Ambitions of the German Navy in the Baltic - a signal to strengthen the Baltic Fleet of the Russian Navy

In the comments to the blog materials, opinions were repeatedly expressed that the Baltic the fleet Due to the limited (if not microscopic) nature of the theater of operations, the Russian Navy does not need frigates at all, and the number of submarines can be limited to two or three (in other words, the corvette should become the main warship of the Baltic Sea). However, the information published on the Foreign Military Review published in No. 8/2016 on the functions of the German Navy in the framework of the NATO collective defense (K. Dmitriev’s article “German Naval Forces”, pp. 71-76) makes one think about the "correctness" of such judgments (the author of the blog had previously been against the weakening of the Baltic Fleet, but now his confidence has also received documentary evidence).

The frigate (destroyer) under construction. 125 Ave. - the largest German multi-purpose ship (scheme from the site of the German Navy)

So, within the collective "defense" of NATO, the German Navy, among other things, is charged with:
1) the conquest of domination in the Baltic Sea and its retention in the North (there is a big doubt about the domination of the North Sea - I think that it is not a cap on Senka);
2) blockade of the Baltic Straits (Beltov and Zunda) - of course, in order to prevent the Baltic Fleet of Russia from reaching the operational space of the Baltic Fleet or, on the contrary, its strengthening by ships from other fleets in the event of a hypothetical regional conflict - A.Sh.).

What forces Deutsche Marine plans to solve such ambitious tasks? (since the German Navy is still too far from the “Big Ten” and is not planned to be considered in detail as part of a statistical study conducted by the author of the blog, a brief overview of them will not be superfluous). According to ZVO No. 8 / 2016, as part of the rearmament of the Navy, it is planned to increase the number of the ship's personnel to:

1) six NNS Ave 212A (now five, 1450 t nadv.) Based in Navy Eckernförde, Kiel Bay, Baltic Sea;
2) of four frigates under construction, in fact - destroyers (7100 tons full). 125 avenue, based in the naval base of Wilhelmshaven, North Sea (can be easily transferred to the Baltic by the Kiel Canal);
3) of the three frigates of the 124 Ave. (in service, 5800 tons full) with a base in the naval base of Wilhelmshaven;
4) of the four frigates of the 123 Ave. (in service, 4900 tons full) with a base in the naval base of Wilhelmshaven;
5) six multipurpose ships (frigates) of the MKS-180 avenue (after 2024 g., 5000-6000 t full.) Based in Wilhelmshaven (?);
6) of the five corvettes of the 130 Ave. (in service, 1850 tons full) based in Warnemünd, Rostock, Baltic Sea.

All frigates of the 122 Ave. and missile boats of the 143A Ave. (three units each) will be withdrawn from the fleet's combat strength. As a result, the German Baltic fleet, if necessary, will have in its composition 6 NNL, 4 destroyer (calling things by their proper names), 13 frigates and 5 corvettes.

Obviously, the available forces of the Baltic Fleet to counter this threat is not enough (2 SSK etc. 877, 1 EM pr. 956, 2 TFR forth. 11540, 4 corvette forth. 20380, 4 IRAs etc.. 1234, 6 RCA pr. 1241, 6 IPC pr. 1331), and the construction of only the corvettes of the pr 20380 and 20385 alone is not correct. It is necessary to have at least one submarine brigade (6 units), a frigate brigade, two brigade of corvettes and three or four divisions of new RTOs on the Baltic.

In addition, we should not forget that there (or in the immediate vicinity) there is Denmark, Norway, as well as Poland and neutral Sweden (permanent members of the "anti-Russian club"). And if you add Holland, Belgium, France (commanders in Cherbourg and Brest), the former Lady of the Seas and a few American pennants, which have a plug in each barrel, a very impressive "armada" is recruited that can easily arrange, say, a naval blockade of Kaliningrad. Given the increased NATO activity in the Baltic and the Black Sea, there is an urgent need to build not only the ocean fleet, but also the fleets of our closed and semi-enclosed seas. With the overwhelming naval superiority of the West, it is necessary to build them so that one of our ships cost two or three enemy ships at the expense of much more advanced weapons, in which we are traditionally strong. But it is already completely different. story.

Comments

[Rom14]

Torpedo robots need to be built, with the scent of a friend or foe. Such a fool is lying and waiting for a guest ... Any ship for modern weapons is just a good target. (He served an urgent on the SF - a torpedo boat. A couple of torpedoes and from the target of the destroyer only flew down .., well, and the boat is designed for five minutes of battle.)

[Wiruz]

Forgive me for not serving, but how are you going to approach the enemy destroyers on a torpedo boat?

[Hunt]

Swim how else! In combat enthusiasm, it’s immediately obvious, underwater - sofa DIVERSANT !!! But the boat is designed to perform a combat mission, and not for five minutes of battle! Do not say such things to sailors, this is not only a comrade, but also a house for a sailor !!!

[Stirbjorn]

it’s easier to hammer a cruise missile from an airplane, or from a bastion on the shore

[spravochnik]

Torpedo robots need to be built, with the scent of a friend or foe. Such a fool is lying and waiting for a guest ... Any ship for modern weapons is just a good target. (He served an urgent on the SF - a torpedo boat. A couple of torpedoes and from the target of the destroyer only flew down .., well, and the boat is designed for five minutes of battle.)

Such systems have long been in service (since Soviet times. They are called MRK (mine-missile complex) and MTK (mine-torpedo complex). There are several modifications. They are made in the dimensions of a standard 533-mm torpedo and are installed with submarines via TA.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

the "roasted rooster" pecked us ... for so many years the fleet was ignored, and now, when the smell of gunpowder, they suddenly saw that there was nothing to fight ... Russia, which positions itself as a sea power, has such a short fleet ... we urgently rivet MRK and, sweating, SKRy ... we draw the destroyer, we darn cruisers, there are more ships in the graveyard than in the ranks. Instead of a gradual renewal, we are restoring the fleet practically anew ... sad ... and difficult. Why does the epiphany come "afterward"?

[Wiruz]

The main thing, and how beautifully promised fifteen years ago, during the laying of the Guardian, they say by 2015, the Navy will have at least fifteen such corvettes

[zadorin1974]

Well, Alexey, before the collection in 2001 we also have trindels that everyone will be dressed in Permyachki. Now I want to ask a question from a purely land-based understanding. In a conflict in the Baltic, the fleet will be sealed in the Gulf of Finland. Accordingly, all large ships will be out of the game. Is it easier to keep Buyans in the Baltic, because they can be transferred along internal routes to the North or South if necessary?

[NEXUS]

rudolff

No, well, we will build, of course, but so, without rushing and without straining. So we have what we have.

Rudolph, welcome!
But is it only the Baltic Fleet in this state? Three years ago he said that the fleet should be rejuvenated, as quickly as possible, because the time will come when our gouging of the 90s will come back with a terrible haemorrhoids. So we have what we have. Things are not much better on the Pacific Fleet than on the Baltic ... more or less, things are better on the SF, but not very much. Our fleet is getting old. The flagship Black Sea Fleet in Moscow will soon celebrate 40 years. And okay, if the new RTOs were built quickly ... and we frigate the frigates for 2-3 years, when in Matrassia, during this time the destroyers are riveting. And all this despite the fact that the Germans, the French and the British are also updating their fleets. And we are alone, and we do not have such allies as the United States in the person of Britons, Germans, Franks, etc. And it turns out that if you do not scratch yourself, then on the horizon looms, sorry, ass, like the sun at sunrise.
At the same time, the story of the Mace looks very sad. Yes, and with Zircon, it is also silent and silence. Nakhimov, God forbid, in the 19th they will hand over to the fleet, and that is not a fact. With Ash-trees, too, a plug with a postponement. And honestly, I don’t understand how to rake it all.
If it is more or less well formed with the land pilots and the VKS, then with the fleets, I must admit this, the great rise of the fifth point on the horizon rises.

[KaPToC]

No need to juggle, the Americans are building ships no faster than others, including us, and Arly Burke has worked out the project of a catastrophically outdated destroyer, and it’s inconvenient to carry it and it’s a pity to abandon it.

[Forest]

Our frigate was built longer than their lead aircraft carrier of the series. Burki and its copies are so far the best mass destroyers, would be glad if they put such obsolescence there.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

pecked at us "roast cock"

... but meanwhile -

In Germany, the party of Angela Merkel came up with a proposal to introduce new sanctions against Russia with the aim of perssure-to put pressure on us so that we change our position on Syria.

They want to punish us for our bad behavior, not in the Donbass, but in Syria. Because we are helping the Syrian government forces take the Syrian city of Aleppo, and not NATO, not the US Army, but Jebhat-en-Nusra (banned in the Russian Federation - ed.), Which is now called ending in “Sham” "

Gorbi is still alive, Mikhail Gorbachev - Mechenyi, who organized in 1989 in October, the unification of the two Germanys. Well then, Gorby did then, huh ?! Perhaps then you committed a crime! And not in prison, lying on your side in the "Gorbachev Center."

Unable to embed Germany and its interests, I will refrain from useless curses. But I will try to make my country remember the behavior of Germany in October 2016. Never trust the Fritz again. Learn the phrases of our grandfathers “Halt!” “Hyundai hoch!”

In 1945, Americans and Russians were vigorously discussing what to do with Berlin. The American side vindictively proposed to expose Berlin to the fate of Carthage, to raze the city to the ground, to plow and sow wild herbs. The Soviet humanists, muttering about the united proletarians of the whole world, defended Berlin. Those interested can see articles by Fyodor Gladkov in Pravda and articles of the same time in the New York Times.

Next time, if we have to decide their fate, but definitely have to, we will not persuade migrants to leave Berlin alone.
Eduard Limonov

I support Limonov!

[vomag]

I don’t understand why are you so alarmed? Where is the threat? Again .. here .. they .. make ships possibly against us .... hmmhhm this is a NATO member means against us! aaaaa mlyayayaya all propalooo! urgently the whole fleet to the Baltic! hahha gentlemen do not fool the Baltic, it’s very easy to lock and we don’t have the keys (example 1941) ... therefore you don’t need to keep the armada of ships there in the hope that everyone will be given out of fear only at its sight

[Wiruz]

Excuse me, will you personally throw the enemy caps on?

[rotmistr60]

Wiruz, when will you learn how to distinguish "hap-hack" from thinking on a topic? I noticed that this is not the first time you use this turnover completely out of place. vomag gave an example of the Second World War and expressed his opinion. What has it to do with "throwing hats"?

[Wiruz]

very easy to lock and the keys are not with us

I just read it at first without "not". That is why I perceived the comment in a diametrically opposite way. I apologize to you and Sergey.

[rotmistr60]

It’s good when a person admits his mistake, which is not so often

[vomag]

YOU was written to everyone who left the comments and not to you personally .. look at the fighting in the Baltic in 1-2 world wars and you will understand that in the 3rd world it will be the same ... just read ... and when you read that, bad ideas will disappear by themselves ... oh yeah, I almost forgot I was glad that they removed the cons, and then ury patriots schA would have slapped me ten thousand of them ... but they would not have sat down for books ......

[vomag]

In case of land blockadeI'm afraid that then the sea and air blockade will go into "battle" and, as practice shows, it will be necessary to break through the corridor to the enclave's territory ... I think there is no need to explain further ...

[avt]

Quote from rudolf

And where are the keys to the Baltic? No one is going through the straits and is not going to, and this is impossible.

Yes, and not sick they are on the head to drive such units to the Baltic. They are building with an eye on the ocean.

[kuz363]

If there will be a land blockade through Lithuania, and then the sea, what is the point of developing the Baltic Fleet? It is useless to compete with NATO countries. In both previous wars, the BF has shown itself to be very mediocre, to say the least. It’s easier for Russia to break through a 70 km land corridor through Lithuania to Belarus - that’s the solution to the blockade, and with less money.

[KaPToC]

But but, no need to run into the most warring fleet in the world in World War II. The Baltic Fleet played a decisive role in the defense of Leningrad, on no other theater of operations the actions of the other fleets were so decisive.

[NEXUS]

vomag

I don’t understand why are you so alarmed? Where is the threat? Again .. here .. they .. make ships possibly against us .... hmmhhm this is a NATO member means against us! aaaaa mlyayayaya all propalooo! urgently the whole fleet to the Baltic! hahha gentlemen do not fool the Baltic, it’s very easy to lock and we don’t have the keys (example 1941) ... therefore you don’t need to keep the armada of ships there in the hope that everyone will be given out of fear only at its sight

Dear, in other fleets we are not much better off. Ships age, and new ones build slowly. Now take a look at how the mattress ships and their satellites are built, and in a compartment it’s all the NATO fleet with axes and Standards-3 ... and we take, because we can’t put the GSU on three new frigates now, we sell almost ready not China, not India ... and what’s upbeat here, do you find?

[The leader of the Redskins]

There are Turks, here are Germans. Everywhere the fleet needs to REVIVE. And where to get the money?

[Skeptic Self-Taught]

Well, I can draw several diagrams right away ... I just suspect that our government will have more brains than mine. But you can’t spare money on the army and navy. And this fact is undeniable.

[Stirbjorn]

if only money - we still cannot produce propulsion systems for frigates. "Polyment Redoubt" is also not finished, the submarines with VNEU are still in the project. The article is some kind of nonsense, relevant for the middle of the last century.

[Phosgene]

Judging by the fact that we have today, the current government of the Russian Federation is not able to establish production in the Russian Federation, and the enterprises themselves are in the hands of ineffective managers and owners. So, alas, things are sad with shipbuilding and not only in the Russian Federation. then it should be regarded as a declaration of war of the Russian Federation and warned that all the impudent NATO countries. If someone is tired of living in Berlin without rocket attacks, this can be fixed. How many times Germany attacked Russia, but history doesn’t teach them anything ... Stubbornness is the dignity of donkeys!

[spravochnik]

Never mind, the Germans will soon build ships. Petersburg "Pella" bought a German shipyard and plans to build on it auxiliary vessels, designed, by the way, in the design bureau of this same shipyard.

[iouris]

After the shameful flight (withdrawal) of Soviet troops from Germany, the transfer of all allies and property of the USSR in the ATS to NATO, the Baltic Fleet has no strategic importance.

[Disorder]

What kind of military operations can be in the shooting through the Baltic Sea?

[spravochnik]

Quote from rudolf

As long as there is no fleet, they won’t go to the sea blockade. In any case, not now. But the land is possible at any time. Passenger-passenger transit through the Baltic states will simply be banned and that’s it. Type next sanctions. If we talk about the sea blockade, it is different. For example, inspection and prohibition of passage of merchant ships or mining of water areas, fairways. It is, as it were, not a war, but it is already close to it. And we had minesweepers about two times and miscalculated, and even those old men with antediluvian trawls.
Regarding the "corridor", it is not so simple. It is possible to pass tanks through Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and then what? Place checkpoints on roads and railway junctions? Will not work. We will have to not just break through a corridor, but to conquer these three states completely and completely. A corridor across Suwalki along the Polish border is hardly possible, Batka will never allow this in his life, his own skin is more expensive.
Hence the conclusion, while there is an opportunity to build a fleet. This is a kind of insurance against the rash steps of the West. Weak bite any mongrel strives.

Well, agreeing with the Old Man is not necessary. It is possible through Latvia (Latgale) and Lithuania - along the Belarusian border. It will be safe on the one hand.

[K-50]

In addition, one should not forget that there (or in the immediate vicinity) there is also Denmark, Norway, as well as Poland and, for now, neutral Sweden (permanent members of the "anti-Russian club"). And if you add Holland, Belgium, France (commanders in Cherbourg and Brest), the former Lady of the Seas and several American pennants, which are plugged in each barrel, a very impressive "armada" is recruited, which can easily arrange, say, a naval blockade of Kaliningrad.

Very funny article. relevant for the times of Peter the Great, well, before the era of the mid-twentieth century. Why?. author, do you really think that the Russian Baltic Fleet will have nothing more to heat these tubs with? Our coastal missile systems Bal and the Kalibr anti-ship missile systems of various bases, including air anti-ship missiles, target the entire water area, up to the middle of the Atlantic and beyond. And where will they arrange a naval blockade? Standing in their ports and bases? Because if we are talking about such a blockade, then this is a war. Yes, they will not even have time to return from the leave to the shore, as they will blow bubbles from the bottom of the water areas. The same goes for the Black Sea straits. The only reason to ban Russia from using them is to declare war. the consequences for the "prohibitionists" and "blockaders" are the same - a massive attack on them by all types of air forces, anti-ship missiles and the Kyrgyz Republic on the infrastructure of ports and bases, along with "movable property."
Well, who will they have cancer?

[Alexander Abdrakhmanov]

Why should Russia keep a large fleet in the Baltic Sea? Russia has enough coastal missile system for defense. This is not that age - to fight in the open sea, all the more in this puddle. It’s just that it is the hegemony of the West, so that we spend more on these dishes. Let them build - what it will give them today, big losses in people. Well, if they have extra, let them build.

[colonel manuch]

It was necessary to think about it yesterday, but today we have to do it. Now we can only say: “God forbid to be in time!” The main attention of course will be paid to the Northern Fleet and TF, the Black Sea Fleet with the Caspian Flotilla and the Baltic Fleet can be blocked, although such a blockade should be considered conditional because both Fleet have already proved that with their "long arm" they can reach the "enemy" without leaving the gates of the base. I consider it necessary to strengthen the aviation component in all fleets and add air defense systems, especially in the enclave, I think those who need to know know about this.

[Torkvat torkvat]

Baltic puddle fascists build frigates with a distant sight for sure all videos creation of the EU their armies