president set this task anew at a meeting of the Security Council. But there is no concept. VVS with air defense only this, what is global? Not funny? And you know that the TU-2R records all reconnaissance information on carriers that are decrypted on the ground after landing and are not transmitted anywhere in real time. And one set of such equipment is gathering dust at the manufacturing plant. Is one example enough or another?

[Vita vko]

What is not true? ESU TK and Andromeda adopted. All intelligence systems with these automated control systems were integrated from the very beginning. Otherwise, it is simply impossible to organize a combat control cycle and calculate the reaction time, if you understand what it is of course about.

[okko077]

ESU TK has been put into service, but it does not work. How much money wasted. It is useless and no one needs it. It is assembled on an outdated base and it is not informational, but for command and control of troops ..... the UAV could not be coordinated with it, for MST and Tornado it does not give out anything ..... This scrap metal can be handed over immediately into scrap. Do you know who accepted and signed the act of state tests? By the way, the program for their release was not completed in 2015, and is not being implemented in 2016. Although, why release them? For show? With "Andromeda" a little better .... UAVs in perspective, but magic glasses ..... Give links? NO combat control cycle ..... did you know?

[Vita vko]

Quote: okko077

adopted, but it does not work

Strange wording. In principle, you can believe everything that is written or heard, but I personally took part in the formation of some requirements for the ESU TK back in 2006, and in 2009 we tested it together with the Sintez automated control system by a whole commission. And everyone highly appreciated its effectiveness, which increases the combat capabilities of the unit by 2,5 times on average! Then there was some problem with the means of communication. The Aqueduct radio stations of the old modification did not have a sufficient level of noise immunity, but they say this problem is being solved now.

[okko077]

Links for you:
1.http: //kanchukov-sa.livejournal.com/100439.html
2.http: //army-news.ru/2010/11/kompleks-esu-tz/.

[Vita vko]

Are you saying that the whole commission had hallucinations when they saw with their own eyes how two portable VHF radio stations transmit high-definition video to each other through a secure channel in duplex mode ?! Is this possible at 1,2-1,6 kilobits per second, as some kind of "specialist" Kandaurov writes?
The only real problem is the presence of the human factor and not the desire of generals and senior officers to abandon stereotypes, and of course corruption.

The military blame the developers for the lack of proposals for creating modern methods of work for the commander and staff. In response, the developers make claims in the absence of scientifically based methods and operating principles of the same commander and staff, which are necessary to describe them in mathematical language when creating system software.

In reality, everything works well. Because there is TK, there is an approved test program and retraining courses for specialists. Everything else is just unfair competition, the same Sistemprom, which sits in Moscow, does not do a fig, hires student programmers for a penny and hacks in a "live journal".

[okko077]

Want. Read more, only all 3 parts and learn to use the Internet yourself:
http://zampolit-ru.livejournal.com/2434008.html

[SergeySeverny]

India is our reliable partner, we always remember who saved the defense in the 90s, no one canceled his cold head

[BABA SHURA]

Of course, not from a good life we ​​have to share. I do not think that Russia has a task to develop India technically. If there weren’t such a situation, the Indians would consider happiness only the prospect of acquiring such an aircraft. And they did not try, besides acquiring, to set conditions.

[Zaurbek]

It’s good that you alone understand! one in two countries! In one, 1 billion lives, and in the other 140 million.

[okko077]

The forum audience is enough for me. I want to convey to thinking people the big problem of creating information systems. It is necessary to give up everything and create the concept of such a system, the elements of such a system, the system itself. Without it it is impossible to create robots and shock drones and the 6th generation and ..... Life will force it to be done, but I would like without consequences ....

[Banishing liberoids]

Okko07-Valery, but do our MoDs understand that the creation of a SU 50 or PAKFA without creating its own information-analytical weapon control system will not change reality - that is, the appearance of this aircraft will not appear on our Air Force?

[okko077]

Do not understand. The first confirmation of Syria ... The question is for Borisov, Gerasimov, for these geniuses of military science. And we also have the Main Directorate of Scientific Research Activities of the Ministry of Defense, I wonder: what does it do?

[INTA_VEGA]

Okko077, Again you started an old song (
I have the opinion that you are working in an office that has lost money after the state commission on your crafts.
Since 2000, everything has been discussed, at least since 2010 OCD has been conducted. The results of the state commissions did not lead to the creation of a single information management system, and apparently, for understandable reasons, they do not work. Moreover, that of amers, that of ours. And if some kind of integration all Air defense / missile defense is still possible, for the ground forces this is unrealistic.
At the same time, the absence of a single one does not cancel out that separate systems exist and are actually used in the troops.

Quote: okko077

It is necessary to give up everything and create the concept of such a system, the elements of such a system, the system itself.

I do not understand what you are calling for? At our technological stage, the concepts have long been adopted, the elements have been developed and partly implemented, the creation of a single complex was recognized as inexpedient. MoE made a decision. I am absolutely sure that there are no fools sitting there. People have the results of design and scientific work and they are deeply "on the drum" from the Internet.
Especially since you Okko077Do not bring more than one real, concrete argument why and what do you want to supply to the troops?

Life is not a computer game. From personal experience I can say that all of these complexes, if anyone can really use it, are specialists and only in peacetime. The ceiling of such systems is ATO in one of the subjects.

[okko077]

Here is one ceiling in Syria. In a small country we cannot control the territory and destroy carts and columns, groups. Aren't you ashamed of such a war? Besides movies in recording for TV programs, is this the ceiling of videoconferencing information capabilities? ... Instead of modern systems, fire spotters and this is without a ground operation. Where is the ESU TK, where is "Andromed-D", where is the UAV that give the coordinates of the targets to them or someone else. There is nothing, it does not work, it is already out of date and has not appeared. It's a shame .... In the political field, successes, in the military-technical, a complete failure.

[INTA_VEGA]

Quote: okko077

we cannot control the territory and destroy convoys and columns

To solve the first problem, you need to send troops.
And with the second, is it a problem? Look how well the UN convoy destroyed
If without jokes - then in no country in the world. The tasks of destroying columns are not solved by bombers and the Kyrgyz Republic. For this there are attack aircraft and helicopters, which we use.
If they don’t take videos off of them, this does not mean that we have problems with defeating moving targets.
Where, in principle, do you have information about problems with the destruction of convoys ?? I am seriously interested in reading a detailed point of view on this issue.

The fact that the coordinates can not give out.
It’s shitty of course, but they will take a heavy UAV - we will learn, it’s a gain.

About ESU TK, Andromeda - did it seem that the TV men flashed armpits in the frame?

To be honest, the deification of these systems is not very clear. It’s not more difficult for me to get the coordinates with the PDP by voice, and not as a picture.
The loss of several minutes during data transmission is not a big disaster. If you want to "kill" the enemies as soon as you see - let's reconnaissance direct communication with the battery (operator of the weapon) and designate landmarks in advance.
The whole blockage occurs not in communication channels, but in approvals and "decision-making" in higher headquarters. And here no ESU TK will help.

Imagine that I’m a battalion commander. Explain than me, not my signalmen Can ESU really help live?

Quote: okko077

Do you want to offer me a job?

Advertise yourself as a specialist, then we'll see

[okko077]

Email message [email protected] where to write and what can you do?

[okko077]

I don’t need to imagine, my position was equated to a battalion commander back in 1987 ... But I didn’t use the ESU TK. In informational terms, it supposedly should provide coordination of systems, such as UAVs and self-propelled guns "Coalition" But she could not fulfill this task. .... How can I deify her?

[okko077]

As for attack aircraft and helicopters, this is a necessary measure. Two or three artillery points with an MSTA type self-propelled gun and a Tornado-S MLRS or the like would be enough. Although humanitarian aid and fire spotters are less ground-based than artillery points changing positions? ... But this is when organizing an information field, at least with the help of a UAV, and issuing target coordinates in real time .. But this is just fantastic for our VKS. But in fact, there are no problems with this, we have everything for this, there is no understanding, and no desire.

[okko077]

Do you want to offer me a job? To whom should I state my thoughts and recommendations? Easy .....

[Titsen]

Well now at least the money for our version will appear!

[tanit]

What fascinates me ... "I commanded a company 100 years ago, I know everything." And I, for example, have three stars with two gaps ... And what I don't know, I don't go there. Does pension blow your mind?
Well, I crashed yesterday ....