Brief history of pistol-carbines. Part of 2. Mauser C96

Pistols with detachable butts appeared for the first time during the domination of the muzzle-loading rifle weapons in the XVII-XVIII centuries. In the XIX century there were also samples of such weapons, for example, a cap revolver Colt dragoon. But the greatest number of pistol-carbines was designed, of course, in the XX century. One of the most famous pistols of this type is the German Mauser C96. This gun has become one of the symbols of the civil war in Russia; it’s impossible to imagine a single film or series about the events of those years without these weapons. The famous "Your word, comrade Mauser" from Mayakovsky's poem "Left March" is also Mauser C96.


At that moment, when the industrial revolution allowed making firearms more compact (due to the transition to the use of small calibers and smokeless powder), individual detachable buttstocks themselves evolved into combined holster-butts. Under normal conditions, a revolver or pistol could be carried in such a holster using one or two hands. In the case of the need for a more accurate shot over a long distance, the rigid holster was removed from the belt of the shooter and attached directly to the weapon, becoming a butt. One of the most famous models of the pistol of this concept was the German Mauser C96, which was equipped with a wooden holster-butt and had slots in the lower part of the handle for fastening it. But even before Mauser, the same solution was used on the first serial self-loading pistol Borchard C93, which received a holster-butt of a combined design. In it on the detachable wooden butt on the side was attached a holster for a pistol made of leather. However, Borchard C93 did not receive such fame as Mauser C96, especially in the open spaces of Russia.

The model gained serious popularity in the civilian arms market and remained in demand throughout the first third of the 20th century. Hunters, researchers, travelers and gangsters - everyone who needed a compact and powerful enough weapon used a Mauser C96 pistol, but each in their own interests. The reason for the great popularity of these weapons was the declared power. Advertising brochures indicated that a bullet fired from a pistol retains a destructive force at a distance of up to a kilometer. True, the aiming shooting at such a range could not even dream, would not help and attach the butt. Scattering at maximum range could reach 5 meters in height and 4 meters in width, and the situation couldn’t be fixed even if the weapon was fixed.



Mauser possessed combat qualities high enough for pistols of his temporary period, but was never adopted by any army in the world because of the complexity of design and maintenance, high cost, rather large dimensions and relatively low reliability. Despite this, the gun was partially used in the armed forces of many countries: Germany, Italy, Great Britain, Russia, Austria-Hungary, Yugoslavia, Turkey, Japan and China. This gun in the world stories was prepared for a slightly different role than ordinary military weapons.

The brothers Friedrich and Joseph Federle developed the design of the Mauser C96 pistol back in the 1893 year, later it was improved in conjunction with Paul Mauser and master gunsmith Gaiser. Work on bringing the pistol to mind was completed in the 1895 year. At the same time began the release of a trial batch. 15 March 1895, the new pistol was shown to Kaiser Wilhelm II. In this case, Paul Mauser patented the design in his own name, under which the gun and entered forever in the world history of weapons. Its name С96 (Construktion 96 - 96-th design) was received by the pistol only in 1910 year, simultaneously with the launch of the release of the pocket Mauser, which was created under the cartridge 6,35 × 15,5 HR. It should be noted that the name Mauser C96 was used at that time only by importers and sellers. At the manufacturer, the Mauser pistol was designated as “Mauser-Selbstlade-Pistole” (Mauser self-loading pistol).

The new gun had a number of distinctive features. He had a permanent two-row magazine with a capacity of 10 cartridges, which was located in front of the trigger guard and was loaded with cartridges from special plate clips. Hold the gun was carried out using a round cone handle, which had grooves for attaching to it a wooden holster-butt. Model C96 got the nickname "Broomhandle", which can be translated as "broomstick", precisely because of the shape of the handle of the weapon. The gun was equipped with a sector sight, which was designed to fire up to 1000 meters. Especially for the gun was created 7,63 × 25 Mauser cartridge, the design of which was based on 7,65 mm Borchardt cartridge, but with an increased powder charge and an elongated sleeve. The initial speed of a bullet fired from a pistol reached 430 m / s, which for that time was a record figure among pistols. In addition, the Mauser were also produced under the chambered 9 mm Parabellum and in small volumes under the chambered 9 mm Mauser Export (9 × 25 mm). Most of the pistols were released under the chuck 7,63 × 25 Mauser, which was almost completely similar to the Soviet cartridge 7,62x25 mm TT.



Automatic pistol worked under the scheme of using recoil in the short course of the barrel. A distinctive feature of the Mauser was a permanent magazine with a double-row arrangement of cartridges, which was located in front of the trigger guard and was made as a single unit with the pistol frame (the pistol layout would later be called “automatic”). The capacity of the store, depending on the modifications, could change and amounted to 6, 10 or 20 cartridges. Shop equipment was made from clips with a capacity of 10 cartridges. In later models of the pistol, the stores became separate parts, they were attached to the frame with a latch. Indicator of the presence of the cartridge in the chamber of the pistol acted ejector, which protruded from the surface of the bolt, at a time when the cartridge was in the chamber.

The gun had both bright advantages, and not less bright lacks. For its time, the gun, of course, was advanced. The powerful cartridge, which possessed a high speed of a bullet and high energy, in combination with a long barrel, ensured a high penetrating action. When firing from a distance of 50 meters, the bullet easily broke through a bar with a thickness of 225 mm, and at a distance of 200 meters with a bar with a thickness of 145 mm. Also, the gun stood out for its accuracy when shooting at long distances, which was largely contributed to by a rather long barrel and flat bullet trajectory. The great advantage was the high rate of fire, especially with the attached holster-butt, which also improved accuracy when firing at remote targets.

The most significant shortcomings of the model attributed - a lot of weight and large dimensions. The center of gravity of the pistol was shifted forward. The sharp and thin front sight was not convenient for aiming. High-speed pistol shooting with one hand was very difficult because of the large pistol toss when fired. This was caused not only by the power of the used cartridge, but also by the considerable distance between the central axis of the barrel and the butt plate of the handle. The handle itself in the form of a cutting from a shovel or broom also did not please with any particular convenience, which negatively influenced the accuracy, especially for untrained shooters. It was also possible to attribute to the shortcomings that after the 20 shots the barrel of the pistol was already very hot, and after the 100 it was simply impossible to touch it. But all these shortcomings did not prevent the pistol from becoming a truly legendary weapon.



Chip pistol was the ability to use a holster as a butt. The holster was made of walnut, the front cut had a steel insert with a locking mechanism and a protrusion for abutting the butt to the pistol grip, while the flap of the holster rested against the shoulder of the shooter. Kobura-butt worn on a shoulder-belt over his shoulder. From the outside, she could be sheathed with leather and even have pockets designed to hold a spare clip and tools for cleaning and disassembling the gun. The length of such a holster was 35,5 cm, the width in the front part was 4,5 cm, in the back part 10,5 cm. The effective range of the pistol with the butt attached to it reached 200-300 meters. Among other things, the holster-butt allowed to increase the effectiveness of firing in bursts from the Mauser modification, which was created in 1931 year (model 712 or Mauser sample 1932 of the year). On this gun there was a translator of the fire regime, which allowed the shooter to choose the type of shooting: by bursts or single shots.

Each pistol could easily be turned into a pistol-carbine using a holster-butt. But Mauser models were also released, which were even closer to full-fledged carbines, and using with a butt was for them the main one. The first carbine pistols were already released in 1899 year. Their main difference was just a giant trunk for pistols. If the standard version of the Mauser C96 barrel was so large - 140 mm, then in these versions it reached the 300 mm. Such pistols-carbines had a forearm attached to the frame, as well as a classical type butt. The butt, which was made at the same time with the handle, could be completely separated from the frame, as folding guns or pistols with an attached butt on the German weapons legislation of those years were allowed, and rifles and carbines, which allowed the shot with the butt removed, were prohibited. All Mauser pistols-carbines of the original design had such features as a removable butt with a handle (without being able to fire a shot without joining the butt pistol), barrels 300 long and even 370 mm, magazine on 10 7,63x25 mm cartridges and a sector sight with marking from 50 to 1000 meters. Pistols with such a long barrel and a full butt butt were released in a very small series - about 940 pieces.

In the Russian Empire, the Mauser appeared already in the 1897 year, at the same time the pistol was recommended as a personal weapon for the officers. However, the military most often used a revolver revolver for this purpose than a Mauser pistol. The price of the Mauser C96 model was quite large - about 40 gold rubles. In addition, starting with the 1913 year, the Mauzers began to arm the pilots-aviators, and from the 1915 year they used to equip some automobile units and specialized units, and the weapon went on sale as a civilian.



Later, the Mauzers actively used all sides of the Civil War in Russia. He was loved by the “red” and “white”, anarchists and Basmachis. The gun was inextricably linked with the image of the Chekist, as he was the favorite weapon of Felix Dzerzhinsky. Later, it was readily used by some Red Army commanders. Episodically, this weapon was used in all conflicts and warriors in which the Red Army took part in the first half of the 20th century, including in World War II. The famous owners of this gun besides the “Iron Felix” were polar explorer Ivan Papanin and future general secretary Leonid Brezhnev.

In general, the model Mauser C96 in some way became a landmark, classic example of self-loading pistols. This German pistol possessed both undoubted advantages (high range and accuracy of shooting) and noticeable flaws (considerable size and weight, inconvenience of loading and unloading). Despite the fact that the gun was almost not in service as the main model in any army in the world, in the first third of the last century Mauser was quite popular, and this popularity was well-deserved. Serial production of the gun lasted until the 1939 year, during which time about a million Museers of all modifications were released.

Performance characteristics of the Mauser C96:
Caliber - 7,63 mm.
The cartridge - mm 7,63x25 (Mauser).
Length - 296 mm.
Barrel length - 140 mm.
Height - 155 mm.
Width - 35 mm.
The mass of the gun - 1100 g (without cartridges).
Magazine capacity - 10 cartridges.

Information sources:
http://www.armoury-online.ru/articles/pistols/germany/C-96
https://www.all4shooters.com/ru/strelba/kultura/Kratkaya-istoriya-pistoletov-karabinov
http://fb.ru/article/192335/tehnicheskie-harakteristiki-mauzera-k--pistolet-mauser-c----legendarnoe-ognestrelnoe-orujie
http://www.zakon-grif.ru/swat/arming/articles/view/20-10.htm
Open source materials
Author:
Ctrl Enter

Noticed a mistake Highlight text and press. Ctrl + Enter

133 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. The leader of the Redskins 5 October 2016 15: 11 New
    • 4
    • 0
    +4
    How lovely! smile
    1. AUL
      AUL 5 October 2016 15: 44 New
      • 4
      • 0
      +4
      A very charismatic gun!
  2. IrbisRus 5 October 2016 15: 45 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    to shoot with such a gun.
    1. your1970 5 October 2016 16: 55 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Shot, lovely, but the handle is really not very comfortable ...
      1. Cat
        Cat 5 October 2016 19: 17 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        I bought a child pneumatics, based on the M732 replica. Himself shot at as a child.
      2. avt
        avt 5 October 2016 19: 30 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: your1970
        Shot, lovely, but the handle is really not very comfortable ...

        Come on ! I have no idea how to live in a village without a Mauser! bully I won’t say what is better than Browning High Power, but ..... just a classic of antiques! good
  3. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 16: 05 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: Yuferev Sergey
    Brief history of pistol-carbines. Part of 2. Mauser C96

    There are no carbine pistols in wildlife.
    Because the pistol "works" on the pistol cartridge, and carbines on carbine cartridges.
    Also in Russia (USSR), rifles on a rifle cartridge are commonly called rifles. Although it would be more correct to call them "sawn-off shotgun".
    Russia (USSR) did not see carbine cartridges either. Therefore, most of the inhabitants do not even suspect the existence of such. Although, what is the zigzag of history, the sleeve for the carbine cartridge in the USSR has been produced for many years in series. This is the cartridge case of the Nagan revolver. During the Second World War, even at one time there was the idea of ​​releasing a real carbine on a cartridge consisting of this cartridge case and TT bullet. Based on the design of the American M1 Carbine. But something did not grow together there. Most likely logistics.
    1. Niccola Mack 5 October 2016 17: 56 New
      • 10
      • 0
      +10
      There are no carbine pistols in wildlife.

      What are you, but the Mauser company wrote in an advertising booklet what exists. Moreover, in some publications, the authors (newspaper articles) called him the "miracle pistol-carbine."
      To argue about the origin of weapons terms - how to pour from empty to empty - for some reason in the Russian language these are two different words.
      Let's still argue about the origin of the word “carabiner” - there is a version from the two Turkic words “cara” - black and “bin” - one thousand, because of this, some people think that Italian carabinieri (with a black form) have occurred.
      "Carabiner rounds" in the nature of Russian (Soviet) weapons terms never existed.
      Also, as never before, AK-47 existed in nature - you invented it from your ceiling in your "advanced" West, and our amateurs quickly picked it up (like Schmeisser about MP-40). And in the Soviet Union in official documents (instructions, orders, etc.) it was clearly and clearly written - AK. There was AKM, AKMS, AK-74, but AK -47 wasn’t.
      It was only the illiterate Bolsheviks who thought of dragging him into the army. And then, when they ran out of ammunition, buy a cartridge factory for their ridiculous, but very pathos farting (Mauser-Bolo).

      This can be argued hoarsely, but suddenly during the war it turned out that the "hunting" TT cartridge is optimal for use in submachine guns. And PPD, PPSh and PPS actually came out in a new, more effective class of weapons.

      During the Second World War, even at one time there was the idea of ​​releasing a real carbine on a cartridge consisting of this cartridge case and TT bullet. Based on the design of the American M1 Carbine.

      I didn’t hear about such an idea, but I heard about another - to create my own intermediate cartridge similar to 7,92 * 33 (StG-44) and 7,62 * 33-Winchester (your M1 Carbine) and develop samples for it.
      The result was 7,62 * 39, SCS and AK (SCS even managed to participate in the Second World War).
      But in America, Belgium, England, apparently this cartridge was considered "sporting" - for shooting meadow dogs.
      And they developed new models for a normal rifle - M14, FN FAL, G3.
      And then after the start of Vietnam in a fire order (after meeting with the SCS and AK) they adopted both the cartridge and the M16.
      And now they consider the intermediate cartridge for assault rifles to be the standard - and they are usually used for shooting people.
      1. marshes 5 October 2016 18: 06 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        Let's still argue about the origin of the word “carabiner” - there is a version from the two Turkic words “cara” - black and “bin” - one thousand, because of this, some people think that Italian carabinieri (with a black form) have occurred.

        I didn’t know what they called on Wiki. What is Bin, MYN is a thousand. If in Turkish, Kazakh. smile
        So this is from the Arabs.
        1. Niccola Mack 5 October 2016 18: 40 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          For what I bought, for that I am selling it - and the conversation was actually about how weapons terms "mature". And what they have to do with the real design features.
          And by the way, I think that there are far from 1000 carabinieri in all of Italy.
      2. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 18: 53 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        What are you, but the Mauser company wrote in an advertising booklet what exists.

        This is her problem. For advertising purposes, she could call him, whatever.
        Business, nothing personal.
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        Moreover, in some publications, the authors (newspaper articles) called him the "miracle pistol-carbine."

        Serious "argument."
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        "Carabiner rounds" in the nature of Russian (Soviet) weapons terms never existed.

        I totally agree. But precisely with the clarification, "in the nature of Russian (Soviet) weapons terms."
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        Also, as never before, AK-47 existed in nature - you invented it from your ceiling in your "advanced" West

        A moot point. See the picture.

        In fact, the AK-47, AK and AKM are slightly different types of the same model.
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        but suddenly during the war it turned out that the "hunting" TT cartridge is optimal for use in submachine guns.

        Did you come up with this yourself? What for?
        DEP "worthless" was MP40 was a little more than 60 m. DEP "beautiful and magnificent" PPSh a little less than 35 meters. What do you find in this good?
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        And PPD, PPSh and PPS actually came out in a new, more effective class of weapons.

        Gee-gee. Apparently you confused them with Thompson's SMG. Here he is, despite the pistol cartridge, really went into a higher class.
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        (SCS even managed to participate in the Second World War)

        Joke, please.
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        But in America, Belgium, England, apparently this cartridge was considered "sporting" - for shooting meadow dogs.

        There, people understood a lot about army weapons. In the beginning of the 70s, they finally dopped up to the same thing in the USSR. Therefore, the weapon on the cartridge of 7,62x39 mm was put out of the army with the help of a knee. And the natives of the whole world received it as a gift. It was an attraction of unprecedented generosity.
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        And then after the start of Vietnam in a fire order (after meeting with the SCS and AK) they adopted both the cartridge and the M16.

        You are mistaken. M16 in Vietnam (without any reference to AK and SCS) was tested to replace Thompson's SMG. And so impressed with the results that they decided to replace them with not only him, but also M14.
        Impressed with the first M16 (captured) in the USSR. It was then and therefore that the weapon on the cartridge of 7,62x39 mm was flooded from the army.
        But the difference in class affected. The United States, after completing the M16A1 jambs, adopted a practically perfect army weapon (from the point of view of all three ballistics), an M16A2 automatic army rifle.
        The USSR could not boast of a "school". Therefore, he simply remade the AKM in the AK-74. And in order for the accuracy of automatic firing from it to look at least slightly decent, the cartridge was weakened to the limit. As a result, the SA did not go into service with the army, but the AK-74 assault (weakened army) automatic rifle. It is understandable, because the AK on the cartridge of 7,62x39 mm was also not an army, but an assault (weakened army) weapon. And its automation was sharpened just for that.
        Quote: Niccola Mack
        And now they consider the intermediate cartridge for assault rifles to be the standard - and they are usually used for shooting people.

        Do not confuse the 7,62x39 mm intermediate cartridge with modern intermediate cartridges. They are too different in principle of action.
        1. Niccola Mack 5 October 2016 23: 20 New
          • 7
          • 0
          +7
          Such pictures on the Internet can really be found.
          And you can also:

          Then an interesting question - why not the AK-49 ?, because officially it was adopted for service in 1949.
          And because AK-47 is the designation of an automatic machine for military tests, there was AK-46 (No. 1,2,3) AK-47 (No. 1,2) and a sample of 48 years.
          And after being adopted by the order of the GRAU of July 18, 1949, in which it was written in black and white “to adopt a Kalashnikov assault rifle of caliber 7,62x39 called AK” - this sample was to be called “AK” and nothing else.
          And this brochure is called not a manual, but a short guide to the service.
          There was nothing much to instruct yet.
          Here are two quotes from Monetchikov’s book. The history of the Russian machine gun:
          In the summer of 1948, a series of AK-47 products was manufactured and sent for testing ....
          In June of that year, AK-47 assault rifles entered military trials in the Moscow, Leningrad, and Central Asian military districts.


          A well-deserved result of the many years of efforts of our military, weapons designers, engineers, technologists and workers was the adoption of the machine gun for the Soviet Army in 1949 under the designation "7,62 mm Kalashnikov assault rifle (AK)",


          By the way, absolutely the same story with SCS. It was called on military trials (there was still a war) SKS-45, but it was adopted for service in the same 49 under the name "SKS".

          DEP "worthless" was MP40 was a little more than 60 m. DEP "beautiful and magnificent" PPSh a little less than 35 meters. What do you find in this good?


          Do not talk nonsense, you seem to be well acquainted with the history of weapons.
          Purely passport characteristics - initial speed:
          Thompson PP - 280 m / s
          MP-40 - 380 m / s
          PPSh-41 - 500 m / s
          Better remember how the Wehrmacht officers tearfully begged to release the MP-40 with a stationary butt and used PPSh with might and main.
          And also remember the American classics Thin Red Line, All-Metal Shell, Platoon, Apocalypse Today. Super Thompson is practically invisible - everyone is armed with either Garand, or M14, or M16, but in the jungle it is a terrible weapon.
          Who is armed in the "Red Line" by Thompson is the foreman (for the Yusovtsy - a sergeant) of the company Sean Pen, who does not need him at all. And even the officers run with Garand. There is nothing to be done - the states of armament.
          That's how the Americans evaluated Thompson (like the M3).
          And for some reason, during the war, companies were created in us, completely armed with PPSh - and no one complained. On the contrary, for motorized rifles and assault groups, he was almost the best weapon.

          I don’t even want to comment on the last two paragraphs - they are so wild.
          I want you to just remember the photos and videos of those who really fight - all sorts of "liberation fronts" and those who beat them around the world - with which they are overwhelmingly armed.
          FN FAL, G3, and AK in all modifications, types and releases.
          And the principle of operation for all unitary cartridges of the central battle is one.
          1. rjxtufh 6 October 2016 08: 18 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            And you can also:

            This is an AK manual. Following, after AK-47, models. Then there was AKM.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            Then an interesting question - why not the AK-49?

            This is not a question for me.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            And after being adopted by the order of the GRAU of July 18, 1949, in which it was written in black and white “to adopt a Kalashnikov assault rifle of caliber 7,62x39 called AK” - this sample was to be called “AK” and nothing else.

            For all three models, the performance characteristics are slightly different. In particular, n / s bullets and DE.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            It was called on military trials (there was still a war) SKS-45, but it was adopted for service in the same 49 under the name "SKS".

            SCS arr. 49g was on all known cartridge 7,62x39 mm. Earlier samples were on a different cartridge.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            Do not talk nonsense, you seem to be well acquainted with the history of weapons.

            Seems alright. And I don’t carry it.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            Purely passport characteristics - initial speed:
            Thompson PP - 280 m / s
            MP-40 - 380 m / s
            PPSh-41 - 500 m / s

            What did you lead to?
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            Better remember how the Wehrmacht officers tearfully begged to release the MP-40 with a stationary butt

            Have you been begged? MP40 was an auxiliary weapon of the Wehrmacht. As befits a submachine gun. A kind of quick-fire pistol. Butt was lost to nothing. The Germans made such a model, but it did not take root due to uselessness.
            The fact that in the Red Army there were companies of machine gunners was a disaster, not a reason for pride. While such a company was approaching the German infantry company in battle to the distance of the PPSh DEP (about 35 m), there was not much left of it. The German Mauser DEP rifle is over 500 m. But there was always another company in stock. And further.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            and with might and main used PPSh

            The Germans even used three-rulers of 19th century production. called Gewehr 252 (this is the Russian trilinear M-91 and the Yugoslav Puska M91R). Weapons were not enough.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            Super Thompson is practically invisible - everyone is armed with either Garand, or M14, or M16, but in the jungle it is a terrible weapon.

            M16, this is Thompson’s niche. Those. M16 in Vietnam was INSTEAD OF THOMPSON. Still experimental, in those days. And of course, cooler than Thompson.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            That's how the Americans evaluated Thompson (like the M3).

            I did not understand the "deep thought". Normally they evaluated him. He survived the modernization under the cartridge .45 ACP + R. He stood in service until the 60s, until the M16 was replaced. Actually, from the point of view of consumer qualities, the M16 is how the Americans corrected some of Thompson's basically uncorrectable jambs by approaching the issue in an unconventional way (using a new type of cartridge). And so, ideologically, M16, this, to put it bluntly, is advanced Thompson. Those. both SMG. And since they managed to pull the TTX of the “advanced Thompson M16” to the level they needed, the need for the M14 disappeared by itself.
            Unlike the "great and mighty" weapons on a cartridge of 7,62x25 mm. Which trampled from the army in the 50s. As a clear substandard.
            Of course, they didn’t bother with any crap like weapons on the classic intermediate cartridge. It was only to the illiterate Bolsheviks that such a "brilliant idea" could have occurred.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            for some reason, during the war, companies were created in us, completely armed with PPSh - and no one complained.

            They did not have time. They quickly perished.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            for motorized rifles and assault groups, he was almost the best weapon.

            This is not infantry. Do not confuse soft with warm.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            than they are overwhelmingly armed.

            They do not look at a given horse's teeth.
            Quote: Niccola Mack
            And the principle of operation for all unitary cartridges of the central battle is one.

            Learn the materiel. Then you will understand how the classic cartridge differs from modern "small things". There is a completely different principle of the bullet. And completely different terminal ballistics. Those. these are completely different cartridges. Basically.
            1. Niccola Mack 6 October 2016 11: 23 New
              • 2
              • 0
              +2
              Well, I basically thought so!

              I just want to ask 2 questions:

              M16, that’s Thompson’s niche

              It is somehow strange that the American infantrymen during World War II and Korea were not at least 80 armed with Tommigan and M3 (as I understand it, the M3 is also Thompson's niche).
              For some reason, the infantry units were in the M1 state (Garand and BabyGarand) in WWII and M14, and the same BabyGarnad in Korea.
              By the way, about Thompson's longevity - this is an American old tradition - until a roasted cock bites his ass, everyone moves badly. And then they begin to collect the commissions of the Congress - according to Garand, according to M16, etc. Remember how much the M1911 was in service, and the M2 Browning still stands now. But the M60 has gone somewhere.

              And I repeat the second question, how do you still divide the cartridges into "combat", "sports" and "hunting".
            2. rjxtufh 6 October 2016 12: 13 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              Quote: Niccola Mack
              during the Second World War, and the Korean infantrymen were not at least 80 armed with Tommigan and M3

              What for? Tommy Ghans and M3 were not the main, but auxiliary army weapons. Well, something like what the Germans were MP40.
              But only because of the weak cartridge for the final performance characteristics of the MP40 were weak PP. And the Tommy Ghans, because of the good cartridge, were actually machine gun carbines. B this despite the pistol cartridge.
              In general, the Tommy Ghans, due to their excellent performance characteristics, replaced the M1 Carbine carbines and M2 Carbine submachine guns from the army.
              Quote: Niccola Mack
              For some reason, the infantry units were in the M1 state (Garand and BabyGarand) in WWII and M14, and the same BabyGarnad in Korea.

              Why "for some reason"? It was a full-time army weaponry.
              Quote: Niccola Mack
              By the way, about Thompson's longevity - this is an American old tradition - until a roasted cock bites his ass, everyone moves badly.

              You're dramatizing. And today, Thompson's SMG is still very good. Just M16A2, better. Much better. In general, of course, the creation of the M16 is a revolution in shooting. The rest can only catch up. With a different result.
              Quote: Niccola Mack
              And I repeat the second question, how do you still divide the cartridges into "combat", "sports" and "hunting".

              Not military, but army. Because any cartridge can kill a person. And even a pebble from a slingshot.
              For starters, I do not share ammo categories.
              And then, everything is simple. A bullet of an air-conditioned army cartridge at a given range (depending on the type of weapon) with a quality hit (not through, not on a tangent) should GUARANTEED to hit the human central nervous system. At the same time, the bullet will get into the LRA or not, it does not matter.
              For the main army individual automatic weapons, such a range (DEP) is set at 450 m. For self-loading, 400 m. For an army pistol - 50 m. Etc. for all types of shooting.
              For reference, the TT DEP pistol is 0 (zero) m. Even a point-blank shot did not guarantee anything. For PPSh, about 35 m (norm for PP 100 m). For AK-47 / AK / AKM - 300 m (the norm I mentioned a little higher, this is 400 m), from this AK-47 / AK / AKM, this is an assault (weakened army) SELF-LOADED rifle with the possibility of automatic fire (SFAR). In this case, aiming automatic fire is possible at a range of about 100 m, i.e. PP is integrated in a self-loading assault rifle. As an option. But this is NOT a full automatic weapon. Only AK-74 became such a weapon.
            3. Droid 7 October 2016 08: 01 New
              • 3
              • 0
              +3
              Quote: rjxtufh
              This is an AK manual. Following, after AK-47, models.

              You, as usual, carry garbage. And if you were distracted from bearing garbage and downloaded this manual and looked at its output, you would see that it was signed in print 11 May 1949, and the machine was adopted by September 1949 and the resolution indicated the name of the sample - AK. Since then there have been no AK-47s.
            4. rjxtufh 7 October 2016 08: 13 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              Quote: Droid
              You, as usual, carry garbage.

              I do not have your habits.
              Quote: Droid
              And if you were distracted from carrying garbage and downloaded this manual

              Here, download and see.
              N / s AK-47 bullet 700 m / s.
              N / s AK (initial version) 710 m / s.
              Guess what this says?
              Accordingly, different DE.
              Learn, Droid. Including correct communication.
          2. Hapfri 6 October 2016 08: 47 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Better remember how the Wehrmacht officers tearfully begged to release the MP-40 with a stationary butt and used PPSh with might and main.

            My grandfather preferred a German submachine gun throughout the war. Just because he was lighter. But he was an officer.
            MP-40 with a butt existed.
            Plus, there were previous versions of MP 28, Austrian assault rifles, also with a butt, more common among the SS men
            1. Bloodsucker 6 October 2016 09: 13 New
              • 2
              • 0
              +2
              He served in the police with the Germans, judging at least by anti-Soviet and anti-Russian statements?
              Then it’s clear what the MP was shy of.
            2. Niccola Mack 6 October 2016 11: 33 New
              • 1
              • 0
              +1
              MP-40 with a butt existed.

              It was released at the request of the war veterans, but did not get to the front. A total of about 50 were issued.
              It was called MP-41. And modernized by H. Schmeisser (patent).

              And according to this model, they began to call MP-38, MP-40 and MP-41 "Schmeisser"
              The soldiers of the second and fifth on the right:
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. gladcu2 23 January 2017 17: 57 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              Hapfri

              Mp-40, no easier than PPSh. And the size is not less, if you fold the butt.
              You can shoot with the MP-40 without a butt only at 5 meters. Blasts it when shooting without a butt very much.
              In photographs of World War II, it is often seen that the Germans walked with their butt out of their mouth.

              To say, the MP-40 had an advantage over the PCA, well, it’s somehow hard to find. To be honest, probably not possible.
      3. unknown 6 October 2016 09: 01 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        In an early article, there was even a photo of the manual, where the AK-47 was written in black and white.
    2. avt
      avt 5 October 2016 19: 55 New
      • 3
      • 0
      +3
      Quote: rjxtufh
      Because the pistol "works" on the pistol cartridge, and carbines on carbine cartridges.

      wassat laughing Do you actually read what you write ?? It’s good that they’re not carbite cartridges laughing
      Quote: rjxtufh
      Also in Russia (USSR), rifles on a rifle cartridge are commonly called rifles.

      Well, thanks for at least
      Quote: rjxtufh
      on a rifle cartridge.

      And not screw. But the fountain of thoughts of course ..... rushing is not childish laughing Especially about
      Quote: rjxtufh
      Therefore, most of the inhabitants do not even suspect the existence of such.

      Thank you - enlightened especially about the alteration ..... probably revolver cartridges in carbine
      Quote: rjxtufh
      Although, what is the zigzag of history, the sleeve for the carbine cartridge in the USSR has been produced for many years in series.
      and now they reached bullets from the TT for a true carbine!
      laughing
      1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 20: 00 New
        • 5
        • 0
        +5
        Phew ... ABT, now will you be giving this "expert" a lecture?
        Ask him the question, what non-combustible fractions in 41, did the Germans decompose gas ... or he gave out here recently, but he couldn’t prove it ... apparently the style is the same with pistol patches and carbine bullets ...
        1. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 20: 09 New
          • 2
          • 0
          +2
          Quote: The Bloodthirster
          Ask him the question, what non-combustible fractions in 41, did the Germans decompose gas ... or he gave out here recently

          How are you feeling? I never wrote anything on such topics.
          Get well ...
          1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 20: 18 New
            • 4
            • 0
            +4
            https://topwar.ru/101470-katastrofa-krasnoy-armii
            -pod-vyazmoy-i-bryanskom.html # comment-id-6276671
            how is it that you here together with Hapfrey carried such nonsense.
            Be afraid, otherwise you have a direct craving for classifying what is already without you, and much more intelligent people are sorted into classes ..
            Quote: rjxtufh
            Quote: rjxtufh
            Because the pistol "works" on the pistol cartridge, and carbines on carbine cartridges.

            Be treated.
            No paid work for 30 pieces of silver adds health.
            1. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 20: 23 New
              • 1
              • 0
              +1
              Quote: The Bloodthirster
              how is it that you here together with Hapfrey carried such nonsense.

              Yeah. Already not me, already a couple.
              And the three of us with Churchill, I probably made a speech in Fulton.
              You are caught in a lie, dear. And juggling. Right by the hand. That's it.
              Quote: The Bloodthirster
              Be treated.
              No paid work for 30 pieces of silver adds health.

              Do you know from your own experience?
              That's what I look at, with your health is not very good.
            2. Hapfri 6 October 2016 08: 58 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              how is it that you here together with Hapfrey carried such nonsense.

              Long time ago you didn’t copy-paste your garbage here.
              Let's dump a couple of pages from the guide “To help the rural agitator” of the 56th year of publication.
              No paid work for 30 pieces of silver

              You are here from morning till night. How do you go to work here.
              Who now sponsors the Bolsheviks? Prokhorov?
              You are against the current order. So your closest ally is Gozman and Parnassus. And from there, and to German money is not far. Like in the old days.
          2. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 10 New
            • 3
            • 0
            +3
            Quote: rjxtufh
            I never wrote anything on such topics.

            This, perhaps, another acrobat expressed the same, your twin brother Hampree? Easy to confuse you laughing

            Although, the inability to remember your own words and answer for them both of you also happens lol
          3. Amurets 6 October 2016 01: 22 New
            • 5
            • 0
            +5
            Quote: rjxtufh
            How are you feeling? I never wrote anything on such topics.
            Get well ...

            Look, mister "stoker" do not put out the boilers! The bloodsucker gave a link where you showed your ignorance, but here are links to German synthetic fuel.
            http://csef.ru/media/articles/1430/1430.pdf
            http://nnm.me/blogs/teufel65/sostoyanie_s_toplivo
            m_v_nacistkoy_germanii_v_period_1933 _-_ 1945_chast
            _2 /
            1. rjxtufh 6 October 2016 08: 26 New
              • 1
              • 0
              +1
              Quote: Amurets
              The bloodsucker gave a link where you showed your ignorance

              But why lie?
              The bloodsucker claimed a lot. For example, the fact that in Fulton I delivered a speech with Churchill. What to take from him. Apparently ill.
              Quote: Amurets
              here are links to German synthetic fuel.

              I do not understand this, therefore, I do not write on these topics. And your links are not interesting to me.
        2. avt
          avt 5 October 2016 21: 29 New
          • 4
          • 0
          +4
          Quote: The Bloodthirster
          Ask him the question, what non-combustible fractions in 41, did the Germans decompose gas ...

          But no! Throw it to me! So you’ll break off all the fun - the guys will shut up, so the site can’t be refined for the most, well, not a single banderlog, de-stabilizer-libertarium can be found. And here such luck! laughing
          1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 21: 37 New
            • 3
            • 0
            +3
            Oh laughing ... call me, I didn’t think about it ... really, what fun without Svidomo banderlog with his dances ?? yes
      2. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 20: 13 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: avt
        Do you actually read what you write ?? It’s good that they’re not carbite cartridges

        Your incompetence doesn’t bother me. Go on ...
        Quote: avt
        And not screw. But the fountain of thoughts of course ..... rushing is not childishly laughing Especially about

        As I understand it, you deign to be a fool? Or is this your usual state?
        Quote: avt
        Thank you - enlightened

        No, not enlightened. You are hopeless.
        Quote: avt
        and now they reached bullets from the TT for a true carbine!

        Are you there? Where did you go? Where did they go?
        Turn home. Cold shower and sleep. And in the morning - cucumber pickle.
        1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 20: 25 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          Quote: rjxtufh
          As I understand it, you deign to be a fool? Or is this your usual state?

          Not ... this is your STATE. laughing
          1. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 20: 27 New
            • 2
            • 0
            +2
            Quote: The Bloodthirster
            Not ... this is your STATE.

            "The dog barks, the caravan goes." The proverb is such an eastern one. Pretty famous.
            1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 20: 39 New
              • 1
              • 0
              +1
              And why did you become like watchdog?
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Cold shower and sleep. And in the morning - cucumber pickle.

              Do you know by yourself?
              so you, before a cold shower and pickle your fantasies, are talking about carbine bullets and screw patrens, or after it ... or instead?
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Do not confuse the 7,62x39 mm intermediate cartridge with modern intermediate cartridges. They are too different in principle of action.

              Are they so different? Are we already hallucinating before blasters ??
              Quote: rjxtufh
              But the difference in class affected. The United States, after completing the M16A1 jambs, adopted a practically perfect army weapon (from the point of view of all three ballistics), an M16A2 automatic army rifle.

              Oh ... well, yes, well, yes, of course, enta is a fashionable piece of iron, in the face of battle, such a bum ... where are we with AK and AKM ...
              Despite significant modernization, today the M16A2 and A3 represent, according to American experts, an unpromising model that is inferior to the Russian AK74M in terms of safety, accuracy of burst fire, penetrative action and compactness. Extremely low service strength and reliability of automation, especially in difficult conditions. In conclusion, experts emphasized: the rifle is not suitable for hand-to-hand combat, and an accidental fall on a solid base can lead to the impossibility of its further combat use.
              Hence the conclusion - the rifle is unsuitable for a long autonomous campaign. Another "trifle": water when it enters the M16 trunk is not always shaken out in one motion due to its small diameter, large length and a peculiar type of rifling. As a result, the barrel breaks down after several (two or three) shots, and requires replacement. It is curious that the AK-74, with almost the same caliber, is completely devoid of this drawback ...
              https://topwar.ru/3053-kalashnikov-protiv-m16.htm
              l
              Well, if it’s not enough for you, you’ll have the coolest specialist in all matters, though without understanding anything at all, read on ..
              http://peresvet.gorod.tomsk.ru/index-1293163736.p
              hp
            2. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 20: 52 New
              • 1
              • 0
              +1
              Quote: The Bloodthirster
              So what are so different?

              Tell me at least one reason why I should educate incompetent boors like you?
        2. avt
          avt 5 October 2016 21: 26 New
          • 4
          • 0
          +4
          Quote: rjxtufh
          No, not enlightened. You are hopeless.

          laughing There are already so many, where you are. laughing But it was even better to watch the creators of the “carabiner" cartridges see. One of them was registering an invention, well, I wanted to get an author’s certificate and 25 rubles in addition to a frying pan in a frying pan. So I drew a frying pan with holes, they say it’s necessary to drill, drain the water and immediately fry. in order not to burn, you need to take a pan with a Teflon coating. laughing And there were even cooler inventors, before these you still have to study and study with carabiner cartridges, and graduate from the institute. Serbian, the inventor sent to VNIIGPE an application for a typewriter for .... remaking girls into women! Yes, and made a postscript, ,, I can’t bring in mind the pornographic nature " laughing
          Quote: rjxtufh
          "The dog barks, the caravan goes." The proverb is such an eastern one. Pretty famous.

          laughing And there was such a caravan! Invented a harness for staging a horse behind a cart fool laughing
          1. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 21: 44 New
            • 1
            • 0
            +1
            Quote: avt
            But it was also possible to watch abruptly the creators of ,, carabiner "cartridges

            Here you can see the carabiner cartridge:
            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Carbine
            And here you can see the carbine, which is carbine, not short rifle:
            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Carbine
            Learn, avt. Maybe something and learn.
            1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 21: 50 New
              • 2
              • 0
              +2
              Learn.
              http://www.nastavleniya.ru/OO/oo1.htm
              And don't write nonsense anymore. Funny.
            2. Niccola Mack 6 October 2016 06: 06 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              Dear "rjxtuft" (although judging by the comments, no one already thinks so), if the type of weapon is determined based on the name of the cartridge, then the expressions "breed like rabbits" will be too weak.
              The same Wiki about your .30 Carbine:
              .30 Short,
              .30 Court,
              .30 Garand,
              .30-M1,
              US Carbine .30
              There was a "short rifle", "judicial (or courtyard) rifle" and "Garavanavsky rifle".

              8 * 50 mm R Mannlicher, 7.65 * 53 Argentino, 8 * 50 mm R Lebel, 6,5 × 50 mm Arisaka, 7,62 * 51 NATO - got it?
              And obviously, according to your classification, 6,5 * 54 Manlicher-Shenauer and 6,5 * 52 Manlicher-Carcano are absolutely two different types.

              But here's what I don’t understand at all - how you so confidently share sporting, hunting and fighting cartridges.
              Can share the system?
            3. rjxtufh 6 October 2016 08: 42 New
              • 1
              • 0
              +1
              Quote: Niccola Mack
              although judging by the comments, no one already thinks so

              "Nobody," who is this? A bunch of local hooligan schoolchildren who are inadequate?
              I don’t even read their comments. And I do not advise you. You still don’t learn anything from them. And spoil your eyes.
              Quote: Niccola Mack
              There was a "short rifle", "judicial (or courtyard) rifle" and "Garavanavsky rifle".

              In the army it is customary to use an army rifle. And what can be in commercial sale there is another conversation.
              Quote: Niccola Mack
              8 * 50 mm R Mannlicher, 7.65 * 53 Argentino, 8 * 50 mm R Lebel, 6,5 × 50 mm Arisaka, 7,62 * 51 NATO - got it?

              Did not enter. And I did not understand your deep thought.
              By the way, even before the start of the 2MV, armies of the whole world refused cartridges in the caliber of 6,5 mm, as substandard for its purposes. But the Italians used such weapons, because did not have time to rearm.
              Quote: Niccola Mack
              But here's what I don’t understand at all - how you so confidently share sporting, hunting and fighting cartridges.

              Because army cartridges, these are the same hunting cartridges, but for "game" of absolutely certain sizes. They must satisfy a number of specific requirements. Of course, you can go on such a "game" with hunting weapons designed for an elephant. But it will be stupid, because need to fight, as cheap as possible. Otherwise, the winner risks losing his pants.
              The same applies to army weapons. It is essentially hunting, but specific. A completely different operating mode.
              And only the combination of a special cartridge with a special weapon gives the result a high-quality army weapon. And not just that, just to shoot.
              In RI, they understood this. Therefore, the cartridge was adopted 7,62x54 R. The USSR did not understand this. And for all the time of its existence, NO ONE full-fledged army cartridge for small arms was adopted. All Soviet "army cartridges", this is a tough substandard. Unless the PM (and its cartridge) is not bad, like a "police pistol."
            4. avt
              avt 6 October 2016 08: 59 New
              • 3
              • 0
              +3
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Learn, avt. Maybe something and learn.

              No-ee-ee! This is how you yourself at the Serbsky Institute on Wikipedia pass each other to Napoleon and Chapaev, and I’ll somehow stay with the “soviet” education. laughing
              Quote: rjxtufh
              "Nobody," who is this? A bunch of local hooligan schoolchildren who are inadequate?
              I don’t even read their comments.

              good Just what I’m writing on Wikipedia is I reading ?? laughing Well now it’s time about the cut-off cartridges for the “trim” laughing
            5. rjxtufh 6 October 2016 10: 09 New
              • 2
              • 0
              +2
              Quote: avt
              No-ee-ee!

              Now, if you have nothing to say, why do you continue to shove verbal diarrhea?
              And I do not write to Wikipedia, I do not have such a habit.
      3. gladcu2 23 January 2017 18: 36 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        avt

        Yes, it’s Troll.

        PPSh, gradually removed from service with the transition to a new cartridge. Since the AK series, has become a universal platform.

        Presented to third world countries for political support. Not without charge.

        Thompson, redone with civilian weapons. After a minor alteration, the army tried to retract. Then these freaks were replaced by gnaws. The name went because of the external similarity of the grease nipple for injected grease. grease- grease type solid oil.

        The same M-16 is an attempt to draw in the army civilian AR-15 weapons. It falls short of the army, in view of the poor reliability in the field, the difficulties of leaving, the rapid contamination of powder gases due to the absurdity of gas automation.

        The American army in World War II, the Germans themselves compared with the army of unorganized cowboys, mocking them in every possible way.

        In the U.S. small arms, there is not a single prominent representative worthy of respect in army user characteristics. We can only talk about cult patterns. By virtue of mass use. For example, Colt 1911. This is culture. Army weapons can be called Colt 1911, Garand M-1, Springfield, Gryzgan, Thompson in the version of deep remake of Tommigan.
    3. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 21: 08 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      I had to answer a little higher than expected in response to your rudeness.
      WHERE is the answer to this statement when you tried to tell the tale of the “most beautiful M16”?

      Another "trifle": water when it enters the M16 trunk is not always shaken out in one motion due to its small diameter, large length and a peculiar type of rifling. As a result, the barrel breaks down after several (two or three) shots, and requires replacement. It is curious that the AK-74, with almost the same caliber, is completely devoid of this drawback ...
      https://topwar.ru/3053-kalashnikov-protiv-m16.htm
      l
      Well, if it’s not enough for you, you’ll have the coolest specialist in all matters, though without understanding anything at all, read on ..
      http://peresvet.gorod.tomsk.ru/index-1293163736.p
      hp
      WHERE'S THE ANSWER?
      You still try to squeeze your dirty insinuations here about the allegedly AK-fruit of the work that does not know what the blueprints are, Hugo Schmeisek, you will become.

      Do not shy away from the topic, Mr. rjxtufh, you’ve lied about rudeness, you’re the most important one, you distort, don’t answer clearly uncomfortable questions, write frankly stupid comments that make no sense.
  4. Vladimirets 5 October 2016 16: 06 New
    • 3
    • 0
    +3
    In the third photo, just a Mauser under a 9mm cartridge, as evidenced by the red nine on the handle.
    1. Raphael_83 5 October 2016 18: 15 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      Yes, it was actually called "Red Nine". This version is popular with collectors and connoisseurs due to the relatively small released quantity (relative to the original caliber).
      From SW. hi
      PS
      It is a pity that the author did not say a word about the Spanish copies and conversions of "bolo", of which there were ... darkness and darkness - different companies (the same "Astra"), design, quality (more often than not) and calibers. Maybe I'm in a hurry and will be continued? Then sorry. recourse
      PPS
      A good article with excellent photo material about the "Spaniards", who are interested in: http://historypistols.ru/blog/pistolety-pod-unita
      rnyj-patron-avtomaticheskie / kopii-i-prototipy-pis
      toletov-mauzer-k-96-ispanskogo-proizvodstva /
      1. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 55 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        There were also Chinese copies, and several different ones, with their rather interesting stories. And in the 30s they were noted there, and in the post-war.
    2. gladcu2 23 January 2017 18: 49 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Thanks to the author.

      By Mauser, you can add the following.

      In general, the model went very hard to the masses. The army did not buy in large quantities. The civilian population is also not very. But the Mauser gained fame only with a large batch of purchases by the Soviet government. Therefore, the Mauser received the prefix "Bolo". From the word Bolsheviks.

      I watched the review on YouTube by some Americans. To say that the Mauser is good, as a weapon can be tight. On the C grade. Shooting for accuracy is very critical. The Americans issued a verdict that you can confidently hit targets with a butt fastened at 100 m. Further, over 100 m, the scatter is large. Whether it takes time to aim. Either hurry, the shooting went past the target.

      Automatic shooting, in general caused extreme criticism. Yes, and without cartridges left instantly. Recharging is difficult. And it's scary when the shutter flickers in your face.
  5. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 16: 25 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: Yuferev Sergey
    Hunters, explorers, travelers and bandits

    In fact, Borchard and Mauser in this caliber were positioned and in fact were hunting weapons (for small dysi).
    It was only the illiterate Bolsheviks who thought of dragging him into the army. And then, when they ran out of ammunition, buy a cartridge factory for their ridiculous, but very pathos farting (Mauser-Bolo). Well, and then, on top of insanity, to adopt the "army pistol" on a sports cartridge 7,62x25 mm TT. And, like an apotheosis, starting to make funny PP on the same cartridge. Calling it all a miracle "army weapon."
    Quote: Yuferev Sergey
    When firing from a distance of 50 meters, the bullet penetrated a 225 mm thick bar without problems, and at a distance of 200 meters a 145 mm thick bar.

    Is this a virtue? There were no bronziers then. There was nothing to punch. Just invented dignity.
    Quote: Yuferev Sergey
    Also, the disadvantages could be attributed to the fact that after 20 shots the pistol barrel was already very hot, and after 100 it was simply impossible to touch it with a hand.

    Is this a flaw? What kind of shooting gophers and jerboas bursts? Invented flaw.
    Quote: Yuferev Sergey
    The effective range of a pistol with a butt attached to it reached 200-300 meters.

    You specify, according to gophers and jerboas. For a person, the DEP was 0 (zero) meters. Those. even a point-blank shot did not guarantee anything.
    Quote: Yuferev Sergey
    Despite the fact that the pistol was almost not in service as the main model in any army in the world

    So nowhere except for the Red Army "gramatey" was not found.
    In the German army, the Mausers were armed with a 9 mm caliber (nine on the handle) on a 9x25 mm cartridge. A small amount, because despite the caliber correct for the army, their power was excessive.
    1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 20: 05 New
      • 4
      • 0
      +4
      Oh!
      Wow ... it’s a storehouse of remarkable genius insights ..
      Do not tell me in what, undoubtedly the best higher school, have you taken such meaningful looks?
      In particular, can you tell me why such a demon, the Wehrmacht soldiers, were happy to change their MP farts to PPSh? The cartridge is there ... "sporty" ..
      Yes, by the way, you don’t want to work as a target — you will be equipped with the NATO’s most super duper body armor, and I’ll shoot with TT, though I will not pay for treatment.
      Let us verify your undoubtedly masterful statements that everything was done wrong in the USSR.
      1. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 20: 16 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        Quote: The Bloodthirster
        Oh!

        Again this one is pinned up. Well, why did you cancel the emergency?
        Quote: The Bloodthirster
        Wehrmacht soldiers, happy to change their MP farts, on the PCA?

        Did you come up with this yourself? And about the "pleasure", they themselves told you? In your dreams?
        I recommend strengthening emotions. Then write, "were ecstatic from the happiness of owning PPSh." With a hint of unhealthy autophilia.
        Quote: The Bloodthirster
        you will be equipped in the most super duper NATO body armor

        Please indicate on what fronts these NATO body armor was used. And in what quantities.
        1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 21: 34 New
          • 3
          • 0
          +3
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Again this one is pinned up. Well, why did you cancel the emergency?

          That's why the cons were canceled?
          Quote: rjxtufh
          I recommend strengthening emotions.

          Indeed, something is depressed, higher, jump higher and more often, more fun and hectic, you will be happy in fantasies on the theme of carbine bullets and vintage patrons.
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Please indicate on what fronts these NATO body armor was used. And in what quantities.

          Tell me how TT, PPSh on the "sports" cartridges interfered with the task of landing the fascist on the ground.
          And at the same time try on the NATO body armor, then ask HAMPRI to shoot, then let him send the epitaph .... he lived, wrote ... but alas, he never guessed ..
  6. marshes 5 October 2016 16: 35 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    He used to kill time by looking at the "encyclopedia" for criminologists, by the way a limited edition. Then I realized that Mauser was not only produced in caliber 7,63x25, but also many pistols. The late grandfather, a veteran, as he wanted, tales, such a barrel with bring wars, they say cartridges from TT are suitable.
    Mauser BOLO thing.
    1. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 16: 39 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Quote: marshes
      Mauser BOLO thing.

      The rubbish is complete. Sanction cut. Solid show-offs. Even TT is better. Much.
      1. marshes 5 October 2016 16: 50 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        Quote: rjxtufh
        The rubbish is complete. Sanction cut. Solid show-offs. Even TT is better. Much.

        What are you talking about the legendary pistol, everyone dreamed of getting it, from the infantryman to the generals.
        By the way, according to the star of one Hero of the Soviet Union, they showed. A fighter pilot, but the penalty company got from behind Mauser, the special officer had this kind of gun.
        After the war, my grandfather regretted that he had not taken it out of the war, he considered it a very convenient gun. Probably because of the stock, he was a carbine for up to 62 years old, then they seized and shot a single-barrel gun. 16 Grandfather’s brother flew to Boston A-20, Colt 45, the same Mauser was delighted.
        He himself did not hold in his hands, except for Nagan and TT, those years.
        1. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 16: 55 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          Quote: marshes
          everyone dreamed of getting him, from an infantryman to generals.

          The military are generally special people. And their mods are special. And manners.
          In this case, of course, we must distinguish between Mauser and Mauser Bolo.
          1. marshes 5 October 2016 17: 05 New
            • 1
            • 0
            +1
            Quote: rjxtufh
            In this case, of course, we must distinguish between Mauser and Mauser Bolo.

            So what?
            Mauser, in our concept this is Mauser Bolo, the Bolshevik. And not Marauder 98K Carabiner, it seems. My grandfather had a cavalry Mosinka, 7.62x54 smile
            Sam, from spring, user 7.62x39 Ruger Mini smile I have long dreamed of it, with the seizure of poachers in the border zone. laughing Although he’s for hunting, he’s not very good game. I respect the double-barreled shotguns.
            1. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 17: 07 New
              • 1
              • 0
              +1
              Quote: marshes
              Mauser, in our concept this is Mauser Bolo, the Bolshevik. And not Carabiner Mauser 98 K

              No. The regular Mauser C96 and Mauser M1921 "Bolo" are different models.
              An analogue of the M1921 "Bolo" model is the M1920 "French Police Contract" model for the French gendarmerie. It is clearly seen that the gun is never an army.
  7. marshes 5 October 2016 17: 17 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    rjxtufh,
    Because of the barrel length? For me, Mauser at 7.63 (7.62) x25 in caliber remains the Bolshevik. 140 and 99.
  8. igordok 5 October 2016 17: 21 New
    • 7
    • 0
    +7
    There was already an interesting article on VO about the Mauser pistol (https://topwar.ru/95824-mauzer.html), with a bunch of comments and photos. About a good thing, there is not much. Thank you for the article.
    In WWI, with a shortage of aircraft weapons, even so Mauser was used.

    Ten Mauser C96 pistols arranged to defend an Austro-Hungarian reconnaissance aircraft, 1917.
    1. Mikado 5 October 2016 17: 49 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      self-loading mitraliasis? wassat Well, I say, the need for inventions is cunning (especially when you want to live) good
      1. Raphael_83 5 October 2016 18: 23 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: Mikado
        gimmick

        Yeah, the Austro-Hungarian letnaba was especially cunning when the ammunition was used up - reloading (if it came to it of course) was, I feel, even more sophisticated. yes
        1. Mikado 5 October 2016 20: 37 New
          • 2
          • 0
          +2
          sophisticated perversion wassat Damn, and on the other hand, there is a Nagan revolver. It is recharged on one cartridge. Whether you manage to reload it in battle is a big question.
          strange, the turret of this comrade, it seems, is not homemade. Didn’t have a machine gun? Mausers must have been an expensive pleasure to set in such numbers.
    2. sandrmur76 5 October 2016 18: 07 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Yes, there are many modifications of the Mauser. There was also an assault And marine with a long barrel. But still, it’s grumpy.
  9. Mikado 5 October 2016 17: 47 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    what good articles in the section today! In principle, everything is as usual! reading is a pleasure.
  10. cap
    cap 5 October 2016 17: 51 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    What to say. Mauser in Russia has become a legendary weapon.
    The article has given a lot of new.
    Author ++ hi
  11. andrewkor 5 October 2016 18: 23 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Reading in childhood, "Captain Tear Off," admired this very S-96! In some places, there’s a poem about this gun!
  12. murriou 5 October 2016 20: 40 New
    • 3
    • 0
    +3
    Quote: rjxtufh
    There are no carbine pistols in wildlife.

    And the men didn’t know. The whole world is out of step, only one you are in the leg, as always! lol
    Thank you for coming here. to amuse Enlighten us with your wondrous discoveries in the classification of weapons! laughing
    1. rjxtufh 5 October 2016 20: 48 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Quote: murriou
      And the men didn’t know.

      Here. and the second pulled himself up. Now another third will come forward and will be in full compliance.
      You can start another circus performance.
      1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 20: 51 New
        • 4
        • 0
        +4
        Quote: rjxtufh
        You can start another circus performance.

        Get started.
        It is always fun when someone, from himself, builds a clown, and even a know-it-all clown, it is so entertaining in the study of new myths from Westerners, gossip and rumors.
        Jump again, this is so entertaining ...
  13. murriou 5 October 2016 20: 45 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: andrewkor
    Reading in childhood, "Captain Tear Off," admired this very S-96! In some places, there’s a poem about this gun!

    You made a mistake, and you made a big mistake laughing
    Those Mausers that were praised by Bussenard are the M-Mauser rifles C-98.

    Including this can be seen from their performance characteristics cited there - which at the same time indicate that in the Boer war the old blunt bullets with increased weight and reduced initial speed (640 m / s) were used for Mauser rifles, in relation to the more pointed pointed bullets.
  14. murriou 5 October 2016 20: 50 New
    • 4
    • 0
    +4
    Quote: rjxtufh
    the pistol "works" on the pistol cartridge, and carbines on carbine cartridges.

    You, as always, are on the run! Your entrance to the arena is always a celebration for understanding people! laughing

    Nothing so that the very concept of "carabiner cartridges" appeared on several. decades later than the carabiner pistols described here, and the carabiners as shortened rifles even earlier than the carbine pistols, which claimed to be similar to these carbines?
    1. Bloodsucker 5 October 2016 21: 00 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      We conduct the next educational program?
      This expert focus reminds me of someone ...
      Well, everywhere a mustache and understands everything, can we have an article about cucumbers and methods for preparing a brine, sbatsat, is he clearly an expert on this product?)))
  15. murriou 5 October 2016 20: 55 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    rifles on a rifle cartridge are commonly called rifles. Although it would be more correct to call them "sawn-off shotgun".

    Thanks for the next batch of fun! laughing

    In the rest of the world, unfamiliar with yours * original * и * non-traditional * theories, a sawn-off shotgun was called the alteration of a hunting rifle or rifle with a short-sawn trunk and a butt cut to the hilt.
    It was, as a rule, a bandit weapon, adapted in such a way for hidden wearing under clothes.

    And the carbines of the late 19th – mid-20th centuries had a barrel, although shorter than the usual rifle, but nevertheless usually reached 500-600mm, which is completely unacceptable for the cut-off, taking into account its purpose and specifics of use. And the butt of those carbines was ordinary, full.
  16. murriou 5 October 2016 20: 59 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: Niccola Mack
    The result is 7,62 * 39

    At first it was 7,62 * 41.
    Then the bullet was lengthened, the sleeve to save the total. lengths slightly shortened.
    1. Niccola Mack 8 October 2016 07: 29 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Initially, caliber 5,6-6,5-7,62 was laid down in the terms of reference (this is the question of the "sudden insight" of Americans with a 5,54 * 45 cartridge for the M16).
      Then, 7,62 * 41 (GRAU index “57-N-231”) was adopted as a model for the development of specific types of weapons.
      A new bullet was later developed. The new cartridge was adopted as 7,62 * 39 M43, but the GRAU index remained the same - and there were practically no differences in ballistics.
      Most likely, there were other samples of intermediate cartridges and experimental samples of weapons under them. It is also almost certain that there were experiments with other cartridges for SKS, AK and RPD already after taking them into service.
      It is a fact that nothing but 7,62 * 39 went into the series (to AK-74).
  17. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 01 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    Quote: Niccola Mack
    SCS even managed to participate in the Second World War

    Not just him. RPD-44 was the FIRST Soviet serial weapon under an intermediate cartridge.
  18. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 04 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    Apparently you confused them with Thompson's SMG. Here he is, despite the pistol cartridge, really went into a higher class.

    With a subsonic initial bullet speed and all the ensuing consequences, a higher one, aha-aha laughing
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 08 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    This is her problem. For promotional purposes, she could call him whatever

    Yeah, yeah, and the whole world picked up this terminology also for advertising purposes, forgetting to ask your highly intelligent advice. laughing

    But it seems to me that generally accepted terminology is much more authoritative than yours * very, very rich and non-traditional * fantasies.
    And your unfamiliarity with the generally accepted knowledge in the rest of the world is just your problems. Well, probably your doctor laughing
  21. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 12 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    Your incompetence doesn’t bother me.

    Oh, who would say that! (WITH) laughing Yours doesn’t even bother you lol
  22. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 13 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    You can start another circus performance.

    You can, you can! Well, you started it here a long time ago! Go on, maestro, go on, please! laughing good fellow
  23. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 19 New
    • 3
    • 0
    +3
    Quote: rjxtufh
    Tell me at least one reason why I should educate incompetent boors like you?

    Well, if you prefer always and everywhere to show yourself as an ignorant ignoramus, incapable of at least trying to justify your own nonsense - then they should not do anything to anyone.
    Well, except for your doctor for a particularly heavy load with such a patient laughing

    And your "competency", yes, is noticeable. Especially with your habit of measuring someone else’s competency solely by coincidence of other people's opinions with your fantasies, and never be able to confirm your fantasies with anything more worthy of respect. laughing
  24. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 52 New
    • 3
    • 0
    +3
    Quote: marshes
    TT cartridges are suitable.

    To some extent.

    In fact, when creating the TTs, they were guided by the M-Mauser ballistics of the S-96, and the TT cartridge 7,62 * 25 is the minimally modified Mauser cartridge 7,63 * 25.
    The alteration consisted of using a standard capsule from the Nagan cartridge and using a slightly increased charge of more “quick” gunpowder, so that with a shorter barrel, 116 mm, the initial speed would be obtained, like the original had 140 mm.

    As a result, the use of TT cartridges in a Mauser pistol led to accelerated barrel wear and USM. Many of the existing copies of museums have obvious signs of such use.
    In turn, Mauser cartridges could be used in TT pistols and Soviet PP, which the Germans often used for captured weapons.
    1. Mordvin 3 5 October 2016 22: 35 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      Quote: murriou
      You probably were lucky not to stumble upon this "expert" before

      And why is it removed? I’m at least a year old and have fun with him. belay
  25. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 57 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    Quote: rjxtufh
    Learn, avt. Maybe something and learn.

    Oh, who would say that! laughing
    Not that you are - it was said about a character similar to you: "such is smart that he reached perfection in his 16 years of age and will not go any further" (C) laughing
  26. murriou 5 October 2016 21: 59 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    Quote: rjxtufh
    In fact, Borchard and Mauser in this caliber were positioned and in fact were hunting weapons (for small dysi).

    This is a message that you really game. And not small, but especially large laughing

    Regarding the positioning of long-barrel carbine pistols as hunting weapons for small game, share the source of your * unprecedented * knowledge, huh?
  27. bbss 6 October 2016 00: 27 New
    • 4
    • 0
    +4
    And his father, the kingdom of heaven to him, praised the faculty. Tired of reading nonsense about carabiner cartridges, schmeissers and Thompson. And with SKS, I myself had the opportunity to serve. And he shot, and got where necessary. From the RPD, too, the target was leaking properly. They did without carabiner cartridges ...
    1. rjxtufh 6 October 2016 08: 51 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Quote: bbss
      And his father, the kingdom of heaven to him, praised the faculty.

      Weakly versed in weapons apparently.
      Quote: bbss
      And he shot, and got where necessary.

      Athletes need to shoot and hit. Soldiers have other goals and objectives when shooting. There is added the task of "destroy the enemy." And with this SCS and generally weapons on a cartridge of 7,62x39 mm copes poorly. For which he was expelled from the Soviet army.
      Quote: bbss
      They did without carabiner cartridges ...

      Carabiner cartridges in general in the armies of the world are practically not used. It was only the Americans who used them there for some reason during WW2.
      1. Bloodsucker 6 October 2016 09: 01 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: rjxtufh
        Athletes need to shoot and hit. Soldiers have other goals and objectives when shooting.

        Enchanting horse in a vacuum.
        And immediately
        Quote: rjxtufh
        There is added the task of "destroy the enemy"

        So the soldier needs to shoot at the target and fall into it and destroy it, right?
        And what are such in this case
        Quote: rjxtufh
        Soldiers have other goals and objectives when shooting.

        Still available?
        Judging by your lengthy comments, you have a direct illness, to write one, meaning the other, the output means the third, and the fourth one, immediately reset yourself, because by the fourth phase you don’t understand and don’t remember what you wrote in the first.
        So how are there carabinier patrons in your classification?
        Maybe you also have a vintage, pink color, there are fabulously invented tasks for you?
        Cartridges, depending on the type of weapon in which they are used, are divided into the following types:

        - pistol cartridges, designed for firing from personal weapons (from pistols and submachine guns).
        - revolving cartridges, also intended for firing from personal weapons (revolvers).
        - machine gun cartridges (including normal and small caliber), are used for firing from machine guns, automatic, self-loading carbines and assault rifles, as well as from light machine guns. Submachine gun cartridges appeared as a result of attempts to increase the effective range of submachine guns, which were recognized in all armies because of their ability to create high density of fire and the inability to achieve similar results when firing standard weapons (rifles and carbines).
        - rifle-machine gun cartridges are intended for firing from magazine and self-loading rifles (carbines), light, heavy and single machine guns and their special modifications. Rifle-machine gun cartridges are exclusively bottle-shaped and significantly exceed the power of machine gun cartridges.
        - large-caliber cartridges used for firing large-caliber machine guns, anti-tank rifles and large-caliber sniper rifles. Large-caliber cartridges of 12,7-14,5 mm caliber, have a higher power, compared with rifle-machine gun cartridges.
        - cartridges for automatic guns. A characteristic feature of cartridges for automatic guns of 20-30 mm caliber is that they have not a bullet but a projectile as the main element.
        The following cartridges belong to auxiliary:
        - training, used to teach the techniques of loading / discharging and firing during training on military and training weapons. They do not have a powder charge, and the capsule is broken
        - test (control) cartridges that serve to verify the action of weapons mechanisms.
        - reference (model) cartridges used to test ballistic equipment, as well as working and control ballistic weapons.
        - cartridges with enhanced charge. When firing, they create an increased maximum pressure of the powder gases and are intended to test the strength of the locking unit. Bullets of such cartridges before the barrel of the cartridge case are painted black;

        - high pressure cartridges provide higher pressure during firing along the entire length of the barrel in order to verify the strength of the barrels during production. The bullets of these cartridges are painted yellow;

        - Lubricating cartridges used to periodically lubricate the barrel bore and remove powder deposits or a tompak layer remaining from the leading devices of a bullet or projectile;

        - idle cartridges, which serve to simulate shots at tactical exercises, maneuvers, with the delivery of salutes and initial training shot. These cartridges can be used when performing combat missions - for throwing rifle grenades. To hold the powder charge, the sleeve of the sleeve rolls in the shape of an asterisk;

        - sports training cartridges designed for training and sports shooting. They are usually performed small-caliber or normal caliber, but with a reduced charge of gunpowder.
        http://weaponland.ru/publ/klassifikacija_patronov
        _strelkovogo_oruzhija / 13-1-0-272
        And where are vintage-carabiner fantasies here?
        And .. you also have the qualifications of tanks-operational, strategic, infantry-planetary .... galacto-universal ....
    2. unknown 6 October 2016 09: 22 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      If in the West AK is called a carbine, then the cartridge 7,62 * 39- "carbine".
      1. rjxtufh 6 October 2016 10: 17 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: ignoto
        If in the West AK is called a carbine, then the cartridge 7,62 * 39- "carbine".

        In the West, AK is called short rifle. And NOT called carbine. And how all this is translated into Russian is not their problem.
        And the cartridge is 7,62x39 mm, it is intermediate. Those. weakened rifle, his own name was fixed to him later.
  28. murriou 6 October 2016 10: 43 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    Quote: Hupfri
    MP-40 with a butt existed.

    And again you burst with your "knowledge", and with knowledge of the Russian language.
    With the butt were ALL MP-40. With metal, folding. laughing

    With a wooden butt stock was MP-41, so it was a Schmeiser - to Erm's MP-40 (with minor improvements) Hugo Schmeiser attached a butt from MP-18 and put it into the prodigy, but ERMA protested, and it was necessary to stop this production, without slightly bringing up to 30 thousand pieces. Ready MP-41 went mainly to the SS.

    Not to be confused with MP-41 (r) - as the Germans called captured PCA in the German service. Contrary to Your Authoritative lol The Germans valued this trophy very highly - and even sent some of them to Africa, to Rommel.
    1. Hapfri 6 October 2016 13: 39 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      With a wooden permanent butt was the MP-41, so it was the Schmeiser.

      I wrote that. And what is the difference, expert, between MP 40 and MP 41 except for the stock?
      By the way, not a Schmeiser but a folmer, but for you this is probably a secret
      1. murriou 7 October 2016 11: 02 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        And the photos of MP-41 with the plain German inscription MP41 patent Schmeisser remained a mystery to you? Including and given here?
        Sorry. I don’t even know who to recommend to you first of all - an ophthalmologist, ophthalmologist or psychiatrist.
  29. murriou 6 October 2016 10: 44 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    And how all this is translated into Russian is not their problem.

    In this forum, the communication language is RUSSIAN, and your non-mastery of the RUSSIAN language is your problem.
  30. murriou 6 October 2016 10: 46 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    Quote: bbss
    And his father, the kingdom of heaven to him, praised the faculty.
    Weakly versed in weapons apparently.

    Yes, where is the real fighter with the experience of the Second World War before you, the theorist of the couch, and then illiterate in all the topics discussed laughing
  31. murriou 6 October 2016 10: 57 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    why do you continue to shove verbal diarrhea?

    Your psychiatrist did not tell you such a term - "projection"? Ask him what this word has to do with it. laughing
  32. Hapfri 6 October 2016 13: 49 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    Bloodsucker,

    judging at least anti-Soviet and anti-Russian statements?

    Where did you see anti-Russian statements?
    You, bloodsuckers, drank blood from Russia, we still cannot come to our senses.
    Laurels of Beria and Yezhov haunt? Dreaming all over again?
    1. rjxtufh 6 October 2016 14: 09 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: Hupfri
      Where did you see anti-Russian statements?

      Particularly striking is the boorish and cynical identification of anti-Soviet positions with anti-Russian ones.
      1. Bloodsucker 6 October 2016 14: 29 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: rjxtufh
        Particularly striking is the boorish and cynical identification of anti-Soviet positions with anti-Russian

        Hitler's anti-Soviet position is thoroughly anti-Russian.
        Churchill's anti-Soviet position is thoroughly anti-Russian by Truman, Obama, and any of your authorities.
        Repeat you, the arguments from the anti-Soviet-through and through anti-Russian position.
        Comprenez-vous?

        “I love Russia, but I hate the Bolsheviks ...”, - this phrase can often be heard from the lips of various liberals, democrats, nationalists, supporters of the current government and many other representatives of various political movements. It would seem that everything is logical - Russia is separate, the Bolsheviks are separate. But why, when embarking on the path of anti-Sovietism, “desovetizers” inevitably come to Russophobia, that is, hatred of their own people and country?

        The answer is simple. The thing is that the entire Soviet period, and this is more than 70 years, is an integral part of the history of Russia, and denying the Soviet period, the “desovetizers” inevitably deny part of the history of their people. Paradox?

        All this mass of nationalists, liberals and democrats aggressively opposed to the USSR (emphasize necessary) was mired in praising some mythical Russia, some “ideal” - for some it was the Russian Empire, for others it was the notorious “national state”, for others it was an illusory “democratic state” Russia".

        They are united only by one thing - fierce contempt for the hated “scoop” and support of any forces (including those really hostile to Russia) who advocate desovetization.

        By the way, a lot of liberal and nationalist movements have burned out at the present time, showing support for the Ukrainian Maidan, which had a bright anti-Soviet and Russophobic connotation (Maidan, by the way, does not make any special differences between these two concepts - for example, the destruction of Lenin monuments for them is a struggle with Muscovites). Further events in Ukraine only confirmed these facts.
        A symbolic illustration of the modern fighter with the “scoop” - hatred of the Union was for many stronger than love for Russia itself and its people.
    2. Bloodsucker 6 October 2016 14: 37 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      It is enough to read your hate-saturated comments about the Great Patriotic War, slightly veiled by crocodile tears of loss.
      Quote.
      “Over the years it has become completely clear to me: entering the path of anti-Sovietism, you will certainly come to outright Russophobia.
      A person who consistently takes anti-Soviet positions inevitably understands that these views are not shared by the people, and then he is forced to state that the people are not the same.
      It’s impossible to create anything with these people, it’s a mistake of nature.
      Further, pure racism: this people need to be uprooted, and only then will humanity be able to move by leaps and bounds to happiness. "
      Vladimir Valentinovich Menshov (born September 17, 1939, Baku) is a Soviet and Russian theater, film and television actor, film director, screenwriter, producer. Honored Artist of the RSFSR (1984), People's Artist of the RSFSR (1989), Laureate of the USSR State Prize (1981) and Oscar in the nomination "Best Foreign Language Film" for the film "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears." Chairman of the Public Council on the problems of the penitentiary system
      This person, has a weight in society, name and merit, but what does a certain Hapfrey have in society, besides hysteria and constantly generated lies, paired with rjxtufh?
      NOTHING other than the generation of lies, fabrications, dirt and gossip, with a crocodile roar and tears.
  33. uskrabut 6 October 2016 14: 34 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    Great article! I liked the one I liked in the case, already drooling, handsome!
  34. murriou 6 October 2016 17: 40 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    Read the rest of my comments on this article in my profile.

    You are our humble one. lol Yes, your comments here and in other topics are a horrrrrring source of fun for understanding people.
    Bravo, maestro !! Thank you for that! laughing love fellow
  35. Niccola Mack 6 October 2016 18: 00 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    rjxtufh,
    For the main army individual automatic weapons, such a range (DEP) is set at 450 m. For self-loading, 400 m. For an army pistol - 50 m. Etc. for all types of shooting.


    Who installed? if by specialists like you this is not an argument.
    In the Russian (Soviet) weapons tradition, there were more understandable criteria:

    By defeat:
    - Slaughter (almost completely depended on the kinetic energy - kilodzhouli - for all cartridges in all countries they usually write this).
    - stopping action - depended on kinetic, energy, caliber and bullet features - loss of stability.
    - The maximum range at which the lethal effect is maintained depended on the initial speed, weight and ballistics of the bullet. As a rule, disproportionately more than the range of the actual fire.
    Your DEP in this regard is the maximum range at which you save
    Naturally, this whole system is for conventional (inextricable, non-integral, etc.) bullets.
    I can not resist the “fried” example of slaughter, according to the terms of the revolver competition for the Russian army in the early 90s and 19th centuries. the sample was supposed to stop the horse - up to 50m. And the Nagan revolver met this requirement and was accepted into service. Fact!

    Accuracy:
    - Sighting range - exclusively "muddy parameter" - we can say a notch on the sight.
    - The range of a direct shot - it is very simple to enter corrections (practically not necessary) - The initial speed of the bullet and the stability of the weapon - are different on a single and automatic fire (2nd shot).
    -And finally, the most important is the range of the actual fire (the most valid fire) - bursts and single shots - initial speed, kinetic energy, bullet ballistics, weapon stability when firing.
    Apparently, this is your DEP.

    You may not agree, but still I will give approximate values ​​of the range of the actual fire (ed. / Od).
    Thompson PP - 80/100 m.
    PP MP-40 - 100 / -
    PPSh-41 -180/250
    98K, three-line (not sniper options) - up to 600 (we will not recall the “plutong” shooting here).
    AKM - 350/400
    Stg-44-300 / 350
    M-16 (standard barrel) - 450 * 550
    AK-74 - 450 * 550
    ABC, CBT, M1 Garand, BAR, M14, G3, FN FAL - up to 500 / without bipods - none - point blank.

    Actual ranges vary greatly depending on the narrator’s temperament.
    For example, almost anyone who fought in Afghanistan is talking about 300 meters - the highest on AKM and AK-74.

    How to distinguish between army (combat), hunting and sports cartridges - I have only one thought - about the predominance of using weapons in samples. But if you look at what is used for hunting and shooting sports in the USA (without comments) and ours (Saiga, Tiger, KO-88, SKS, etc.), then this is also an empty air shock.

    And finally, give up defective weapons from Russian designers and weapons - it’s better to see who is fighting in the world.

    And with Thompson you are generally confused.
    1. rjxtufh 6 October 2016 18: 30 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: Niccola Mack
      Who installed? if by specialists like you this is not an argument

      Human physiology.
      The human eye can aim at an open sight at a maximum range of 400 m.
      Quote: Niccola Mack
      Your DEP in this regard is the maximum range at which

      Not mine. But this is the range at which the GUARANTEED slaughter remains.
      Quote: Niccola Mack
      Say, almost anyone who fought in Afghanistan speaks of 300 m - the highest maximum for AKM and AK-74

      For AKM is correct. The AK-74 is about 350m. This is me about DEP, if that.
      Quote: Niccola Mack
      And finally, give up defective weapons from Russian designers and weapons - it’s better to see who is fighting in the world.

      It’s better to see who and what is buying in the world. And free, so who will refuse? This is not an indicator of quality.
      Quote: Niccola Mack
      And with Thompson you are generally confused.

      I did not notice this.
    2. Niccola Mack 7 October 2016 08: 30 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      My apologies for KO-88 - of course KO-44
  36. murriou 6 October 2016 22: 50 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    I did not notice this.

    Yes. You don’t notice a lot of things laughing
  37. Niccola Mack 7 October 2016 08: 36 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Niccola Mack,
    Did the photo go somewhere?
  38. Droid 7 October 2016 10: 29 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    Quote: rjxtufh
    Here, download and see.

    Do you understand Russian? It seems not. For those who are especially smart, I explain - there was no AK-47 in service, this is the designation of the sample at the competition, as it was designated until September 21, 1949. 21.09.1949 by a resolution of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, the Kalashnikov assault rifle was adopted under the designation AK.
    September 20, it was still AK-47, and on the 21st it was an AK adopted for service.
    1. rjxtufh 7 October 2016 10: 43 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: Droid
      For those who are especially smart, I explain - there was no AK-47 in service

      And did I draw a service manual with a strange inscription AK-47 (see above)?
      Quote: Droid
      this is the designation of the sample at the competition, so it was designated until September 21, 1949

      Excuse me, please? Who will print the service manual for the prototype?
      Quote: Droid
      Kalashnikov assault rifle was adopted under the designation AK

      But nothing that the AK-47 and AK are slightly different performance characteristics?
      Quote: Droid
      Do you understand Russian?

      Me yes. And you, I don’t know.
  39. Droid 7 October 2016 10: 47 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: rjxtufh
    And did I draw a service manual with a strange inscription AK-47 (see above)?

    I wrote in a previous post that the manual was signed for print 11 May 1949 years. You distinguish May from September? Or for you, that May, that September is the same thing?
    1. rjxtufh 7 October 2016 10: 49 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: Droid
      You distinguish May from September? Or for you, that May, that September is the same thing?

      You bore me. Count as you want.
  40. murriou 7 October 2016 10: 57 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    Quote: Droid
    Or for you, that May, that September is the same thing?

    For him, without a forced injection of haloperidol, the whole world is seen very * original * и * unconventional * laughing
  41. murriou 7 October 2016 15: 34 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: Niccola Mack
    Dear "rjxtuft" (although judging by the comments, no one already thinks so)

    Well then! Such a comedian, such * non-traditional* crazy! As he enters the arena, I am immediately in the front rows with a bouquet! laughing
  42. shinobi 9 December 2016 11: 26 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    The Germans soaked them into zero: They took the old man as a basis, stuck to him a modern ergonomic handle, a cooling casing and a screw holder for 30 rounds. Fans squealed with enthusiasm and wrote with napalm.