Ak-xnumx. The story of farce

322
It seems that the play entitled "ak-12" is coming to its logical ending. After boastful statements about weapons of the fifth generation and its superhuman capabilities at the Army 2016 exhibition, the world was presented with the good old AK-74 with minor modifications that may add marketing attractiveness to it, but they will definitely put an end to the introduction and replacement of AK-74M.

The damage of the sample, which was presented for the first time under the brand name “ak-12” in 2010, was immediately visible to specialists. Chief editor of the magazine "Kalashnikov" M.Ye. Degtyarev was the first to speak out about the idea of ​​a new machine gun in a negative way and, in order not to weaken the glorious brand, he wrote it in small letters. I joined this symbolic gesture, so hereinafter we will speak about “ak-12”.



Part one. Phenomenon.

The emergence of the idea of ​​a new machine is inextricably linked with two processes taking place in parallel. The collapse of the army by its minister and the destruction of Izhmash's engineering school was gaining momentum. In the Ministry of Defense, not only whole institutions were destroyed, but the functions of the Defense Ministry as a customer were also reviewed. If in the system created by D.F. Ustinov, the army and the developer worked in symbiosis, creating and selecting the best, then in the system created by Serdyukov, the army turned into a merchant. Previously, the army was a generator of ideas, with a powerful analytical apparatus, it could forecast trends in the development of weapons, process huge amounts of information and clearly develop tactical and technical requirements for new weapons. As an example. The firing efficiency of a high-rate deuce in the AN-94 seems obvious, but in fact the initial task was to cut off three shots. When adopting a model with the best characteristics, the customer cannot operate with comparative or superlative degrees. We need specific numbers. After a lot of work at the training ground under the Abakan program, it was found that shooting with a high-speed two from AN-94 is 1,4 times more effective than shooting with a regular AK-74 triple. That's why the initial requirements for a cutoff of three shots were changed in favor of the deuce right in the test process.

Under the new minister, the ministry has turned into a naughty young lady, who knows what she wants, but does not know what she wants. The functions of the customer were not limited to the development of requirements, but to the evaluation of the proposed. "You will offer, and we will see whether to buy or not to buy." It is possible to forgive such a point of view if we recognize that common sense is finally conquered in Russia by capitalism. But the lordly manner of modern compradors, sewn at the gene level, cannot but humiliate the manufacturer. “Your machine is outdated. Come up with something new. Otherwise, we will purchase French FAMAS. ”

The manufacturer also often gets rid of the red lid Picatinny rail. There are no normal engineering personnel for a long time, and where they are, there is no normal funding for R & D. That is why all manufacturers tread around the once created and tested AK or SVD scheme. In fairness, it is worth noting that our eventual opponents cannot tear themselves away from the decisions of half a century ago.

With the appearance of Serdyukov in the Ministry of Defense and Kuzyuk on Izhmash, some movements began at the plant in the coma. How and from where Kuzyuki and other General-Dima come from is unknown. Kuziuk, frightened by his appointment to such a position, appointed the chief designer of the Tula engineer Zlobin, and began to search for a sissy that needed to be eaten and “works of the human mind”, which needed to be “dumped” into the waste pit ”(c). This is from Saltykov-Shchedrin, if someone has not read the classics. The workers of KOTS Izhmash, the designers of gunsmiths of the highest class, turned out to be Siskin, head and shoulders above Zlobin. They were forced to leave the factory. This was written in his blog by Alexey V. “They killed the Izhmash plant, the manufacturer of the Kalashnikov assault rifle.” This blog is now unavailable for obvious reasons, but a copy of the article can be easily found on the Internet. A work of mind, I suppose, was the work on the AK-200, which were conducted on Izhmash. I suspect that it was a machine with a balanced automatics, perhaps from the backlog of the battery, which participated in the competition "Abakan". The ambition of the new gun genius declared AK-200 a myth (dumped into a pit) and revealed to the world "ak-12".

The analyzes of the first photos and the informative information about “ak-12” caused the first doubts, and the interview of Kuzyuk and Zlobin - the confidence that the people slipped the chupa-chups. For example, it was stated that on the basis of "ak-12" "we will create a submachine gun and a sniper rifle." In the machine planned double-shooting. Why is she a sniper rifle or a submachine gun?

MO claimed that they issued the requirements for the new machine in 2010 year. What are the requirements? New weapons have always been developed through competition or in the light of new commodity-money relations through government orders. And only with the advent of the “Warrior” theme did something more or less orderly begin in the dances around the new machine gun. There was a normal competitor - AEK.

In the very first trials, something happened that should have happened. Automatic failed tests. But not because of the discrepancy between the technical requirements parameters, but according to the key indicator of all Kalashnikovs - reliability!

Part two. Convulsions.

In further tests, "ak-12" was refused. Rather, denied government funding for development and testing.

Ak-xnumx. The story of farceKuzuk finally got rid of the need to pose in front of the cameras, clumsily holding the machine gun.

The appearance of Busygin on Izhmash introduced a fresh stream in the media space. Once a month I started issuing PRs from the oven: cooperation with Beretta, our own cartridge production, our own testing and certification center, to which all Americans must come with their weaponry novelties, and so on. Zlobin was marked by two models of bullpaps, which surfaced at some exhibition and sunk into eternity. Meanwhile, the working class, driven to despair by non-payment of the already beggarly wages, found in itself the last strength to go on a picket in Moscow. Mikhail Timofeevich addressed a direct request to the authorities to save Izhmash. Rogozin intervened in the case, he not only knew how to hold the machine gun, but also shot well.

Rogozin proposed to create a concern on the basis of two factories, one of which was completely bankrupt, and the other Izhevsk mechanical was rather dead. The old designer still believed in the decency of the leaders of his fatherland and gave the concern his name. He did not live to see the time when the concern’s leadership began a shameful trial with his relatives for a trademark with his name, which belonged to them by law and law. The pinnacle of the Bousygin government was the logo of the concern developed by an unknown student, who was mocked by the whole world. Compradors did not understand what they became the owner. After all, there were agencies and designers who were ready to develop the concern's logo for FREE, just because their name stood next to the name of Kalashnikov! And if this were the only stupidity of the new leadership!

So, on the official website of the concern, a West German company was listed as a trading partner. When clicking on the link to this company, the user got directly to the site of a small arms manufacturing company - Izhmash’s direct competitor. The name of this company is Schmeisser GmbH. On the promotional materials Izhmash flaunted American rifle M-16.

Saving an ordinary concern from bankruptcy looks like this. He receives a guaranteed order from the state and a financial loan from Sberbank, and the concern is transferred with giblets and debts to private hands for the obligation to participate with its capital. Be that as it may, Busygin dissolved after Kuzyuk. The failure of Zlobin’s trials was so obvious that his departure was a matter of time. Before the new leadership again got a toothache with a gun. From the same place where Kuzyuk pulled out engineer Zlobin, Krivoruchko pulled out an athlete-consultant Kirisenko. This immediately affected the machine. Multi-caliberity, modularity, ambidextrality, and other picatinas appeared, including the ability to "recharge with one hand." The deadlines for the AEK and the decision on the “Warrior” began to move suspiciously. In the media space again began PR. Glimpsed Kirisenko, Sigal, Vickers and other stars. Finally, it was announced that both machines had been tested for compliance with TTT and transferred to military trials. The final appearance of the machine was unknown, and the appearance of his people was promised at the exhibition "Army-2016".

Part Three. Apotheosis.

And everyone saw the final version of the “fifth generation” machine gun. But only no one saw in him ambidextrality, modularity, multi-caliberity and, all the more, the possibility of “one-handed reloading”. Before us is the good old AK-74 with modifications that do not pull at rearmament, but at least look like a normal military weapon, uncorrupted by sports or glamorous Wishlist.

What happened? Apparently, it has come to the concern’s management that the engineers are developing weapons, not athletes or ambitious single designers. Sliding butt, Picatinny rail, diopter sight, shooting mode with a cut-off in two rounds and a lightweight slide frame. This is the result of several years of the creation of a fifth-generation automaton. But this was the only way to get out of the impasse in which ambitious DIY-made and effective managers drove "ak-12".

Analysis of all the features of the construction of "ak-12" will take a separate topic. Limited to small.

Picatinny Plank. There are no more stupid innovations in military small arms than the Picatinny rail and front "tactical" handle. Both came from sports. The effectiveness of the front handle was tested in the era of the AK-47 and AKM. Then it was found that the weapon needs it as a cow saddle. Romanians are not convinced. At the beginning of a new century, marketing geniuses convinced sportsmen that they would look cooler with their arms. And until 2015, the athlete was not an athlete, if he did not hold his carbine in the manner of the German MP-40. At the World Championships 2015, a massive enlightenment happened - the handles disappeared. But they appeared in the set of the famous AK-74M modernization in the Russian Army. In soldiers, enlightenment comes much faster than in athletes.

And yet, picatinny. A universal interface to connect, it's great, be it a USB connector or a docking station on a space station. But not in arms.

Here is the hand of an athlete with the grip of the opposed forearm.


And this is the hand of a field fighter.



With such a grip on the forearm, he not only shoots, but can also lean his weapon against the ground or hit with a butt or bayonet. What kind of blisters he rubbed with, I think, no need to explain.

The distance from the eye to the rear sight of the open sight or collimator is uncritical. The length of the butt does not play any role. But when using a diopter, a too long butt will not allow the eye to reach the diopter, and too short will allow the same diopter to drop into the eye when it returns. So these two innovations (diopter and sliding butt) are interconnected. If the diopter and allows you to more accurately aim, then in turn requires more time to do this, moreover, after the dirt gets into the hole, it is not cleaned with bare fingers. These truths are already a hundred years old. These innovations do not give any advantage.

Cut-off for two rounds. I have already said that only the high-tempo (1800 high / min) two makes sense. Another position of the switch, of course, diversifies the number of manipulations when handling weapons, that's just why it is necessary at the usual rate of 600-700 high / min?

Lightweight bolt carrier, "recycled" gas outlet and other trifles, this is not something that can fundamentally change the tactical and technical characteristics of the weapon.

Concerns about the mythical twofold superiority of ak-12 over AK-74 are nothing more than a bluff. If you wish, you can more accurately calculate this "superiority" in specific figures, as was the case with the cut-off example. Obviously, there is no multiple superiority. He does not have AEK. Further development of thoughts about the position of the Customer or his competence is not desirable. But we love Wang. Wangju, story with AN-94 will repeat. Like a farce. It does not matter what they will receive: "ak-12" or AEK. They will release a couple of years and will announce the next "Warrior".
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

322 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +61
    30 September 2016 07: 22
    He clearly explained, you will not say anything. It’s a pity that for so many years all kinds of crooks in the concern have been hanging noodles on the ears of the people. After such articles, you stop believing in something truthful and good, both in politics and in the military sphere.
    1. +39
      30 September 2016 07: 44
      Quote: aktanir
      It’s a pity that for so many years all kinds of crooks in the concern have been hanging noodles on the ears of the people.

      I have long understood that the AK-12 is just a cosmetically tuned AK-74. A lot of companies around the world deal with such body kits.
      1. +21
        1 October 2016 00: 22
        And you immediately accepted the opinion of the author of the article for the truth of last resort? Is this just his opinion. Or, what, he personally didn’t carry out a thousand shots from him in various field conditions?
        1. +19
          1 October 2016 21: 40
          "There is no more wacky innovation in military small arms than the Picatinny rail and the front" tactical "grip.

          After that, the pearl did not read. The article was written by a university teacher. There is no real experience. An article is a set of letters.
          1. +11
            6 October 2016 11: 32
            And this pearl is quite logical for itself. Picattini is tougher, but even quick-release contains threaded clamps. Well, let's temporarily put the collimator on a nightlight in the cold. You are on piccatini, and I am on the side bar. In winter gloves. So the question of the title of theorist remains open.
        2. 0
          13 October 2016 16: 19
          Someone spent (I won’t point a finger, otherwise you don’t have permission). And the results are not so hot.
        3. 0
          6 February 2018 13: 00
          I accepted the opinion of the author, because I see the same thing in other industries. And you do not seem to live in Russia. Now they’re not putting Specialists in their posts (with a capital letter), but “their own” ... Who, without understanding anything, climb to command ....
      2. +12
        4 October 2016 23: 21
        An interesting article, although the facts in it are not enough, more emotions and personal opinions of the author. But in general, the author is right - despite the huge PR campaign carried out by the media at various levels (here it is! 5th generation miracle weapon! New word, new look, etc. etc.), nothing concrete is presented and not so It was. Remember the famous Swift? How many eulogies and beautiful videos and .... where is this super-gun? Doesn’t resemble anything?
        Of course, weapons modernization is needed. Materials are changing, the requirements of modern warfare are changing, and a lot of things are changing. But then write honestly - this is a deep modernization of the AK-74. Is she good or bad ..? This is a separate issue, but this is modernization, and not a new machine.
        True, there is another important point here - the price. We live in a world in which money / cost decides a lot (unfortunately, but this is a fact). How economically justified is the transition to a new type of machine? This is not a piece / small-scale weapon for special forces. This is a weapon for mass arming the army, and in case of war (God forbid!) And for conscripts. This means that you need to have at least several tens of millions. And this is just colossal money that will be spent on the release of a new machine, most of which will lie in warehouses without movement. How justified is this? Especially considering that this new "super automatic" does not give any special advantages? We still have these millions of trunks in our warehouses. Can it be easier (and much cheaper) to order modernization kits for them for modern requirements? And in parallel with this, will they really start developing a fundamentally new weapon? Although, it is difficult to imagine what else can be invented in this area, what could be called a breakthrough ... Only the transition to fundamentally different methods of destruction (laser) or at least other methods of dispersing a bullet / projectile (railgun).
        1. +1
          6 February 2018 13: 05
          You don’t understand, they are likely to give much less money for modernization, which means “mastering” will turn out even less. And then the developer of the "NEW" machine, it's a completely different calico! And the "sediment" will be much fatter! And the contract for rearmament !!! This is not for you ... (which do not supplement yourself)
    2. +15
      30 September 2016 08: 36
      Well, you are straight from edge to edge, then in one you believe in another, the truth is somewhere in between.
      1. +9
        30 September 2016 11: 27
        Quote: 501Legion
        Well, you are straight from edge to edge, then in one you believe in another, the truth is somewhere in between.

        In this case, between the legs laughing
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. +23
          30 September 2016 15: 12
          Quote: Now we are free
          Let's wait for the OFFICIAL end of the AK-12 tests and do not tear the hair on the butt with shouts - "About ... are all polymers

          What are the final tests? Don't you see how these tests pass ??? Yes, in the same place they pull this child prodigy from Kalashnikov, and AEK spread rot with terrible force request
        2. +6
          30 September 2016 16: 43
          You say: ".... black jackets" preferred SVT40 over "light" to other types of weapons ", but this is your personal experience?
          It so happened that since childhood I have been interested in history. As a child, he talked about his relatives with the participants in the war: Yurchenko Andrey Petrovich, defended the Marukh pass. He was sure that wreckers had created the "light" so that the Red Army was unarmed.
          Another relative: Fedot Ivanovich Degtev, was in the Marine Corps, awards: For courage (defense of Sevastopol) Krasnaya Zvezda and some other. He says with pleasure he changed the "light" to "mosinka", and then they were overloaded with PPSh and he was in delighted.
        3. +15
          30 September 2016 19: 54
          Quote: Now we are free
          you would think the author himself personally experienced the AK-12 personally


          Do you think that Sergey Palych himself had to fly into space in order to send Belka and Strelka there? I spoke with direct testers of ak-12, with participants in the events of the times to Kuzyuk, Busygin, Krivoruchko. In addition, the education, engineering experience of the developer and the system analysis that I do allow me to draw conclusions with a high degree of reliability, on the one hand, and on the other hand, they do not allow me to write about things that have not been verified from at least two different sources.

          Quote: Now we are free
          Specifically: to improve accuracy (let's say honestly inferior to the weapons of a potential enemy M-16, Steyr, etc.), to increase the convenience of handling weapons (for example, everyone knows perfectly well what click the AK fuse makes when switching this "Click" more than once played a deplorable role for the owner of the AK by detecting him at night and in the forest, etc.)


          Let's. Just to begin with, give comparative tables of tests for this "accuracy", otherwise it also turns out to be something about space and dogs.
          As soon as you give the tables, let's talk about "clicks". :)
          1. 0
            10 February 2017 21: 31
            Explain to me as a weapons engineer why there is still no shutter delay and a convenient thumb-switch for shooting modes under the thumb on both sides of the receiver? Is it so daunting to do in a factory? Or maybe religion does not allow a soldier to hand a more convenient machine?
            1. +1
              10 February 2017 22: 39
              Write yourself in a notebook so that you no longer ask stupid questions:
              THE DESIGNER DEVELOPS WEAPONS ON THE TASK OF THE TASK OF THE CUSTOMER.
              If the customer decided that he did not need a delay, then the designer did not lay it in the construction of the weapon. Even the smallest rivet in the design is negotiated with the customer. So whine about the bolt delays and the "inconvenience of a fuse" address directly to the Ministry of Defense.
              And if you agree to pay for the development of such a PP and fuse and guarantee
              the purchase of a large batch of machines with such a refinement that pays off the costs of its production, then not a single plant or designer will refuse this.
              1. +1
                10 February 2017 22: 50
                I personally don’t believe that the Ministry of Defense in TTZ completely described the design of the inconvenient flag-switch for firing modes for AK, AKM and others. This design was invented by engineers. What were they guided by this? The old Russian idea that the soldier was as uncomfortable as possible in everything? The same thing with the convenient gearshift lever on the Gas-66, the same thing about the lack of air conditioning and electric and hydraulic boosters, and so on and so forth. And how to explain the rear engine location for a whole generation of wheeled armored personnel carriers (60/70/80/90)? By God, domestic engineers have excellent designs, but there are also fantastic ones in their inconvenience.
                MO is not able to register everything to the screw in TTZ, because it cannot create a structure. The design is created by engineers, who then coordinate them with representatives from the Moscow Region.

                Or not?
                1. -1
                  17 February 2017 12: 38
                  Quote: cast iron
                  The old Russian idea that the soldier was as uncomfortable as possible in everything?

                  The fact that the USSR is not only Turkestan, and that somehow there are areas where the temperature of -40 is considered normal in winter - now try switching the M-16 translator in thick gauntlets - maybe after that it will come to the realization that each element was worked out taking into account all the features of operation and experimental batches were run in in all climatic conditions.
                  1. 0
                    18 February 2017 01: 57
                    And for a long time we began to pull the trigger in thick hands?
                    1. +1
                      20 February 2017 17: 05
                      In the winter. There is such a special three-fingered mittens, there under the index finger a separate “fingertip” is made. Special for gunfighters.
                      1. +1
                        21 February 2017 15: 28
                        That's it, that "SEPARATE" fingertip. So the normal CONVENIENT and BILATERAL switch-safety lock under a thumb can be put and it is necessary.
      3. +2
        30 September 2016 19: 41
        Quote: 501Legion
        Well, you are straight from edge to edge, then in one you believe in another, the truth is somewhere in between.

        The truth will be when you hold in your hands and try! Again - one will like it, the other will not work. request
      4. +2
        4 October 2016 15: 12
        Unfortunately, the truth is not in the middle, but on the edge, and not from that which we would like. The incompetent crooks, who are in beautiful jackets and are clownily dressed ... are full in all sectors, I just don’t understand why the authorities are doing this!
    3. avt
      +35
      30 September 2016 09: 10
      Quote: aktanir
      He clearly explained, you will not say anything.

      What exactly ? Well, at least in grams, except for groans about
      So, on the official website of the concern, a West German company was listed as a trading partner. When clicking on the link to this company, the user got directly to the site of a small arms manufacturing company - Izhmash’s direct competitor. The name of this company is Schmeisser GmbH. On the promotional materials Izhmash flaunted American rifle M-16.
      Oh! Yes !
      Rogozin intervened in the matter; he not only knew how to keep the machine gun, but also shot well.
      Beautifully licked - offset! And what? Then Rogozin was then removed from the post of deputy prime minister in charge of the industry? Here it is not clear from the article, but began to be
      Quote: aktanir
      you will not say anything.
      Well, maybe something on the technical side is super convincing? Start praying
      Picatinny rail. There are no more stupid innovations in military small arms than the Picatinny rail and the front “tactical” handle. Both came from sports. The effectiveness of the front handle was tested in the era of the AK-47 and AKM. Then it was found out that the weapon needed it as a cow saddle. Romanians are not convinced. At the beginning of the new century, marketing geniuses convinced athletes that they would look cooler with arms.
      wassat The author does not want to see the design machine of Fedorov in the museum somewhere in Tula? Oh! Yes! Fedorov was the founder of shooting sports in tsarist Russia and had no relation to the army wassat
      Enlightenment comes faster for soldiers than for athletes.
      Well, something like that, here they are holding a Kalash for the store, well, they didn’t read the author and his rationale for seizing the machine gun. However, without a front handle, it’s cheaper to mass-produce any weapon in series, as with other telescopic butts, for me, for the poor, for some reason the root cause is seen
      The concern’s statements about the mythical double superiority of the AK-12 over the AK-74 are nothing more than a bluff. If you wish, you can more accurately calculate this "superiority" in specific numbers, as was the case with the cut-off. Obviously, there is no multiple superiority.
      I believe it. I believe the author - honestly! BUT! When he specifically calculates more accurately and lay out the calculation method. According to the statement in the article
      An analysis of all the design features of the AK-12 will take a separate topic.
      Well, we are waiting for the continuation.
      1. +19
        30 September 2016 09: 33
        Totally agree with you. There are no calculations in the article from the word ABSOLUTELY. Set of bukf, phrases and emotions.
        1. +2
          30 September 2016 21: 29
          It makes an impression of ordinary ordering. Question - who is the customer? Whose mill is the water in?
      2. +32
        30 September 2016 09: 53
        Everything is correctly disassembled. And I also want to add about the supposedly damn uncomfortable retention of the forend with Picatinny rails. the author apparently is completely unaware that rubber pads on trims have been used if necessary for a long time. And if you take not a Chinese kit for $ 1, but something decent, hold like a glove, while increasing the convenience of retention.
        also about the front handle. Anyone can conduct an experiment right now, taking any thing and try to hold it as a fore-end (twisting the arm) or as a handle (when the arm is comfortable and anatomically correct). A machine gun (and even more so a machine gun) is not a feather.
        And I would also like to hear from the author why the same PC machine gun, many in the fighting do not hold the forearm and bipod?
        About telescopic butts. The soldiers are known to be different. Different physique, height and 160 cm and 220 cm are. And machines are known to be of the same size. Here is an adjustable butt just allows everyone to adjust weapons for themselves. As well as the way, the front handle, which can be further or closer from you, as convenient. More expensive of course. And if the butt also allows you to adjust the height, it’s generally good.
        1. avt
          +10
          30 September 2016 10: 44
          Quote: Viking
          About telescopic butts. The soldiers are known to be different. Different physique, height and 160 cm and 220 cm are. And machines are known to be of the same size. Here is an adjustable butt just allows everyone to adjust weapons for themselves. As well as the way, the front handle, which can be further or closer from you, as convenient. More expensive of course. And if the butt also allows you to adjust the height, it’s generally good.

          So that's exactly what I'm talking about! Certainly more convenient and of course more expensive. That is why, initially, the entire body kit goes to specialists in a small batch and only sweat-oh-oh-oh, it is very likely that something goes into general use, well, at government expense. And still they are trying to somehow reduce costs by cutting into the standard "statutory" version. By and large, well, if you throw away the author's ecstasy and look much higher than the picatinny bar, not armed with 3 or even 5 cognac "stars", the eye. What is the need to modernize the existing stock of small arms and specifically Kalash in warehouses and in the troops? Well, of course, taking into account the criterion "cost - efficiency." And the second question - that's like a hosh, and the consumption of previously manufactured weapons goes (although a lot), again, production will be replenished with what? A fundamentally new design? Is there a sample that fully fulfills or even covers the requirements?
          Quote: Spade
          In the appendix to the new assault rifle, tactical specialists should indicate what dispersion the "cartridge-assault rifle-man" complex should give and at what range it should be optimized. Specialists in ergonomics and military psychology - what form it should have and what should be the controls. And so on

          That is, to give an effect much better than its predecessor. Or with minimal investment and making changes that do not significantly change the manufacturing process of manufacturing to an existing serially produced sample that meets the customer's requirements? Despite the fact that someone likes to shoot from the same AEK more? Well, I like ADS, so what? Write an angry article denouncing the "Kalashists"?
          1. +3
            30 September 2016 12: 08
            Quote: avt
            That is, to give an effect much better than its predecessor. Or with minimal investment and making changes that do not significantly change the manufacturing process of manufacturing to an existing serially produced sample that meets the customer's requirements? Despite the fact that someone likes to shoot from the same AEK more? Well, I like ADS, so what? Write an angry article denouncing the "Kalashists"?

            It seems to me that the comrades from KK put the optical and collimator sights on the AK shot and realized that no matter how you improve the mechanics with the thermodynamics of the AK, it is easier to put the sight and the effect is greater. Well, in order to show that they worked, they slightly sawed AK painted in a fashionable tactical color and made a presentation on the Army 2016 in a foreign manner. smile
          2. +4
            30 September 2016 21: 37
            Exactly. The article is generally devoted to the fact that everything is bad. From the word at all! Not ready for war! Because it is impossible to fight with the "old" Kalash (although it is not clear why), but the new, super-duper-man-nano is not. EVERYTHING IS PROSRALIPOLIMERS, hang in the bulb.
            Well, the author would praise AEK - so no, and he is blasphemed. So the question is - what are we fighting for?
            And ... There was a phrase about the purchase of imported ... Is it not there that we wave the fan?
            1. +4
              30 September 2016 22: 24
              Quote: Vlad.by
              Because it is impossible to fight with the "old" Kalash

              And where does the author write that it is impossible to fight with old Kalash?
              Quote: Vlad.by
              And ... There was a phrase about the purchase of imported ... Is it not there that we wave the fan?
              There, there ... Only who waved?
        2. +5
          30 September 2016 12: 15
          Quote: Viking
          Picatinny rail

          And I would also like to hear from the author why the same PC machine gun, many in the fighting do not hold the forearm and bipod?

          In fact, the PC does not have a forearm.
        3. +1
          30 September 2016 17: 32
          And they can also be in winter clothes with a bronic or some other ammunition. Or in the summer. I'm talking about the butt
        4. +2
          30 September 2016 18: 05
          the fighter needs the handle on the PC only for carrying, the shooting is carried out with the support of the box if it is in weight, or with the butt clamp if, when resting on the box, from the bipod, you can hold the box or hold the butt, the first is much more effective, because if you grab the handle , then lateral swing when firing is guaranteed, the forend appeared only on the "Pecheneg"
        5. 0
          2 October 2016 11: 11
          Quote: Viking
          why many people in the fighting do not hold the same machine gun for the handguard but for the bipod?
          Apparently, because it is a single machine gun (bipod / machine), and not manual, and he does not have a fore-end. If in a battle to shoot with hands, then there is nothing more to hold.
      3. +9
        30 September 2016 12: 08
        Quote: avt
        The author does not want to see the design machine of Fedorov in the museum somewhere in Tula?

        Nope. I saw it already and very carefully. That's just the knot that sticks out on the AF fore-end is mistaken for the handle. It is a pity that there are no cartridges left from the arisaki, otherwise I would suggest that someone shoot from AF holding on to this twig. Magazine three or five, and then see how the magazine latch rubbed his left wrist. The knot protects the magazine catch. This time. Two is a decrease in the load on the muscles of the palm of the left hand with a "classic" grip. The weapon, as you know, needs to be tightly pressed to the shoulder, if the forend is even, then such a clamp is made due to a tight grip on the forend with your fingers. The sweatier your fingers, the more you need to squeeze the forend with them. The presence of a knot removes this problem - the pressing force is transmitted through the edge of the palm. On AK and SVD there are nodules on the forend. With about the same meaning. Grip with the winding belt on the wrist too.


        Quote: avt
        I believe it. I believe the author - honestly! BUT! When he specifically calculates more accurately and lay out the calculation method. According to the statement in the article

        You can only believe in the old Muller. :)
        In this case, you need to know. The "methodology" revolves around calculating the quality index coefficient. There are four of them. Weighted averages of arithmetic, harmonic, quadratic and geometric. I apologize, but insert formulas into scrap. "Okaygugl qualimetry" will help you. And yet there is nothing to write about the method except desire. I would kick out of all sorts of nonsense under the article.
        1. avt
          +2
          30 September 2016 16: 26
          Quote: bunta
          Here are just the hitch that sticks on the fore-end AF, mistakenly taken for the handle.

          laughing This is cool, and there is no "tactical handle" - call it a bitch and out of sight, out of mind, especially if you still thoughtfully stick
          Quote: bunta
          The knot protects the magazine catch. This time. Two is a decrease in the load on the muscles of the palm of the left hand with a "classic" grip.

          laughing About the muscles of the palm is cool! laughing The main thing is science-like, straight to the thesis.
          Quote: bunta
          And there is nothing to write about the method except desire. I would have to kick back from all sorts of nonsense.

          No. The jump is not defended. So from the pedestal on which you offered yourself to be thrown, you will be adherents who have a campaign and now they will be happy to catch every such thoughtfulness. But for cynics like me and for others, that's all
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Yes, there will be no continuation, because there is nothing to disassemble.
          Well, ladies, I leave you alone, well, I will no longer distract you from the grave worries.
          Quote: bunta
          I would have to kick back from all sorts of nonsense.
          1. +1
            30 September 2016 17: 59
            Quote: avt
            Yes, there will be no continuation, because there is nothing to disassemble. Well, ladies, I leave you alone, well, I will no longer distract you from the grave worries.

            Nuuuu, dear, ugly. In general, I gave a detailed answer, and you replied in the style of "d.rak himself" No.
        2. +5
          1 October 2016 14: 34
          Quote: bunta
          The more sweaty the fingers, the stronger they need to compress the forend. The presence of a knot removes this problem - the clamping force is transmitted through the edge of the palm.

      4. +11
        30 September 2016 15: 36
        Quote: avt
        The analysis of all the design features of the AK-12 will take a separate topic. Well, we are waiting for the continuation.

        Yes, there will be no sequels, because there is nothing to disassemble. The author went too far, because the things used in the AK-12 are good things, they improve the ergonomics of the weapon, the convenience in its use. Picatinny rails, of course, are a useful thing, most of the body kit in the world come with mounts for it, the butt-telescope, of course, too, the adjustment allows you to adjust the weapon "for yourself." BUT. All these devices are not breakthrough, they are used by a bunch of countries on a heap of weapons and are, so to speak, commonplace. All these shmurdyaks do not add any prodigy of the AK-12. Is the AK-12 a bad assault rifle? Of course not, its design is legendary and proven a hundred times over. But when "Kalashnikov" presents it as a next generation weapon for a banal body kit, it's just ridiculous. request AEK, the machine is really different, how good, experimental operation should show, but different. A conversation about the fact that our army does not need such a complex machine gun can only be spetsure, etc. it's blah blah blah. And what, "Warrior" was created for a simple conscript? Of course not, the complex was created for a professional soldier.
        1. 0
          2 October 2016 18: 44
          But the conscripts will also use the warrior .... like AEK ... in this regard, the Ak-12 is easier with minimal body kits, but do you need more for a mass machine? there’s an example that the French took for the consumption of HK416 (an improved copy of the M4) simply and reliably (and verified) for me the complete analogy with the AK-12. The question is that we often push our products into the lobby ... whoever rolls the more will take it. Main to again, both options did not go into action, we need unification and unified weapons.
          And it will be like with helicopters ..... 3 (!!) of the main combat helicopters ...... there was an article about a crude Mi-28 of actually the 80s, which was shoved by Milevtsy with surging engines and ATGMs of the generation before last, as a result of miserably all tenders except poor Iraq lost.
          1. 0
            9 October 2016 17: 11
            The 28th was accepted into the army because of its simplicity. The same KA50 / 52 requires well, very cool dragonflies behind a stick. Here as with the T-72 / Armata and AK. The army needs a simple, reliable and with good overclocking potential, even on the knee in the basement.
          2. 0
            14 March 2017 11: 10
            not so complicated AEK. bloated the devil knows what. The conscript also can handle him if he wants. But he doesn’t want to - and AKM will be too complicated.
      5. +1
        30 September 2016 16: 51
        You are right when you say that you have to wait for specific figures, otherwise it will be the usual "blah, blah"
      6. 0
        30 September 2016 18: 26
        Dear avt, please explain since when "Well, like that, yes, here they are holding a Kalash for the store, well, they have not read the author and his rationale for gripping the machine." Served 18 years ago, it was strictly forbidden to keep behind the store in order to avoid misfires.
        1. +3
          30 September 2016 20: 42
          This is from the instructions of the SA. And this is one of many pictures, there is not only shooting at air targets.

      7. 0
        23 March 2017 21: 29
        AVT! Well, you, sir, and evil! laughing
    4. +1
      30 September 2016 09: 49
      It doesn't matter what they will accept there: "AK-12" or AEK.


      Well, why then did this garden garden?
    5. +4
      30 September 2016 14: 54
      The life pendulum is swayed by crooks, and this pendulum is powered by the energy of the meager, who, in spite of everything, "BELIEVE". "Believe" as long as they are lied to. Thinking is difficult and boring ...
    6. +5
      30 September 2016 20: 48
      I applaud standing up.

      I am an old airsoft player and computer player of tactical shooters.

      I always said that the picatinny bar is a very conditionally useful thing. Swallowtail from AK, great. Allows you to mount the sight as needed and remove it for safety without changing its "drive to zero".

      In the two photos you see two different ways to hold the AK while shooting.

      See features.

      In the first photo, the so-called "American grip" was first described by an American on YouTube with a detailed explanation and experimental demonstration. U increases the accuracy of fire from 25 to 50%. Proved clearly in the experiment.
      Features grip. Stand front to the target. The butt rests against the pectoral muscle. The left hand is extended and holds the forearm without bending at the elbow. The machine is controlled by the left hand, the right hand processes the descent. Effectively at short, especially middle distances.
      Obviously, the Romanian pen does not belong here.

      The second photograph is a statutory Soviet grip. Features The body is deployed with the left shoulder to the enemy. The left arm is bent at the elbow. The right hand holds the machine by the handle and presses it to the shoulder. The Americans criticized this stance. And probably they are right. Who is interested in experimenting, please.

      The author of the article perfectly described everything that an army machine needs.

      High-temp cut-off for two cartridges and only it makes sense. For a rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute, the cutoff will only harm the shooter.

      Picatini has more minuses than pluses. But all standard sights are tied to this bar. Therefore, you have to put up.

      In general, respect to the author.
      1. +9
        30 September 2016 22: 05
        Quote: gladcu2
        . Y increases fire accuracy from 25 to 50%. He proved it clearly in the experiment.

        I do not believe. Who did the experiment, who was compared with what, what are the positions for shooting, what type of shooting?
        This is a static pose. For quiet accurate aiming and a single fire, it is suitable. But the elongated left weighs more on the left shoulder. Front to target, not to enemy. The target does not shoot at you. The profile of the front is wider, therefore, since the time of Pushkin’s duel, in Orthodox, the enemy is not facing, but sideways.

        But the Americans most likely came up with the Soviet grip and they criticized it. There is no "Soviet" grip and never was. Pressing with the right hand is unnatural anatomically. Therefore, we can of course say that according to the regulations, the Soviet soldiers press with their right hand and this is wrong, but it is practically impossible to test this theory, because not a single soldier will press with the right.
        The correct grip with the left hand is determined by anatomy and physics. The grip should be such that the muscles are less strained. And they will strain less when the central heating center is located between two support points in the middle. That is, between the shoulder and the grip point on the forearm. The body itself will find this point and it is not necessary to load it with all sorts of wisdom.
        In general, when I see how Western sports terminology and methods are being imposed on our units, I begin to get confused. The peak of moronism is the change of the store with his left hand.
        Do you know where they got the knee pads and elbow pieces from? They go into the stalls, rattling on both knees, and then forward to the elbows. They shoot a pistol holding on to him with both hands! belay
        1. +4
          30 September 2016 22: 44
          bunta

          Why argue? Give it a try.

          If you can’t sit, look on YouTube. True, there are 100 times more information in English than in Russian and specifically in AK. Since Americans love AK and PM more than glock and MKI. Surprisingly, the PM is also due to the cartridge.

          I was convinced myself in practice. True. And I tried all kinds of pizza with callimators and tactical pens. Cheap, airsoft. And I have seen enough comparative information from the same YouTube.

          The difference between cheap airsoft and expensive combat is only in price and strength and 10% quality of optics. But the price is around 350-1500 dollars. Not all pros can afford to experiment with a canopy, like airsoft players do.

          And Picatinny figured it out. Shit else. So much dirt sticks to them. And they tear the skin. He took off his sight, hitched it back to zero. But the dovetail on the AK becomes with a probability of 80%. Which is not very bad, just do not touch the scope, which is still tightly fixed on Picatinny.

          All these handles under the forend also interfere. Well, run through the forest and crawl along the snags. For the machine, all these branches and bushes are so grabbed that they are torn out of the hands. Therefore, I consider it superfluous. Yes, and weight too. Every gram save.

          Then in the city, there is another tactic. There, the grip on the machine is completely different. A fore-end handle is not needed there. There, a battle suddenly arises. Almost the enemy can not be caught. Generally nose to nose. And there it is.

          In general, not even a modernized AK-74 is already good. And if you select the Kalimator and install it CORRECTLY. Then all the benefits are on your side.
          1. +1
            2 October 2016 08: 42
            All these handles under the forend also interfere. Well, run through the forest and crawl along the snags. For the machine, all these branches and bushes are so grabbed that they are torn out of the hands. Therefore, I consider it superfluous

            you can see that the fighting didn’t take place on a limited area of ​​100 to 100 which you can crawl from edge to edge on the belly (clings), the machine, like its body kit, is averaged for all situations at once (standing and removed, the handle will not hurt), but not for separate.
            1. 0
              4 October 2016 00: 37
              Free

              That is the whole point. That hostilities do not consist only in shootings from personal weapons. Therefore, for an ordinary soldier, a sufficient minimum is important. This is a good, unpretentious, ARMY OPTICS. And a good machine that does not require daily attention.
              And all that extra, pens, bipods is not for an ordinary soldier, but for a specialist who knows why he needs it.
          2. +1
            5 October 2016 13: 04
            Quote: gladcu2
            And Picatinny figured it out. Shit else. So much dirt sticks to them. And they tear the skin. He took off his sight, hitched it back to zero. But the dovetail on the AK becomes with a probability of 80%. Which is not very bad, just do not touch the scope, which is still tightly fixed on Picatinny.

            but there are adapters from dovetail to picatinny, cost from 5 rubles, a simple example from our "zenith"

            The same kit body kit (butt + pistol grip + forend and gas tube cover) costs an average of 250-300 evergreen presidents
            Well, optics was always expensive.
            1. +1
              6 October 2016 02: 57
              Psyh2097

              Your adapter or side bracket is not very good. Too pretentious. There is easier where there are not so many small holes.

              Why is it better to mount such a bracket than to fix the straps firmly.

              When you mount the sight on the bar, you need to be sure that one hundred bar is clean. Not dusty. And it's easy to dust it. The scope is superimposed on top and there is a risk that it will not sit evenly due to contamination.

              When attaching a side bracket with pre-installed optics, the bracket slides along the guides of the dovetail, cleaning along the surface of the mount. And the likelihood of synchronization is very high.

              Therefore, it makes sense to establish the release of standard optics under the side bracket, instead of releasing an allegedly new machine.
          3. 0
            9 October 2016 17: 19
            Why not zero out on the rail? It rises normally if set as it was;) it’s not just that the normal rail is numbered. If the quick-detachable adapter (standard) is generally a song. Why even shoot a sight ???
            For cheap models of collimators: they not only have better optics, they also have water protection and night mode ... the battery works for years ... -> RELIABILITY
          4. 0
            14 March 2017 11: 15
            Kalash because of the dimensions and ammunition is not very for urban battles
            look at the experience of the Israelis, they tried a bunch of weapons and came to the Taurus
            for urban fights
        2. +2
          1 October 2016 00: 00
          Kneeling on their knees, this is how you like it. There are all sorts of tricks about 10. How to lower the profile. Knee pads are also a necessary thing. At least one knee.

          Shoot with two hands, this is also how it goes. But a two-handed grip is good for an ARMY weapon with a heavy and long descent, and especially if it is not smooth. Then the left hand controls the pistol, and the right handles the descent.

          For example, the Colt 1911 has a short and easy descent. You can shoot with one hand. But he has an extra fuse on the back of his head. But PM has a long and hard descent. Aiming can only be shot with two hands. With one hand only athletes can confidently handle the PM.
        3. +1
          6 October 2016 12: 25
          Bunta, well done !!
      2. 0
        1 October 2016 08: 18
        Quote: gladcu2
        Picatini has more minuses than pluses. But all standard sights are tied to this bar. Therefore, you have to put up.
        Better not yet come up. And about the convenience of location - there are options.
        1. +3
          1 October 2016 15: 08
          Ingvar 72

          I think this kind of belt fastening is a tribute to fashion. The benefit in it is only the demonstration of weapons and the readiness of their use. If you remember footage in the Crimea. This is just the case.

          Really, the most practical way is the classic one. The length of the belt should be such that it can be quickly mounted on the weapon without sagging. The belt, if it is long, interferes very much. It falls under the arms, closes sights, clings to foreign objects.

          A belt is actually only needed for carrying weapons. There are several ways when the belt is used to improve targeted shooting, but these are all special things, when there is preparation time and the direction from which the enemy appears will be known.

          I don’t see what kind of optics you have. I can suggest that this is a calimator.

          I consider the choice of a calimator unsuccessful. Too big and will close the review. You need to install the calimator in your case 10-15 centimeters further than shown. If it's an optical sight. That his location is correct. An arrow is 10-15 cm from the eye.

          On your machine gun, the sight is mounted rigidly on the picatinny rails. This is mistake. In reality, the sight is worn in a pouch in order to protect it as much as possible from the external environment. And set before the battle. Then it is important that he becomes exactly in place, as he was shot. Picatinny strips in this case are not suitable. They accumulate dirt on themselves. Therefore, the dovetail AK is exactly what you need.

          You have a folding butt. I would not choose a butt like yours. You can not securely attach a pillow under his cheek. Like the SVD. The thing is very useful. When you throw up the machine, the cheek rests on the pillow and the dot of the calimator becomes clearly before the shooter. To ignore such a device is not reasonable. I would choose a frame folding butt. And would have fixed such a pillow on it. After attaching the pillow, the butt most likely will not fold completely, but this is not particularly necessary, it is enough that the machine will become shorter. This butt has another feature, it is convenient to fasten the belt loop on it.

          The optical sight is sufficiently 4x. Features, weight, size, field of view, backlight, and so on, there are many more features. I would say that having a photo element for highlighting the sight is not necessary. A tablet battery is enough. They are not expensive and reliable and last a long time. A pack of pills does not take up much space.

          Here is a criticism of your machine.
          1. 0
            4 October 2016 00: 41
            I apologize to the respectable public. For the grammar mistakes made. Unfortunately for technical reasons I can’t edit the text.
            Thank you for the criticism.
      3. +5
        2 October 2016 11: 24
        Quote: gladcu2
        I am an old airsoft player and computer player of tactical shooters.
        Ahahah, I didn’t laugh like that for a long time laughing Apparently, you and the author of the article found each other in your competencies. And here I am an old cyclist and a player in car simulators, I just can’t get any rights wink
        1. 0
          4 October 2016 01: 15
          Navigator Basov

          I won’t argue about the bike with you. laughing good drinks
    7. +4
      30 September 2016 23: 40
      Quote: aktanir
      He clearly explained, you will not say anything. It’s a pity that for so many years all kinds of crooks in the concern have been hanging noodles on the ears of the people. After such articles, you stop believing in something truthful and good, both in politics and in the military sphere.

      And where did you get the idea that you clearly explained? I saw in this article only the personal emotions and subjective perceptions of the author and nothing else. The author can hardly claim the truth of the last instance, the truth will be revealed only by the military test and the reviews of those who will run in the field with this machine gun and shoot, the author may think the picatinny bar is unnecessary, and to another it is quite necessary, and so on all points, according to to which the author of the article speaks. In general, the article looks like a customized article, everything is in the same vein - everything is bad, "the mustache is gone, chief."
      1. +1
        1 October 2016 00: 32
        svidetel

        And what do you doubt?

        The author is 100% right. If you want me, I will compare the AK-12 with the AK-74 not in favor of the AK-12, I can take a very long time. Only on the basis of appearance. Because inside the AK-12 sits the legitimate AK-74.
        The Ak-12 is not an army assault rifle, but whatever sports, collectible is a civilian weapon. ARMY there is nothing in it.

        Why, I need to write another 5 minutes.

        Let me tell you about balanced automation. So that it immediately becomes clear to all and no questions arise.

        The army is divided into hard workers and specialists. I'm talking about infantry. (Motorized riflemen or marines with paratroopers). Specialists are those who are at the forefront of the battle, leaders. The rest is the mass of average people.

        So in the army they give balanced mechanics to specialists. Because specialists have time to look after the machine. They are given this time because of their work. They do the hardest, but they also protect them like the apple of an eye.

        Hard workers, soldiers do not even have time to sleep, have nothing at all. They drag the brunt of the war. They have this balanced automation, death. Because there is no time to clean it all from soot. Therefore, for them the AK-74 is the most.

        I will not find fault and make fun of AK-12. Specials do not need, and the hard workers are even more so. The garbage collector, not the machine.

        I have been criticizing him for a long time.
        1. 0
          1 October 2016 09: 38
          Quote: gladcu2
          The Ak-12 is not an army assault rifle, but whatever sports, collectible is a civilian weapon.

          So AK-74 weapons are not army, but assault (weakened army).
          On a 5,45x39 mm cartridge, it is most likely impossible to create a full-fledged army weapon. He is too weak. If you are looking for samples of a full-fledged army weapon, take a closer look at that on the 5,56 × 45 mm NATO cartridge
        2. +1
          2 October 2016 08: 49
          The author is 100% right. If you want me, I will compare the AK-12 with the AK-74 not in favor of the AK-12, I can take a very long time.

          do mercy!
          1. 0
            4 October 2016 01: 07
            free

            Spatial comparison requires more time. For speed, the author has already written quite a lot.

            In brief, only by concept.

            There are three weapon concepts. Army, civilian, special. The differences are significant. Each concept has its own set of requirements. If a weapon is located in an area where its properties intersect in a different concept, it is impossible to say that this weapon is good.

            If the AK-12 was made army, then why does it not correspond to the level of simplicity of army weapons? For example, why are there so many picatinny slats? Why didn’t they pay attention to the fact that the picatini bar also pollutes the weapon. And to clean the dirt from it is not enough toothpicks.

            But the AK-74 has acceptable army minimalism. There is a good dovetail. After all, it is right to carry a weapon by removing the optics in the pouch.

            Replaceable trunks of the army are not needed. Since the army does not want to deal with various ammunition.

            All these extra things translate the AK-12 into the concept of civilian weapons, for which a huge variety of awnings is welcome.

            AK-12 tried to get into a special weapon, a little bit. That in general neither to the village nor to the city. Special weapons are very narrowly ground. For example, high accuracy is associated with high cost and many inconveniences. And manufacturers tried to drive AK-12 into this area.

            In general, using reflection on the principles of the three concepts of small arms, we can say that the AK-12 as an army weapon is worthless. Rather civil.

            To argue for a long time.
    8. +1
      1 October 2016 22: 34
      “I explained it clearly, you won’t say anything. It’s a pity that for so many years all the crooks in the concern have been hanging on the people’s ears. After such articles, you stop believing in something truthful and good both in politics and in the military sphere.”

      And what did he explain to whom? Caught up in fog with science-based sentences and nothing concrete. I got the impression that this guy didn’t run with AK or AEK, he didn’t shoot, and so, another allegedly vyser expert. Diopter in the eye when returning to call - does he even represent what he is talking about? More likely only on the drawn pictures ...
      1. 0
        2 October 2016 11: 58
        Quote: ARES623
        supposedly an expert
        The easiest way to seem like an expert is to state the position of the retrograde: but earlier it was better. All these your mounting brackets - from the evil one, better than the grandfathers did, modern people will not do. In general, the secret of damask steel is lost, my mobile phone is push-button, and my home phone is generally a disk.
        This author demonstrates for the most part, and it is easy to find support from readers, because someone here used AK-74 (but AK-12 did not use it), and indeed retrograde is quite popular at VO, as the site update showed. For a similar position (non-constructive) of the retrograde expert and an emotional exposition, the general message was drowned in the direction of industry as a whole: there is no order, no goals and objectives, plants hang out like shit in an ice hole, management changes like gloves - efficiency drops dramatically.
        1. 0
          3 October 2016 16: 47
          "there is no order, there are no goals and objectives, the factories hang out like shit in an ice hole"

          Pretty shit, 14 yards of green. Maybe decent Germany has more? Or who's not "shit" yet? "Shit" is more likely in front of you in the mirror ...
    9. 0
      26 October 2016 10: 47
      Everything that the capitalist extended his arms to turns into shit. The fact proved by life. The rest is tinsel and wrapper. The speculator doesn’t care what loot is to be made of: weapons or sweets (hello, little pigs). And why is it wrong with us? Not as funny as theirs, but the essence is the same.
      1. 0
        26 October 2016 17: 19
        When I hear the argument "capitalist" the thought immediately comes to my mind that he is writing a rogue. When the DPRK comes up with at least something more sensible (not sopet, as usual with others, but will develop it itself), then your argument will have at least some right to life. In the meantime, it is the capitalists who move the armaments.
    10. 0
      26 October 2016 11: 28
      Very convincingly, reasonedly and ... very badly, if that is the case.
    11. 0
      26 June 2017 08: 00
      The concern, in my opinion, has generally turned into a haven of cunning rogues trying to abandon the state. How much noise there was around the AK-12, the newest fantastic machine gun of the 74st century, and in fact it turned out to be a repainted AK-971M with a new body kit. At the same time, the beautiful AEK-XNUMX was destroyed, which is even more difficult, albeit more expensive, but it is really good and easy to shoot. And in my opinion, when it comes to the life of our soldier, it is somehow indecent to talk about the complexity and high cost of production.
  2. +5
    30 September 2016 07: 25
    The author is for balanced mechanics and at the same time the main thing is reliability, and these are, as it were, the different ends of the stick. The fact that there are problems is clear to everyone.
  3. +1
    30 September 2016 07: 31
    Is it so bad? Are there no smart generals left in the Defense Ministry? It seems that the leadership of the army is now better than ever (as it was called) in the new Russian history. The percentage of crooks and all sorts of h (m) blows has certainly grown, but not everything has disappeared.
    1. +15
      30 September 2016 09: 45
      Quote: Michael
      Are there no smart generals left in the Defense Ministry?

      Well, why, most likely there is ...
      Just firstly, they decide little (and how else to interpret the fact that after the failure of the tests the machine continues to actively impose on the army?)
      Well, secondly, and the author of the article casually mentioned this, these "smart generals" are simply unable to explain what kind of machine gun the army needs.

      Why? Because there is no scientific basis for this. Now everyone is inclined to blame this on Serdyukov, but in fact the okolomedvedev faction of the liberal reformers simply brought to a logical conclusion the process of defeating military science. Which began even under Gorbachev, her financial strangulation.

      Here, after all, everything is the same as in "big science" - without fundamental research, there are no applied ones.
      In the appendix to the new assault rifle, tactical specialists should indicate what dispersion the "cartridge-assault rifle-man" complex should give and at what range it should be optimized. Specialists in ergonomics and military psychology - what form it should have and what should be the controls. And so on

      The liberal reformers decided that such studies should be carried out by private owners with the money of arms manufacturers. But the latter is not interesting. it’s easier for them to engage in covert battles in lobby offices and in the media. It is cheaper, it does not require strong problems with the creation of a scientific and technical base
      1. +3
        30 September 2016 09: 57
        Quote: Spade
        The liberal reformers decided that such studies should be carried out by private owners with the money of arms manufacturers.

        Who pays, he orders the music. It is very convenient to enter into a conspiracy with a manufacturer in a conspiracy. For example, I justify that without your development the army is not an army, but you will give me a rollback from the purchase when I push my rationale into the MO. Beauty!
        1. +5
          30 September 2016 10: 13
          It is too. How many decades "scientists" for grants from manufacturers of tetraethyl lead have been proving that it is absolutely harmless to health ...
          But at the moment this is not a threat to the RF Armed Forces.
          For effective managers prefer to do everything even cheaper. Including under the slogan "support for domestic industry." Say, "the army is obliged to buy what it does not need, so that the plant having ... a year-old history ... does not go bankrupt (insert the necessary)
          1. +3
            30 September 2016 10: 48
            Quote: Spade
            Say, "the army is obliged to buy what it does not need, so that the plant having ... a year-old history ... does not go bankrupt (insert the necessary)

            Well, in fact, there is some reason for this. I will stand up for the factory workers a little. Scattering factories is also not worth it. Already scattered, already sick. Sometimes it is better to give an order for not the most perfect weapon, if only the engineers from the design bureau did not scatter in search of a better life. Another question is that under this sauce, effective managers knock out contracts, and engineers just sit with a salary of 20 thousand rubles and are still there. But this is not always the case. There is such a shipyard "Yantar". One of the few living plants. Left without orders in the absence of turbines from Ukraine. He was supported by placing an order for small rocket ships. Better so than not at all. Although the sailors are understandable, they would be more happy to receive TFR from this plant, and not MRK. MRK - what is he? Booger! From a military point of view, we now need the TFR much more.
      2. 0
        2 October 2016 01: 38
        Lopatov

        I could write a requirement for army weapons. But it will be the same AK-74. The only thing you need to add a canopy is a four-fold sight and a calimator on top of it. And all the requirements will be only to the canopy. To optics.

        Talking about a new machine model is absolutely pointless. This is explained by the fact that the AK-74 satisfies all requirements limited by the PHYSICAL POSSIBILITIES OF HUMAN.
  4. 0
    30 September 2016 07: 36
    Wait and see...
  5. +10
    30 September 2016 07: 57
    Why was this AK-12 needed at all? Why do the conscripts and half of the contractors, who can't shoot, need all these picatinny rails? What will they bet on them? The special forces already have their own for the tuned (for their own money!) AK, this AK-12 did not give up to them at all. It would be better if the money for the development of this "miracle" was spent on the purchase of tuning for parts of the SPN. And for the rest of the AK-74M is enough with the head.
    1. +4
      30 September 2016 09: 53
      In which case, where will we put night optics? Or the Desert Storm repeats, only from the infantry side - already fighters with night vision devices and thermal imaging sights are running, and we only have to hold a soldier in their hand.
      1. +1
        30 September 2016 11: 28
        NVD on a helmet, NVD on a weapon is extremely inconvenient. All kinds of sights can be placed on the AK-74M on the side bracket.
        1. +3
          30 September 2016 12: 14
          You can, you can. You can a lot of things. You can still dance naked, but few do it. The story with the weapon is this - you either move forward or die out.
        2. 0
          1 October 2016 01: 42
          Quote: RussKamikadZE
          NVD on a helmet, NVD on a weapon is extremely inconvenient. All kinds of sights can be placed on the AK-74M on the side bracket.

          If you stick the NVD on the helmet, then it will be either very difficult or impossible to heal. Only prehistoric monsters are attached to the dovetail, instead of which it is easier to drag another BC to the machine. And in terms of quality they are trash.
    2. +10
      30 September 2016 12: 12
      Quote: RussKamikadZE
      Why was this AK-12 needed at all? Why do the conscripts and half of the contractors, who can't shoot, need all these picatinny rails? What will they bet on them? The special forces already have their own for the tuned (for their own money!) AK, this AK-12 did not give up to them at all. It would be better if the money for the development of this "miracle" was spent on the purchase of tuning for parts of the SPN. And for the rest of the AK-74M is enough with the head.


      Then, that it is evil - to repeat that the conscript must fight with dubjem. The conscript must fight with good modern weapons. Of course, it is possible with a three-line, it is possible with a musket, it is possible with a stone (in general, a wonderful weapon, it is difficult to break something of arias). But somehow with modern is better.
      1. +1
        30 September 2016 12: 37
        Before you get modern weapons, a soldier must undergo training. Now the term is 1 year, during this time how many firing will he produce? 3-4? 5-10 rounds each? On which he has all these picatinny rail? Half of modern conscripts butt under the arm clamps, and does not rest against the shoulder. In battle, there is no difference between the AK-74M and the AK-12. But conscripts should not fight, the era is not.
        1. +2
          30 September 2016 17: 20
          Quote: RussKamikadZE
          Now the deadline is 1 year, during which time will it produce how many shots? 3-4? By 5-10 ammo? Which way would he have all these picatinny slats? Half of the modern conscripts butt under the armpit pinches, and does not rest against the shoulder. Him in

          And it depends on the other. Then, in principle, why any weapons if five rounds are shot? What's the point then
        2. +2
          30 September 2016 19: 49
          Quote: RussKamikadZE
          Half of modern conscripts butt under the arm clamps, and does not rest against the shoulder.

          The trouble is if there are such soldiers in the army, and it’s even more trouble when they consider their army a bunch of idiots!
          1. 0
            2 October 2016 08: 54
            and soldiers are taught by commanders, which means they’re poorly taught once the butt is under the arm
        3. +6
          3 October 2016 17: 15
          "Before receiving modern weapons, a soldier must undergo training. Now the deadline is 1 year, during this time how many shots will he fire? 3-4? 5-10 rounds each? Where does he have all these picatinny rails? Half of modern conscripts have a butt under his arm squeezes, but not against the shoulder. He has no difference in battle between AK-74M and AK-12. And conscripts should not fight, the era is not. "

          And in what units did you deign to serve? And in general, did they serve? Even in the shaggy 90s, a soldier of a motorized rifle unit had 3 shooting trainings a week, and at least 2 BM drivers. During the shooting training, the soldier performed the UKS at least 2 times, which is 25-35 rounds for AK. I will not tell anyone what to squeeze in the armpit, but in order for the unit (MSV) to receive an assessment of "satisfactory" (for "fail" the regiment will live on the training ground for the next six months, headed by the command post and half the time with the deputy. all together will lose weight by a couple of sizes) it is necessary that "2" was no more than 2-3, and not from the commanders. Who really served will understand me. And if it happens, everyone will have to fight, including conscripts. So you, dear comrade RussKamikadZE, do not lay noodles on fences here, there are people who are well versed in the service of the troops, they will stuff your armpit x .... into an armful, and they will be right.
        4. 0
          12 October 2016 15: 45
          Do you really believe that the time will come when politicians do not want to use conscripts to solve their problems and without any responsibility?
          Check out the latest examples from Ukraine. And there are incidents in Israel too.
    3. +2
      2 October 2016 12: 15
      They will put on them what is included in the “Warrior” set. Regularly. Let me remind you that the kit includes (already):
      - a video module for sheltering, consisting of a thermal imaging sight and a helmet-mounted monitor with a control system, which displays the image from the sight;
      - several types of thermal imaging sights: 1ПН139 (large-caliber), 1ПН140 (for normal observation) and an option for reconnaissance (without a name);
      - Shahin thermal imaging sight, which provides for the detection, recognition and firing of aimed fire at targets at any time of the day in a simple and complex meteorological setting;
      - day-night sighting system (DNPK) for small arms, including the 1P87 collimator sight, 1ПН138 night monocular, 1П90 telescope and 1К241 laser pointer; can significantly increase the efficiency of hitting targets from small arms, when using a night monocular with a collimator sight or laser target designator - to conduct aimed fire at dusk and in low light conditions.
      Oh, these retrograde! Poorly informed, not wanting to be aware of, retrograde obsessed with their point of view.
  6. +3
    30 September 2016 07: 57
    Managers will destroy us!
    1. +5
      30 September 2016 12: 14
      Quote: ratfly
      Managers will destroy us!

      Ruin is not a manager. Thieves and patriots will ruin
      1. 0
        2 October 2016 12: 17
        Manager, log in smile
  7. +1
    30 September 2016 08: 07
    The "stool" case continues to live and work! It is not known how long it is possible to step on a rake ... It has been repeatedly said that private traders and "Varangians" will not think at the state level and about the people in general, and everyone is trying to raise an "effective manager" and "zealous owner" will take care of Russia.
    With rare exceptions, these attempts are futile. "Single-handedness" in a country like ours can only lead to collapse. This is what we observe from year to year. Everything that was built with big sweat and blood continues to collapse (albeit more slowly than before, but still). And at the state level, attempts to "grab" everyone and everything are not abandoned ... I am not trying to denigrate the GDP, but ... maybe it will stop allowing those who "grope the bottom" to the economy and the distribution of funds? ...
    ... Sorry for this cry of the soul, but it was already painful to watch this mess ...
    1. +1
      30 September 2016 12: 15
      Quote: A.Lex
      "Single-mindedness" in a country like ours can only lead to collapse.

      What leads to the collapse in our country is corruption and theft at all levels, as well as the unpredictability of business development. That's all.
      1. 0
        30 September 2016 14: 03
        Quote: Pimply
        What leads to the collapse in our country is corruption and theft at all levels, as well as the unpredictability of business development. That's all.

        Who hurts. smile
      2. +1
        30 September 2016 20: 58
        Irresponsibility leads to the collapse in our country. Project ak-12 failed? WHO answered for this?
  8. 0
    30 September 2016 08: 14
    Everything is with us as always. Through w .. *, oh through Russia)) There was information that instead of ak12 they will take the ak400-series developed for security officials.
  9. +3
    30 September 2016 08: 21
    Strange article ...
    I am an amateur in terms of AK. However, as an engineer, I will clarify two obvious and banal simple aspects:
    1. We have Product_0 which has properties A, B, C.
    Product_0М (modernization) properties A, B, C + D (from modernization) + D (refinement of existing parts).
    2. We got Product_1 with properties A, B, C, D but without D. Then we make new parts right away, and not finish the old stuff.

    PS: The scheme is naturally primitive. But if you draw an analogy with the engines. You can make a detonation jet engine, or you can detonation diesel. Only in the first case we have a gain, and in the second is the effect doubtful. Nobody has canceled the laws of nature, we can do something more ideal, but we will not go beyond the limit.
    ZYZY: And then analytically you can calculate any numbers, but many people forget to take into account the practical aspect in specific circumstances.
    1. +15
      30 September 2016 09: 16
      You see what the ficus picus is ... Here the problem is not engineering, here the problem is commercial.

      Primitive scheme: you have 1000 shovels. Of these, 50 are used, the rest in warehouses for decades in factory lubrication. Effective managers offer you: and buy a thousand more of the same shovels, but with a special handle to make it easier to throw the ground. For 1000 rubles each. At the same time, the cost of such a pen is 50 rubles, and for one ruble your warehouse managers can easily install them on existing ones. Question: What will you choose?

      You see, it makes little sense to spend a lot of money on upgrading AK12. For no fundamental changes will follow. The only thing is that they look more glamorous. But the look can be improved in a much more budgetary way by stupidly purchasing much cheaper upgrade kits.

      A new assault rifle should be purchased only if its performance characteristics are fundamentally improved in comparison with those already available in the troops and in warehouses. Otherwise, it is just a commercial operation, designed not to improve the armament of the RF Armed Forces, but to "master" the state defense order, thus making a profit.
      1. avt
        +3
        30 September 2016 09: 29
        Quote: Spade
        A new machine should be purchased only if its performance characteristics are fundamentally improved compared to those already available in the troops and in warehouses.

        good This is exactly what happened, or rather did not happen taking into account the cost-effectiveness of the tests with all the nishtyaks on the topic Abakan and other AEK-type samples. Good, but not giving some kind of super advantage.
        Quote: Spade
        Otherwise, it is just a commercial operation, designed not to improve the armament of the RF Armed Forces, but to "master" the state defense order, thus making a profit.

        request Well, the market will regulate everything, and as you know
        "Provide capital with 10% profit, and the capital agrees to any use, at 20% it becomes lively, at 50% it is positively ready to break its head, at 100% it violates all human laws, with 300% there is no crime for which it does not would venture to go, at least under pain of the gallows "
        1. +5
          30 September 2016 09: 55
          Quote: avt
          This is exactly what happened, or rather did not happen taking into account the cost-effectiveness of the tests with all the nishtyaks on the topic Abakan and other AEK-type samples. Good, but not giving some kind of super advantage.

          I am not sure that these tests were adequate. Well, perhaps "Abakan" ... When TTZ was given for its development, the army could still normally explain its Wishlist
          1. 0
            30 September 2016 10: 37
            Quote: Spade
            I am not sure that these tests were adequate. Well, perhaps "Abakan" ... When TTZ was given for its development, the army could still normally explain its Wishlist

            There was such a designer German Aleksandrovich Korobov. Before starting work on the creation of the machine, I studied the tactics of its use and a product was already created for this tactics. This is the TKB-0111 assault rifle. From this machine the technical characteristics of the machine were written for the "Abokan" competition. By the way, for some reason, the TKB-0111 submachine gun did not take part in this competition.
            1. +2
              30 September 2016 20: 32
              Quote: Bad_gr
              This is the TKB-0111 assault rifle. From this machine the technical characteristics of the machine were written for the "Abokan" competition. By the way, for some reason, the TKB-0111 submachine gun did not take part in this competition.

              I took it. And one of the reasons why they chose AFM in this plate ...
        2. 0
          30 September 2016 21: 36
          For just a quote, the classic would give you +100!
      2. 0
        30 September 2016 15: 48
        Quote: Spade
        A new machine should be purchased only if its performance characteristics are fundamentally improved

        From the article and comments are not visible real performance improvements, especially at times in relation to existing weapons. Gadgets and opportunities are needed by specialists and the elite. But still. We must wait for the end of the test. AND THEN start a PUBLIC discussion of the results. To help the state commission.
        1. +6
          30 September 2016 17: 50
          Wait for the test to finish? In fact, the Kalashnikovs have already failed them. But to see there is a decision to continue them until they win.
    2. avt
      +1
      30 September 2016 09: 22
      Quote: Penzuck
      However, as an engineer, I will clarify two obvious and banal simple aspects:

      good Separately, but most importantly
      Quote: tchoni
      A new generation of small arms, usually with a new cartridge begins.

      Quote: Penzuck
      And then analytically, you can calculate any numbers, but many people forget to take into account the practical aspect in specific circumstances.

      No. They do not forget, but so cutely they omit in lobbying the interests of obtaining a budget order. There are two factors to be reminded. Firstly, testing the compliance of the TTX of the submitted sample declared for compliance with the fulfillment of the conditions of the assignment, moreover, in comparison with competitors and conducting an independent, sovereign examiner; Secondly, monitoring by specialized sovereign bodies for lobbying their copy by bribing officials by bribing, which is now elegantly called corruption. But the second can be missed - "We don't have 37 goals"
  10. +11
    30 September 2016 08: 27
    A new generation of small arms, usually with a new cartridge begins .... - imperial wisdom .....
    But seriously, the army, in my opinion, understands this very well, as well as the fact that neither modularity, nor multi-caliber, nor the possibility of firing a series of dants is an assault rifle of superproperties, but only slightly improves operational performance. And these improvements can only be appreciated by a very competent user. And only to a very competent user they are able to give some kind of advantages. A competent user is a shooter athlete who is engaged in daily shooting. And what we have in the army is not at all, with rare exceptions. So at the average motorized infantry firing once a month ... And even less often. And all kinds of different techniques, EW men, anti-aircraft gunners, tank crews — and in general they can take personal weapons on the oath, and hold them on guard. So it turns out that for the average soldier and Abakan and AEK and Ak12 and Ak74 one field of berries by and large. The request not to scold much is a personal IMHO
  11. +2
    30 September 2016 08: 31
    It's only the beginning :(
    Soon, victims of the exam will begin to come to the management of large companies. This is where the fun begins. "Effective" managers of the nineties and zero will simply seem like geniuses against their background.
    1. +1
      30 September 2016 09: 43
      The children of the "90s" have already arrived. All for pull, do not care about competence. It happens that the question: "How did you get this at all and where it came from, an honest answer follows - from the panel."
    2. 0
      30 September 2016 21: 42
      Quote: Yakut
      geniuses will seem against their background.

      No. GENITALS.
  12. 0
    30 September 2016 08: 32
    Marshals and generals! Find the second Kalashnikov from the rank and file and do not stop him from creating a new machine gun.
  13. 0
    30 September 2016 08: 34
    Look at YouTube channel men's toys.
  14. +1
    30 September 2016 08: 50
    In my opinion, pampering is everything from the evil one ... Modularity and so on. Shooting with existing ammunition reached perfection (nothing better than AK in the aggregate of characteristics there). A machine gun is not a sporting weapon for a shooting gallery, a battle in a field, a trench, a city building is a bit of a shooting gallery and not a competition.
    We need a breakthrough, and not just another tuning: liquid powder with feeding into the chamber from a cylinder, for example.
    1. 0
      2 October 2016 12: 27
      Yes, it is better to immediately gaseous gunpowder, it compresses well, you can carry more gunpowder in the tank.
    2. 0
      12 October 2016 15: 50
      no, breakouts are still possible. The Israeli Tabor shows that not all decisions have been exhausted.
  15. +12
    30 September 2016 08: 53
    The article has too many emotions and information is presented in the manner of obviousness of presentation, although no arguments are given to the article at all. This cheating manner of presentation is often used by all sorts of whistleblowers, such as Fomenko. Picatinny, yes picatinny, that's all, nothing more to say about it because the author is not familiar with the technical component of the problem in general. From what I heard crying about the AK-12, it’s about a thin barrel, which was made easier to reduce weight and which, attention!, Bends when using a shotgun! And yet, the tests of two automatic machines are going on which year, which makes you think. Apparently about the applicant, they are very far from the requirements of the Ministry of Defense, so they can’t stop at a specific sample. Yes, and what to expect from the office, which in pursuit of profit from the release of machines switched to toys and key chains.
  16. +11
    30 September 2016 08: 55
    The new AK-12/15 held in his hands. And he spoke with representatives of the concern at the inset Forum Army 2016. True, the conversation came out short and I don’t know how much these representatives are in the topic, but obviously they are not amateurs, they will not allow such delegations to foreign delegations.
    In fact:
    1. The army did not accept the AK-12 version of last year because of "the complexity of overproduction and increased financial costs." This is how they answered me. I did not understand what exactly the army did not pull in finance, but I accepted the answer.
    2. A new option - a compromise option, which seems to suit the army. May be. What I didn’t like.
    - extra position "cutoff for 2 shots". Any beginner can be taught to confidently cut off two rounds after a month of shooting at most! What the hell is this twist on the translator? And who asked to leave?
    - sealed forend. An attempt to firmly take the weapon in hand immediately showed that the left palm would not hold the angular edges for a long time. Inconvenient. The representatives shrugged their shoulders and said, "Well, the military knows better." What exactly "well, see" I did not understand, but I removed the question. The guys obviously couldn't say anything else.
    - In the previous version there was a new flag-type fire translator. Convenient thing. And it seems to be a little shorter receiver. In the new version, again the usual lever and the old box. Isn't that what the finances of the Moscow Region pulled? Strange, but alright.
    - the barrel is the same, 415 mm. New DTK. I can only estimate efficiency by eye through the video on the network, where there is shooting from automatic machines of both types AK-12/15. Butt, handle - no comment, like nothing.
    Conclusion: I don’t know what exactly the Defense Ministry wants and what requirements it imposes on weapons, because the intermediate test results are not advertised. But it seems that the army wants a minimum of innovation at a low price. And the old AK-74M almost suits them. Why so much noise and screaming about new weapons, it is also not clear, maybe a cut of babos or something similar goes under the guise.

    Results. For a long time, information about the AK-103-3, AK-200, then about the AK-400 has flashed on the network. Now the AK-15 has been revealed to the world. Apparently, this is all the same sample with a minimum of changes. And the names - PR moves, it is necessary to somehow designate the next stage of "success". At the exhibition there really was an AK-103M2 or something like that, not the essence of the name. Yes, these are samples for 7,62x39. But the AK-12 under 5,45x39 differs only in caliber. So the new is the slightly forgotten old, even if the old one is only a couple of years old.
    There at the exhibition stood RPK-16. The difference from the AK-12 is only in the forend, butt and ... that's it. But an interesting point. Under RPK-16 they made a short barrel of 370 mm. If it is, it means it suits the military by the accuracy of the battle. So why not put it on the AK-12? It is unlikely that at 300 meters the accuracy of such a trunk is somehow different from the accuracy of 415 mm. And 300 meters is a practical aiming range from an automatic rifle with an open sight. In real life in battle, it drops to 150-200. For battle is not a shooting range. There are no targets in place. And everyone strives to hide, run, fall, and even, damn it, shoot back! Afghan clearly showed this, followed by Chechnya.

    I don’t know what will eventually be adopted. But I consider the rumors about the possible adoption of both AK-12 and AEK-971 to be nonsense. For the army and the state simply will not pull two samples, and they are not needed. Better bring one. Gossip that they say AEK is more nonsense for specialists too. Specialists choose a different caliber - 7,62. It was in Afghanistan, it is now.
    Something like this ...
    1. +1
      30 September 2016 09: 42
      Quote: erased


      I don’t know what will eventually be adopted. But I consider the rumors about the possible adoption of both AK-12 and AEK-971 to be nonsense. For the army and the state simply will not pull two samples, and they are not needed. Better bring one. Gossip that they say AEK is more nonsense for specialists too. Specialists choose a different caliber - 7,62. It was in Afghanistan, it is now.
      Something like this ...

      I wanted to ask if there was AEK at the exhibition? And what does he look like now taking into account the requirements of the military and how effective is he?
      1. +2
        30 September 2016 09: 48
        AEK did not see, maybe somewhere was. But if the AK-12 is too expensive for the army, then AEK is even less suitable. For rebuild everything! production under the new system, not much superior to the old, no one will. This will fly into a good amount. Very good.
        1. 0
          30 September 2016 11: 00
          Quote: erased
          AEK did not see, maybe somewhere was. But if the AK-12 is too expensive for the army, then AEK is even less suitable. For rebuild everything! production under the new system, not much superior to the old, no one will. This will fly into a good amount. Very good.

          If the ak-12 is expensive for rearmament, and the fact that it is not too much superior to the ak-74, isn’t it easier to customize the latter to the needs of the military? He will put a telescopic butt, the same bar for sights, a new fire switch, and voila, a modern stormtrooper. But I support AEK, I like this rifle.
    2. +3
      30 September 2016 09: 48
      Quote: erased
      But I consider the rumors about the possible adoption immediately and AK-12 and AEK-971 nonsense. For the army and the state simply will not pull two samples, and they are not needed.

      The army is now pulling three types of helicopters, not to mention a whole breakthrough of aircraft from the Su family. And nothing...
    3. +12
      30 September 2016 09: 49
      Quote: erased
      The army did not accept the AK-12 version of last year because of "the complexity of overproduction and increased financial costs." This is how they answered me. I did not understand what exactly the army did not pull in finance, but I accepted the answer.

      They lie.
      What can be the complexity of production in this tin stamping with huge tolerances and gaps, cheap plastic and low quality workmanship?
      As I wrote earlier, I am fully convinced of this, the history of the AK was supposed to end back in 1974, and then it was necessary to create a new machine in the 70s, and not take into service the AK-74.
      Thanks under the carpet game M.T. Kalashnikov, the Soviet and then the Russian Army, were left with an outdated machine gun in service. Weapons thought that differed from the line of Izhmash with Kalashnikov at the head, we can say, was destroyed in the bud. Therefore, we now have what (AK-74M AK-12) what we have.
      What nonsense are you writing about the conscript soldier who needs the AK-74M?
      A conscript soldier of the Russian Army must have and perfectly master the best machine gun in the world in order to confidently defeat the enemy on the field and not die.
      AK-74M - is not the best machine gun in the world and is not suitable for accurate shooting.
      1. 0
        30 September 2016 09: 52
        Where exactly do I write
        about a conscript soldier who needs enough AK-74M?
        ??
        1. +1
          30 September 2016 13: 09
          Quote: erased
          Where exactly do I write
          about a conscript soldier who needs enough AK-74M?
          ??

          About a conscript soldier this is not for you.
          If you took it personally - Sorry.
      2. +2
        30 September 2016 10: 02
        Quote: Skubudu
        What nonsense are you writing about the conscript soldier who needs the AK-74M?

        "Conscript soldier" is a very loose concept. If this is, for example, a pom. grenade launcher in the infantry - it is quite possible that the AK-74 is no longer suitable for him.
        But what if it’s charging from the ground with a self-propelled howitzer?
      3. 0
        6 February 2017 15: 35
        at 200m, from hand, to head, from an open sight, is that bad? you start talking or you need to train more.
    4. 0
      30 September 2016 13: 56
      Specialists choose another caliber - 7,62. It was in Afghanistan, it is now.


      I agree! 5.56 as well as 5.45 no longer meet modern challenges, and Afghanistan has proved this, there are attempts to introduce 6.5 Grendel. Special units are moving from the 5.56x45 to the more powerful 308 win (7.62x51) as (scar h, hk417) which has a better ballistic trajectory, better range and power that can penetrate modern body armor and armor helmets. Plus, there is the versatility and interchangeability of ammunition at the level of units between shooters with machine guns, sniper rifles and machine guns.
      1. +1
        30 September 2016 20: 36
        What a set of stamps, besides absolutely false.
      2. 0
        1 October 2016 09: 58
        Quote: maximka
        5.56 as well as 5.45 no longer meet modern challenges, and Afghanistan proved it

        Yes? And what has "proved Afghanistan" about the weapon on the 5,56 × 45 mm NATO cartridge?
        Quote: maximka
        there are attempts to introduce 6.5 Grendel

        There are no such attempts. And never will be.
        After all, the professionals are engaged in arming the armies, not "specialists from the forums."
        Although for special forces such weapons can be produced in small batches.
        Quote: maximka
        Special units are moving from 5.56x45 to a more powerful 308 win (7.62x51)

        Special Forces, this is not an army. They can have any weapon. Conventional army riflemen will never have automatic weapons on a rifle cartridge. Because it contradicts the laws of physics, anatomy and much more.
        1. 0
          12 October 2016 16: 07
          Quote: rjxtufh

          After all, the professionals are engaged in arming the armies, not "specialists from the forums."

          Well, yes, warehouse service professionals like Afanasyeva.
          if there were thousands of PCA in the warehouses, they would also be handed out to conscripts, like Mosin rifles. And that suits and inexpensively. In our army, almost all small arms are really outdated, and not only automatic weapons. There are claims to pistols, and to SVD, and to submachine guns and light machine guns.
          The question of manning an effective automatic weapon for urban combat conditions is still open. No need to hang noodles that Kalash is our everything.
          Kalash is not a bad weapon, but for the European field. City, desert, mountains - everything is "not so obvious". Previously, the Ak-47 was well suited for the jungle and forest in general, the 5.45 caliber has lost this advantage. Dofig problems! Pretending they are not there is not worth it.
          1. 0
            12 October 2016 16: 20
            Quote: yehat
            In our army, almost all small arms are really outdated, and not only automatic weapons. There are claims to pistols, and to SVD, and to submachine guns and light machine guns.

            O..escho one softer expert .. why are we outdated there, compared to some so beloved here ..western counterparts?
            Amer’s machine gun in caliber 12,7, how do we calculate what quality? In comparison with CORD or NSVS?
            Amer's M16 rifle, as we will compare, is thrown away by the amers, but in battle for some reason preferring "outdated AK", in business then ...
            Quote: yehat
            Kalash is not a bad weapon, but for the European field. City, desert, mountains - everything is "not so obvious"

            Firs of fire .. and it is in what sore imagination was born that AK is not needed in the city ?? In the mountains and the desert?
            And what is needed there — pishchal, musketon and halberd — everything is more convenient, isn't it?
            From the musketeer, how you fucking blows in the asshole, you’ll feel crazy about the enemy, but what a roar ... And the halberd on the forehead, and generally the buzz, I’m not a disgrace like a bayonet on an Amer plank ..
            Quote: yehat
            Previously, the Ak-47 was well suited for the jungle and the forest in general, caliber 5.45 lost this advantage.

            Yeah ... you need a Gauss rifle for arming. As I gave ... a clearing, I glanced in the meadow again, and for the third time, there won’t be any forest cockroaches.
            Poor you managed to fix the reputation rjxtufh
    5. +2
      30 September 2016 14: 09
      Quote: erased
      Gossip that they say AEK is more nonsense for specialists too. Specialists choose a different caliber - 7,62. It was in Afghanistan, it is now.

      AEK was originally developed for different calibers. AEK-973 is made in the version of 7.62 mm caliber having better accuracy than AKM. For specialists, this would not be a bad gift.
      1. 0
        30 September 2016 20: 43
        Quote: Grenader
        AEK-973 is made in the version of 7.62 mm caliber having better accuracy than AKM.

        How much better? In the 70s, an automatic machine with balanced automation chambered for 7,62x39 in accuracy was almost identical to AKM.
      2. 0
        1 October 2016 10: 01
        Quote: Grenader
        AEK-973 is made in the version of 7.62 mm caliber having better accuracy than AKM.

        Normal accuracy of automatic fire AKM made at the level of a submachine gun. About 100 m. How much better is the accuracy of the AEK-973? At 20m? At 50?
        Why would an army need such an "army weapon" if it needs at least 400 meters?
        1. 0
          3 November 2016 20: 51
          what do you need 400m ???
          Do you need a needle eye with 400m or do you need to get into a house from 400m?
          be specific! In fact, not a single army in the world is yet adequately equipped for shooting at 400m. The Americans are trying, releasing special versions of the Colt and "scout rifly", putting optics everywhere, but not everything is cloudless with them.
          However, many are moving in this direction and we need to keep up.
          If AEK is a step towards increasing accuracy, that’s good.
          It’s interesting to analyze the experience of using the G3 rifle and its clones,
          (it is considered relatively accurate) and draw the appropriate conclusions.
          1. 0
            3 November 2016 22: 32
            Quote: yehat
            what do you need 400m ???

            That’s what it means. That modern army combat begins at 450 m.
            Quote: yehat
            In fact, not a single army in the world has armament adequate for shooting at 400m.

            In fact, even the ancient M16A2 was imprisoned at a range of 450 m. And even more ancient M16A1, a little less. From this, it was replaced by M16A2.
    6. +2
      30 September 2016 20: 07
      Quote: erased
      Specialists choose another caliber - 7,62. It was in Afghanistan, it is now.


      Good.





      But the special with 7.62 ...
  17. 0
    30 September 2016 09: 25
    Nothing, a couple of years, the brains will bother each other and do the same with the auto industry, football and others like them.
    1. +1
      30 September 2016 10: 38
      In the sense - prosrut?
      1. 0
        30 September 2016 11: 54
        Or so, or they will invite some Italian, Dutch, German ... The map is great.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. +11
    30 September 2016 09: 38
    The author of the article is simply an offended official who was most likely to be retired or fired and demoted for his excessive inflexibility, inability and, most importantly, lack of desire to keep up with the rapidly changing world around us and new challenges! But the fact that the author has no idea what the weapon should be, writes some nonsense about picatinny bars and cutoffs, etc. !!! In the K concern, finally, they began to take into account the opinion of its end users and I emphasize that it was the professionals in practical shooting that began to be taken into account in the development of new products and the experience of special units, and not the opinion of fat-ass staff rats or, on the contrary, young recruits who were allowed to be tested until now new samples! I watched these videos, where an 18-year-old youngster is testing novelties and other products of the WARRIOR program under the watchful gaze of thick-cheeked engineers, although they even have no idea where the strong and weak hand are, they tear off a strong hand from the pistol grip, jerk off the bolt and reload it, suffer they wear a Kalash on one shoulder holding it by the strap so that it does not jump off))) and then give their expert opinion))) and after that some fat-ass official criticizing those who have real combat experience brings his own to our Army " G "and wants us to fight this))))) I served in the Foreign Legion for 19 years and the last 5 years as an ISTC instructor, and we even have a developed method of movement and manipulation of weapons in order to neutralize their jambs that were unfinished by French engineers during shooting ( a weak magazine and an extractor leading to a double supply of cartridges into the chamber, etc. NTs of such specialists as the guys from the Chechen ITCSF or Kirisenko from IPSC I will immediately tell the author that they do not need to prove anything to him, except for huge fire experience, they have already proved their own and won the highest world ratings both in international competitions of special operations forces and first places in practical shooting. By the way, to the author's note, "all sorts of fashionable grips" of the Kalash that he criticizes came into practical sports shooting precisely thanks to the veterans of the special operations forces who founded this discipline, which began to come to other combined-arms units.
    1. +1
      30 September 2016 09: 50
      Shooting and combat are far from the same thing. And another grip and movement.
      A veteran and specialist have one question - what is the fundamental difference between the training method of an athlete and the training of a soldier?
      1. +5
        30 September 2016 11: 48
        Stehr, the IPSC sports shooting you are talking about was founded by former American specialists who left for civilians who began to work privately in their private armies and train at their private shooting ranges somewhere in the beginning of the 90s, the success was such that even government departments began to send their specialists to train at these facilities and even give them work in military conflicts. And he became popular because the civilian market for the sale of weapons, ammunition, uniforms and methods of fire training in shooting clubs is very popular with incredible competition. By the way, Russia broke into second place after the United States in terms of the number of licensed practical shooters in the world. I won’t lie about the Russian Army, I don’t know, but what they saw on the video from the fire training center of the ITCSF Special Operations Forces in Chechnya (https://www.facebook.com/ITCSFRUSSIA/?fref=ts) they train on one-on-one as we are in the Foreign Legion using the ISTC technique or as the States call CQB / CQC. But it all comes down to the budget: one M193 (5.56) cartridge costs somewhere around 2Euro (we have a discount on 30% because we collect and sell the cartridges back to the supplier) and now consider a good weekly training course somewhere from 1000 to 1500 cartridges per person for a full day! And this is just the beginning of training! I look with annoyance that, unlike well-trained specialists in Russian special units, simple so-called regular combined arms units have simply terrifying fire training (constantly pulling the trigger, the barrels constantly look at each other, distort and reload with a strong hand, carry weapons like a handbag on one shoulder, twists and turns with the barrel in a horizontal position and this is only an individual fire preparation about collective shooting, and even in motion, so it's generally horrible! I would advise the Minister of Defense to prohibit the use and purchase of blank cartridges in the Army as soon as possible and to begin to intensively train all Russian units without exception using real military ammunition and conduct all training as close as possible to the military according to the already rolled-up technique of Russian special units! Here's what to put emphasis! And fat-assed officials and engineers should develop weapons literally at the forefront in the zone of military conflicts, in close contact with the military, and not at home somewhere about in an air-conditioned office! We in France forced the useless engineers from the DGA to come to Afghanistan, settle with us in the FOB and fix the day and night that shit ... that they delivered to us! And yet they later became convinced that they had invented G ... and it didn’t work properly in real combat conditions. According to this, the army began to purchase American body kits right on the spot and, most importantly, in emergency mode , drones, glocks, HK-416 and 417, Swedish uninhabited turrets for armored vehicles, etc.
        1. +2
          30 September 2016 13: 06
          Quote: maximka
          constantly finger on the trigger,

          It is immediately clear that the author is from a foreign legion.

          And fat-assed officials and engineers should develop weapons literally at the forefront in the zone of military conflicts, in close contact with the military, and not at home somewhere in an air-conditioned bureau!

          I will keep it in my heart.

          tear off a strong hand from the pistol grip masturbate her same shutter and she also reload,

          And that too.
          1. 0
            5 October 2016 15: 24
            bunta

            I have doubts about maximuki. I can not see anything. The fact that he tells confidently know 75% of the military.
        2. +2
          30 September 2016 14: 31
          Sir. More precisely, monsieur. Please contact me on you, as is customary in a civilized society. Moreover, you have such an experience of living in this very society.
          Further, I asked, if you wish, to answer one question, and not to give a lecture on the topic of who they think and how.
          I am of little interest in who and how is training in France, England, Papua New Guinea and Madagascar. You can immediately address your advice to the Ministry there, and not write about them here.
          The same goes for the place and method of developing weapon models.
          I also did not ask about the "trigger" on which everyone is holding their fingers, "strong" and "weak" hands. Although from experience we can say that reloading with the right or left hand does not differ much in time. And the reason for reloading the right one is completely different.
          So, once again, you, the gentleman of a foreign legion, can answer the question - what is the fundamental difference between the training of athletes and soldiers? You can use one phrase. Without spreading thought on the tree.
          1. 0
            30 September 2016 14: 59
            Monsieur Stehr, accept my sincere Sorry, I got carried away and forgot that I’m not in the living room! If you are talking about the fundamental difference between practical shooting athletes and operators in special military units, so starting with the safety of handling weapons and behavior at the shooting range - almost none! We often train with each other and often use and let us use our infrastructure. If you talk about the difference, as I understand it, from ordinary soldiers of regular troops, then the gap in fire training is huge as the Pacific Ocean! Everything rests on the budget and the desire of the state to invest a pretty penny in the training of each soldier (the number of shot cartridges, infrastructure, quality and method of fire training of instructors), etc. In short, sorry, I got carried away again, then I need to start with four rules for handling weapons: 1) Any weapon is considered loaded; 2) Never point and do not allow the barrel to point a weapon at something or someone that you do not want to destroy; 3) Never hold your finger on the trigger until your eye grabs the target through the aiming organs of your weapon; 4) Be confident in the correct choice of your goal. Something like this, I wanted briefly, but it turned out a lot)))) sorry)))
            1. +3
              30 September 2016 15: 30
              Monsieur. I do not know who the operators of special military units are and what they are doing. I did not mean the quality of the training of regular army soldiers. And even more so, I did not mean 4 rules. By the way, in the Russian Federation, as before in the USSR, that "little thing" that you press your finger on to fire a shot is called the "trigger". In France, apparently, this is called a "trigger".
              The essence of the different approach in training athletes (albeit "practitioners") and soldiers in the army is that tactical training always prevails among soldiers. Even during the KMB. They are taught to fight as part of a subunit (squad-company). Yes, they can teach you how to shoot or not bad. But a conscript soldier will never shoot better than a professional contract soldier, if only because he has much less time for training. And he learns not only to handle weapons.
              The athlete always acts as a loner. And all his training is strictly individual. All exercises in IPSI (or whatever it is in English) are designed for competitions. This is a good shooting school, but certainly not military, although some aspects probably coincide.
              That's all. The rest is an artistic whistle.
              For example, try a "hands-on" left hand grip on the forend on a combat weapon with open sights. It will be possible to shoot only into the sky or into the "milk" because the thumb will block the front sight.
              And optics of any type are far from always needed. And even more so, it is far from always suitable. Just because of the nature of the activity.
            2. +2
              1 October 2016 20: 48
              Maksimka, the first three rules listed by you were taught even at the lessons of non-military training in schools and technical schools, not to mention the army. And I think in the current RA the same rules. Just the Internet is full of different staged photos.
            3. 0
              12 October 2016 16: 18
              Sorry for the question, but I wonder how the left-handed people decide in the legion?
              what do they use? and do not relearn whether on the right hand?
              1. 0
                31 October 2016 16: 30
                The Legion still uses the ambidextrous FAMAS F1, which, by rearranging the extractor from right to left side with partial disassembly of the weapon, turns it into suitable for left-handed shooters (while the shells begin to fly out from the left side of the weapon), but the principle of operation is the same: a "strong hand" the handle is now left-handed for left-handed people, and all other work (fuse, reloading the bolt and replacing the magazine) is done by the "weak hand" ie. for left-handers it will be right
          2. 0
            1 October 2016 10: 08
            Quote: erased
            Sir. More precisely, monsieur.

            You can also call each other situaen, which means "citizen".
            Original and to the point.
          3. 0
            5 October 2016 15: 28
            erased

            What a gentleman he is. This is an airsoft student. All that he says is taught at airsoft. This lad never ran crosses with weapons. All sorts of tales tells what and how to do.

            When shooting, they use techniques that the body gets used to weapons. And this gentleman, tells about 1500 rounds of ammunition burned per week. Yes, and in one day I can burn them, but I will not teach to shoot. Rifle training takes time, and the number of rounds may not be significant.
      2. 0
        1 October 2016 10: 05
        Quote: erased
        Shooting and combat are far from the same thing. And another grip and movement.

        You can still consider the problem.
        The sporting weapon has the task to "hit" In the army, "kill". This is a very serious addition to the "hit" problem. And to provide this supplement often requires very serious measures. Transferring the task of "getting" into the background.
        1. 0
          1 October 2016 10: 10
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Transferring the task of "getting" into the background.

          Everything is exactly the opposite. The main task is to get there, everything else without a hit does not make sense. And the development of the 5,45 mm cartridge and the Flagok and Abakan contests pursued precisely this task - to get, or rather to increase the efficiency of shooting.
          1. 0
            1 October 2016 19: 50
            Quote: Droid
            The main task is to get there, everything else without a hit does not make sense.

            This task in the new generation weapons (on small pieces) is solved simply, the weapon has become automatic, so the target is hit not by one bullet, but by a series of bullets of which one, may it find the target. Therefore, the task of "getting" faded into the background.
            Quote: Droid
            And the development of the 5,45 mm cartridge and the Flagok and Abakan contests pursued precisely this task - to get there, or rather to increase the efficiency of shooting.

            I repeat once again, the effectiveness of shooting is a set of measures. And without solving the problem "kill" efficiency cannot be achieved.
            But AK has very big problems with this. Because this weapon is not army, but assault (weakened army).
        2. +1
          2 October 2016 12: 52
          Quote: rjxtufh
          The sporting weapon has the task of "hitting". In the army, "kill".
          As far as I know, the task of killing is posed to hunting weapons, to the army - to disable (to prevent further military resistance), to the law enforcement - to stop. And it’s still not clear why in quotation marks? Is it figuratively something to kill somehow?
          1. 0
            3 October 2016 07: 08
            Quote: Navigator Basov
            As far as I know, the task of killing is set for hunting weapons, for the army - to incapacitate (prevent further military resistance)

            And how can you more reliably "incapacitate (prevent further military resistance)" if not kill?
            Army weapons from hunting, in terms of ballistics, differ only in that the army is sharpened for "game" of a strictly defined size. There are no more differences.
            In terms of design and features of the operation of weapons, the differences between them are significant.
          2. 0
            5 October 2016 16: 20
            Navigator Basov

            Correctly. The main thing to get. Since a wounded adversary draws on additional resources wink
            1. 0
              5 October 2016 16: 37
              Quote: gladcu2
              Correctly. The main thing to get. Since a wounded adversary draws on additional resources

              Yeah. Have seen enough "cool war movie", and let's talk nonsense about it.
              A wounded enemy, if it is not a tough officer, does not pull exactly anyone.
        3. 0
          12 October 2016 16: 22
          Quote: rjxtufh

          The sporting weapon has the task of "hitting". In the army, "kill".

          and you are not mixed up? army weapons have the task of neutralizing, not killing
          getting into the leg is often even more beneficial than in the heart. I refer to the experience in the Second World War, Chechnya and Afghanistan.
    2. +2
      30 September 2016 15: 54
      Msieu Ster, you and I can argue endlessly and beat around the bush, we are basically talking about the same thing and in principle we have the same points of view, but we speak different languages! do not prejudge the words, we call the trigger "la detonte" or in English "trigger" but I did not want to appear too snobbish and wrote "trigger"))))) do not take it to heart)))) Yes, I forgot to say When you shoot a pistol holding it with your right hand, you do all the rest of the work with your left, such as changing the magazine, reloading the bolt, removing the safety lock ... and with a machine gun, machine gun, rifle we do the same, and for good reason! As long as you hold the weapon in a strong hand (with your right hand if you are right-handed), the weapon is always controlled by you as a weapon and not as an iron blank, and you can always shoot while your right hand rests on the pistol grip, and your left hand is reloading, gropes for a full magazine that you have secured in advance on the left side on your unloading, you can even safely open your fly and jerk off with your left hand while your right hand shoots from a machine gun, but this is already for the 38th level of pumping)))) You’re sorry, but we were taught this way and now we shoot like that, to argue with you further on this topic, I think it makes no sense to continue. Sign up for practical shooting, get a license, there are athletes in the clubs, both former and current operators of special forces, and they will always share their experience with you (why, and how, and why you need to do it this way). Health and Good Mood!
      1. +4
        30 September 2016 16: 01
        The conversation really needs to be stopped. Moreover, you switched to masturbation, and this is certainly not the topic. Recording somewhere in the plans is not included. But that is my business. Adieu.
    3. +3
      30 September 2016 17: 24
      At the expense of today's tactical training of ordinary soldiers on the ISTC system:

      -the theory of the ALPHA module starts from the beginning, it takes about 16-17 hours to study an assault rifle (safety study of the rules for handling weapons, familiarization with weapons and each weapon has its own separate module, a lot of different positions and grip depending on the changing tactical situation, correct and quick elimination of various jambs and other spells that occur with weapons, their causes, etc. As soon as the intern successfully passed the exam for the first module, we switch to the second!)

      -practice BRAVO module, 15 hours, somewhere 250-300 live ammunition per person, 25-300m distances (individual shooting: different positions, grabs, distances, turns, turns, etc.) no queues! all shooting is only solitary for speed and accuracy! The shooter in the exam is judged by his worst results and misses. Passing ball 16 / 20 those 80% hits! If passed, go to the next level!

      - CHARLIE module, individual shooting at distances from 1.5-15m at the lower and upper lethal zone for speed and result, (study with a fast two in the chest and one control in the head) 200 cartridges per person, 4 hours of training, and then an examination, passing minimum 16 / 20 or 80% of hits!

      - DELTA, 20 hours of classes and 600 cartridges per person. everything is the same only at night with an additional body kit using the Strobe Lamp, Laz IR or TERM devices and indicators, plus all training with the Chemist, body and breathe. ways.

      - ECHO! 13 hours and somewhere 1000-1500 cartridges per person. module only when the intern successfully passed all the previous modules! The tactics of battle and shooting in motion and in the group of two, three people and then in the top five and two fives te one opera group! One full day of training in different attack or exit configurations! Each of several times performs all the roles of the functions of all members of the group from the ordinary to the group boss! Exam

      - AZUR module, war in urban conditions! One full day

      All training is carried out only using real combat ammunition, with the exception of the theory in the first module, which uses inert ammunition for manipulation!

      All this is a simple program for tactical fire training of ordinary soldiers in the army, special forces are already added for special operations forces depending on the directions and tasks of the special forces: Shooting using Helicopters, high-speed boats, cars, etc. ...

      The entire training course for each type of weapon takes about 1 a week, if you add a gun and a light machine gun, then everything together with the courses on pedagogy will take only three full weeks. In just three weeks, with the necessary infrastructure, it’s possible to make a well-trained shooter from a person who has never shot in his life who can work with weapons both alone and in groups, day or night, in different tactical situations
      1. +6
        30 September 2016 21: 10
        . "In just three weeks, given the necessary infrastructure, it is possible to turn a person who has never shot in his life into a well-trained shooter" ////

        in three weeks - hardly ... remembering myself recourse
        We fired about three stores with single combat targets
        every day, 5 days a week, day and night for 3 months, including dashes, groups, crawls, rifts and all the garbage ... but I felt like a trained shooter
        only a year later, after several exercises, combing the terrain, patrols.
        1. 0
          2 October 2016 23: 13
          Quote: voyaka uh
          ...
          in three weeks - hardly ... remembering myself
          ...
          Warrior wow, I see, and you have reasonable arguments, otherwise I thought you were completely lost people ... laughing hi
        2. 0
          5 October 2016 16: 28
          voyaka uh

          Everything is correct. Mental preparation takes time.

          The usual course is knowledge of the rules. Over time, when several techniques that were taught during the course, remembering and successfully applying this is a skill. It takes time. That would come confidence.
        3. 0
          31 October 2016 17: 55
          voyaka uh, With the correctly developed method of instruction with sensible instructors, I assure you that if one instructor takes no more than 5 students for his experience, then in three weeks of intensive training with 7ч00-18ч00 with breaks for the weekend and every other day for night firing, we they trained well-trained shooters and even trained ISTC teachers with extra hours of pedagogy. It turned out somewhere in the 15-25 of thousands of rounds per person. It’s easiest to teach beginners or students who have studied using the ISTC methodology from the very beginning. Worst of all, these are old dinosaur warriors with the wrong parasitic gestures they have learned for years, they have to lose much more time to retrain and bring the correct gestures to automatism. Now those who traveled to Afghanistan, classified in France, unlike OPEX, as a zone of military conflict, for a six-month trip to Afghanistan, they needed to take about a ten-month training course (in addition to studying this theater of operations, shooting with individual weapons, shooting from a collective, intensive medical training for everyone, radio guidance from the ground for air and art attacks, etc.) According to the regulations that we have in the Legion, a full re-certification once a year for ordinary shooters and every five years for teachers and instructors ctorov.
        4. 0
          31 October 2016 19: 42
          If you have French-speaking Jews in Israel, they will help you to translate in detail the digitized instructor material on which I received a diploma from EAI Draguignan and with whom I later worked in the Legion. I am throwing you my account in Scribd where you can download all the pedagogical material ISTC / STAGE INSTRUCTEUR https://fr.scribd.com/user/201757064/figaroooo?ta
          b = collections
    4. 0
      4 October 2016 21: 36
      Heh, go schoolboy ..

      Mom called for you to eat ... Here adult uncles communicate ...
  20. +4
    30 September 2016 09: 41
    Hmm, .... More and more I am disappointed in the current course of power, where real efficiency has been replaced and continues to be replaced by money. For twenty-five years, they taught us how to calculate everything, we thought everything would be decided by money, but no, the indicator does not lead to efficiency, but to obesity and death ...
  21. 0
    30 September 2016 09: 47
    I would like to add to the "planks" - unfortunately, in most of the photos and videos from the exercises, they are empty sad Usually only the special forces kit is noticeable. It would be nice to increase the supply of sights and other body kit in the troops.
  22. +6
    30 September 2016 09: 49
    Become excellent, everything is correctly described. And so apparently in many areas, the experts were dispersed, Moscow managers were hired, sort of princes. These princes are pulling their boyars, creating a team of managers, locals who are resisting, trying to do something, kicked out or they leave themselves. That's it, the team is built, eyes are on fire, the husk is being mastered, on the way out - Oh !!!!! The government, the president, apparently satisfied with everything, ratings hoo. It would be necessary to raise taxes.
  23. +2
    30 September 2016 09: 49
    So outwardly it doesn’t look bad, though angular, ribbed smile , brutal. It would not be bad to "lick".
    Picatini, so the trend has now begun in the world, installation of all kinds of pribludy. For firing from the forearm there is a type of bed with an emphasis. Someone can use the handle or folding legs. Everything for comfort.
    In this version I like the telescopic butt, it is possible to regulate, for example, in winter, a pea jacket-bronik. You can also open the fur mitten, turn the fur outward, and onto the butt so that the cheek does not freeze if the balaclava is not wearing.
  24. +3
    30 September 2016 09: 56
    Quote: RussKamikadZE
    Why was this AK-12 needed at all? Why do the conscripts and half of the contractors, who can't shoot, need all these picatinny rails? What will they bet on them? The special forces already have their own for the tuned (for their own money!) AK, this AK-12 did not give up to them at all. It would be better if the money for the development of this "miracle" was spent on the purchase of tuning for parts of the SPN. And for the rest of the AK-74M is enough with the head.

    So can generally arm three-lines in FIG? To begin with, consider how much it costs to prepare even a "conscript". Are we going to fight one special forces? And the queen of the fields runs about with garbage, as they say and does not know how to shoot at all.
    1. +4
      30 September 2016 10: 44
      Do not distort, I talked about the fact that the AK-74M is for conscripts the most, they do not need picatinny rails from the word at all. Before rearming them with new weapons, they need to be trained in shooting. It is necessary to raise the level of shooting culture in society. And so they will die, but with AK-12 in their hands.
  25. +1
    30 September 2016 10: 00
    The point is that we need a new machine gun that will raise our small arms to a qualitatively new level and so that the industry can produce such products in series. AK-12 is no different from AK-74M, except for plastic ... Abakan is also a controversial design. For an ordinary machine gun, an ordinary soldier is too complicated a design. I am more impressed by the balanced automation system.
    1. +1
      30 September 2016 23: 00
      Zaurbek, what about a "qualitatively new level"? To automatically search for targets, aim and shoot? Or fired silently and without dispersion? Not the fact that all this is necessary for a mass army. In Syria or Afghanistan, do ALL barmaley need sniper rifles? Especially on the run, from building to building, when shooting from the stomach "towards" the enemy.
      1. 0
        1 October 2016 10: 24
        Quote: Zaurbek
        The point is that we need a new machine gun that will raise our small arms to a qualitatively new level and so that the industry can produce such products in series.

        Great statement. The case is small, to make automation for him. For the last (and for the first, too) time in this field in the USSR, a group of unnamed German specialists, working in Izhevsk, distinguished themselves. Better known under the general code name "Kalashnikov". Who will be this time? Where do you offer to recruit staff?
        And it is extremely desirable to change the cartridge, today's one was adapted to the "legendary mechanism" and from this it is extremely weak. Even at 5,56 × 45 mm NATO. Then isn't it easier to buy a license for something?
        1. +2
          1 October 2016 10: 27
          Quote: rjxtufh
          For the last (and for the first, too) time in this field in the USSR, a group of unnamed German specialists, working in Izhevsk, distinguished themselves. Better known under the general code name "Kalashnikov".

          Kalashnikov was made in Kovrov. Do not carry nonsense.
          1. 0
            1 October 2016 19: 42
            Quote: Droid
            Kalashnikov was made in Kovrov. Do not carry nonsense.

            Yeah. In Muhosk. Self-taught telephone operator.
          2. +1
            1 October 2016 20: 32
            AK-47 designer Alexander Zaitsev (Kovrov Mechanical Plant): "No, I haven't heard" - rjxtufh (C)
            1. 0
              1 October 2016 20: 38
              Quote: Operator
              Designer AK-47 Alexander Zaitsev (Kovrov Mechanical Plant)

              Yeah. Hare Alexandrov.
        2. +1
          1 October 2016 20: 53
          Have you rebelled again? Ah, the cons were canceled. AK is the BEST AUTOMATIC WORLD in the world according to the cost-effectiveness system and argue at least to the bottom. M-16 and derivatives AND WASN'T CLOSED NEAR.
  26. +4
    30 September 2016 10: 03
    Quote: erased
    An attempt to hold a weapon tightly in one's hands immediately showed that the left palm would not hold out angular faces for a long time. Inconveniently.

    To do this, there are rubber pads on the Picatinny rail (Vivera). Ease of retention, even compared with plastic, is significantly improved. Do not heat, do not freeze like plastic, do not slip. And if there are weaver slats on the forend, you need to put the front handle there. All minuses are removed, pluses appear. Moreover, there are very good, reliable folding handles, which increases comfort when carrying, transporting the machine.
    1. 0
      4 October 2016 21: 43
      Viking

      laughing what?

      Rubber inserts? This is what they came up with, which stuck the whole machine with straps? fool

      Why are these bars necessary at all? crying
  27. 0
    30 September 2016 10: 06
    The author suddenly wanted a super machine with incredible performance characteristics based on what’s unknown. As in the 00-x-40-x years developed a weapon - so it still goes with minor changes. All that is now being done is the well-repainted trunks of the PMV-WWII.
  28. +2
    30 September 2016 10: 10
    aek 971, here is a cool automt! but they could not promote him due to corruption and sheer admiration for Kalashnikov
    1. 0
      30 September 2016 16: 38
      While Kalashnikov was alive, he strangled competitors with all his might and pushed his machine gun, which was clearly already outdated. For more than half a century, you can’t use this model, it's time to do something new.
  29. +4
    30 September 2016 10: 14
    "The concern's statements about the mythical two-fold superiority of the AK-12 over the AK-74 are nothing more than a bluff."

    What a bluff! What about the price? The price of the Ak-12 is certainly twice as high as the price of the Ak-74!
    I thought about the bars since their appearance and I think that this is for sports or super-duper special forces. This crap will only interfere with the soldier.
    1. +5
      30 September 2016 10: 54
      Quote: uskrabut
      I thought about the bars since their appearance and I think that this is for sports or super-duper special forces. This crap will only interfere with the soldier.

      That is, you personally did not use anything from the above (bars that allow you to make a weapon with a modular, adjustable butt, front grip, collimator sight, etc.)? What is interesting for our soldier to interfere with all this? In the countries of the same Europe, modularity of weapons, with the possibility of individual adjustment (for themselves), for some reason, "their" soldiers does not interfere. Or you can even begin to tell that the wooden lining, forend and wooden non-folding stock are "our everything." Say, if our grandfathers were happy with everything, why should we change something?
      Well, at least they quickly abandoned the metal, frame stock in favor of plastic. since the thing is achrino not comfortable. What is closed, that when unfolded, clings to its frame for everything in a row, in the summer it is quite possible to get a burn from it, in the winter it’s an affectionate pleasure to lean against the frozen metal with your cheek.
  30. +5
    30 September 2016 10: 40
    I’m not an expert in this matter, therefore I can only operate with categories I believe I don’t believe, and so I personally believe the author by the way I work in one ridiculous federal company in an engineering position, and what is happening now can not be called horror because horror and the horror has already passed, there has remained a quiet cry from what these Defective Khlopmanezheners do, and with an absolute kind of reinforced concrete, peremptory self-righteousness with a very large admixture of rudeness, but this is not all these guys have wild animal hatred to professionals, so I somehow really believe the author. And an example of a design team that created the S-300 and is the forefathers of the S-400 and S-500 before our eyes. And the most interesting thing when communicating with people in other industries is to find out the same thing, and if you remove the ak-12, press it, and substitute the abbreviations of my company, someone of ours would think.
    1. avt
      +3
      30 September 2016 11: 02
      Quote: kapitan281271
      I am not an expert in this matter, therefore I can only operate with categories I believe I don’t believe, and so I personally believe the author

      Then you have to put a candle in silence, and not write a comment, but if it is unbearable, then confine yourself to something simple like Hallelujah, or is there an author, a hari author. Yes, and operate
      Quote: kapitan281271
      categories I do not believe

      man
      Quote: kapitan281271
      I myself work in one funny federal company in an engineering position

      wassat bully This is si-and-and-il! bully Your will, but somehow after that
      Quote: kapitan281271
      what is happening now in our country can not be called horror because horror and horror have already passed, there has remained a quiet cry from what these Defective Slam managers are doing, and with some absolute reinforced concrete, peremptory confidence that they are right with a very large admixture of rudeness, but this is still not all these guys have wild animal hatred of professionals,
      this moan
      It’s not very hard to believe in the professionalism of the approver, but more like the envy of the more successful described topmanagers. wassat
      1. +5
        30 September 2016 11: 20
        Normally, a person wrote, unlike you filthy troll, he also infuriates him all. And you sit on the couch and not a di ...... here !!!
        1. avt
          +3
          30 September 2016 11: 28
          Quote: Trigger-Happy
          Normally, a person wrote, unlike you filthy troll, he also infuriates him all. And you sit on the couch and not a di ...... here !!!

          Oh-oh-oh-oh! Yes, we have an individual appeared here - "I am writing to you mom on the armor of a burning tank" laughing He tapped on the clave so that the smoke went from the computer, and here he was sickly for the smell of the battlefield. laughing
          1. +1
            30 September 2016 19: 56
            Quote: avt
            ,, I am writing to you mamo on the armor of a burning tank "

            Oh! There were many variations here, for example - "on the boot of a murdered comrade" hi
          2. +2
            1 October 2016 21: 19
            Quote: avt
            Oh-oh-oh-oh! Yes, we have an individual appeared here - "I am writing to you mom on the armor of a burning tank"

            And what? He wrote a good hell of a heap. laughing ABT, recall how many times have you been called a nasty troll? recourse laughing
            1. 0
              6 February 2017 16: 02
              if the cons hadn’t been removed from the AVT rating, it would have been sad, and since it’s a troll, it’s also a troll, a lot of water and ridicule, and practically nothing about the case.
      2. +2
        30 September 2016 14: 58
        "funny company" is almost an exact quote from domestic cinema "Genius" Abdulov's hero to the investigator's question "where does so much copyright certificates come from" answers "I previously worked in one funny research institute so this is from there" I think the irony is clear, I didn't want to name the company, but believe it a backbone federal company and a very serious branch in which I have the honor to work as the head of one of the services, and about starting ....... it's too early for me to envy them, I'm much younger than these guys and with a career it will turn out or not, time will tell, until colleagues of my age and have not reached this, although, to be honest, I am not an ambitious person, and up to this point of your comment, I honestly did not think about what you wrote here. And as for whether to write to me or not, I should not indicate to you, actually, earlier on this resource, there was a very unfriendly attitude towards rudeness, apparently times are changing. I just agreed with the author that people who do not have a specialized education and work experience climb and, as it seems to them, they are reforming what they have no right to even touch upon examples in our long-suffering fatherland, a lot from E.G. to Serdyukov. The author writes that many specialists were dismissed, so we have the same specialists, the pride of the industry are quitting (by the way, they are not at all bad for the State, this is not ice), as a result, accidents are growing, quality is falling, unjustified expenses are growing. I hope that now you will understand what I mean above, all the best!
        1. avt
          0
          30 September 2016 16: 09
          Quote: kapitan281271
          As for writing to me or not not to tell you to me

          But do not distort. I’ve never stuck a mouth on anyone on the site and specifically didn’t indicate what and how to write to a personal address. ME, yes, and more than once they tried, but they broke off. About
          Quote: kapitan281271
          The author writes that many specialists were fired, so the same pride in our industry is being dismissed (by the way, they’re not doing so badly for the State, it’s not an ice) as a result, accidents are growing, quality is falling, and unjustified expenses are rising. I hope that now you will understand what I meant above, all the best!

          Then fire! Just carefully read the entire article, and not just what you selectively sunk after reading, and see for yourself what the author writes about, using emotions and as a touch a reference to non-professionalism. And again, similarly
          Quote: kapitan281271
          I hope that now you will understand what I meant above
          a question of BELIEVE and consideration of a specific design by an ENGINEER, and the author "exposes" a specific AK-12 assault rifle, things are not common and require at least some technical details about which this particular article says
          Analysis of all the features of the construction of "ak-12" will take a separate topic. Limited to small.
          That’s for me personally, even with
          The concern’s statements about the mythical double superiority of the AK-12 over the AK-74 are nothing more than a bluff. If you wish, you can more accurately calculate this "superiority" in specific numbers, as was the case with the cut-off. Obviously, there is no multiple superiority.
          wassat With the author’s wish, to have a desire and go somewhere to find something, is ABSOLUTELY not enough to take anything else on faith from the author.
          Quote: kapitan281271
          , all the best!

          And all the same to you.
          1. 0
            30 September 2016 16: 39
            therefore, at the very beginning I wrote that I am not special and cannot speak out about the technical and technological problems raised by the author, but the personnel question was raised in the article, so I expressed my opinion, and here it’s possible to talk about it (I must be baptized, I understand) this is believable to you or not because I’m not a court to give final decisions, I can believe it or not, I wrote that I believe and explained the reasons, but don’t you yourself see that our many, many problems are primarily connected with the incompetence of people taking solutions. I don’t impose my opinion, I’m only interested in yours, they talk a lot about corruption, but personally it seems to me from the crafty one, in our sworn partners of the Western supermen, in fact, corruption is just a state policy. Yes, domestic corruption is lower, but everything else, because we are actually suffocating from incompetence. The president calls Dvorkovich live and there’s nothing crazy, but imagine how many of these people are at low levels.
  31. +3
    30 September 2016 11: 04
    "Will raise our small arms to a qualitatively new level" ONLY a new, more effective cartridge and shooting system for it!
    But this is not yet within our power of our Defense Ministry. And the warehouses are filled with classics ...
    1. +2
      30 September 2016 11: 06
      At the moment, there is only meaning in evolutionary modernization and the upgrade of the existing ...
  32. +4
    30 September 2016 11: 37
    In general, the author did not say anything new, since the time of the article "Kuzyuk Izhmash"
    this topic has been raised repeatedly in this vein. I am personally familiar with Izhmashevtsy and I must admit that for more than 25 years the plant has been in crisis and each new team only deepened it. Kuzyuk - it was just a disaster. They dispersed people without looking at qualifications by deceit or simply threats. They said to entire units - write statements on your own and on hiring, we’re moving into a new structure, but they didn’t take anyone into a new one, so there are one or two. The team of temporary workers, lived in hotels - in suites, flew home on Thursday, returned on Monday, work week - 3 days, salary of the head of the human resources department - 200-300 tr (for hard workers 15 for happiness), left the prison only due to connections of the pope general and pregnancy. And technical thieves - even in terminology were confused. Their task was to bankrupt urgently, but they saw that money under the contracts before the fig and you can, if you want to earn money, stopped bankruptcy, but to earn money is to be able to, but they do not know how to: add and multiply it, and they they can only take and share.
  33. +2
    30 September 2016 11: 47
    the beginning of this weapon mess was laid by Mikhailo Timofeich. Towards the end of his life, he became extremely suspicious not only of his family, but also of his former colleagues (Nikonov)
  34. 0
    30 September 2016 11: 51
    There is no reason to hope for a customer from the Russian Defense Ministry. People are sitting there, oh, very far from reality. The point is that they can always hang noodles.
  35. +3
    30 September 2016 12: 06
    I suspect that the AK-47 or -74 assault rifle refers to unimprovable systems, because man is the link limiting the effectiveness of the "soldier-machine" complex. You can only increase the effectiveness of small arms by replacing an infantry soldier with a robot.
    There are no universal solutions. AK - weapons for mass armies, and all special forces, of course, can be armed with special small arms.
  36. +4
    30 September 2016 12: 12
    Interestingly, but no one thought that
    a) The AK-47 assault rifle has been developed since the year 1943 (Probably stupid designers were, after all the automation had already worked on both PPSh and SVT) and was adopted in 1949
    b) The AK-74 assault rifle has been developed since 1964 and was adopted by 1974 (again some kind of ridicule. There is an AK-47 with modifications, so what's the problem? tyap blunder and op ...)
    c) AK sample 12 is being developed since 2011. So what are the questions?
    We must not forget that the Defense Industry is still a conservative, plus that now you have to find funds and find compromises.

    What calluses he will rub with this, I think, no need to explain.

    Here, many have already said that there are overlays on Picantini. On the edge can be made from ordinary rubber.
    The distance from the eye to the rear sight of an open sight or collimator is uncritical.

    Maybe then you shouldn't aim at all? The author, did you know that everything in the weapon is exposed "for yourself." Sights in particular, and the distance from the eye to the rear sight greatly affect the target hit. And do not care an open / closed collimator or full optics.
    Cut-off for two cartridges.

    The simple question is - would you like it better if you got two bullets or one?
    About the rate of fire ... well, eprst - there are more rounds than there are in one store and you can’t shoot at least tear on the British flag. And the capacity is 30, 40 and 75.
    Continuing this topic - Mikhail Timofeevich and Co. did a brilliant thing for his time. The fuse is not just transferred to an extreme position alone. Made so that the fighter, being in a stressful situation (this is not on the couch), did not release the entire clip at a time.
    So, speaking of the duality / trinity of the shot per cycle (pressing the shutter). Being in a stressful situation and moving IMHO it is easier to fire two bullets that will move along approximately one trajectory per cycle rather than send them in two cycles (I repeat - the fighter moves, plus the arm is also not made of cast iron)
    Regarding manipulations - it all comes down to one sharp translation in a stressful environment. The rest is a readjustment on command in a relatively calm atmosphere.
    Lightweight bolt carrier, "recycled" gas outlet and other trifles, this is not something that can fundamentally change the tactical and technical characteristics of the weapon.

    I recommend to run with 4 kg and with 2 in outstretched arms - feel the difference and then return to this question if it arises

    All of the above is my subjective IMHO.
    P.S. Imagine in due time. The history of PPSh is the history of uselessness, Automatic is an unnecessary thing, SVT is an unnecessary spear ...
  37. +5
    30 September 2016 12: 36
    "There is no more wacky innovation in military small arms than the Picatinny rail" ////

    But how does the author intend to mount a night sight and a wide-focus optical scope on weapons?

    Oh yes ... we have planned daytime close battles of countless divisions with inexhaustible
    reserves of manpower. smile
    1. +3
      30 September 2016 12: 50
      Alexey, I always considered you the most sane of two all Jews present on the forum. I just don’t understand why to put wide-angle optics on the one hand, and on the other hand, namely on the left, the AK-74M has a standard side bracket for installing whatever you want.
      1. +1
        30 September 2016 13: 39
        It’s just that the domestic optics of the USSR model does not always meet the requirements. The state of industry is still awful. Here they are molding the bar for Western sights.
      2. 0
        30 September 2016 15: 53
        When installing optics on a dovetail bracket, there is a small problem - the butt stops folding.
      3. +1
        30 September 2016 20: 41
        With a 4x optical sight from M-4, you can hit a target at 250 m from one
        cartridge. Very comfortable, they say. I myself was a generation without optics, but already my eldest
        the son and his friends were telling. I'm not sure that the side bracket provides the necessary alignment with the barrel. Need shooting every time you replace
        sight type. With picattini, this is not required. The Tavor rifle generally has a barrel and
        bar sights made a single whole. They cannot be divided.
  38. +1
    30 September 2016 12: 55
    Sadly, all this is very sad. There are no leaders in the Kremlin either in a tunic or in retirement, which is a pity!
  39. +3
    30 September 2016 13: 17
    cheap ordering political games offended and scuffed from the trough
    It has an indirect relation to weapons - just an excuse to throw out bile :)
  40. 0
    30 September 2016 13: 33
    Yes, at least get rid of it, but you can’t jump beyond the framework of the gas engine concept. The concept itself is more than a hundred years old. AK-74 and G-3 Belgians are the pinnacle of arms thought. Everything else goes around these models anyway. Chewing snot on this is a waste of time. . The concept of war will change, and a new rifle will appear.
  41. +3
    30 September 2016 13: 38
    The best thing to do was:
    1. Change the trunks on AK74 90-2000 years of release - only this would increase the accuracy of firing a half times
    2. Put an adjustable butt, but not plastic, but a light steel frame
    3. Set the shutter lag (if not very difficult)
    4. Make an inexpensive kit with straps - but only as additional equipment (in a separate case)
    and it would be a very good machine
  42. +1
    30 September 2016 13: 50
    Quote: Andrey Kulikov aka bunta
    Ak-xnumx. The story of farce

    In my opinion, the name is extremely true.
    The old scheme of an assault (weakened army) self-loading rifle with the ability to conduct automatic fire (AU-47) to modern requirements, again, in my opinion, is impossible to adapt.
    Everything that could be squeezed out of it was squeezed in the form of an AK-74. And this is not enough for the army. Something must be at least level M16A1. And better, M16A2, of course. But with a 5,45x39 mm cartridge this is not real. Therefore, we must reach at least the level of M16A1, lengthening the barrel and replacing automation.
  43. +4
    30 September 2016 14: 21
    Tens of millions of AK-47s and AK-74s are gathering dust in the warehouses of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, since 2000, the US Army has switched to the standard ESAPI body armor that can withstand armor-piercing bullets of 7,62x54 mm caliber, and the assisted designers of the Kalashnikov concern are still finishing their marriage under the AK brand -12.
    1. +2
      30 September 2016 23: 16
      Bronik armor, even Yesapi, but God forbid you to be in the line of fire of the "defective" Kalash.
      1. 0
        1 October 2016 01: 17
        Do not tell tales - no one is going to refuse bulletproof vests.
  44. +1
    30 September 2016 14: 26
    Quote: ShadowCat
    The AK-47 assault rifle has been developed since the year 1943 (Probably stupid designers were, after all, automation has already worked on both PPSh and SVT) and was adopted by 1949

    yeah ... from the 43rd ... do not tell ... the design was obtained as a result of a complete re-arrangement of the machine that did not pass the first stage of selection in January 47! .. and it did not Kalashnikov but rabbits !!. read a story ... and if it weren’t for Kalashnikov’s personal acquaintance with the chairman of the commission, he wouldn’t see the new machine and the second stage of the competition ...
    1. 0
      30 September 2016 19: 03
      It started ...
      In 1943, during the war, SturmGever began to appear on the front, which actually replaced the machine gun compartment. In order to keep up and deprive the enemy of the advantage, the leadership of the Red Army gives the order to develop its own. So in 1944, the AS-44 appeared which did not go into production due to the death of the designer and dissatisfaction with the mass (~ 6kg!) Of weapons by the army team.
      Later, the workings were used by other designers, including M.T. Kalashnikov.
      Quote: mc1aren
      and it did not Kalashnikov and rabbits!

      I wrote - Mikhail Timofeevich with Co. Learn to read or score points. Learn to write according to the rules of the Russian language.
      And, if you push so hard, you can remember, for example, Deikin and Lyutogo who gave recommendations on the design.
      Oh yes, by the way, I recommend reading about how design teams and forms of payment were formed in those years.

      Quote: mc1aren
      and if not for the personal acquaintance of Kalashnikov with the chairman of the commission

      And if my grandmother had eggs ...
      But I wouldn’t see it - then I would push with SKS like the Yankees with their M1 carbine
      1. 0
        1 October 2016 20: 18
        Quote: ShadowCat
        In 1943, during the war, SturmGever began to appear on the front, which actually replaced the machine gun compartment.

        Bosh what.
        Sturmgever was a German self-loading. But since they were planning to arm the motorized infantry, this self-loading was given the function of a submachine gun. For this weakened the cartridge.
        Since this weapon was not drawn to full-fledged army self-loading, it was called an assault (i.e., weakened army) rifle. And thus, she could not replace anything in the infantry squad. If only because it was not intended for arming the infantry squad.
        Quote: ShadowCat
        To keep up and deprive the adversary of advantages

        What advantage could an adversary who armed his special units (panzergrenadiers) with such an ersatz could get?
        1. 0
          6 October 2016 04: 35
          Quote: rjxtufh
          Sturmgever was a German self-loading.

          You seem to have confused Hever 43 (Gewehr 43 or, later Karabiner 43) (which was licked with SVT) and is a self-loading rifle as you correctly noticed, and Sturmgever 44 (Sturmgewehr 44), which is the first machine gun.
          Quote: rjxtufh
          If only because it was not intended for arming the infantry squad.

          StG 44 entered service with selected parts of the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS
          Given the rather small (less than half the size) number of products released and its high cost, naturally it could not be for everyone.
          I think the Mosinka / SVT analogy is perfect here.

          Quote: rjxtufh
          What advantage could an adversary who armed his special units (panzergrenadiers) with such an ersatz could get?

          If you mean STG44, then they can shoot at a distance approximately equal to a rifle (600m) quite accurately, plus they had smaller dimensions than a rifle approaching the PP, plus high rate of fire, plus relatively low (machine gun) low weight (5kg versus 12kg).
          IMHO this is far from ersatz. Just imagine how it would be unpleasant to run into a regiment of the Red Army on a regiment of the Wehrmacht without exception armed with these machine guns.
          1. 0
            6 October 2016 09: 49
            Quote: ShadowCat
            who licked with SVT

            Germany, which had occupied Belgium under it, a recognized world leader in the design and manufacture of small arms, licked something from the failed SVT? You just make me laugh.
            Quote: ShadowCat
            and SturmGever 44 (Sturmgewehr 44), which is the first machine gun.

            No, I meant exactly MP43. She is a little later than StG44.
            Automatic, it is in accordance with GOST, anything shooting automatic fire. In addition to the machine gun. Therefore, it is advisable not to use such a term.
            What were the MP43 and StG44? Initially, these were submachine guns for pan-grenadiers (motorized rifles), in which the function of a weakened army (later called an assault) self-loading rifle was built-in. Those. 2 in one. Moreover, if in MP43 the PP function was positioned as the main one (this can be seen even from the name), then in StG44 everything was the other way around. And already as the main function was positioned weakened army (assault) self-loading rifle. And with such a rifle they armed not only panzergrenadiers (motorized rifles), but also infantry assault groups.
            Of course, such a weapon was not and was not planned as a replacement for the regular German Mauser. Ordinary German infantry was still armed with it.
            Quote: ShadowCat
            STG44 - the fact that they can shoot at a distance approximately equal to a rifle (600m) accurately enough

            They could not hit far enough. DEP was about 300 m. This is the "trick".
            Quote: ShadowCat
            plus relatively (machine gun) low weight (5kg versus 12kg).

            Compare StG44 with a machine gun and not at all kosher. StG44 was designed for firing automatic fire at a range of no further than 100m. Those. to the range of conventional PP. Further, he could shoot accurately with a single fire. With DEP, I repeat, about 300 m.
            Let me remind you that a fully-fledged self-loading army rifle DEP can not be less than 400m.
            Quote: ShadowCat
            IMHO this is far from ersatz.

            From which side to look. If from the point of view of PP, then not ersatz. And if from the point of view of a full-fledged army weapon, then 100% ersatz.
            The same applies to all Soviet funny crafts such as AK-47, AK and AKM. However, in the 70s, they did it in the USSR as well. And all these crafts were given away to "friends", having thrown them out of the army.
            Quote: ShadowCat
            Just imagine how it would be unpleasant to run into a regiment of the Red Army on a regiment of the Wehrmacht without exception armed with these machine guns.

            In principle, this could not be. Because the Germans had at least something in their heads, but it was. This was only possible in the SA. With her "strategists without higher education." And even then, only until the beginning of the 70s.
            1. +1
              6 October 2016 10: 04
              Regular masterpiece of mural grandeur, in the form of fantastic knowledge in shooting business?
              In the glorious city of Electrostal, Moscow region. (the former Zatishye station during the Second World War), at the same time metallurgical plant named after the People's Commissar E. Tevosyan one grandfather worked in his time, a hereditary metallurgist in the N-th generation, an honored order bearer, an honorary citizen, etc. etc. In general, a person with whom not only the director of the plant, but even the secretary of the city party committee, was always the first to say hello, asking for a long time about life ...: P
              In general, this grandfather knew, as usual, wildly many different entertaining stories, one of which concerned the Germans, our ShKAS and about whether it was easy to tear something apart from the other.
              Grandfather said that they say the Germans, well, they liked our ShKAS aviation machine gun to a daze :) Udet (their people's commissar for the military industry), so he generally just got hysterical and drank schnapps mercilessly :) and only because it didn't work out this ShKAS to tear at German factories.
              Allegedly, all meticulous German seems to be taken into account, and the necessary German analogs of the brand will be selected at the Thyssen and Krupp factories, everything will be repeated microns to microns, but the machine gun does not work. It seems that at first everything is going fine, the German twin, as expected, shows a terrible rate of fire, and then suddenly the crack cracked. One thing, then another.
              And in the meantime, the Russian ShKASik shoots and shoots everything and everything according to his dick, does not even think of breaking.
              In general, my grandfather told everyone present a terrible secret (which all Elektrostal already knew, probably :)) that it turns out that some springs in Russian ShKAS were made very intricately. And the material for these springs, a spring band with a wire, was just made in Lull.

              First, several special varieties of spring steel were brewed. Usually this smelting was entrusted to a single brigade at the plant, which was the best able to do it, metallurgists took into account even certain weather conditions on the street (temperature, humidity, cloudiness :)), opening specially the roof of the workshop wide open. Maybe the priests even baptized every such melt, my grandfather no longer remembered, for sure :) But, like, it was not so simple from the very beginning.
              Then the obtained castings, as usual, were forged and after a long cycle of hot drawing through the spinnerets, thin wires were gradually obtained from them.
              Further, factory craftswomen (only women were allowed to do this work) with the help of special equipment, braids were weaved from wire. Each pigtail, depending on the future purpose of the spring, had its own special weaving pattern: wires of different sets of steel grades were woven into it in a certain order, the number and diameter of wires in the "braid" was also different from time to time.
              Further, these pigtails were woven together into even larger pigtails, those into even larger ones, etc. until they received such a "wattle", as thick as an arm. Further, this wattle was heated in a furnace to a plastic state and forged in the forging shop to a single dense one, forming either a strip or a bar. And only then, already from the obtained workpiece, either a tape was rolled, for tape springs, or a wire was pulled, for wire springs, respectively.
              So steel was already sent to our weapons factories in this form, where they were already made into ordinary-looking, unremarkable springs.
              And the poor Germans, meanwhile, just got tired of it already that they just did not keep it, and everything breaks with them. It seems that the chemical composition is the same, and the x-ray and msicroscopic analysis of the domains have become the same, and the hardness after quenching and the spring is calibrated after zealing too. But no, a little machine gun will shoot and German steel will break, what will you do! : D
              The secret was clear in what. Roughly speaking, in the memory of the metal of the spring, when it was still the original pigtail made of different wires: P Of course, the equipment of that time could not detect such a small different-structural metal, which is why the Germans miscalculated with a copy of ShKAS.
              That was the story.
              I am not very inclined to believe all this, and treated this story with a certain skepticism. However, quite recently, in the magazine Mir Oruzhiya, I read that it turns out that in the 20s it was the Russians who were the first to use "braided" springs in automatic weapons. The pendsoos and the Germans followed suit in the late 30s.

              LEARN the materiel, the troll.
            2. +1
              6 October 2016 17: 30
              Quote: rjxtufh
              You just make me laugh.

              I’ll do it even funnier.
              G41During the first phase of Operation Barbarossa in 1941, the Germans in large quantities seized Tokarev’s self-loading rifle, along with many ammunition. She became the first truly self-loading rifle, appeared on the arsenal of German troops. German industry studied these weapons and developed a number of their own self-loading rifles
              G43Nevertheless, the Walter rifle proved to be somewhat more promising, and therefore it was modified in 1943 - the unsuccessful German exhaust system was replaced by a much more successful system borrowed from the Soviet SVT-40 Tokarev rifle.
              (c) All wikis
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Automatic, it is in accordance with GOST

              I don’t know what guest you are there
              An assault rifle, or automatic rifle [1], in foreign literature also has an assault rifle - a hand-held individual automatic firearm designed to destroy enemy manpower in close combat and capable of creating a high density of fire
              Submachine gun (PP) - an individual manual automatic small arms continuous fire, using a pistol cartridge for firing.
              At the same time, the military units of the Wehrmacht were not supplied as such with automatic weapons (neither PP nor Self-loading Carbines) (1.2 million MP38 / 40 units is simply ridiculous for military units many times this figure).
              Further, STG44 or MP43 hit 300 meters in burst and 600 single, of course k98 hit 1.5km, but here the mosquito did not mess. And the MP38 / 40 barely hit the burst at 100 meters.
              For the troops - of course, new and strongest weapons in conditions of shortage will be given to elitists (an example with our 90s). If the Wehrmacht had the opportunity to evaluate the battle distances, it would be happy to fill the troops with these weapons because it had a good rate of fire (a little less than a machine gun) and a firing range (again a little less), but it weighed half as much and was a little heavier than a k98 rifle!
              Quote: rjxtufh
              They could not hit far enough.

              Could not, but astounded. How are you me. where are the firewood from? I've taken mine from Wikipedia.
              Quote: rjxtufh
              StG44 was designed for firing automatic fire at a range of no further than 100m.

              can not be worth heresy flog? So you can agree that the rifle is a spear with the ability to shoot.
              Quote: rjxtufh
              The same applies to all Soviet funny crafts like AK-47, AK and AKM.

              These funny fakes well still carcass holes and do not even know what ersatz.
              Quote: rjxtufh
              Because the Germans had at least something in their heads, but they did. This was only possible in the CA.

              Thank. Rzhu aki horse
              a German soldier wrote home in the summer of 1941: “The Russians are fully armed with light machine guns” [
              “Her [Soviet infantry] armament is lower than German, with the exception of an automatic rifle.” Guderian.
              They wrote about SVT. It’s strange. It looked like it was in my head, but it did not look like the Soviets decided to arm the troops with such a thing.
              I am taking my leave for the sim.
            3. 0
              6 October 2016 18: 18
              Quote: ShadowCat
              I’ll do it even funnier.

              Quote: ShadowCat
              (c) All wikis

              I agree, they did not weakly. Because Belgians, world leaders in the development and production of small arms, which since 1940. were under the Germans, it seemed to them a little. Necessarily needed unsuccessful Soviet self-loading, as a role model.
              Lord, that’s why you don’t subtract it.
              Quote: ShadowCat
              I don’t know what guest you are there

              GOST 28653-90
              Quote: ShadowCat
              Then STG44 or MP43 hit 300 meters in line and 600
              solitary

              Where there and what they beat, I do not know. But automatically fire aimed them from 100m. And solitary, on standard 400. At the same time, they had 300 m of DEP. From this, there was an assault (that is, weakened army) rifle.
              Quote: ShadowCat
              Of course K98 hit 1.5km, but here the mosquito did not mess.

              So try somehow at your leisure without optics on an open sight to get somewhere with a single fire further than 400 m. You will only get it if it's a barn.
              Quote: ShadowCat
              The Wehrmacht would gladly fill troops with these weapons because it had a good rate of fire (slightly less than that of a machine gun) and a firing range

              What nonsense. I recently wrote somewhere about this in detail. Look in my profile for today. Laziness is repeated.
              Quote: ShadowCat
              Could not, but astounded.

              If they could not, then they didn’t amaze. Only if by chance in LIV. But this is roulette, so high-quality army weapons do not.
              Quote: ShadowCat
              can not be worth heresy flog?

              I have no such habit.
              Quote: ShadowCat
              These funny fakes well still carcass holes and do not even know that ersatz

              The important thing is that the army supplies know this. And such "army weapons" are not allowed into the army in the future. "
              And the little thing can "make holes in the carcass". But this does not mean at all that the weapon on it is army.
              Quote: ShadowCat
              Rzhu aki horse

              For complete happiness, chew another oat from the nursery.
              Quote: ShadowCat
              Guderian.

              Who the hell is that? Which could defeat everyone, but did Hitler put him?
              You would at least choose someone more impressive, or something. And it’s not a fact that even he said that. A lot of different "quotes" are crawling in Runet.
              Quote: ShadowCat
              the Soviets who decided to arm the troops with such a thing.

              They decided to decide. But they could not create a normal army self-loading rifle. One solution was not enough.
            4. 0
              10 October 2016 13: 54
              So still laugh - your vaunted belgium licked svt40 and handed over to the NATO block FN FAL. These are the geniuses of construction ...
              And about the insults - it’s better for you to close your mouth and trade frogs under the flag of the country you are covering up for. It’s just according to your knowledge ...
  45. SIT
    +1
    30 September 2016 14: 47
    It is necessary to stop it bred and cut under the name AK 12. All managers in the neck. Return specialists and load the plant with a modernization of 17 million. Kalash in warehouses. Telescopic butt, picatinny rail on the receiver at least, because the existing side bracket limits the choice of sights, the fuse is normal under the thumb of the right hand to the left of the control handle, the shutter lag. In short, the minimal set that makes the weapon modern. At the same time, re-control the quality and re-evaluate everything that is crooked and oblique. In parallel, the development of a new cartridge and, accordingly, a completely new weapon under it.
    1. 0
      30 September 2016 16: 14
      Lanka picatini on the receiver at least, because the existing side bracket limits the choice of sights
      Isn’t it easier to produce normal sights for the last. Tail?
      normal fuse under the thumb of the right hand to the left of the control handle, shutter lag. In short, the minimal set that makes the weapon modern.
      But what about the dirt that will fly into the open window of the shutter frame?)
    2. RRR
      +5
      30 September 2016 16: 56
      What fiery speeches!
      The entire page is splattered with snot and saliva. And which of you, "gentlemen-tovarischi" lovers of weapons, served in the army? Here's where to start!
      And now I will go through the ooh-sighs "commentators"Vyunoshi and Tjunoshi! Realize the following:

      1. The fire is conducted not by a machine gun, but by a fighter. As I was taught to handle weapons correctly from the age of 6, so I am in the army by order " Shoot in short bursts of 2-3 shots. Cease fire after hitting a target"I fired 2 times from AKM and both hit a growth target at 200m. So it turned out that out of 6 issued cartridges I spent 2, both in "10" (I could have beaten all 6, but pride didn’t allow it). So that 2-cartridge cut-off should be in the headin the subconscious. As the Americans say: if you didn’t hit 5 rounds, 20 will not be enough for you.
      2. You need to teach real gun shooting from high school and with all the rigor of the approach. Remember - before the Patriotic War there were so many circles in military disciplines!
      Again, my army example: I came to the part of the ABM and PKO Balkhash-9. And there laughing 3 rounds per soldier per year for shooting training. Well, to me something - I’ve been engaged in bullet shooting all my life. Only shoot AKM and then do not care - Germans, Americans, Chinese, Japanese. The result will be one - one patron, one enemy left. But in the company, you won’t believe it, the kid was shot at targets and fell into the hills 50-70 meters above the targets. So that if you don’t know how to shoot, if you want a machine gun to hang it better, it won’t work out.
      3. I used to think it was stupid to switch to 5,45mm and now I think the same way. I have seen enough of these militias in Lugansk. So they shoot without even pressing the machine gun to the shoulder. They also post "cool pictures" about it. Caliber 7,62 will not allow you to "freak out" as with a 5,45 fart. There will be minimum bruises. Where will the bullet fly? Yes, hell knows, but not at the target.
      So let "dusting tens of millions of AK-47"- the comment shows the depth of knowledge of the issue tovarischem ...
      4. About grenade launchers. Yes, the thing is necessary, but! To install a grenade launcher it is necessary to INCREASE the outer diameter of the barrel. Bending loads are obtained there oh what. And this is a weighting design. But it is necessary to do.
      5. About "soldiers of different caliber". If anyone watches the news on the net, he knows that there are 4000 pieces in Ukraine. 74s Vinnytsia plant "improved" to such an extent that the fastening of the modern Israeli butt falls off after shooting 2-3 horns !!! And this is on the "pukalka"!

      On the other hand, when I was engaged in bullet shooting, I had a personal rifle fitted for me. The coach strictly forbade me from even giving it to anyone in the arms (so as not to twist everything foolishly).
      What do we have with machines? Yes, on any stock you can put on a rubber "galoshe" of the required thickness and it will be much cheaper than making stocks of several standard sizes. And even a bolt with a nut in the butt for fixing it at the factory is installed. But what about the folding stock? Who uses them? Troopers, tankers and other nimble guys. So it is difficult for them to make 4-5 standard sizes of the flap? No, not difficult. And the ensign still stole and will steal ... they have such a position.
      6. On the improvement of weapons. You have already read my opinion about the primacy of the 7,62 caliber. And that you need to constantly improve weapons
      this and hemp self-propelled is clear:
      a) the design and technology available to bring to the ideal;
      b) in no hurry to develop new designs that are excellent in the principle of operation of automation and TOUGHT test them in the troops, because PRACTICE is the ONLY CRITERION OF THE CORRECTNESS OF ANY THEORY
      c) always remember that eggs always interfere with a bad dancer. This means that night sights, collimators, etc. are for special operations. But those who walk on them perfectly shoot without sights - at the sound, at the light, and simply "on a whim." It is not a weapon that shoots and kills, it is a person who shoots in the end.
      d) piccatini ..., piccatini ... not e. al, I don't know. There was no need, and hang the extra tsatski - only cling to them.
      7. The weapon must be MAXIMUM RELIABLE and well shot, and at what distance it depends on the upcoming tasks. AKM - RULEZ !!!

      Those. I consider all whining that I read on the page to be an excuse not to learn and learn how to shoot. This is such nonsense.
      I am taking my leave for the sim. Cats feed time.
      1. 0
        30 September 2016 20: 05
        Quote: RRR
        So the 2-cartridge cut-off should be in the head, in the subconscious.

        It is right! He himself was surprised when after a 35-year break he shot short - clearly 2 rounds each. hi
        1. 0
          2 October 2016 08: 19
          if you know the weapons firsthand, then shooting at least 2 at least 3 is not a problem, but are there all of these? After all, we still have not fired on conscripts, doctors, students, other civilian professions, but how are they? weapons in hand, for them the cutoff is done!
      2. 0
        2 October 2016 10: 48
        At the expense of calibers, I dare to notice (from my only hunting experience) from 5.45 that the unprepared shooters shoot much better than from 7.62. Of course, maybe it only seemed to me.
      3. 0
        12 October 2016 15: 18
        the problem arose precisely because it was unrealistic to learn how to shoot. let’s omit the reasons - the fact is that the ordinary soldier is often at the level of dibila. He can neither shoot nor count, and not everyone can speak Russian. I also know how to shoot - I didn’t take a rifle in my hands for 20 years, but from an unfamiliar biathlon from the first series of 3 shots - all in 10-ku. The point is not that someone can shoot, but that the majority will not fall even with a homing bullet.
        And they solve the problem in the form of ticking off how our government solves social problems.
  46. The comment was deleted.
  47. +3
    30 September 2016 16: 15
    What is the first cool photo)) is a typical top-manager of the American style in the best traditions of liberals. He knows nothing but to demand network graphics. I know one more of the same The main thing is that both hold the "product" very skillfully)))) So there is no machine gun ?? But you hold on there !! Good luck and health .....
  48. +3
    30 September 2016 16: 16
    Such an article should begin with the words ... I am shooting more than 10000 rounds from this weapon and I can say the following ... but I haven’t read it, but I condemn it.
    1. 0
      2 October 2016 11: 44
      The author read the cover. And the old airsoft player and tactical shooter player fully agree with him.
  49. +1
    30 September 2016 16: 23
    Moreover, this situation is tracing from many other defense enterprises ...
  50. 0
    30 September 2016 17: 16
    The trouble is that Field Marshal Taburetkin took control of the army, while Izhmash was commanded by their benches. IA Krylov said well about all these Stouretkins, Skameikins and other effective managers: "It’s a problem if a shoemaker bakes pies, and an assistant starts shaking his boots."
    Naturally a telescopic butt is more convenient than a simple
  51. 0
    30 September 2016 17: 24
    Ak-12, a-545 ... Dancing from the wrong stove. It is necessary to start creating a shooting complex with a cartridge. And in my personal opinion, today it most fully meets all the requirements of modern and promising ammunition - 6,5 * 39 Grendel. It is necessary to build new powder and cartridge factories. With new equipment and technologies. Whatever the diamond machine, you won’t get much with a crooked cartridge. And in fact there is a conversation about the adoption of the second and third machines. One has already been accepted and is being delivered to the relevant units. ADS. And all the talk for its cost is from the evil one. VSS was also once expensive, but now it is for everyone and sundry. And is it cheaper to maintain 3 or at least 2 rifle complexes? If you really want to cut the dough, scatter the production of ADS among different plants, depending on the configuration - for more mass production - simplified equipment, for specialists - for less production, and for a very small studio for production by individual standards for astronauts (Alpha, Vympel ). They need.
    1. +3
      1 October 2016 02: 32
      For a machine gun, a 6,8 SPC cartridge is better, because. its ballistics are well suited to weapons with a 416 mm barrel. The energy of the bullet when leaving the barrel exceeds 2500 J (at 500 m - over 800 J), and the recoil momentum is comparable to 7,62x39 mm. But even better was the Soviet experimental cartridge 6x49 mm with an initial bullet speed from the barrel of a sniper rifle of 1150 m / s. A 6 mm bullet with an energy of 3300 J would make it pointless to wear most body armor, and the weight of body armor would exceed all reasonable limits. Creating a replacement for the AK-74 must begin with a new cartridge.
  52. The comment was deleted.
  53. SIT
    +2
    30 September 2016 20: 21
    Quote: RRR
    What fiery speeches!
    The entire page is splattered with snot and saliva. And which of you, "gentlemen-tovarischi" lovers of weapons, served in the army? Here's where to start!
    And now I will go through the ooh-sighs "commentators"Vyunoshi and Tjunoshi! Realize the following:

    1. The fire is conducted not by a machine gun, but by a fighter. As I was taught to handle weapons correctly from the age of 6, so I am in the army by order " Shoot in short bursts of 2-3 shots. Cease fire after hitting a target"I shot 2 times from AKM and both hit a growth target at 200m..

    Uff ... At the beginning of your post, I really thought that you would write next - Duc I'm in Port Arthur from my three-line for 300 fathoms to the foe right between his narrow eyes, I fitted! And you're just talking about AKM. You know how it will be a shame when a newcomer just after boot camp for the bullet shooting master due to the same red dot sight with the same 200m (for the 5.56X45 cartridge this is the range of the "hunting" shot) will hit instantly while you are aiming at the rear sight combine because all he needs to memorize is a red dot on the target, push the descent. Have you had the opportunity to compare the wounds from 7.62X39 from your AKM and from 5,56X45 of our sworn partners? AKM sews a neat hole for the flight, and if the input is not in the forehead or other equally necessary places, then you can get it up without much hassle of the medical staff. The 5.56 has almost 1000m / s at the exit from the barrel. Therefore, when this is not a fucking bullet that hits you from 200m, it creates a hydraulic wave in the body. In short, along the wound channel 5-6 cm in diameter turns into jelly. At the same time, this bastard undresses - the core, because it tumbles in the body, with a decent piece of meat at the exit flies further, but the shirt is defragmented and remains in that jelly in hell knows what places. This joy can only bring a fan of the surgeon who loves non-standard tasks. So the bayonet is certainly great, but not every bullet is a fool. The world does not stand still. Especially in such a matter as the destruction of their own kind.
  54. Jan
    +2
    30 September 2016 20: 32
    I can’t say that I expected this, as the saying goes, hope dies last ... But it seemed something simpler - look at everything that people are improving, tyunenging and doing on an industrial level. Not everything is finite, but what makes sense! And here it’s just some kind of mockery! Such modernization is necessary / could be done in the nineties and not now! In general profonation and only !!
  55. 0
    30 September 2016 22: 25
    Quote: Viking
    About telescopic butts. Soldiers are known to be different

    Plus, you also need to take into account different clothes, it's one thing to throw off a machine gun on your shoulder in summer clothes, another thing in a down jacket (plus armor, unloading). But even a second delay can cost your life.
  56. 0
    1 October 2016 03: 43
    The AK-12 is not needed by the army, because. according to performance characteristics is at the level of AK-74M. The ergonomics of existing AKs can be significantly improved by replacing the stock and forearm, and accuracy can be slightly increased by using a new design DTK. The output is a legendary reliability machine with ergonomics at the level of modern designs. During the modernization, most of the shortcomings of the AK family are eliminated, except for an inconvenient fuse and the absence of a protection zone. It is much more reasonable to load the factory with the modernization of stock AK-74s than to put into production a model of weapons of the level of the 90s. A promising machine should have an AR-15 layout with an upper and lower receiver.
  57. 0
    1 October 2016 05: 16
    Quote: gladcu2
    The army is divided into hard workers and specialists. I'm talking about infantry. (Motorized riflemen or marines with paratroopers). Specialists are those who are at the forefront of the battle, leaders. The rest is the mass of average people.

    So in the army they give balanced mechanics to specialists. Because specialists have time to look after the machine. They are given this time because of their work. They do the hardest, but they also protect them like the apple of an eye.

    Hard workers, soldiers do not even have time to sleep, they have nothing at all. They carry the very brunt of the war. To them this balanced automation, death. Because there will be no time to clean it all from carbon deposits. Therefore, for them the AK-74 is the most

    What time is it, what is "cherished like the apple of an eye", what kind of nonsense about leaders at the forefront of the battle, about middle peasants, etc.? I am firmly convinced that you are confusing army special forces with a police officer. As for a balanced system, it is just the same for a poorly trained soldier and this is not about the complexity of the design. Almost any conscript, if he has no mental disabilities, can be trained to handle any machine gun in the world, unless the machine has microcircuits and high space technologies. Teaching shooting is another matter, here a balanced system complements the omissions in practice. And to all who are well trained, reliability is much more important.
  58. +2
    1 October 2016 06: 52
    I would like to wait for the AEK 970x automatic rifles in the army instead of this weak Kalash, but I can’t wait.
    sadness.
  59. +3
    1 October 2016 23: 08
    As someone who has shot a lot ... a lot. The main thing is reliability, everything else is pleasant, if only not to the detriment.
  60. 0
    2 October 2016 08: 13
    firstly, the picatinny rail is a good thing, if only because it is convenient and practical, and secondly, I think a tactical grip is also needed (at least when there is no grenade launcher), a photo where a colleague aims ----- with optics, such a grip can be good, but without optics? but with an open sight, a finger from above won’t hurt? but it’s a hindrance, and how, and if you hold it like in the top photo, then the grip is bad (not everyone’s fingers are long, for example, I have short ones). In general, I agree with the ak-12 better On the 74th, but of course not at times, and the author also forgot about the delay of the receiver, a very necessary trifle.
  61. +1
    2 October 2016 10: 08
    At the expense of the forend with a picatinny rail. On my "Saiga" I quickly changed the forend to the usual one. Changed with a friend, since these parts fit any Kalashnikovs. It's just very inconvenient to hold the forend with a bar. For half a year I never got used to it. And then, after a day's hikes in the woods, next time you think about "every 100g" (this is about the calimator sight) - aren't they superfluous? :-) Good skills will allow you not to carry unnecessary bells and whistles. In a war there will be something with a rode with a running hunt.
    Also (purely my opinion) I would return the butt bent to the bottom (as on the AKM). Well, on the "Saiga" at least for sure. To make it easier to aim, so that modern Kalashnikovs were more "applied". And then either the lower end of the butt is in the shoulder (there is an angle between the axis of the barrel and the stop point), or you strain from the under the brow.
  62. 0
    2 October 2016 10: 39
    Quote: Viking
    And if the butt also allows you to adjust the height, it's generally good.

    I think it will only make matters worse. Because there will be some distance between the axis of the barrel (the axis of application of the recoil force) and the butt stop point. The larger it is, the greater the moment of force will act. Because of it, accuracy will deteriorate.
  63. 0
    2 October 2016 11: 29
    My dream is to shoot from AEK at the range. Here is the machine. If the army again simplifies everything to the level of an ax, it will be sad. It's like good news. They want to get KIA RIO at the price of frets priors. No matter how. Is it possible to get an AK-12 for the price of an AK-74? In my rhetorical question. Everything will end with the fact that the Americans, through small improvements, will finish the M-16, and we will continue to sing the praises of the AK-47. Sadness... The military doesn't always make the best decisions. And those who accept personally will not fight on the battlefield. Sitting in an office, everything always seems simpler and easier, not like in a trench. The soldier will fight with what they give him. It remains only to hope that the Nabo will not soon use machine guns in large-scale wars where the price of a mistake will become obvious.
    1. 0
      2 October 2016 12: 46
      Quote: arslan23
      My dream is to shoot from AEK at the training ground. This is a machine.

      This machine was expelled from the competition back in 1986, as it does not meet the requirements.
      1. 0
        2 October 2016 14: 02
        Quote: Droid
        This machine was expelled from the competition back in 1986, as it does not meet the requirements.

        Nevertheless, at the "Warrior" competition, AEK won the AK-12 and they said that it would be included in this kit. But then the ears again pulled the AK-12, arranged for him some additional competitions, which he passed and the mantra went again: "AK is the best" ... ".
        1. 0
          2 October 2016 14: 15
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Nevertheless, in the "Warrior" competition, AEK won over AK-12

          AEK is not even worth replacing the AK74. The Soviet experts put a point on this issue, I doubt that in 30 years, something has changed significantly.
          1. 0
            2 October 2016 16: 33
            Quote: Droid
            AEK is not even worth replacing the AK74 with. The Soviet specialists put an end to this issue,

            What is this "point"?
            1. 0
              2 October 2016 17: 03
              Quote: Bad_gr
              What is this "point"?

              Competition Abakan.
            2. 0
              3 October 2016 13: 49
              Quote: Droid

              Quote: Bad_gr
              What is this "point"?
              Droid Yesterday, 17:03 ↑
              Competition Abakan.

              So after all, the competition "Abakan" was won by Nikonov's machine gun. It can be said that a "point" was put on the Kalashnikov assault rifle. In fact, dots.
  64. 0
    2 October 2016 11: 42
    The author writes very offended, because there is nothing but emotions in the narrative, and this is the method of our opponent. Worthless. It would be constructive to disassemble, without extremes about stupid innovations - there would be no price. And so, taking into account the discussion that has already taken place, it just looks like retrograde, and even grips, the racks went into action, which is good, you can suspect a stuffing like http://guns.allzip.org/topic/4/277962.html
  65. 0
    2 October 2016 13: 11
    Yes ... Whatever the article today, it pulls on a mat. capitalism, .
    1. +1
      2 October 2016 16: 59
      Quote: NordUral
      Whatever the article today, it pulls on the mat. capitalism, .

      What is capitalism to do with it? Capitalists do not sit idle smile
      American gunsmiths have introduced a new carbine 6.5 CS Carbine, using telescopic cartridges. This type of small arms has a high chance of replacing the famous M4A1 used by the US Army. The presentation of the new carbine took place as part of the Modern Day Marine weapons exhibition. The 6.5 CS Carbine was created by Textron Systems. It uses a 2014mm caliber telescopic cartridge developed in 6,5. His bullet is located inside a plastic sleeve and is recessed into the powder mixture. The new ammunition is much lighter than the 7,62-mm cartridge and at the same time has ballistic characteristics comparable to the latter. At the same time, if we draw an analogy with the 5,56 mm caliber, then the kinetic energy of the 6,5 mm bullet is 300% higher.
      The 6.5 CS Carbine weighs around 4kg and uses a 20-round magazine. The example shown is a prototype: the US Army is expected to test working 6.5 CS Carbine for the first time in 2017. Based on their results, a decision may be made on the purchase by the US armed forces of new models of small arms. 6.5 CS Carbine will be able to replace the famous M4A1 carbine, created on the basis of the M16A2 automatic rifle. However, the 6.5 CS Carbine still has a long way to go. It is assumed that in the course of them it will be possible, in particular, to reduce the mass of new items. The emergence of the new 6,5mm cartridge and the carbine designed for it should be considered in the context of the large-scale Lightweight Small Arms Technologies program launched by the US military in 2004. The goal of the program was the creation of a fundamentally new small arms, which differs from current models in greater compactness and lighter weight. It should be noted that in addition to telescopic cartridges, in the course of the program, caseless cartridges were also developed, which turned out to be 40% lighter than their traditional counterparts.
      1. 0
        2 October 2016 17: 02
        American gunsmiths introduced a new carbine 6.5 CS Carbine
      2. 0
        2 October 2016 17: 05
        Quote: Bayonet
        American gunsmiths introduced the new 6.5 CS Carbine carbine, using telescopic cartridges. This model of small arms has a high chance of replacing the famous M4A1 used by the US Army.

        Here's how to replace them, we will give them the Order of Merit to the Fatherland. Although it is not necessary, otherwise they will begin to suspect.
      3. 0
        2 October 2016 17: 26
        F firebox 6,5 CS Carbine - it does not penetrate ESAPI.
        1. 0
          2 October 2016 18: 27
          Quote: Operator
          F firebox 6,5 CS Carbine - it does not penetrate ESAPI.

          Well, of course, but the AK-12 breaks through! wassat
          "if we draw an analogy with the 5,56 mm caliber, then the kinetic energy of the 6,5 mm bullet is 300% more."
          1. 0
            2 October 2016 18: 30
            Quote: Bayonet
            "if we draw an analogy with the 5,56 mm caliber, then the kinetic energy of the 6,5 mm bullet is 300% more."

            Not by 300%, but by 100%, i.e. 2 times.
            1. 0
              2 October 2016 20: 18
              The authors of the Russian-language news even managed to confuse the name of the new carbine - 6,5 CT Carbine

          2. +1
            2 October 2016 19: 57
            And what does the AK-12 have to do with it, and all other products of domestic and foreign riflemen, with the exception of one single model - the SVK chambered for 6x49 mm (the only one that pierces ESAPI).

            Here under it (in the telescopic version) it is necessary to make a new assault rifle for the RA.
            1. +3
              2 October 2016 22: 13
              I fully agree that the development of the AK-12 is a waste of money and time. Under existing cartridges, it is impossible to create weapons with revolutionary characteristics, which means that it is necessary to continue work on the 6x49 mm cartridge and weapons for it.
      4. +1
        2 October 2016 22: 09
        But how did they ensure the centering of the bullet in the bore and obturation? The idea of ​​creating a caseless cartridge or a cartridge with a composite case is very tempting, but extremely technically difficult. This project will end on prototypes, repeating the fate of the German G-11 rifle. All existing intermediate cartridges are not capable of hitting a target in armored vests of protection class 5-6 at medium distances, therefore, the development of a new small-caliber cartridge with a muzzle energy of more than 2500 J is required.
        1. 0
          2 October 2016 22: 59
          To break through an ESAPI-class armor plate made of boron carbide, at least 3000 J and a specific load of a bullet with a diameter of not more than 6 mm with an armor-piercing core made of special steel are required.
          1. +2
            2 October 2016 23: 15
            Just a 6x49 mm cartridge fits. The bullet core can be made from WC, which will allow hitting even lightly armored vehicles at short distances.
          2. 0
            3 October 2016 06: 58
            Quote: Operator
            At least 3000 J is required to penetrate an ESAPI-class boron carbide armor plate

            And to defeat a soldier in a bulletproof vest, it is not required to break through the plate, from the word at all. So, hell put the AK74 on ESAPI.
  66. 0
    2 October 2016 20: 07
    Interesting article, but I would like to see the numbers.
    1. +2
      2 October 2016 22: 23
      And they are not! The AK-12 is significantly superior to the AK-74M only in the dreams of Krivoruchko and Kirisenko, but in reality it is a continuation of the extremely successful design of the 47 model, which is somewhat outdated today. Almost the same effect can be achieved by modernizing millions of Kalash. The AK-74 is an excellent weapon for a big war involving millions of soldiers, but the peacetime army needs a more advanced weapon that has the reliability of the AK and surpasses foreign counterparts.
      1. +1
        3 October 2016 02: 05
        Quote: mr.redpartizan
        but in fact it is a continuation of the extremely successful design of the 47 model

        What is the "extreme success of the design of 1947." for the army? AK-47, not an army weapon, but an assault one. Arming the ENTIRE army with assault weapons was the usual Soviet obscurantism.
        Quote: mr.redpartizan
        which is somewhat outdated today.

        Nifiga itself, a few. Let me remind you that the AK-47 was a self-loading weapon. And the option of the possibility of conducting effective automatic fire at a limited distance of 100 m was only built into it.
        It was outdated in the late 60s, early 70s. When it was necessary to adopt a full-fledged individual automatic weapon. But then they could not refuse the "legendary mechanism". As a result, the AK-74 was adopted. This weapon is also not army, but assault. Only not self-loading, but automatic. And the army needs automatic army weapons.
        Here is the topic. But, in vain. You can't see luck on the 5,45x39 mm cartridge, it's too weak. Unless you can slightly lengthen the barrel and slightly increase the initial speed of the bullet. But it will be a half measure. For a qualitative solution of the issue, you will have to change the cartridge. Possibly 5,56x45mm NATO. I don't think it will happen, it's too expensive. Therefore, let's wait for a new Russian army automatic weapon on a 5,45x39 mm cartridge with an elongated barrel. And since the "legendary mechanism" most likely will not be able to balance such a recoil impulse, then the weapon will, again, presumably, not be based on the "legendary mechanism".
        1. 0
          15 July 2017 23: 29
          If we change the cartridge, then only for a larger caliber, the costs are the same.
  67. 0
    2 October 2016 23: 51
    rushed to break the spears. yes skinte in Syria, our Indians 1000 pcs 3-4 potential samples. in half a year what they ask for, let them out. in a year there will be one or 2. simply and reliably.
  68. 0
    3 October 2016 14: 15
    it’s already creepy, how exciting, but there are many but, including sports and war, as they say, they are different weight categories with different goals and objectives, but about Marshal Ustinov, this is in the very hole, the symbiosis of the Moscow Region and the manufacturer from the defense industry should definitely be present, and ideas should come from those who really fight ...
  69. 0
    3 October 2016 18: 09
    Of the two hundred recipes for happiness for the article, for some reason, no one remembered that it was necessary to tighten up the production of ammunition. A high-quality gross cartridge is both accuracy and accuracy of fire. As for the machine, the answer was given back in the 80s. I have no doubt that the Union would have been alive, the AK would have been replaced with a Nikonov assault rifle. But without a directive system, only the power of marketing remained. Generals, on the other hand, think in clichés, while officers and ensigns are too lazy to train conscripts. Without training and a systematic approach, of course, NA will seem too complicated, although the army is full of toys and more difficult.
    1. 0
      15 July 2017 23: 27
      Nikonov assault rifle is not worse than M16, but in reliability it is far from AK
  70. +3
    4 October 2016 03: 10
    I, too, "did not seem" this "remake", even purely outwardly - all kind of "rastsyatskovany" and ridiculous. Old wine in "new furs" - is it conceptually the same half-century AKM?
    The declared "lightweight bolt carrier" makes me think about the reduced reliability of the system, since in numerous interviews MichTim emphasized that it is the mass of the bolt carrier that is one of the guarantees of the reliable operation of the "automatic machine" and that all attempts at relief (after all, for every gram of weight saved was paid premium!) frames led to delays in shooting ... and now again on the same 'rake'?
    Surprisingly, the number of "tzatsek" hung by the designers - the soldier will carry all this on himself, therefore, the less weight, the easier it is for the soldier in all respects! Weapons and ammunition should be "streamlined" and easy to use, not clinging and collecting dirt.
    And it seems that the "new Kalashnikov" uses Dragunov's scheme of locking on three lugs?
    So maybe the "Kalashnikovs" and need to return to the fundamentals, turn to the reasons for choosing the gas outlet automation scheme, it's no secret that the early domestic attempts to create an "auto-rifle" based on the barrel rollback were hampered by the excessive power of the cartridge, but now the cartridge used is low-impulse, which means and there is no need for a complex and "dirty" gas outlet scheme ...? The bullpup scheme will allow you to reduce the longitudinal and transverse dimensions, the sleeve lead forward and the absence of a gas outlet - to make the receiver completely closed (getting rid of bullpup gases in the face), and the rifle adapted for the right and left hand. In addition, the use of a light metal tire, as the basis of the design, will allow you to create any configurations of a hinged plastic stock .. Such a modular rifle can be manufactured at any more or less adapted enterprise in the jungle and pampas, centrally providing production with rifled barrels of the required caliber.
  71. +1
    5 October 2016 06: 55
    whoa! I argued somehow in the comment! that the good old ak will serve in the army for more than one decade! and God bless us peacefully!
  72. 0
    6 October 2016 22: 26
    Quote: avt
    laughing Palm muscles are cool! laughing The main thing is scientific, straight into the thesis.


    What's wrong with the muscles of the palm? yes, there are muscles in the palm of your hand, look at the structure of the hand in the anatomical atlas and they are under tension.
  73. 0
    6 October 2016 22: 54
    The whole question is a priority: if the army is professional, then the weapon must also be professional, almost piecemeal. If the reserve, the reserve, the rear - do it to just shoot, tk. survivability of such soldiers in war conditions is minimal.
  74. 0
    9 October 2016 17: 22
    gladcu2,
    At the zenith, everything is thought out as a rule and reliably. Punching is for lightness and rigidity.
  75. 0
    12 October 2016 15: 08
    I wonder why the author talks so casually about the lack of advantages for AEK?
    after all, there is a completely new system of balancers, good or bad, but it must somehow show itself!
    but not a word about it.
  76. 0
    12 October 2016 16: 26
    Quote: yehat
    and you are not mixed up? army weapons have the task of neutralizing, not killing
    a hit in the leg is often even more useful than a hit in the heart.

    Well, of course ... a wounded enemy in the leg, lost the opportunity to shoot? Yes, you read such experts ...
    The task of army weapons is guaranteed to inflict unacceptable damage to the enemy, which means KILLing an enemy soldier, THE OBJECTIVE of police weapons = to stop, inflict injury, if necessary, inflict mortal defeat.
  77. +2
    18 October 2016 00: 21
    I'm tired of reading "expert" texts. I consider myself a professional military man, albeit in reserve. 20 years of service, and all with personnel ran around the training grounds, jumped with a parachute and shot at the very worst. But this is so, by the way. I read - and I wonder: did some just come to chat?
    1. Grip. With the thumb of the left hand on the forearm, it is good only if there is an optical or collimator sight. At one time, we put a sight from an RPG-7 on a dovetail, and shot at 300 meters. They were young, 22-24 years old. And yet they played "football" with a tin can, driving it with bullets around the shooting range. At an open sight, such a grip is nonsense. Nifiga is not visible fly.
    2. Handle. There's a bunch of wise guys standing up for her. Hello! When shooting from the knee and lying down, she will twist your entire arm. Has anyone here tried shooting? Somehow, at a joint exercise of the Warsaw Pact countries, I tried to shoot from a "Romanian" from 3 positions. Still in shock. The Romanians won when they came up with this "smart" stray. Well, yes, well, yes ... They are such smart Romanians, genetic gunsmiths ... Someone tried to shoot on the move (3rd A exercise) holding the handle? Get tired of walking, and cartridges to the wind. Support for the forend allows you to more accurately hold the weapon on the target, the barrel does not jump like that. Only STANDING, only STILL. Then oh, you need it.
    3. Cutoff. He taught the fighters for more than one year a simple technique: the score "twenty-two" - and here is the turn of 2 ... 3 rounds. A few days of practice - it is already sitting in the subcortex. True, later the Afghan experience showed that 5 rounds in line are what is needed to guarantee the destruction of the target.
    4. Did any of the "experts" try to shoot in the face of enemy fire? Oh no? Then why do we write? So that there are letters? When adrenaline shakes and sweat flows from under the armor in a stream - right now it’s straight: we hold our breath and smoothly pull the trigger. All as taught. On the exhale. Yes. And fsyo we will succeed. This is necessary when conducting a positional war, in the presence of a neutral, equipped positions, and so on. Experienced marksman and sniper. The practice of recent conflicts shows that fire interaction occurs at distances of 300 meters and closer (middle lane), and only in mountainous areas does this distance reach 500 meters, because. the chances of defeating the enemy leading active maneuvering and counteraction are rapidly rolling to zero. The main thing here is to clearly keep the direction to the target, and while firing, either cause physical harm to the adversary, or force him to stop moving towards the defense (if you mean defense) or prevent him from raising his head from behind cover (if on the offensive). On the other hand, there are also people. At this point, who has more tyama, and who has been dragged to greater automatism to a reflexive state.
    At first they taught the correct actions to automatism, and then they trained them, transferring a bunch of ammunition.
    If we return to the article, the author is largely right. Almost everything. My opinion: a motorized infantry infantryman (namely, conscript Vanya / Vasya / Rustam) needs a retrofit kit for a collimator sight, and an adjustable butt. Learn to aim, shoot and train correctly in a few months. He will survive the first battle - then he will become an ace, for sure. The "telescope" butt is also a question ... I don't know how such a butt will behave in hand-to-hand combat. The third complex of hand-to-hand combat (with weapons) has not been canceled by anyone. Let's see what the sovereign's people will say, but so far the decision about AEK (give it to the special forces) - I can understand. It is they who need the most modern machines for killing (Abakan was given to them now AEK just right). They are piece goods, and they need weapons for their training and their tasks. You don't need an AK-12.
    1. 0
      15 July 2017 23: 25
      “Your words, by God’s ears”! - but who would pay attention to them, for example, didn’t know why the butt was wrapped with a plait, until he got into battle and there were many such “trifles” on which life depended.
  78. 0
    21 October 2016 23: 39
    Why is everyone talking that the AK-12 is just a glamorous AK-74m with a picattini and a butt. Even on the shooting video it is noticeable that they did at least a good job of balancing and recoil compensation. According to the result of behavior, it is not worse than AEK (even in the absence of balanced automation).
    You can look at the video, in the same place about improvements.

    Plus, the infa of the author of the article is a little outdated - after the comments of the first tests, the sight was replaced, it is adjustable on the cover, you can choose a diopter or a slotted one, the forearm was finalized, and so on.
    And do not forget about the price, which is very important for a mass machine, it is unlikely that it is much more expensive than the AK74, since the technologies have long been stamped and ready for the "stream". A balanced AK for Izhmash is also not new, since the 107th series.
    In general, both the AK-12, and the A545, and the AEK should be taken into the series. Infantry units are easier, specialists are more difficult.
    1. 0
      27 October 2016 18: 39
      AEK in this context makes sense to take. but the AK-12 is not. here's the catch. those who are as simple as 74 can use - they are simply heaps of. the question is what. in expediency.
    2. 0
      10 February 2017 16: 25
      So this is also the AK-12, the last "simplified" version that was shown was the AK-74. They even put on camouflage so that it would not be so noticeable.
  79. 0
    26 October 2016 17: 21
    the "field fighter's hand" can only hold the forend like this with a diopter. If the author does not understand this, then trust in everything else is somehow lost / does not arise
  80. 0
    27 October 2016 18: 35
    AK is not going anywhere, but it must be officially recognized, the near future is AEK. that's all the solution for now.
  81. 0
    14 December 2016 17: 26
    This is not it! We need a modern machine gun that can shoot forward and backward. With automatic barrel rotation, self-changing magazines, with a choice. At 33 and 45 rpm. Above the machine gun, a survey device that looks for enemies by DNA and accurately shoots it. No, the soldier has the right to interfere with the operation of the machine. There should be such a thing on the side that would allow the soldier to set the angle of rotation of the barrel in the horizontal plane in degrees and in the vertical plane up to 90 degrees in order to shoot at the aircraft. It is necessary that he himself choose from which store to shoot, with armor-piercing bullets, or at the carcasses of animals. In addition, during non-combat operations, let him release screws or rivets for jeans. Particularly marked can release cartridges. Those that have 100 enemies on their account, three tanks, or one aircraft of the F-35 type. The machine gun also needs to be rewarded as a leader in military slaughter. It is also possible that he had a radio, DVD and other devices, so that during his rest he would have something for an automatic soul.
  82. 0
    22 December 2016 10: 36
    Article - emotions! There are no specific performance characteristics figures, no comparison tables with similar products (competitors).
    In addition, we must remember that marketing and profit in our time - everything. Factories need to make money. For some reason, no one asks questions, but why the heck buy some Samsung Galaxy S7, instead of the 6th. Because the body kit is better) As for practicality, I partially agree with some of the reviews here, you don’t need to stamp new (old) AK-12,15 ... but upgrade those 74M, AKM, AKMS ... which hundreds of thousands lie on warehouses, replace butts there, can make lightweight magazines, change the forearm to a decent polymer. As for the Picatinny rail, I don’t quite agree, AK is a massive assault rifle and some kind of Celsus, Leupold, or even a banal Aimpoint collimator costs, almost like the whole AK. In addition, the same "Cobra" is not much worse, although it is in abundance in warehouses, the only drawback of the side mount is disassembly and cleaning, you have to remove the sights. Although - the mechanics of forev, especially in the "field", where there is mud or crawling on the belly, you can knock down the collimator, get dirty and the shooting accuracy will only get worse. And for amateurs (the rich), or extreme sportsmen, you can put on receiver covers with a Picatinny rail for replacement. You want - put.
  83. 0
    7 February 2017 12: 28
    I read the comments. There are only Musketeers gathered here. I will speak out too. The main idea of ​​the article is that over many years of work, instead of a blaster spewing death rays, a modernized ak 74 was issued to the mountain. It was noted here that thousands of firms and firms around the world are engaged in such modernization. I watched a program about an American company that made a sniper rifle out of ak. I want to add that the factories that produce AK, most likely, have a large amount of special Soviet-made equipment. It is very expensive to replace it now and there are no designers and normal managers too.
  84. 0
    9 February 2017 16: 38
    Excuse me, but who is the specialist Andrey Kulikov? And he puts it so beautifully, well, just a specialist, but in fact, excuse me, eared sucker, he thinks that all the same, dear, forgive me, but you are not quite right, at the moment, there is a choice between 4+ and 4++ i.e. good and the best, but the best is the enemy of the good, if you understand, I'm glad.
  85. Bat
    0
    11 February 2017 16: 53
    What the author wanted to convey to us, I still did not understand.
  86. +1
    21 February 2017 13: 38
    That's for sure! AK-12 is just a well-tuned AK-74 .... Nothing more ... drinks
  87. +1
    23 February 2017 10: 51
    The question is moot. There is no truth, there is opinion.
    I am convinced that in combat conditions, it is better to have the habit and skill to use weapons in the basic version + grenade launcher. Without additional body kit. It is better to add more ammo or a grenade. I am sincerely convinced that our quick-detachable, side mount is more convenient, and I absolutely do not care where the bullet fired by me hits, the main thing is that it hits. And try to use hinged systems when you are pressed into three trunks and there is no spare position. And try to make your way along the trench half-filled with fragments of brick, concrete, stone, trimmings of reinforcement, liquid and cold mud and poured with rain, when the heart figurates in the heels, and the swearing is wedged on - mother - mother - mother, while carefully protecting everything that he himself I hung it on my machine.
    Of course, there are tasks and places where it is really necessary. Everything must be consumed in the right place and at the right time. And then it's a question for the experts.
  88. 0
    April 3 2017 01: 10
    Hello everyone. I'm not an old airsoft player))). But the old lefty. Please tell the local gurus - when will they start producing weapons for left-handers in Russia? It is massively in percentage terms, of course. And I don’t need it here about - "learn to use what is." At games and trainings, it is I who controls the right flank. PATAMU SHTA - ergonomics takes its toll. I'm just more comfortable. And the commander of our team (combat officer, by the way) understands and uses this.
    1. 0
      15 July 2017 23: 08
      Please explain, what is the difference in using AK left-handed or right-handed? A little training is enough and it will be a fig to pull the shutter with your hand!
  89. 0
    15 July 2017 23: 05
    What has really changed for AK? Complex: barrel, cartridge, system have not changed, i.e. The performance characteristics remain the same, but the gilding and bells and whistles will not change them. Yes, the butt became more convenient, they used a collimator, changed the fuse, but this did not increase the accuracy, did not reduce the recoil, that is, there was another modernization - the weapon became better and worse, military tests will show
  90. 0
    16 August 2021 22: 57
    Yes, it's ridiculous to read today in 2021 this frank, not far-sighted nonsense of the author. And some of the commentators are just goofs. And the AK-12 turned out to be just great.
  91. 0
    19 August 2022 00: 12
    In fact, the same AK12 is in service with the Russian army
  92. 0
    24 December 2022 21: 25
    AK-12 and other types of automatic small arms, based on reloading by removing part of the powder gases, have long been yesterday. The army needs a completely new weapon for a caseless shot with perfect, simplified automation by an order of magnitude, facilitating the total mass of combat automatic weapons. The weapon will be reloaded not by a reciprocating spring and a piston with a gas outlet tube, but by the vacuum formed in the bore or a technical vacuum. Packs of ready-made caseless shots of factory production, equipped in a sealed package of 40-50 pcs. in each, they allow you to immediately equip the magazine of a caseless machine gun. The pioneer patent, which will entail all the above technical solutions, is known to all the State Duma and the chief designers of our arms factories. They received evasive answers. Kalashnikov, as if, modeled something and conducted an experiment, but the results are not obvious. They refer to the lack of funding and to the fact that all implementations are planned for three years in advance. There are no well-reasoned answers from the designers of weapons from the factories of the Russian Federation. The relevant department of the Ministry of Defense clarified that the issues of patent implementation are decided by the author together with the factories. The patent, despite numerous requests, is in the public domain. The factory workers are in no hurry to leave the scheme of combat automatic weapons, created by our legendary designer Kalashnikov. And nothing has changed. Something like this, dear gentlemen, effective managers and fellow designers, inventors of military automatic weapons .. And then midshipman Krivoruchko came and, as always, said: "We are leaving one at a time, if we are geologists" .....

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"