The Ministry of Defense of the DPR comments on the findings of the Dutch commission on the crash of the Boeing

The authorities of the Donetsk People's Republic have been commenting on the findings of the so-called international group of experts who have been investigating the causes of the crash of the Malaysian Boeing-777 for more than two years. Recall that in the Netherlands today presented a report of the commission, which states that the airliner was allegedly shot down from the territory controlled by the militia, after which the launcher of the complex "Buk" was sent to Russia.

The representative of the Ministry of Defense of the DPR, Eduard Basurin, said that the conclusions made by Western experts can not be called correct. Edward Basurina quotes Donetsk News Agency:

There were no such systems of air defense on our armament - neither systems nor specialists. Therefore, we could not bring down the Boeing. There was no point in shooting down a civilian aircraft, this is insane. Why do we need it?

I want to remind you that after the "Boeing" was shot down, there was a statement by the American side that they had shot down him from the territory under the control of the militia, with reference to the fact that they had pictures from their satellites. Two years have passed, this picture has not been seen yet. After appealing to Ukraine to provide materials from their radar stations, which ships were airborne at that time, no one provided anything. But at the same time they immediately began to declare that they had shot down the Buk system from the territory under the control of the militia. I believe that this is specifically a consequence of a result in a dead end. The Commission is the second time draws conclusions, and wrong conclusions.

According to Basurin, Boeing, if it was shot down by a missile of the Buk complex, was owned by the Ukrainian army. The fact that in the area of ​​the crash Ukrainian air defense systems were actively operating are evidenced by numerous satellite images, as well as data from the Russian Defense Ministry.

Here is the complete English version of the broadcast of the report of the Dutch Commission (RT):

Comments

[Smoked]

Expected. Let's see in a year where something will turn out.

[Kelwin]

After 2 years) extended to 2018, and will continue to extend apparently, like the series. But in fact they did not say anything at all. Next should be a quote from Lavrov)

[OLD FART]

Quote: KelWin

After 2 years) extended to 2018, and will continue to extend apparently, like the series. But in fact they did not say anything at all. Next should be a quote from Lavrov)

Groundhog Day continues .... And notice how we in Syria begin to wet the devils, barking begins immediately ..

[Kelwin]

Yes sir. And the same scenery for the second round. Then Europe did not want to impose sanctions, that's a reason, now they talk about canceling - "we remind you, Russian beech!" True, it looks pale, they can still arrange a provocation ...

[Kelwin]

But please, I did not have to wait long.

Kirby: “Extremist groups will continue to use the vacuum in Syria to expand their activities, which may include attacks on Russia's national interests and even attacks on Russian cities. "Russia will continue to lose military personnel and continue to lose resources, possibly even airplanes."
Totally here https://russian.rt.com/article/323386-budet-sbito
-bolshe-samolyotov-ssha-predosteregli-moskvu

If this is not an inaccuracy of the translation, then ... They are there completely off the coils or something ...

[faridg7]

it is said that the airliner was allegedly shot down from territory controlled by militias, after which the Buk missile launcher was sent to Russia.

is it they from the decryption of the flight recorders of the Boeing understood? There probably a map with a beech transportation route was printed and signed only by the Commander-in-Chief

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Smoked

. Let's see in a year where something will turn out.

It turned out already. Meet the video from the investigation. They presented a video of the same Ukrainian Beech at number 312, only having deleted the number. Now this is Russian Beech. Aliluia .... and the title of the most corrupt scouts, receives a Boeing commission

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

It turned out already. Meet the video from the investigation.

Sasha, but not the first, unfortunately, cartoons and video games replace evidence ....
Cartoon countries, proofs are the same ...
Hello to the monarchists!

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: stalkerwalker

Sasha, but not the first, unfortunately, cartoons and video games replace evidence ....

Healthy Ilyich No, I understand arrogance, but not to the same extent. Take proof of Ukrainian Buk, who already participated in the recent parade and say that this is our Buk. Video him in the 25th minute, look

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

No, I understand arrogance, but not to the same extent. Take proof of Ukrainian Buk, who already participated in the recent parade and say that this is our Buk. Video him in the 25th minute, look

Sasha, then in July 14th, these cartoons were wiped to the holes, examined, sorted by seconds, by angles and comments ...
It's a shame, of course ...
I am no longer hiding with all the Europeans on board (the pilot and others), to the question "How are you?", I directly answer that like "Yes .... It is very difficult to eat meldonium every day at the behest of a bloody gebny, to drink it all fired vodka, not forgetting to play the balalaika "March of the artillerymen" "....
And you know, it still dawns on many that the country of Russia cannot suddenly become a kind of evil empire ....
But there are cranks with the letter M. Upon learning that you are Russian, they stop communicating if possible.
I put on such with the device from the height of the Eiffel Tower ....

[redeemer]

the most interesting thing is that the MO is silent about the fact that there was no aircraft ...

[Pasha]

WADA leads investigation into Boeing ?!

[voyaka uh]

Does not look like it.
In the photo of the BUK UA, moving in a military convoy,
the numbers 312 are written close to each other, almost close. And each number is written "in one motion".

And the pictures of the "suspect" BUK say "3" "-sterto-" "2" - but each number on the big
distance from each other. And "2" is clearly written "under the stencil" - the hook on top and the stick below - strictly separate.

On both BUK numbers in the same place
If they wanted to erase a number, they would cover it up completely. That's not difficult.

[Magua-xnumx]

The damage on the plane is unlike those that the Beech leaves. But they are the same as those that leave the Su-25 with its gun.

dirt from part of the room could fall off.

[dmi.pris1]

They did not expect anything else. A priori are to blame. But the investigative experiment "Almaz-Antey" was carried out, it is not even taken into account.

[Kolya]

The West can abandon its claims only if the opponent is finished. Then they can even apologize to the world community, but in order to recognize Ukraine as guilty and to deal with it already.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: Smoked

Let's see in a year where something will turn out.

[Kolya]

The West extends investigations, sanctions, and democratic operations while there is unconquered. After subjugation or destruction, the West prescribes History.

[krops777]

Actually, one does not have to expect anything else from the Euro-advanced. In this situation, the investigation could not be carried out.

[katalonec2014]

I won’t be surprised if a secret command has already come to the European courts that claims against Ukraine should not be accepted under any pretext, only against Russia.

[Retvizan]

Quote: Basurin

There were no such systems of air defense on our armament - neither systems nor specialists. Therefore, we could not bring down the Boeing. There was no point in shooting down a civilian aircraft, this is insane. Why do we need it?

The material of this NOSa states that the investigation “established” the following:
The Boeing 777, flying in July 2014 along the route Amsterdam - Kuala Lumpur, was shot down by a rocket of the Russian Buk complex from the territory controlled by the "pro-Russian rebels" in the area of ​​the settlement of Pervomaiskoe (https://topwar.ru/ 101331-gollandskie-smi-publikuy
ut-vyvody-komissii-o-prichinah-krusheniya-mh17.ht
ml)
Basurin needs to carefully read the report. You must also be able to refute.
By the way, the weight of “Basurin” is too small, and it has stained itself more than once. For the commission, his words mean nothing. If they are still considering the opinion of the Russian Federation, then the opinion of the controlled ones is unlikely.

[Diana Ilyina]

For the commission, his words mean nothing.

You might think that the words of this "commission" mean anything at all. Except for undisguised Russophobia and the fitting of "evidence" to the American version, there is nothing more to wait ...! Only a deaf-blind-mute person can believe these arguments, however in Ukraine there are more than enough of them. So you can celebrate another "change"! The main thing is that after a while it does not turn into another zeal ...

By the way, the weight of “Basurin” is too small, and it has stained itself more than once.

Whose cow would moo ?! Behind your talking heads, Basurin can’t keep up with all his will!

[Retvizan]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

So you can celebrate another "change"! The main thing is that after a while it doesn’t turn into another zeal.

no help for me not. Parts of my country are accused of "acting" - the Russian Federation, and Ukraine "assisting" (not closing the space, despite the data on weapons). Where is it for me peremoga?

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Whose cow would moo ?! Behind your talking heads, Basurin can’t keep up with all his will!

for me there is no difference between "talking heads". They all lie, only the opposite versions. What are the Tymchuks and the Basurins ... they are supposed to voice the state.
They lie to us, for domestic consumption. The world is a lie to the lantern. We are for them the periphery.

[Tatyana]

Retvizan
for me there is no difference between "talking heads". They all lie, only the opposite versions. What are the Tymchuks and the Basurins ... they are supposed to voice the state.
They lie to us, for domestic consumption.

You, Retvisan, have a “mess” in your head with “SULFUR gas”!
If you, Retvizan, do not distinguish Tymchuk, who “sailed” into politics from the team of Yatsenyuk (US protege in Ukraine, who ordered the start of the ATO in Ukraine), from Basurin (DNI - victims of the ATO by order of the USA), then you are a Ukrainian zombie a product of pro-American liberal fascist propaganda in Ukraine in the Goebel sense! With what I “congratulate” you! “Hydrogen sulfide” further to yourself to perdition by your maydanutskoy stupidity!

The world is a lie to the lantern. We are peripherals for them.

And what does it personally change for you, Retvisan ?!
Yes! Ukraine for the rulers of the "new world order" is really a country - NOTHING and there is NO call it! And you personally, Retvizan, for them - with SUCH "understanding" in your head - almost "earthly dust" is almost already! You personally, Retwisan, have already lost your country to American globalists!
Remember! They are still “reckoning” with Ukraine in the world only because there is a DNI and an LC !!! And while Russia exists!

[Odysseus]

At the same time, Westerbeck emphasized that the Netherlands Prosecutor General’s Office does not connect the crash of the Malaysian Boeing 777 with the actions of Russia or Russian citizens.
That is, the "investigation" connects the downing of Boeing with the actions of "pro-Russian rebels" to whom the Buk was transferred from the territory of Russia.
So the refutation of Basurino is correct, but your remark is not.

Quote: Retvizan

For the commission, his words mean nothing. If they are still considering the opinion of the Russian Federation,

For the "commission" the opinion of Russia means as much as the opinion of the DPR-absolute zero.
The "Commission" was created to legalize the "point of view" that Russia is to blame for the downing of Boeing.

[Retvizan]

Quote: Odyssey

Westerbeke stressed that the Netherlands Prosecutor General’s office does not connect the crash of the Malaysian Boeing 777 with the actions of Russia or Russian citizens

Netherlands no. The commission has about 100 suspects. And the conclusions of the commission will be used by others.
The words of a member of the commission can be interpreted as "Russia and the DPR" or the DPR itself. As noted below, a kind of carrot for the victim.
From my remark, all the same, do not throw out the origin of Buk for the commission. And his route.
Overall
Commission - Russian Beech from the territory controlled by the DPR.
DNR-we do not have such tools and specialists.
My opinion is that Basurin needed to refute precisely the territory as a launch site.
This is just my point.

[clidon]

And if in fact the DNR troops (or our vacationers) would have shot down - would they admit?

[Magua-xnumx]

Maybe. Captain and Commander Vinennes even received awards for the Iranian passenger airbus.

[clidon]

That is, would they recognize the presence of foreign equipment and such a mistake? Last time (KAL 007) we also unlocked to the last.

[Magua-xnumx]

Why immediately foreign?
The Americans shot down an Iranian over neutral waters, and all the corpses were found.
The West is still trying not to notice that KAL was walking empty (not a single corpse was found), was shot down within the borders of the USSR after refusing to obey, and a series of provocative maneuvers. Prior to that, Murmansk had been shot down and sat on the ice of another lake, also a stubborn South Korean airliner, he was walking with people; only two died there

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Retvizan

The material of this NOSa states that the investigation “established” the following:

Doesn’t bother Ukrainian Buk in proving?

[Retvizan]

everything bothers me in this matter. And versions of the parties seeking to blame the other as much as possible.
But the report is better than the controversy. For the commission, the origin of Buka is
But the second most important conclusion voiced was the origin of the missile system - the Buk was imported from Russia

[72jora72]

But the report is better than the controversy. For the commission, the origin of Buka is
But the second most important conclusion voiced was the origin of the missile system - the Buk was imported from Russia

YES YES! The conclusions of the commission, honest and impartial !! ............................... but the sight of a test tube with " terrible "powder .........

[Makarov]

Well, the report looked quite convincing, and the evidence base was collected sensibly and completely ... any prosecutor based on such a quantity of such evidence could very well count on the arrest of the criminal ... otherwise you need to provide convincing evidence that everything was not as the investigators and prosecutors say from 5 countries ...

[B.T.V.]

Excuse me, are you joking or something ?!

[Makarov]

no ... if you saw a real case in court or even less so, especially criminal, you should understand that this material is quite enough for a court of almost any level to recognize evidence as facts involved in the case ... and the conclusions of the investigation regarding the participle those or other persons are proved separately ... usually so ...

[Kelwin]

First, find the instrument of crime and attach it to the suspect. There is nothing to talk about otherwise.

[Makarov]

this is the second question ... these same prosecutors said so - we established that this is and this is for us facts based on this, this and these evidence, which are convincing for us. Who the suspect they did not say ...

[In100gram]

Quote: Makarov

this is the second question ... the same prosecutors said so - we established that this is this and this

You rave, and constantly get confused in the testimony. Diagnosis

Quote: Makarov

if you have seen a real case in court or even less so, especially criminal, you must understand that this material is quite enough for a court of almost any level to recognize evidence as facts involved in the case ..

Prosecutors, investigators, court. Have seen enough movies

[Kelwin]

This is the most important question, the evidence base is built around it. Everything that the investigation team (and not the prosecutors) voiced, even if it is "convincing" for them, is legally equal to zero, and not a single sane prosecutor will go to trial with such materials. Therefore, the investigation was extended until 18, because they have absolutely nothing.

[Magua-xnumx]

Because they already know what brought down the APU, therefore, arriving two days later they went sadly, left with the first shelling, and for a long time did not take the wreckage from the field.
But that was one thing, and if they now claim that it is LDNR, and in this way, Russia is also involved, then it is necessary to answer for such a bazaar.

[Palch]

I would not be so categorical. In the aggregate of the collected signs, they will bind. And they don’t need to look for a specific person or installation. Unfortunately, formally, they have all the cards on hand to form a certain world opinion regarding Russia. And don’t write here - it’s all for us ..., as they say it is very painful. Bravado and hatred do not lead to good.

[Kelwin]

Look ... If the goal is to form a negative image of the Russian Federation, and not to search and punish the real culprits, then, of course, you don’t need to search for anything, and you don’t need to bind, it’s enough. Here you are right. Well, they’re not looking, so no one is going to court with this filinka letter. The only thing, in my opinion, that the boomerang effect can turn out - frankly weak argumentation (to put it mildly) can unexpectedly unfold the opinion of a certain number of people, even in Europe.
Shl. And we are far from good ..., we would ideally force these "partners" to play by the rules and stop wiping themselves with international law, not only in the case of B, but in general, but it looks like everything has gone too far and everyone can get it.

[Tatyana]

Kelwin
but it seems that everything has gone too far and everyone can get it.

Ha! That's for sure!

[tolancop]

For the court, speak enough? Nu-nu ... So ... let's go.
1. The motive for the crime. Why DNR or Russia to bring down a civilian plane? What about this in the report?
2. Where is the attachment of the damaging elements to the modification of the rocket?
3. Where are the data on the location of air defense, missile consumption, dispatcher negotiations, etc.?
4. Why are materials rejected from Russia? Grounds?
5. Why was the investigation secret?

Another "Why?" sketch out?

In an objective and independent court, these why will lead to the acquittal of the accused, or at least to be sent for further investigation.

[Makarov]

1. The answer to the question after the report. In your own words: Accidentally shot down in an attempt to defend themselves against APU air raids.
2. See the report, there they devoted the lion's share of explanations. That's about the number of elements found, they shy away from answering, but I think they’re cunning ... Plus, a piece of the rocket itself was found in the vicinity of the window rack, and this is direct evidence.
3. This is too obvious, and therefore the Ukrainian authorities most likely provided reports, otherwise any first-year lawyer would have cut them off on this issue. Given the rates in this process, a gap here is possible but unlikely.
4. They talked about this, listen carefully or find an explanatory translation. The official basis is the deadline for submission. The ones that were submitted in 2014 were considered and they consider them incorrect, this is also in the report ... it is quite possible to prove that they are true.
5. Because the offender, having data on the progress of the investigation, can cover the tracks, and when 100 people per 1000 km participate in the crime, it is much easier to do this ...

Sketch ... just before that, carefully look at the report ...

[Kelwin]

Also in your own words. "Fragment" of what "rocket"? Each "rocket" has an account number, was someone asked for product movement data? No. Washes from the wreckage done? no. Are the claims voiced at the press agency of the Federal Air Transport Agency at least heard? Again, no. Is A.A.'s argument also ignored? Yes, the ukurkov were directly accused of falsification - they pretended to be deaf. I do not mean that you shield someone, but why the investigation is being conducted through the anus of the American buffalo, explain, no?

[katalonec2014]

Data is provided, including by the manufacturer in the person of Almaz-Antey, but the point is that Russia was assigned the culprit long before the flight left.

Quote: Makarov

on the basis of such a quantity of such evidence, any prosecutor may well count on the detention of the offender ..

Are the surnames named there?

[Makarov]

I’m generally ... but since they talked about 100 suspects, it means that they already have a certain list of involved persons, all the more so Buka’s calculation somewhere he had friends and acquaintances, and if you wish, you can pick it all up ... but judging by according to the comments of the prosecutors, only irrefutable evidence of a violation of the chain of conclusions they constructed will be able to change their point of view ...

[Diana Ilyina]

they said about 100 suspects, which means they already have a certain list of involved persons, all the more so Buka’s calculation studied somewhere, they have friends and acquaintances, and you can pick it all up if you wish

And if they open up and it turns out that the calculation was Ukrainian, then what will you sing ?!

[Makarov]

this does not agree with their version ... even if dozens of witnesses prove that the beech route was not the same as they believe, then this will destroy the whole picture of their accusations ... but so far this is not their official conclusion and you can only argue with him in court proving the impossibility of this or that "fact" from their report ...

[2c1]

The fact is that, back in 14 g, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation provided satellite images of the area where you can clearly see the air defense positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, including the positions of Buk air defense systems, there is information about the operation of the guidance station from the adjacent side, that is, you need to understand the direction and range to say, this means that we can reasonably and with facts on hand object to the accusation that even there they have been convinced for proof, I don’t even presume to assume that all the provocation is based on the identity of the weapon systems, but this is far from all And how there Europithets in court will be exhausted. I really want to see, I didn’t gather to judge Uncle Vasya, but the state is presented with the Bell’s case, you can run into!

[The leader of the Redskins]

Do you remember only one MO picture? I personally am a few. And the Ukrainian attack aircraft, and the positions of the "Buk" ... And two planes ... I have not all, probably, remembered ... Which one to believe more?

[ramzes1776]

The fact that the commission, like Almaz-Antey, defined the modification of the missile as 9M38 without M1, indicates that this is not our missile. They were withdrawn from service already in 2011, and the APU has about 500 of them.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: ramzes1776

The fact that the commission, like Almaz-Antey, defined the modification of the missile as 9M38 without M1, indicates that this is not our missile. They were withdrawn from service already in 2011, and the APU has about 500 of them.

Do you think that if a rocket is removed from service, then it will be disposed of immediately?

This is not true. Missiles taken out of service go to storage bases and are stored until the PU is in service, capable of launching them or the shelf life of safe storage has not been extended.

In addition, as a result of the annexation of Crimea, warehouses for storing weapons and ammunition, including missile defense systems, were obtained.

[katalonec2014]

Excuse me, what about the presumption of innocence, that is, the suspects must prove their innocence themselves? This is nonsense.

[Makarov]

OK. You are accused of robbery. Sledak, collects convincing evidence against you - photos, conversations that can somehow stick to this case, etc. ... no one says that you have to make excuses? Right? the presumption works - you can calmly wait for the moment when you are asked in court and you say that this is all untrue .. only the investigator will have fabricated "evidence" in his hands, and you only have your wife's word of honor in court. And here is the presumption when it is always necessary to collect evidence of your innocence ?! You may not do this, but then do not be surprised if the judge does not accept your arguments as convincing. After the charges are brought, the accused, if he does not want to lose, always collects evidence of his innocence ... and does not rely on the presumption ...

[Retvizan]

Quote: Makarov

in court you only have the word of honor of your wife. And here is the presumption when it is always necessary to collect evidence of your innocence ?!

that is, an alibi is always necessary ..

[atalef]

Quote: Retvizan

Quote: Makarov

in court you only have the word of honor of your wife. And here is the presumption when it is always necessary to collect evidence of your innocence ?!

that is, an alibi is always necessary ..

The presumption of innocence works before the evidence base is gathered.

[Palch]

Absolutely agree! Moreover, it is necessary not only to provide evidence of their innocence, but also to show the interest of the prosecution in the forgery of evidence of guilt - for a subsequent lawsuit to protect the honor and dignity. But to sit and mumble like we have nothing to do with it, they’re all poop, and we’ll all be their wiles to the bulb of the type, and so we will live - complete idiocy.

[B.T.V.]

Quote: Makarov

.but judging by the comments of the prosecutors, only irrefutable evidence of a violation of the chain of conclusions they constructed will be able to change their point of view ...

"Blessed is he who believes" if he believes, and does not work out 30 pieces of silver.

[Diana Ilyina]

Well, the report looked quite convincing

For whom?!

on the basis of such a quantity of such evidence, any prosecutor may well count on the detention of the offender

Has the capture group already left for PARAShenka and Co. ?!

[Makarov]

again ... prove that it was he who gave the order, publish it and maybe they will leave ...

[Magua-xnumx]

His loud statements and statements by other officials about the beginning of the hunt for enemy number 1 were published a week or two earlier. During the war, only one passenger plane was shot down in the Donbass and looks like a Russian one from the government squadron.

After that, there were demonstrations at the Dutch Embassy in Kiev with candles and posters "forgive us." Then I bowed to the Australian flag in the belt.

[Tusv]

Quote: Makarov

Well, the report looked quite convincing, and the evidence base was collected sensibly and completely ... any prosecutor based on such a quantity of such evidence could well count on the arrest of the criminal

And what's so sensible? Social Media Charges? Class !!!
Ukraine (by the way, the suspect) is part of the JIT. For which court will this letter be evidence?

[Makarov]

I do not argue. The court will ask the opinion of the other side, and to say that we are out of business, because according to our data the plane did not work there, because the Dutchman already answered this: if you didn’t see it, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t ... I I don’t claim that this commission said so, I’m just saying that for most judges in most countries of the world this amount of evidence is enough to accept as a fact the presence of MANPADS from the Russian Federation and launch from it ... + Dutchman said when answering journalists' questions that the reason for the arrival of such an air defense system was the fear of local residents for their lives as a result of the actions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces aviation ...

[vovanpain]

Quote: Makarov

. The court will ask the opinion of the other side, and to say that we are not in business, because according to our data the plane wasn’t working there,

Dear, do you yourself at least believe in the impartiality of the court? The Hague Tribunal acquitted Slobodan Milosevic, 10 years after his death in the prison of the Hague Tribunal, this is such insanity, explain also why Ukraine is on this commission? If it was as one of the suspected parties, a strange coincidence, isn't it? But there is no Russia, it doesn’t tell you anything? Too many docking connections. Please explain why the evidence is taken from social networks, although Russia provided experiments and monitoring of the radar station, and even the holy of holies of the TTX "Buk"? Explain, please, where are the negotiations of the Dnipropetrovsk dispatchers? Why is Ukraine so afraid, if Russia is to blame, what they are afraid of, to provide. And there are a lot of questions, and there are even more inconsistencies.

[Makarov]

No. I do not believe. But I believe that convincing evidence for ordinary people in Europe will turn unreasonable attacks on the Russian Federation through international courts into a farce, and public opinion in Europe still has some weight. Ukraine, as a country in whose territory the Boeing was shot down, could well explain its presence in the commission, while the Russian Federation denied recognizing itself as one of the parties to the conflict - no. It's like a werewolf-ment - while no one knows that he is 100% guilty, he calmly goes to work and is aware of the progress of the investigation. I can not answer all your questions. Negotiations of the dispatchers are most likely either a false trace or nothing there, but about the fear of Ukraine ... well, I don’t know .. inconsistencies are mainly connected (as for me) with the suspicious awareness of the Ukrainian media and leadership, which immediately after the plane was shot down knew where what they killed and who killed as well as how many people died, although usually such information is provided in such precise formulations after a couple of days ... this is really curious, but Shariy poked it with his finger)

[Tusv]

Quote: Makarov

I do not argue. The court will ask the opinion of the other side, and to say that we are out of business, because according to our data the plane did not work there, because the Dutchman already answered this: if you didn’t see it, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t ... I I’m not saying that this was what the commission says, I’m just saying that for most judges in most countries of the world this amount of evidence is enough to accept as a fact the presence of MANPADS from the Russian Federation

Do you know that in the West, precedent law?
Imagine the Suspect is part of the task force to collect evidence on these social networks. The case is won. What are the implications for this system? Each criminal will scream about this precedent and will be right. For such is the law now

[Makarov]

precedent can be implemented only by the highest judicial authority. Case law implies the formation of a legal norm from the circumstances of a case not previously met ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Makarov

Well, the report looked quite convincing, and the evidence base was collected

Especially this proof Super, just a 100 percent masterpiece. You'll recognize Buk, this Buk in proof

[Palch]

One picture does not mean anything - I think they will provide a complete video sequence without signs of editing.

[ramzes1776]

But this photo is not proof that the beech rode around the territory controlled by the militia and the same trailer with militia armored vehicles then rode after the Boeing was shot down:

[Kelwin]

By itself, no. This photo can, in theory, become a starting point for certain investigative actions, searching for a car, interrogating the driver, determining their location at a time of interest, and so on. Further, if it becomes reliably known that this particular car is there and there, start looking for customers for transportation, who, where, from where. And so to unwind the chain of events to specific individuals who are "stabbed". All this, of course, is documented in the prescribed manner, confirmed by examinations and so on, in fact, hellish work. That is why what was shown at the briefing was not an investigation, but an imitation, moreover, made by a dude.

[kit-kat]

I think the driver has already died heroically.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: kit-kat

I think the driver has already died heroically.

Easy - a bullet in the LPR replaces the evidence base.

Recently, militia in the LPR shot a former retired paratrooper (not a small rank) - he came to control the costs, which are constantly stolen by the brave Lugansk militia. Apparently asked uncomfortable questions and immediately got a bullet in the forehead from the militias.
The guys say that in response, the militia base was quickly surrounded by special forces - I really hope that these scumbags will be buried there.
So there is no need to intercede for everyone - the militia is a militia for strife.

I have no doubt that BUK could fall in one way or another into the hands of people - who did not care what purpose it was to launch a rocket, who did not think about the consequences of their actions.

[Kelwin]

Perhaps so, if it is a beech. Personally, I don’t see any rocket at all, and the farther, the stronger I do not see. I thought maybe the Dutch would say something interesting, but the figurines, the same water ... The only thing is that the old rockets, for the experiments they used, are a good source for laying, no one will check there. Mikroplusik in favor of bookmarks after all. IMHO, of course.

[Magua-xnumx]

This picture is not at the time of launch, if it is a Buk militia, then it could be transported for repair.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine have dozens of times more beeches, and all are operational.

In general, the Boeing was shot down by plane.

[Magua-xnumx]

In the press it was that a couple of days before this, the Buki in an inoperative state were captured by the militia.
Of course, they could have time to fix them, but ... It's all not important because the Boeing was shot down from an airplane
The militia had the same plane, but it had nothing to do against the Ukrainian fighters in the sky.

[Makarov]

By the way, I missed this photo, and did not see it in the report

[Machete]

There isn’t much to comment on.
What else to expect from them?
Water again and nothing concrete. With ignoring important facts.

[sl3]

And there’s no other expectation. As stated, America has pictures, evidence, but we can’t provide them. And so it turns out, Russia is to blame and believe us. In the meantime, the p. D. the junta, there will be no truth. They issued a verdict, but they did not have time to study the documentation from Almaz-antei. Here is an independent investigation dictated by the Yankees.

[Palch]

As a rule, in court, the parties are in no hurry to immediately and simultaneously lay out their arguments. Unfortunately, we are only in defense. They didn’t provide anything serious.

[Machete]

Quote: katalonec2014

I won’t be surprised if a secret command has already come to the European courts that claims against Ukraine should not be accepted under any pretext, only against Russia.

Oh well, that's too much.

[katalonec2014]

Quote: Machete

Oh well, that's too much.

Why? Blind faith that only we can call the judge from above, but is it impossible for them?

[weksha50]

Interestingly the girls are dancing ...
Two years of investigation ... In addition, they decided to continue the investigation until the end of 2018 ...
Is this not insanity?
Initially, the goal was defined: to blame the destruction of the Boeing of LDNR, and in their person - Russia ...
However, a banal phrase suggests itself: "Where is your proof?" ...
Initially, the issue with the air traffic controllers who "conducted" this flight was "blurred" ... The most elementary questions about who and why sent the Boeing to the wrong place (or vice versa - to where someone was it is necessary), who and how tracked him ... Well, and so on ...
In two years the result will be the same ... Well, why should I pull this bootleg? Hold Russia under the sword of Damocles?
Or wait for the padishah (i.e. Ukraine) to die?
For me, it would be better during this time to die overseas donkey, who invented and stupidly staged this performance ...

[Kelwin]

Well, why pull this bootleg? Hold Russia under the sword of Damocles?

Likely to heat up the cooling down European enthusiasm for sanctions that want to continue with less and less. It’s just right in time, maybe they’ll arrange some kind of provocation, God forbid, of course ... We can only expect everything from mattresses now, they seem to have gone ahead before the elections, the anti-Russian topic weighs a lot there.

[Palch]

The fact that the investigation was extended until the age of 18 is quite normal. In our native investigative bodies and courts, cases of theft are great from the entrance for half a year, and you are talking about an international investigation into a plane crash. Normally, by the way in time, taking into account the calculation of the fuselage and field experiments, with the actual opposition of all interested parties. If the conclusion of the investigation is not custom-made, then based on the scope of the work done, they can be set off. They are far from loshars and know their work.

[EvgNik]

The authorities of the Donetsk People’s Republic comment on the findings of the so-called international group of experts who have been investigating the causes of the crash of the Malaysian Boeing 777 for more than two years.

The fact of the matter is that they can only comment. And Retvisan can also advise. So assigned to this role. Advisor, or indicating the line of the party.

Basurin needs to carefully read the report. You must also be able to refute.
By the way, the weight of “Basurin” is too small, and it has stained itself more than once.

And how many times did Retvisan stain himself? Do not wash yourself to death.

[Retvizan]

Quote: EvgNik

And Retvisan can also advise. So assigned to this role. Advisor, or indicating the line of the party.

can you blame me, but I would have familiarized myself with Basurin and thought how to clearly formulate official comment. Although now it’s in Ukraine, what is sometimes voiced there, not being prepared.
I am skeptical about Basurin himself. I repeat, they have such a position that there is no difference between ours, Republicans and Russian representatives. Everyone lies (House). Lies of one’s own are naturally closer and more offensive. When your own lie.

Quote: EvgNik

And how many times did Retvisan stain himself? Do not wash yourself to death.

no doubt everyone can make mistakes, I'm not perfect. If I become an official representative, then I will have a much smaller corridor of opportunities to say what I really think. Like Basurin.

[Rom14]

The Boeing did not have time to fall as Obama declared to the whole world the fault of Russia .. And what can we expect from the slime-eaters? Send ushlopkov ON and forget .., make excuses, that you prove something - as if you shot down.

[Gennady Alexandrovich]

Even if the militias were shot down, Ukraine, the USA, and the EU are to blame for this. It was not necessary Ukrainian. to bomb Donbass with military aircraft, and to launch civilian aircraft into the airspace (war zone). By love, the wine lies with UKRSA-EU

[Makarov]

the commission said casually about this ... answering the questions of journalists ... the most curious statement in my opinion ...

[Gennady Alexandrovich]

And yet: knowing the insidiousness of the Maidan Ukrainians and Americans, the plane was sent specifically to this dangerous zone, and the militias, if they shot down by mistake, not knowing that this is a civilian plane

[Palch]

Dear read article 67.4 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation - ignorance of the law does not exempt from liability !!! It’s not the one who directed someone somewhere, but the one who killed !!!

[engineer74]

The video report is interesting: the geo-referencing of the photos is given to a 3D model, and not to real objects on the ground, the field with the trace left is yellow to the horizon, and the satellite image is dark green, the radio interception is almost from Russian territory ... However, I am not an expert.

[zanoza]

Quote: Smoked

Expected.

Everything according to the plan of the States, as intended. We shoot down Boeing and bring down on Russia + relatives demand huge compensation. Stage of demonization of Russia. Doubtful proofs, dubious links and everything classified as "secret". They do not speak in words about guilt, but they point a finger in our direction.

[engineer74]

If you blame Russia directly, the process will take on an adversarial look: their evidence is against ours, and the "partners" don't need it. (These pictures and calls have already been denied more than once.)
IMHO

[Altona]

This "report" of the JIT (joint investigation team) contains some cartoons and a "heroic march" of the BUK launcher to the place of the proposed launch. Do they even know that this rocket shooter can't get anywhere without radar and control machines? Pfft, it took 2 years to draw a cartoon and add photos and videos from social networks to it.

[ramzes1776]

BUK can work on goals alone without support machines in a narrow range, but still it can.

[Magua-xnumx]

The beech missile does not carry a 30mm gun on itself, all the more so why should the militia shoot in such a strange way the only plane in the area similar to the Russian presidential one.

[Machete]

Quote: katalonec2014

Quote: Machete

Oh well, that's too much.

Why? Blind faith that only we can call the judge from above, but is it impossible for them?

Well no.
It’s just that all these influential courts have some great weight in the world and they will not be dishonored. That's even decided with Yukos in our direction. And already there, how many things were poured onto our heads. But they decided in essence.

[katalonec2014]

Quote: Machete

That's even decided with Yukos in our direction

The wind has changed, it is short-lived that day when we at VO will discuss the turn in the Yukos affair.

[Machete]

Come on.
They will find another reason.

[DimerVladimer]

An example, when a moron is given a loaded gun, he only "shoots himself in the foot", but also "burned the benefactor."
I wonder who transmitted the installation thought about the possible consequences?
Although ... sensible performers can not be found ...

[Volodin]

.

Quote: DimerVladimer

An example, when a moron is given a loaded gun, he only "shoots himself in the foot", but also "burned the benefactor."

Well, why are you so about Peter Alekseevich, the president of the world? ..

[engineer74]

Yes of course! They handed over the launcher, without extra. ammunition without intelligence, even without a tanker, dragged across the entire LDNR to the cutting edge, probably going to shoot at tanks? Do you yourself believe that?

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: engineer74

Yes of course! They handed over the launcher, without extra. ammunition without intelligence, even without a tanker, dragged across the entire LDNR to the cutting edge, probably going to shoot at tanks? Do you yourself believe that?

Well, if "Voentorg" delivered hundreds of tanks, wagons of ammunition, why not give one beech, and how many of them could there be? The guys asked so, they asked, who could have thought ... In general, the guys are good ... Understand and forgive.

[engineer74]

"Buk" is a complex of radar, SDU, TZM and something else, a single SDU "BUK" is not! The report clearly says "BUK", and only the Armed Forces of Ukraine have complexes on the territory of Ukraine! It is pointless to carry a single SDU throughout the LPNR.

[grandfather Mih]

Right. The radar and command post are approximately on the Ternovoye-B. Shishovka line. The missile was launched approximately Zaroshchenskoye - MN-17 on the Stozhkovskoye - Moskovskoye line and in a straight line to the crash site. May Day by launching a rocket can appoint an oligophrenic from the Patriot. Morons, ...!

[ramzes1776]

Quote: DimerVladimer

Quote: engineer74

Yes of course! They handed over the launcher, without extra. ammunition without intelligence, even without a tanker, dragged across the entire LDNR to the cutting edge, probably going to shoot at tanks? Do you yourself believe that?

Well, if "Voentorg" delivered hundreds of tanks, wagons of ammunition, why not give one beech, and how many of them could there be? The guys asked so, they asked, who could have thought ... In general, the guys are good ... Understand and forgive.

Especially in this area, before the Boeing, they shot down the ukrovsky AN-26 at a height that neither the MANPADS nor the Strela air defense systems that were at the militia could reach.

[engineer74]

According to the "investigation", "Buk" was not there either ...

[Magua-xnumx]

Quote: DimerVladimer

Example, when a moron is given a loaded gun,

An example when they give a version for a moron with Buk (of course, militias), and his fascinating searches in Google ... They themselves are quietly shot down by an airplane, the marks of which weapons are very easily determined.

[Altona]

Quote: Makarov

Well, the report looked quite convincing, and the evidence base was collected sensibly and completely ... any prosecutor based on such a quantity of such evidence could very well count on the arrest of the criminal ... otherwise you need to provide convincing evidence that everything was not as the investigators and prosecutors say from 5 countries ...

---------------------------
In Ukraine, I see prosecutors generally work on evidence from cartoons, and the President on voices from outer space.

[AdekvatNICK]

where is the dispatcher of ukraine who "led" the ship ?! where are the images of the Americans from the area satellite ?! blowjobs damn how much you can play a comedy on the bones of dead Boeing people!

[Machete]

Dispatcher in the ground, no images, radar data destroyed.
What are these issues for?

[AdekvatNICK]

it’s you who tell Lavrov what these questions are for. He has asked them more than once.

[tnk1969]

No wonder there was information that the Netherlands was able to get the United States to withdraw all its gold reserves from US jurisdiction. Apparently a regular bargaining took place. Gold on charge.

[Eugene 1475]

What we pulled to the last, with radar data! We have already been accused, and now it makes no difference to them that we have provided them!

[avg-mgn]

Quote: Makarov

Well, the report looked quite convincing, and the evidence base was collected sensibly and completely ...... otherwise, you need to provide convincing evidence that everything was not as the investigators and prosecutors from 5 countries claim ...

Oh really??? I highly recommend viewing the following material below (your fellow countryman, by the way)

http://allpravda.info/plan-katastrofy-boinga-mh17
-gotovilo-tsru-20677.html

[Vladimir61]

Oil to oil! First, a duck about the guilt of the Russian Federation in the shelling of the humanitarian convoy, and now they got it out of the "information war warehouse" and this is a "duck" investigation. One "duck" will retouch the other, and only the fact of publication will remain in the memory. Yes, create a commission of military, political and other experts, give them all the materials without exception (expert opinions, intelligence, trajectories and time of finding satellites) and let them give out on the mountain not just a "technical" investigation, but a socio-political one. Focused on the world community, and not on a senseless justification before the initiators and performers of the provocation.
With all due respect to Lavrov, Zakharova and others — well, we cannot prepare and issue information bombs — excuses and attempts to appeal to conscience.

[Vasily Krylov]

... Just know, send them to ... (S.A. Yesenin.)

[Vladimir61]

This is not enough! To be honest, I'm tired of reading "about the successes of Russian diplomacy" - exclusively on Russian sites! The success of diplomacy is being replicated by the world media, not domestic ones. And Zakharova's "remarks" on social networks are "idle chatter", and not the voice of an official representative of the Foreign Ministry.

[Palch]

I completely agree. Yes, what are the successes ?? All with a sign of minutes (do not call it a decadent mood). It is necessary to soberly assess the situation and your location in it, so as not to turn your head!

[Sakhalin.]

How cynical and disgusting, the Dutch side simply blundered, this is the point of cretinism and no respect for their own compatriots. Let them live like rats.

[Stariknv]

An interested country takes part in the investigation to blame Russia, so an objective investigation is not worth the wait.

[gray smeet]

They will make noise, raise the turbidity and everything will subside .... then everything will be raised again at the next "right" moment - what about the continuation of the investigation until 2018?

And as our neighbors-brothers, it inspired! Not smart, confused foam with beer.

[Odysseus]

The conclusions of the "commission" were expected. I will only note the application of the classical Western strategy of "carrots and sticks."
On the one hand, Russia is accused of transferring Buk, on the other hand, the investigation is extended until 2018 and it is said that Russia has nothing to do with it.
The meaning is simple - if you behave well, we will write down that the "rebels" are to blame and we will not put much pressure on you, but if you behave badly, we will eventually "establish" that it is you who are to blame for the deaths of people and we will press you on complete.
I will also note another mistake of our authorities (which all want to come to an agreement with "Western partners.") Instead of initially not recognizing this "commission" itself (which includes Ukraine suspected of destroying the plane), our authorities began to conduct some kind of discussion with it , to present them with some kind of evidence (absolutely not necessary for this commission). Thus, we ourselves indirectly legalized this "commission"

[Retvizan]

Quote: Odyssey

that "commission" (which includes the suspect in the destruction of the aircraft Ukraine)

How else?
Ukraine and the Netherlands signed a memorandum of understanding to investigate the circumstances of the disaster.
"According to the Memorandum, taking into account the fact that the vast majority of victims of the disaster are citizens of the Netherlands, Ukraine, as the country where the event took place, delegates the investigation of the disaster to the Netherlands. This is enshrined in the Agreement between the Ukrainian National Bureau for the Investigation of Aviation Accidents and Incidents with Civil Aircraft and the relevant agency of the Netherlands, "the statement released by the press service of the Ukrainian leader says.
The Netherlands will coordinate the investigation of all the circumstances of the tragedy and will be responsible for its conduct in accordance with part 5 of Annex 13 of the Chicago Convention. The Netherlands will ensure the participation of other interested parties, in particular Ukraine, as the country where the event took place, Malaysia, as the state that owns the aircraft, the USA, as the state that produces the aircraft and ICAO.
There is nothing surprising in the "inclusion of Ukraine" in the commission. Ukraine also inherited from her, it is not yet clear what will happen.
But in practice, the very right step is to delegate the right to the country most interested in the business (the number of dead). Plus, who will believe Ukraine if it also bears blame? And in the third, the Russian Federation and others would question Ukraine’s competence in the investigation (bias)
It is clear Ukraine did the right thing by giving the right to the Netherlands.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Retvizan

Ukraine also inherited from it, it is not clear what will happen.

Just in these matters there is no secret - quasi-Bandera education has no future by definition ...

[Odysseus]

Quote: Retvizan

How else?

Let's start with the fact that Boeing was shot down during a punitive operation carried out by the so-called "authorities" of Ukraine against citizens of their own country.
Moreover, I note that this operation is illegal even on the basis of laws existing in Maidan Ukraine. Since the ATO does not imply army action, martial law was not declared.
That is, the so-called "leadership of Ukraine" are war criminals. And it was from this that the leadership of Russia had to proceed. In this case, the question of who is responsible for the deaths of Boeing passengers, in principle, would not be raised. By default, the Maidan rebels who unleashed the military are to blame. actions
Now, the investigation was to be conducted by the authorities of the DPR with the involvement of specialists from all interested parties. If Ukraine and the Netherlands didn’t send experts, then this is their problem. Russia would send experts and this should be recognized only by this investigation.
Ukraine and the Netherlands (read the USA) would not recognize its results and began to conduct a parallel investigation. Please, but no access to the scene, to the property evidence, etc. they were not provided and Russia would simply ignore it.

[Retvizan]

Quote: Odyssey

Let's start with the fact that Boeing was shot down during a punitive operation carried out by the so-called "authorities" of Ukraine against citizens of their own country.

This will already be offtopic, and we will have different points of view.

Quote: Odyssey

That is, the so-called "leadership of Ukraine" are war criminals. And it was from this that the leadership of Russia had to proceed

For the leadership of the Russian Federation (not Russia), these are Ukrainian partners. It comes from this!

Quote: Odyssey

Russia would send experts, and this and only this investigation should it acknowledge.

Did the Russian Federation disagree with the conclusions? Look, even versions with fighters and attack aircraft were canceled.

Quote: Odyssey

Ukraine and the Netherlands (read USA)

all three countries + Malaysia are countries obliged to conduct investigations (scene of action, citizens dead, country of manufacture of the aircraft, owner of the aircraft)

[Odysseus]

Quote: Retvizan

This will already be offtopic, and we will have different points of view.

There can be no different points of view.
Was there an armed coup? It was.
ATO is illegal even based on the laws of Maidan of Ukraine? Illegally.
What is there to argue about?

Quote: Retvizan

For the leadership of the Russian Federation (not Russia), these are Ukrainian partners. It comes from this!

This is wrong. For this, the Americans will beat us and will beat us.

Quote: Retvizan

Did the Russian Federation disagree with the conclusions?

With the conclusions of the Dutch "commission"? Of course not, look at the reaction.
But the fact is that these conclusions are predetermined in advance, it was impossible to recognize this "commission" at all.

Quote: Retvizan

all three countries + Malaysia are countries obliged to conduct investigations (scene of action, citizens dead, country of manufacture of the aircraft, owner of the aircraft)

So in the DPR, an investigation is being conducted where all parties are obligated to carry out this investigation. This investigation recognizes Russia.
If the Americans don’t recognize this investigation through their puppets and don’t send their experts to Donetsk, then this is their problem. Let them conduct their investigation without a thing. docks and this investigation and its findings, Russia ignores.

[Magua-xnumx]

Why wouldn’t they connect Russia as the country of the Bukov and Su-25 manufacturer?
Ukraine, as an interested party, has no right to delegate anything to anyone.

[Altona]

In general, a familiar scenario, to create a reason for pressure on Russia with a rotten precedent.

[Vinsen]

Shot down the Binder plane?
OK!
There are a couple of questions:
1. What is the motive for the crime?
2. Murder weapon. BEECH was Ukrainian? What about the rocket?

[avg-mgn]

Quote: Vladimir61

Focused on the world community, and not on a meaningless excuse for the initiators and executors of the provocation.

And who gathers in front of you personally, or in front of the world community, and most importantly in what ??? Read the text of the conclusion, watch the video. If the Commission directly says that it is basing its conclusions "on the testimony of witnesses and information posted on social networks." I'd go witnesses, let them just pay me, such a scam ... So you don't even need to try to prove that black is white.

[Vladimir61]

Quote: avg-mgn

And who is going to face you personally, or before the world community, and most importantly what ???

Mulla Nasrudin, "taught" the donkey to read, but to reflect and evaluate what has been read is given only to a person!

[avg-mgn]

Quote: engineer74

"Buk" is a complex of radar, SDU, TZM and something else, a single SDU "BUK" is not! The report clearly says "BUK", and only the Armed Forces of Ukraine have complexes on the territory of Ukraine! It is pointless to carry a single SDU throughout the LPNR.

+ Paschet specially trained.

Who are you trying to explain? They are the kids !!!

[demotivator]

I watched the news about this report in the news, neighing. Not facts, but versions. An attempt to make some general conclusion based on them leads to a stupor.
If you believe the commission it turns out like this (exaggerated):
"We, that is, the commission, believe that the missile launcher was launched 7 km from Snezhnoye, which was controlled by the militia. Then Buk went to the Russian Federation across the entire ATO zone ..."
That is, it turns out like this: Putin shot down the liner and instead of immediately destroying the PU complex, i.e. hide the proof, he began to evacuate to the Russian Federation, through the zone of active hostilities, to get caught red-handed.
Cognitive dissonance is evident. And it also seems to me that the Netherlands are playing some tricky game. They sensed something and were pulling time, waiting for some events or outcomes. Took a visor from the Washington regional committee and voiced the desired version. The version with the air defense system riding through the floor of the Donbass where part of the road is controlled by the dill posts block is generally a masterpiece!
Only a Westerner with washed brain propaganda and complete inability to critical thinking can believe in such a version.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: demotivator

instead of immediately destroying the PU complex, i.e. hide the proof, he began to evacuate to the Russian Federation, through the zone of active hostilities, to get caught red-handed

This is the trouble!
I do not think that P personally allowed to give PU. Rather, someone in the hierarchy who is responsible for supply through the "Voentorg" made a very stupid decision to give the launchers "headless", and even with ammunition.
So these headless, not only did they screw up with the choice of the target and the defeat of the neutral civilian side, they also "lit up" the launchers on the way back, instead of taking them exclusively in the dark (and in the daytime they mask and defend themselves away from settlements) - everything was done in a stupid way, in violation of the elementary rules of relocation. It is clear that the installation cannot be hidden from satellite detection means - optical and radar, neither day nor night, not in cloudy conditions, but by conventional means, it would be impossible to capture and identify it.
This testifies to the degree of "military education" and "intelligence" in general among the organizers of the transfer. The old Soviet school of gouging.

The option of destroying the launchers on the spot is not real, it is not an ordinary tank or infantry fighting vehicle (they can also be identified after being blown up by a high-explosive mine or after a fire) there are too many numbers on the nodes, for identification and debris it is enough to determine the type of self-propelled vehicle. Even if you use up to 10 tons of explosives, if properly lined with explosives, then the launcher would still give a lot of fragments over a large area, by which it would be possible to determine the type of self-propelled machine.
Burn in oxygen or fluorine (no residue) - I think it’s not serious in that environment. It wouldn’t work quickly - it’s not so simple technically and such a heat source would attract reconnaissance satellites.

Special operations should be entrusted to people with the appropriate intelligence, training and education, not prone to panic.

As a result, instead of the image of "fighters against nationalism," the Republicans became war criminals overnight, and the Russian Federation suffered gigantic political losses of reputation - much more severe than with the destruction of the Korean Boeing air defense system in Soviet airspace in 1983.

[AdekvatNICK]

the main question is why they did not close the sky for civilians.

[avg-mgn]

Quote: Vinsen

2. Murder weapon. BEECH was Ukrainian? What about the rocket?

I unequivocally affirm - the Peruvian rocket. Enter sanctions rather !!!

[Vinsen]

Which countries of the planet Earth have SUCH rockets?

[avg-mgn]

Quote: AdekvatNICK

the main question is why they did not close the sky for civilians.

Because they didn’t close it because they were preparing a provocation, but the problem came out - it didn’t fall in Russia ...

[Vinsen]

Who cares where he fell ???
Who cares where the victim’s corpse was found? The main question is who is the killer.

[OLD FART]

Look for someone profitable .... Russia is definitely not! Remember what howl rose literally on the same day ... And then sanctions and, in fact, isolation, etc. This investigation will last forever until Waltzman is caught and someone else (unless they are removed ..)

[Vinsen]

The destruction of this particular aircraft of the Russian Federation is really not profitable.
In place of this plane there should have been ANOTHER plane, which at the same time was flying at the same altitude, with the same speed over the Donetsk region of Ukraine. It was a Russian plane. Imagine the reaction of the Russian Federation in the summer of 2014 to the Russian plane shot down by Ukraine. Nobody would conduct any investigations - they were shot down by the "Binderists" and they will pay for it! Noble fury, etc ...
A tragic accident prevented a great war.

[Vlad5307]

Quote: gray smeet

They will make a noise, the dregs will be raised and everything will subside .... then everything will be raised again at the next "necessary" moment - what about the continuation of the investigation until 2018?

That is why it was postponed until 2018 - they are preparing an "attack" for the presidential elections. And there is no need to wait for the truth from the regular liars - this will never happen, otherwise the money of the Yankes will be wasted!

[Moor]

Do you know the "dead" sea? So, Putin killed. Now, seriously. Imagine for a minute: there was a crime, a man was killed. There are two suspects: Uncle Vasya, who lives in a nearby yard and has a gun, and a policeman who was seen near the crime scene drunk and firing a pistol. An investigation is appointed, and the commission of inquiry includes ... this very policeman. Predict the result, especially if you consider that the rest of the investigators are friends of the suspect and Uncle Vasya, to put it mildly, dislike. The commission did not answer the main question: what the fuck? !!!! Fuck Uncle Vasya ... ugh, Russia (or the militia) shoot down this ill-fated plane. I foresee the question: why is this Ukraine. I must say right away that I do not believe in the version of the hunt for Putin's plane. But if I am not mistaken, it was during this period that battles took place in these areas, and the militiamen drove the soldiers of light into the tail and mane. And here - such "wealth" from the sky. Review reports from this period. The offensive ended immediately. Not to fight. True, this did not prevent the Ukrainian artillery from ironing out the crash site. But in the end, even all this is not so important. What is important is what is on our nose? No, not carnival. And on the nose we have elections in the United States, where one of the candidates is very fond of shouting that it is time to put Russia in its place, and the second, who, like Uncle Vasya, is also not very fond of, claims the opposite. And here's how to order: gum. convoy in Syria, now "expert conclusions" with "convincing evidence (again" accordion "with" Buk "two years ago). I will not be surprised at any other nasty things during September-October. Russia is a monster with which you can only talk from a position of strength. Therefore, the "skeleton" of the downed Boeing will continue to rattle bones for a long time. will provide irrefutable proof that Putin personally ran the Buk. But how did you want? The enemy must be kept in good shape so as not to relax.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: Moor

Putin killed. Now, seriously. Imagine for a moment: a crime happened, a man was killed. There are two suspects: Uncle Vasya, who lives in a neighboring courtyard and has a gun and a policeman, who was seen drunk and shooting with a pistol near the crime scene. An investigation is being appointed, and .... this very policeman is included in the commission of inquiry. Predict the result, especially when you consider that the rest of the investigators are friends of the suspect and Uncle Vasya, to put it mildly, they do not like. The commission did not answer the main question: to hell? !!!! To hell with Uncle Vasya ... ugh, Russia (or militias) to shoot down this unfortunate plane

Imagine the corollary:
on the basis of the conflict with the seizure of the site, Petro’s neighbor and Uncle Vasya scandalized, a corpse was found in the morning on the uncle Vasya’s site, in which the rifle was found ...
- Uncle Vasya swears that he never had a gun, but Volodya’s neighbor has a gun,
- the neighbors show a photo of how Uncle Vasya rushing with a gun from Volodya’s fence and a photo like that with a gun naughty from a hangover.
- Volodya’s neighbor is afraid that the gun is not his and Jacques is not his, that he removed the jacquards from service in 2011, and in general he didn’t give moonshine or a tractor to Uncle Vasya, but the guys who were swarming in Uncle Vasya’s garden were purely volunteers. And here’s Petro’s neighbor (face ...), not only did he illegally seize Uncle Vasya’s plot, insulted by felon Barak, who lives outside the river, but has guns and jacquards of the appropriate caliber.

-neighbor Petro yells that he would not smack at passers-by who walk through his site for money, but the drunkard and rowdy Uncle Vasya is still a "present". And that a couple of months before that, Volodya's neighbor "squeezed" his plot and shed where the zhakans remained, and since Uncle Vasya and Volodya are friends, it was Volodya who gave Uncle Vasya a gun and zhakans so that Uncle Vasya could shoot rooks who allegedly from Peter's site are shitting on Uncle Vasya's site ...

[Magua-xnumx]

And now it is in this aspect that we will return to airplanes similar in color to the Russian government, and the Su-25 from whose rifles are Jacques.
Also, the all-Ukrainian press howled and ached a week or two before that GDP is ... well, enemy number one, the source of all ills, and that who destroys it will be a hero (to whom glory) and will receive an award with a bonus.

[Vinsen]

From the ground, you can consider the colors of the liner, which goes at an altitude of 10 m? What about the face of the pilot?

[Magua-xnumx]

Through a strong telescope. But the pilot of the flying up Su-25 will see it without any problems. Also the country ending with "sia ..." which is few.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: Vinsen

From the ground, you can consider the colors of the liner, which goes at an altitude of 10 m? What about the face of the pilot?

It is possible to visually identify on a clear day, the type of aircraft at the level of 10000-11000 m and at a distance of 15 km without special devices.
At a distance of 30-40 km through optical binoculars with a magnification of 20-30.

Using radar, it was possible to indirectly determine the type of aircraft by its ground speed:
- about 900 km / h at the B-777
and 40% -50% lower for AN-26 - about 450-550 km / h,
in addition, the level of the AN-26 is much lower - 5000-7000 m. (ceiling 7300 m). The Boeing 777 has an echelon of the order of 10000.

Those. either the installation operator was not experienced, or he did not care where to naughty ...
In any case, this ram must be hung, at the same time as the one who gave permission to GIVE the rams such an installation.

[Magua-xnumx]

That is, the APU hit anyone. Does the blocker know the word "radio signature"? Operator Su-25 from 700-800 meters was either a bastard or an imbecile.

[HAM]

"WHAT WILL COMRADES FROM" STYLISH BEARS "SAY ???

[iouris]

The animation presented by the investigation team shows that the rocket flies up to the plane on the right, while Snezhnoye is on the left and the main defeats are inflicted on the left side of the plane (a receding missile). How shoud I understand this?

[iouris]

From the report it definitely follows only that Ukraine did not close airspace, and the authorized state bodies of the Netherlands and Malaysia, as well as ICAO, did not prohibit aircraft flying over the area where Ukrainian military planes were used and shot down. Recommendations are given for the future.
Everything else is a pitchfork on the water.

[Vinsen]

On what basis should airspace be closed? Based on the fact that there are fights on earth in which miners and combiners used MANPADS? Range of MANPADS maximum 5 m, liners go 000 m, what are you afraid of?

[Operator]

Judging by the official video of the Joint Investigation Team from the Netherlands, the main "evidence" of the downing of the Malaysian Boing-777 by the Russian Buk air defense system is:
- examination of fragments of a glider of an airplane with holes from a rocket explosion arriving on a collision course;
- Ukrainian interception of conversations on mobile phones, where the words "Buk", "SAM", "installation", etc. are never used;
- video and photos from mobile phones about the transportation of the air defense system on an autotrailer, a photo of a smoke trail in the sky.

And that’s all - neither the previously announced data from U.S. intelligence satellites about the flight of anti-aircraft missiles, nor the data of military and civil radars of Ukraine during this period of time.

Counterarguments of the Russian side:
- examination of the Almaz-Antey concern, which established the catch-up course of the missile that shot down the Boing-777;
- the lack of independent evidence of the reliability of the telephone interception of the Ukrainian side, which is one of the suspected parties;
- video and photos of the transportation of the Buk air defense missile system and the smoke trail in the sky are in no way connected with the downing of the Boing-777, except logically (that is, subjectively).

Therefore, we are waiting until the 2018 ode of announced satellite and radar data from the United States that is not (officially) a suspected party in the downing of a Malaysian aircraft.

If such data does not appear, then it will be necessary to recognize Ukraine as the guilty party, which was aware of the fact of the previous downing of a Ukrainian aircraft at an altitude of 6000 meters, but which, being responsible for the safety of flights over this territory, did not prohibit the flights of civilian aircraft of third countries at altitudes above 5000 meters.

[Magua-xnumx]

An examination of the Russian Air Force in Lipetsk has long established that the Boeing is accurately shot down by a cannon. Presumably the Su-25 attack aircraft.
According to the militia, it still had traces of laser-guided ATGMs that the Su-25 was also carrying.

The B-737 is not a supersonic armed bomber or a high-speed unarmed Concorde, so an attack aircraft can easily cope with such a target. Only the "cadet" Su-25Ks have a low altitude.
"Ukroboronservis" itself writes about the practical ceiling of its own, even export Su-25, at 10000 meters.

[Vinsen]

So ukrov has a super attack aircraft SU 25, which can fly at altitudes up to 10 m? What for? What tasks will he perform there?
Shoot down a plane from a cannon on a collision course ??? What is the speed of rapprochement between Boeing and SU shki?
And what is the motive for this atrocity?

[Magua-xnumx]

An ordinary attack aircraft. Even worse than average. A practical ceiling of 10000 for its export Su-25s is indicated by Ukroboronservis on its website.
He must fight there in the mountains, or fly on the plain from the airfield to the front line, at high speed and saving fuel.
The plane was shot down on a catch-up.
The motive is simple: so that what follows follows - to bring down by yourself, hang it on Russia, and arrange a high with sanctions.
American history and foreign policy all consist of such provocations.

[Magua-xnumx]

These are the ones that are exported.
http://ru.uos.ua/produktsiya/aviakosmicheskaya-te
hnika / 84-cy-25
for internal use, the practical ceiling is usually at 12500
there has always been a better opinion of living in Germany

[DimerVladimer]

Do not waste time on freaks - zero brains, only time to waste ...

[Magua-xnumx]

Are you talking to yourself?

[prior]

After the results of the "thorough" investigation were announced, there was a desire to green the Netherlands - to plant it tightly with "Poplar" and "Buk".

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: prior

After the results of the "thorough" investigation were announced, there was a desire to green the Netherlands - to plant it tightly with "Poplar" and "Buk".

Tazepamchik swallow - helps with paranoid exacerbations

[Magua-xnumx]

Dutch stubs also need to see a doctor, and take the bikes again, because they did not learn imperial traffic rules

[Sergelis]

What are the comments for?
"You are to blame for the fact that I want to eat"
I am sure that a brown-winged eagle with a brown bear can never cope. The bear will only wait when it is closer to its elongated paw.

[Altona]

Quote: Retvizan

There is nothing surprising in the "inclusion of Ukraine" in the commission. Ukraine also inherited from her, it is not yet clear what will happen.

------------------------
Retvizan, is it a Ukrainian tradition to pull an owl onto the globe? Ukraine is already to blame, because the crash of the aircraft took place on its territory, according to ICAO rules. Ukraine did not provide data from the Dnipropetrovsk dispatch point - dispatchers' negotiations with the crew and everything else, there is no objective control data. This cartoon, called a "report" cartoon and will remain. There is nothing in it except gossip from social networks and anonymous photos and videos. You kind of look at yourself sometimes, otherwise I look over the edge of your arrogance and ambition, but your little mind is not very good.

[Magua-xnumx]

here the Israelis come across a local depshiza which is busy with the same

[Altona]

Quote: iouris

The animation presented by the investigation team shows that the rocket flies up to the plane on the right, while Snezhnoye is on the left and the main defeats are inflicted on the left side of the plane (a receding missile). How shoud I understand this?

------------------------------
Yes, in no way to understand, there is such a profession "animator".

[Vinsen]

Like what? A plane that cannot be shot down from MANPADS (ceiling 4500 m).

[1536]

In the West, they did work on the mistakes of the Second World War. Now the attack on Russia is being prepared under the pretext of defending peace.

[Moor]

Toward the close one more question. Why should Russia give Buk militias? This does not mean purpose, but expediency. As I understand it, Buk is designed to deal with high-flying goals. But AFU used exclusively helicopters and attack aircraft, that is, not high-speed machines operating at low altitudes. I am wrong? So on horseradish to drag across the border a huge installation, which also requires all sorts of gadgets and experts. And it was not easier for Voentorg, which no one had seen, but everyone is talking about him forwarding a dozen boxes of MANPADS to Donbass ?! Or in the DPR decided to hunt for strategic bombers? As far as I remember the main losses, the Ukrainian Armed Forces aviation suffered precisely from MANPADS, so why change the flea. Aw, specialists, say your weighty word

[The leader of the Redskins]

And about the downed IL-79 with paratroopers on board in the Lugansk airport did not hear? And if you try to bring down the same. only in the upper echelons? What about the radio intelligence? either 26 or 32 - I am not good at them. There were enough goals then. And Mig 29 scared civilians with spans ...

[ural-ls]

The IL flew at the approach from the MANPADS or from the MIG border at all. The MIG flying at 10 kilometers is crap full and flights of military aircraft at levels where civilians are flying are forbidden. Airborne assault posed no danger to the militias and the APU had no strategists for everyone else enough MANPADS

[Mimoprohodil]

On June 6, 2014, an An-30B reconnaissance aircraft was shot down over Slavyansk (At an altitude of 4200-4050 meters). And on July 14, at a height of 6000 meters, the transport An-26 was shot down. And 2 MiG-29 shot down. And how would MANPADs help if planes were bombed from high altitude?

[Moor]

Is it official? Or again social networks? Especially with MiG interesting.

[Magua-xnumx]

The willow gets there, you don’t even have to climb higher on the poplar, or shoot from the rear hang glider or the Yak-18 aero club from the rear cockpit from the shoulder for a thousand and three, it’s more difficult and difficult to shoot down the air defense aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

[Vinsen]

To bring down an aircraft, inaccessible MANPADS.