The court in St. Petersburg rejected the claim for the dismantling of the board Mannerheim

The Smolninsky Court of St. Petersburg rejected the claim of Pavel Kuznetsov, a resident of the northern capital, against the city government. Pavel Kuznetsov asked the court to declare illegal the opening of a memorial plate in honor of Gustav Mannerheim. Recall that the discovery of this tablet caused a wide public response in Russia. The majority of citizens (data of sociological polls) were in favor of dismantling the tablet, since Mannerheim during the Second World War was engaged in aiding the Nazis and took an active part in the blockade of Leningrad.

The Smolninsky Court stated that the lawsuit was rejected due to the alleged inability to establish the involvement of the St. Petersburg authorities in the discovery of the scandalous tablet. Interfax leads the verdict of the judge Tatiana Matusiak:

The court ruled: to satisfy the claim on the recognition of the illegal decision to install the board and its subsequent dismantling refuse. It is not possible to recognize that the government (SPb) has committed the installation of the board. This is not established by actual circumstances.

It also became known that the Smolninsky court refused to call such people as Minister of Culture Vladimir Medinsky and deputy governor of St. Petersburg Alexander Govorunov as witnesses. Both of these officials attended the opening of the Mannerheim board in the northern capital.

It should be recalled that a few days after the opening of the tablet, the administration of the Central District of St. Petersburg sent a paper to the Committee on Culture stating that the event was illegal. However, despite this, the board of Mannerheim continues to be “defended” as a kind of “value” for the whole of Russia. The court decision is proof of that.

Comments

[dmi.pris1]

Anything can be brought under a legal lock. And with conscience how?

[Hunt]

There are no words! And besides the roads, there are still problems in Russia!

[uskrabut]

Fools in Russia have never been translated!

[dmi.pris1]

This is by no means fools, but people are smart and prudent .. The board is installed by order and until the customer permits or obliges him (which we see does not work) will hang. If the people themselves do not figure it out before.

[cniza]

This is a test ball, if you want a litmus test, let's hope sanity wins.

[SRC P-15]

But is it not a relative, this Manerheim, to some of those in power?

[Mahmut]

Fools in Russia have never been translated!

Moreover, according to opinion polls there are most of them.

[Bloodsucker]

The fact that in Russia it is the White Guards with an admixture of liberals rendering them services is understandable.
These White Guards were not born and did not become so as a result of historical development. In the above post, it was shown that they took such a political orientation purely pragmatically, by virtue of their original anti-Sovietism. They simply had nothing to rely on.
It’s not possible to monarchism, they destroyed the USSR, that is, simply put, Historical Russia. And who else almost ruined it in the 20th century? Those who later formed the backbone of the White Guard. Who didn’t finally give up the collapse? Correctly. Bolsheviks.
The political and economic principles of the White Guard are incompatible with the moral principles and moral foundations of the Russian people (and other peoples of Russia). For 25 years, White’s attempt to replay the civil war by other means obviously fails. Having not decided in due time (in October 1993) to carry out widespread repressions throughout the country with the aim of eradicating Soviet sentiments and intimidating the rest, or, more simply, terrorizing them, they are now faced with the fact that the majority of the population does not support their aspirations to conserve wild capitalism with the abolition of all social institutions left over from the USSR.
Sovietization is growing. And white, if they do not change their views and the society they created on a pro-Soviet one, it remains either to leave the government, making room for the non-Bolsheviks or to drag the state behind them into oblivion, bringing the bulk of the citizens to complete degradation.
Thus, whites in the paradigm in which they govern the country will sooner or later lead to their death. One thing is encouraging. There are clear signs that more than one Kurginyan understands where everything is going. He understood everything 20 years ago.
On the central TV channels I have repeatedly and repeatedly heard the words of repentance from former deputies of the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR and from intellectuals like Mikhalkov, who at one time torn a shirt for Yeltsin and from writers like Yuri Polyakov who wrote anti-Soviet books in the late USSR.
http://krasvremya.ru/pochemu-delo-vlastnyx-rossij
skix-belogvardejcev-beznadezhno /

[SMS]

In hell, I dumped everything in a heap!

[Cripple cross]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

The fact that in Russia it is the White Guards with an admixture of liberals providing them services is understandable

Wow wow wow ... how much porridge in one post. And the Communists and those white and these white. You completely turned everything into one lump. All times and eras in one boiler and under modern realities. You can of course analyze and need, but not make such a mess. The Communists of recent years, these are not the Bolsheviks who made the revolution, the White Guards and those who destroyed the USSR, are completely DIFFERENT people both in thinking and in aspiration. Brrrr .... sorry, but for me it’s like reading, it’s like hearing people say something like LIE, CARTET, and so on and so forth. Like a sickle for me ... m.

[Bloodsucker]

Are you a cook?
No?
Then you should not pull out a quote, at which the source is indicated, blame me, but in fact you cook the exact same porridge yourself, but in your own words, trying to look smart.
Cases show who is now closer to all of these whites, and they are judged by deeds.
http://krasvremya.ru/pochemu-delo-vlastnyx-rossij
skix-belogvardejcev-beznadezhno /
Forward and with a song to the author of the quote, prove to him how competent you are.

[asiat_61]

As you say "white", did not fight on the side of comrade Hitler. For example, Anton Ivanovich Denikin. Suspiciously quickly died, after the refusal to the Germans. And Stalin was afraid to take on the service of the former, tsarist officers. That is why they fought against Hitler, where necessary.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: asiat_61

As you say "white", did not fight on the side of comrade Hitler.

Wow! Was Krasnov and Shkuro red?

[Bayonet]

Wow! Was Krasnov and Shkuro red?

No, these were not red, Vlasov was red - a member of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks since 1930.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: The Bloodthirster

The political and economic principles of the White Guard are incompatible with the moral principles and moral foundations of the Russian people (and other peoples of Russia)

But can you list these very principles and with what particular principles are they not compatible ?!

Quote: The Bloodthirster

For 25 years, White’s attempt to replay the civil war by other means obviously fails.

civil war does not need to be replayed it needs to be ENDED.
unfortunately, then there were bastards from both the Reds and the Whites, but there were patriots from both sides, for whom Russia was everything, but they had different ideas about how Russia should be equipped, and both of them in some issues were mistaken, but this does not mean that everyone needs to be smeared with brown paint

[mishaia_23]

I do not want to be like our Baltic partners , but it would be worth a tablet to the commander - the fascist at least ... to pour mud or worse ...

[Alf]

I do not want to be like our Baltic partners, but it would be worth a tablet to the commander - the fascist, at least ... to pour mud or worse ...

Give it a try. There are probably already policemen standing there. Here the court will immediately establish who did what, why, with whose help. And accelerated paperwork will produce. And on TV they will show on all channels. And the shake-burry crowd rush.

[Bayonet]

Quote: mishaia_23

I do not want to be like our Baltic partners , but it would be worth a tablet to the commander - the fascist at least ... to pour mud or worse ...

No, you don’t look like the Balts - more like Svidomo, desires are similar

[alexmach]

If people themselves do not understand before.

Honestly, I’m surprised that she’s still hanging there? And at night no one thought of coming up to that board with a stepladder and sledgehammer?

[Thunderbolt]

and villains were added to fools

[Corporal Valera]

This is not a court decision, but a farce of pure water! Against this background, it is funny to hear the howling of the authorities about the revision of the results of World War II, about nationalism, which "raised its head" and that "Nobody is forgotten, nothing is forgotten!" Oh well...
PS And let Medinsky write another book "Myths about the rule of law". He's good at it. And the source of income is not bad.

[ava09]

They regard "conscience" as a commodity, like everything else. Therefore, it was sold a long time ago with varying degrees of profitability.

[uskrabut]

"The Smolninsky court said that the claim was rejected due to the alleged impossibility of establishing the involvement of the St. Petersburg authorities in the opening of the scandalous tablet."

We know who, we know when, we know that, but there is no evidence! Insanity grew stronger! Once again I was convinced that judges should be elected by citizens by direct vote.

[your1970]

Insanity grew stronger! Once again I was convinced that judges should be elected by citizens by direct vote.- Previous times, the population of Yeltsin chose .. In the courts you want Boriskov ?? Truly insanity ....

[Banishing liberoids]

If tomorrow in Leningrad someone hangs a sign proclaiming Adolf Hitler, then it will be impossible and unlawful to remove it because of the absence of a specific person or organization that hangs this sign ??? Madhouse resting !!!

[dmi.pris1]

But interestingly, we have a law prohibiting Nazi propaganda? As an accomplice of the Nazis let this Gustav down ..

[Alf]

As an accomplice of the Nazis let this Gustav down ..

It's not gonna go. They will say that after the 44th he changed his mind, reforged, rebuilt and became an ardent fighter against Nazism.

[Bath]

well, patients in 40 years from Moscow from the rostrum of Heil Aloizych! and Gaster in response to Zigazag

[Alex_59]

Cool. It is interesting, on the basis of such a court decision, to initiate a case of hooliganism or inciting hatred with a review of the outcome of the Second World War? After all, it turns out that if the St. Petersburg authorities were not involved in the installation of the board, then some people did it illegally. After all, it’s impossible for anyone to hang signs on municipal buildings without the permission of the St. Petersburg authorities? There are even portraits of suspects - put them on the wanted list.

[egor-kz]

There would be someone to do this, because how to sum up the situation under the "attempt to revise the results of the Second World War" - two fingers on the asphalt, for a normal lawyer, in my opinion.

[Alex_59]

Quote: egor-kz

There would be someone to do this, because how to sum up the situation under the "attempt to revise the results of the Second World War" - two fingers on the asphalt, for a normal lawyer, in my opinion.

Or vice versa, St. Petersburg residents can arrange trolling. Since plaques on houses without the knowledge of the SPB authorities can be sculpted - hang all the places around Mannerheim with plaques depicting Ivanov. With the text "Comrade Ivanov put up a plaque in honor of Mannerheim in this memorable place." And let the authorities of the St. Petersburg try to remove at least one - to overwhelm the courts with claims for illegal removal of the tablets, because there is a judicial precedent - by some unknown person, the hanging sign in honor of Mannerheim cannot be dismantled due to the fact that it was installed by some unknown person. And the law is one for everyone! Isn't it?

[Corsair]

Quote: Alex_59

"Comrade Ivanov put up a sign in honor of Mannerheim in this memorable place." And let the authorities of the St. Petersburg try to remove at least one - to overwhelm the courts with claims for illegal removal of the tablets, because there is a judicial precedent - by some unknown person, the hanging sign in honor of Mannerheim cannot be dismantled due to the fact that it was installed by some unknown person. And the law is one for everyone! Isn't it?

Need to try The main thing is to be in time before the arrival of the police, because I suppose the "sycophant" bureaucrats are guarding the sign behind the scenes, the government "cholovek" has hung it up, God forbid that something happens to her.

[the lord]

Yes, it is unlikely that even such a board will be so zealously policemen and maneuver. Surely there is plenty of time when you can even hang signs with the above text and image. There are Petersburgers here, a worthwhile idea, realize it!

[egor-kz]

Quote: Alex_59

it is unknown by whom the manner plate hung in honor of Mannerheim cannot be dismantled due to the fact that it was not known by whom it was installed.

Witty Colleague! But, again: there would be someone to do! And they will say so, because they ruined such a cool idea!

[reist2000]

A good idea. Will you do it?
Experience has shown that opposition campaigning in elections hangs for a couple of hours at best. We did not manage to organize.

[vladimirw]

It’s a shame, again the liberals won!

[Fitter65]

Here he went out onto the balcony expressed himself in obscene terms, but what about the rule of law ....

[AVV]

It was necessary to file a lawsuit not against the government of St. Petersburg, but against the minister of culture of the city, since he was at the opening of the board !!!

[poquello]

Quote: AVV

It was necessary to file a lawsuit not against the government of St. Petersburg, but against the minister of culture of the city, since he was at the opening of the board !!!

now this is closer to common reason, otherwise I read komenty - there’s so much foam, it’s not even a lawsuit, but a requirement to indicate the defendant for this lawsuit, if the plaintiff has not yet been indicated in court)), pariyeprst

[reist2000]

There was something like - "it is not within the competence of the court to determine the defendant."

[x.andvlad]

It also became known that the Smolninsky court refused to call such people as Minister of Culture Vladimir Medinsky and deputy governor of St. Petersburg Alexander Govorunov as witnesses. Both of these officials attended the opening of the Mannerheim board in the northern capital.
So there also Seryozha Ivanov spoke ardently, glorifying this "noble warrior".
Is judge an enemy of his career? In general, it is necessary to speak here not about legality, but about the moral side of things. If you really reached a dead end, then you could hold a referendum or a survey of residents of St. Petersburg (and wisely - this had to be done before the installation).
And in general, this whole story is similar to someone's personal initiative from high-ranking government officials who had not thought much before.

[Stas57]

guess who wrote this?
I’ll tell you more, on the third day, Armenchik Gasparyan, a writer, journalist and one of the leaders of the RVIO with a blue eye, said that he didn’t betray the king like KGEM ... well, and probably Vasya Pupkin came to Keller to campaign for the interim government ...

[reist2000]

"Is the judge the enemy of his career?"
The judge could not take another decision on the wording of the claim, as it was.

"In general, here we must talk not about legality, but about the moral side of the matter."
Judge decides by law. Politicians are responsible for the moral side.

"If we are completely at an impasse, then it was possible to hold a referendum or a poll of the residents of St. Petersburg (and according to the mind, this should have been done even before installation).
Yes.

"And in general, this whole story is similar to someone's personal initiative from high-ranking government officials who thought badly before that."
Yes. And now he does not know what to do with all this.

[akudr48]

Mannerheim strangled the Russians along with Hitler. He killed hundreds of thousands of Soviet citizens, residents of Leningrad. And do not lie that this Mannerheim stood on the Sestra River and did not cross it, as if not helping Hitler. He did not cross, because he could not; the Red Army did not allow it.
And for this, it turns out, a monument to him - the board was put up by new authorities who like to rename history. Right in Leningrad, to remember whose power is now and who is the boss in the house.

Medinsky will write another book about Russian patience, as is more modernly called now, about tolerance, using the example of the Mannerheim board. He showed that a Russian could be spit in the face, and there would be nothing for it. To do this, he built this board, having received good from the Kremlin, to please the Finns.

Will there be responsible people in St. Petersburg now to solve the problem with this board forever, without Medinsky and the city hall?

[wasjasibirjac]

maybe it’s just necessary .... knock, preferably KSU-16

[Old military officer]

And this is an independent court! And talking about conscience is a simple concussion. Continuation - see the TV series "Ukraine".

[Thunderbolt]

Recognizing that the government (JV) has taken steps to install the board is not possible. This is not established by actual circumstances.

But I established without getting down from the couch that the head of the presidential administration at that time, some citizen Ivanov with red cloves in his hands, was somehow involved in the sacrilegious moldings. Although he might have accidentally passed there, I won’t be surprised at such an explanation.

[mik0588]

The establishment of this filthy mark was an attempt to open the next Overton window as part of the task of leveling the Victory:
- set the board
- they get used to it, the guides talk about it
- gradually (very gradually) a mix of fascists and communists is being made
- the next generation already perceives both Mannerheim and the Leningrad defenders as a single whole and no longer understands why all kinds of Immortal regiments are needed, if there was just a war and some reptiles fell
- the next step is to delete Victory from the Russian basis
- in this way - the establishment of a filthy mark is a step towards the decomposition, destruction of the Russians (speaking Russian, I mean the whole of Russia, since for the west we are all Russians)

[mik0588]

And in Kerch, a monument to Peter Wrangel was unveiled. With the blessing of the Metropolitan of Theodosius and Kerch Plato, a place on the territory of the church of the Apostle Andrew the First-Called was chosen for the installation of the monument. The opening ceremony was attended by First Deputy Minister of Culture of the Russian Federation Vladimir Aristarkhov, head of the Kerch Union of Monarchists Gennady Grigoriev, rector of the church, Archpriest Nikolai Zinkov, doctor of economic sciences Ivan Rozinsky, parishioners, the press service of the Ministry of Culture reports. This time, Medinsky himself did not begin to get frightened, he sent his smaller laundry man. And the deputy pushed such a speech, shaw gurgled - the whole engine was burning with tears:
"Today we remember a great man, the one whose name should rightfully stand on a par with the outstanding military leaders of our history, together with Dmitry Donskoy, Alexander Nevsky and our other great military leaders ..."
Citizen Wrangel, who arrived in Crimea on english warship, for helping the Entente in the overthrow of the Bolsheviks, in fact promised the West to surrender the country to a complete and undivided external anal management right up to 1955. And more specifically:
a) the transfer to France of the right to operate all the railways of European Russia;
b) the transfer of France the right to levy customs and port duties in all ports of the Black and Azov Seas;
c) providing France with surplus bread in Ukraine and the Kuban region;
d) by providing France with 75% of oil and gasoline production;
d) transfer 1/4 of coal mined in the Donetsk region
Under the Russian ministries of finance, trade and industry, French financial and commercial offices will be established in the future ...

[Bloodsucker]

Well, one to one, monuments are now being erected to all WESTERN servants of the West, which means that another small people, who in the mass are not the ones that some thought of, always served anyone, but not to the interests of RUSSIA and the Russians, as a state-forming people, they always served WEST.
Consequently, any anti-adviser = Russophobe, with which I congratulate all admirers of mannerheim, red and other wrangels with Hitlers in addition.

[KBR109]

We go to the conclusions below. Long live the blockade of Leningrad and hundreds of thousands of victims ?? And the main ally of the heroic Mannerheim in addition ?? Somewhat does not fit the definitions of the Nuremberg Tribunal, but the decision of the anti-state Russian court is more important!

[wasjasibirjac]

"funny" judge - who put - I do not know and do not want to know. but let it hang, suddenly the owner will show up. maybe she, too, like the colonel ........

[Bloodsucker]

The surname is the judge did not voice?

[Lyubopyatov]

The Smolninsky court defended Mannerheim's board, Sobchak's widow was again appointed senator, and Joseph Kobzon declared Crimea an unbearable burden for Russia. I propose: a) dispossess Kobzon and send the freed funds to the budget of the Russian Federation, b) approve Sobchak's widow as "Ksyusha's mother" without financial support and without the right to attend Federation Council meetings; c) cut the Mannerheim plank and transfer it to the Mannerheim line in one of the concrete bunkers.

[Thompson]

Quote: warmth73

The bloodsucker, I understand that you have strong communist convictions and nostalgia for the Soviet era, but let's be honest to the end and admit that the whites fought for the ONE UNFILLED RUSSIA, and the communists whom you idolize, led by a burry dwarf from Switzerland, tearing the country apart and were ready to lay down under anyone who would guarantee the inviolability of their power. Fortunately for the Russian and other peoples of Russia, Germany, together with Austria-Hungary, lost the WWII.

What kind of indivisible thing is this and who fought there? Why are you talking nonsense? Each of them pulled a blanket over himself and at the same time caved in under anyone who financed and supplied it! What prevented them from uniting? And how did it happen that they lost ???
The dwarf is here only you and this is in relation to your mind! Who ripped the country? Who did they fall under? And who lost the WWII ??? Did you go through school in the hallway ???
I have not heard such nonsense for a long time.

[KVashentcev]

Exactly! Kolchak generally accepted American citizenship, i.e. actually changed the homeland!
In the Civil War, there were no rightists, although each had their own. This is well spelled out by Tolstoy in Walking through the Torments.
Historical characters must be judged by the totality, by the result of life, so to speak. I know General Karbyshev, who served in the Russian army and died without betraying the Fatherland (and not an individual character in power), Brusilov, many others, and Mannerheim did not show himself in imperial Russia - he’s an ordinary nobleman’s career, and you should remember him on a photo with a knight's iron cross, which he preferred to wear during World War II, when the Germans burned our people alive. He is not a Russian officer after etgo! Down with the board !!!

[Stas57]

It’s so indivisible and who fought there

Well, for the very one., Wherever he is the most intelligent and beautiful, he would become the supreme ruler, sovereign, president or someone else.

[Thompson]

And is it for us to discuss and condemn Ukrainians with their Bandera ???
Maybe it's time to see the same log in your own eye? And after all, we also silently watch from the side how new puffers, plyushkins, tyrants bend us ...

[surovts.valery]

Who are the judges?

Matusyak Tatyana Pavlovna
Court:
Smolninsky District Court of St. Petersburg
Position:
Deputy Chairman of the Court
Board:
Civil Judicial Board
Hours of operation:
Monday - Thursday: 9.00 - 18.00, Friday: 9.00 - 17.00, break: 13.00 - 14.00
Phone:
[phone]
Presidential Decree:
Decree of the President of the Russian Federation from 09.07.2005 N 785

Googled on the request "judge Tatyana Pavlovna Matusyak" came across a bunch of headers like:
- "The City Court in the cassation ruling recognized that the judge of the Smolninsky District Federal Court Tatyana Pavlovna Matusyak did not investigate ..."
- "IF THE JUDGE DOESN'T KNOW THE LAWS, THE POLICE DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THEM"
- "The applicants, who have expressed suspicions of the bias and bias of judge Tatyana Matusyak, wonder how the district court could ..."
- "" A judge is not a robot, but a person ": a press secretary of the Supreme Court commented on the issue of trust in the judiciary. ... Tatyana Pavlovna Matusyak"
etc., etc., in short, a judge with an ambiguous reputation.
But here I am interested in something else: any sane person understands that sooner or later this shameful epic with the "memorial plaque" to Mannerheim will end with an unambiguous result, this plaque will end up where it belongs - in the trash heap. And the St. Petersburg officials are well aware of this, but until there is a specific instruction from above, perhaps even from "himself," they will in every possible way evade making a concrete decision. The head of this judge, having received the claim, sent it to this person in the mantle for consideration, who would not hesitate to make the "necessary decision", justifying its correctness with legal casuistry. And then, in which case it will be possible to sacrifice her, like what to take from her, we have long "suspected her". Okay, the matter is in the blackboard (although not quite so, but in memory, conscience, dignity), and if in the fate of people?

[swan]

Here is a video with a lawyer filing the same lawsuit. There he explains in detail what the court is trying to move out and how they counteract this.

[Phosgene]

Well, if local authorities disowned the installation of this Russophobian board, then silently destroy it and EVERYTHING.

[Simpsonian]

Well, if it's installed without permission, can it be removed without permission? What will "her honor" Matusnyak answer if she is not Heilgitler, of course?
If the monument is standing illegally, or it was not installed by the government, then it is still on the territory of St. Petersburg under its control. Put a monument to one "Austrian artist" (not Picasso) ... and graze the people who come to dismantle it. Then I myself will come with a bucket and draw something on the bridge

[Simpsonian]

If at least the Finns or Mannerheim itself weren’t animals, then they could open a humanitarian corridor for the population of the city to go out and transport or transport the Soviet demilitarized forces through their territory to another territory controlled by the USSR (so as not to burden it with the maintenance of the Finns), but this was not done, so since when did they begin to open memorial plaques to such vampires?

[dumpy15]

This chop board protects. Who pays for it is unknown. Probably the descendants of the heroes of the Shutskor.

[reist2000]

Unfortunately, the law in the Russian Federation has a diverse application. However, a direct consequence of Mannerheim’s board was the installation of a tablet for Vysotsky on one of the sphinxes and a monument to Stalin in Surgut. Both that, and another without coordination.

[Gormenghast]

What's the problem? If the board is a draw, break it, and that’s it, by unidentified persons. Who installed is unknown, even if it is unknown who will break it.

In the purchase of non-ferrous metal (this is bronze, detective) it will look decent.

But seriously - it really is difficult to establish - who made it, who made the layout, who ordered and who paid.
And, in general, nothing can be installed on the facade of a house without the consent of the owner of the house. If the municipality is against - break. And if for - then to reveal it, and condemn.

[reist2000]

"by unidentified persons."
There are video cameras, security and a fairly prompt arrival of the police. It all depends on how much the police want to react / not react. Do you want to try being an "unidentified person"?

"But seriously - is it really difficult to establish - who cast, who made the layout, who ordered and who paid."
The official way is difficult. In general, the customer is known - RVIO. Then what to do?

[pts-m]

Yeah, the "patriots" were transferred in Russia if this happened in Cahland and there would be no pieces left from this board. Are we degrading? or become as tolerant as the gay people ?.

[dumpy15]

You are asking rhetorical questions. Where is your hammer? In Banderreich, by the way, "patriots" burn people alive.

[reist2000]

Option from 500 rubles or from 2 to 15 years according to the Criminal Code.
Take it?

[Gormenghast]

Interested citizens can come up with a large file and plan the board until the police show up. Let them write the protocol, but about "vandalism"it will be possible to speak when the victim will be declared; so it can be detected.

[No control]

Quote: dmi.pris

But interestingly, we have a law prohibiting Nazi propaganda? As an accomplice of the Nazis let this Gustav down ..

Is Mannerheim a Nazi criminal or their accomplice?

Criminal Code, Article 354.1. Nazism Rehabilitation
1. The denial of the facts established by the verdict of the International Military Tribunal for the trial and punishment of the main war criminals of the European Axis countries, the approval of the crimes established by the specified verdict, as well as the dissemination of knowingly false information about the activities of the USSR during the Second World War, committed publicly.

The text of the bill "On counteraction to Nazism"
Heroization of Nazi criminals and their accomplices - actions expressed in the following:
deliberate commission of public acts deliberately glorifying Nazi criminals and their accomplices, as well as crimes committed by them;
... including the assignment of their names to streets and squares, settlements and other geographical objects, enterprises, institutions and organizations.

[reist2000]

Unfortunately, Mannerheim was not convicted as a Nazi criminal. The lawsuit is extremely difficult to draw to this article, consulted. Many subtleties in the definitions.

[GEV67]

Well, that’s the result of the election of deputies! I hope no one will have questions what else to wait for us ...

[tomket]

In general, Mannerheim apparently materialized himself as a bas-relief on the wall, and Medinsky just came to see this "miracle". The power of Peter has nothing to do with it. We certainly love our president ..... But I would like to ask, after Serdyukov and Mannerheim, is he generally with the people, or on his own?

[ALEA IACTA EST]

It seems to be just a piece of bronze, but how much noise ...

[No control]

Quote: Oleg Zerkalo

Funny :)
I don’t understand one thing, I already laughed more than a month ago with this news as ...
and here it’s placed, like today’s - strange

News. 27.09.16/XNUMX/XNUMX, the Smolninsky court of St. Petersburg rejected the lawsuit of St. Petersburg Pavel Kuznetsov against the city government. A month ago, you laughed at something else.

[kit-kat]

Some pests are in our power. How to pick them up from there? Revolution is impossible - the third in 100 years, Russia can not stand it.

[swetlana1]

I do not quite understand the passion for this person ...
Mannerheim’s name is even engraved in the St. George Hall of the Kremlin. - You definitely think that power structures are stupid? )))
Well, well, they didn’t overlook and so on ...
Stalin gave an interesting assessment to Mannerheim. From the list of the main Finnish war criminals, Stalin crossed out Mannerheim with a red pencil and wrote: "Do not touch."
Do not you think that TWO completely different power structures are the same in their assessments?

The NATO Union was founded on April 4, 1949 in the United States. Then 12 countries became member states of NATO: the USA, Canada, Iceland, Great Britain, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Norway, Denmark, Italy and Portugal. But Finland - no ..
It seems to me that everything is not as simple as you reason ..

[the lord]

You see, fate can throw a person in diametrically opposite directions during life. This thing is understandable and no one will argue with it. Even at the very end of the war, the Finns still fought with the Deutsches, an indisputable fact, but what they did before that also remains. And the bloodshed in the 20s and their participation in the blockade of Leningrad. They have undoubtedly increased our losses and greatly. Stalin could delete Mannerheim from the list of war criminals, there could be agreements with the "allies", but it is more important that he was included there. And on his hands, no matter what he did, the blood of Leningraders remained forever. That is why this board is blasphemy, the lowest and the meanest. If only because no one finally needs this board.

[Stas57]

I do not quite understand the passion for this person.

svetlana? well then it’s clear)

Mannerheim’s name is even engraved in the St. George Hall of the Kremlin

Stalin ordered? Brezhnev?

Do you think power structures are stupid? )))

Well, of course there are individuals of this type, but the masses are not stupid people.

"Do not touch".

I’ll tell you a secret for some reason; the rest didn’t want to agree at all.

Do not you think that TWO completely different power structures are the same in their assessments?

and what, do we now hang a board for Judah? - After all, his 2 power system-the Roman and Jewish recognized extremely useful.
but you want. Guderian- Nuremberg may not be condemned, did a lot for our BTT, and most importantly the enemy, but not a traitor! and what. out in the cauldron and hang!

[swetlana1]

[quote = стас57] [quote] I do not quite understand the passion for the specified person. [/ quote] svetlana? well then it’s clear) - You can’t express your thoughts more clearly?)))
[quote] The name of Mannerheim is even engraved in the St. George Hall of the Kremlin [/ quote] Stalin ordered? Brezhnev?
It is not clear why you mentioned these identities? See above for thoughts)))
Awarding of prominent people of our country takes place in the St. George Hall. The name Mannerheim is on the lists of St. George Knights. And this does not shock anyone (from among the awarded, representatives of the press and power structures). I’ll clarify right away, the names of Judah, Guderian and others are not there))
And one moment. A representative of the presidential administration was present at the opening of the memorial plaque ... And what court would dare to challenge this event in this case? And if the court made such a decision (after S. Ivanov's "resignation"), then this decision does not contradict the opinion of the GDP. The question arises: who in this case is beneficial to discuss this controversial event)))

[Stas57]

you don’t understand, the country is already like RI not, there’s no reward, it’s not enough where and when it hung, if after that it participated in the destruction of people, our fellow citizens

[swetlana1]

Stas57 "He participated in the destruction of our fellow citizens."
And the Red Army in the Winter War that entered the territory of Finland fed Finnish soldiers with buns or something? The dead Finnish soldiers for fellow citizens of Finland are the same people as the dead Leningraders for us. But monuments to the fallen Soviet soldiers in the Winter War in Finland are being erected. But the board is impossible.
The same ideas as yours, unfortunately now in the countries of Eastern Europe and Ukraine, lead to the demolition of monuments to our fallen soldiers. And such reasoning can only lead to similar actions in Norway and Finland, too. Well, you’re right, you don’t see any clavas. All over the world they are just waiting for new stupid things from our country. There was a war, on the threshold of a third world war, and we are all trying to take revenge on the old, while formally the person is not a war criminal and did not allow this country to join NATO in 1949.

[your1970]

Svetlana
there is one more nuance - military ..
Three days after the installation of the board, the Finnish embassy began to bustle, they began to sharply discuss possible summit meetings. Considering that the Finns are lured / pushed into NATO - this could be sign for them: we can discuss even very controversial and complex issues, you should be friends with us, and not with NATO ...
I hope that no one will argue that Finland in NATO is already very, very dangerous for our entire North (including nuclear submarines !!) and the North-West ???

[Bloodsucker]

Quote: your1970

I hope that no one will argue that Finland in NATO is already very, very dangerous for our entire North (including nuclear submarines !!) and the North-West ???

Yes, this is not the best option.
But they used to do without hanging boards of any kind in a city where there are so many who died from this leader and his army? Plus, who didn’t count the indignation of the population, and this is clearly so won by those who are so stupid and clumsy in a way, allegedly, gives some kind of signals to the Finns?
Under the Union, the Finns, in their military component, were guided by the Union, including a complete ban on the flight of anything NATO towards the UNION, so there were leverage, but now, except for a stupid undertaking with a mannerheim board?

[your1970]

The levers were simple - loot. They were the only free countries that got freebies. For example, they got chips and boughs almost for free, exporting off-grade wood cost a penny at domestic prices. And they sold furniture from chipboard from that chip / substandard for decent money. And so on all positions. Now with such leverage, strain.
In1945, the IVS could slam them like a fly (see Japan with the millionth Kwantung Army) - however, he began to be friends actively instead .....
And by the way, frantic discussions are also a sign for the Finns: the population is against, we are against the will of the people, appreciate our efforts towards good neighborliness .. and it will be bad news if it is removed, then the Finns did not understand and we did not agree with them on NATO issues ... .

[Alexey RA]

Quote: swetlana1

Do you think power structures are stupid? )))

No. Well, how can one think so - everyone knows that power, like the Pope of Rome, is never mistaken.
But how then to deal with these lines of one of the participants in the opening of the board, Minister of Culture of the Russian Federation Mr. M ... Dinsky?

On August 1, 1941, the Finns reached the old Soviet-Finnish border near Leningrad, thereby closing the half-ring of the city’s blockade from the north. The blockade of Leningrad and the starvation of almost a million residents of the city became possible because the Finns closed their half of the ring.

It was not an accident. Mannerheim did not conceal that the existence of Finland as an independent state depended on relations with the Germans; he was friends with the Third Reich not for fear, but for conscience.

[free]

hammer them over and over until they’re removed!

[KVashentcev]

Since government bodies do not have any relation to this (as the court established), then anyone can tuck this muck .... .....

[Djuma-13]

Mudinsky Minister Mudinsky already lifted up the order ...

[Behind]

You give the Goering sign in Lipetsk! Directly at the Aviation Center!
He kind of studied there.
Etc. In places of "military glory", so to speak.

Here hopes "Okhvitsery Rossii" lit up. How about a withdrawal promotion? Or not sealed? So we'll fold! Truth?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Yes, to break this shit ... but ... Disgrace this devil served the Nazis !!!!

[razved]

Incomprehensible decisions are made on the boards. They put on someone’s whim without taking into account the opinions of people. Especially Manerheim in St. Petersburg. As if it weren’t his troops who were standing near Leningrad from the north, they were providing his blockade. The fact that he was a tsarist general does not mean at all that he needs to put a board in St. Petersburg.

[Stas57]

Quote: poquello

Do you know that at that time the Finns stood at the old borders, chopped off from them by the USSR into two Finnish

hahahahahah
what, right?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Stas57

hahahahahah
what, right?

This is how aliens from parallel realities scorch.

[stalkerwalker]

poquello,

Quote: poquello

I assumed the responsibilities of the Commander-in-Chief on the condition that we do not undertake an attack on Leningrad.
Mannerheim, 1941

The dates did not have long-range artifacts for shelling Leningrad.
The state of the Finnish army was also affected by the food crisis, it was trite with grub in Finland

In particular, before the start of the war, despite all the efforts of the Finnish government, he was not able to fully satisfy the country's need for grain, the deficit of which by June 1941 was 10% of the norm. There were problems with other products. In 1940, rationing was introduced in Finland for bread, butter, meat and milk, and in early 1941, eggs and fish. Of course, Finland’s entry into the war in 1941, which required the mobilization of very significant resources in a small state, negatively affected the already problematic food situation in the country. As a result of the mobilization of 16% of the population and, as a result, labor shortages, a significant part of the crop remained unharvested. In the winter of 1941/42, even the seed fund began to be used to cover grain shortages. However, even with this, the rate of delivery of bread in the rear was only 150–160 grams per person. At the front - 350 grams. At the same time, meat consumption decreased to 40% of the norm. In general, the food shortage in Finland in late 1941 - early 1942 amounted to 26%. In a letter to his son (Finnish envoy to Switzerland) dated December 19, 1941, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Finnish Parliament V. Vojonmaa described the situation with food in the country: “The food situation is rapidly deteriorating: milk is served only for coffee and a tablespoon in porridge, no oil at all. And they only promise bread in the near future ... If there weren’t herring casseroles [a kind of herring. - PS], I don’t know how we, and the majority of the population of Helsinki, would have lived. ” The food situation in Finland was noted in his memoirs by the liaison officer of the German command at the Finnish headquarters, infantry general V. Erfurt

Where to attack .... Mannerheim's army choked on a snatched piece.
Acts of the Finnish army in the occupied territory in 41-43 did not differ much from the atrocities of the Shutskor in Karelia in 1919-1922.
The biggest sadists on the territory of the occupied USSR were the Hungarians and Finnish volunteers in the Wehrmacht units. As well as the Bandera and Latvians, "forcibly drafted" into the SS-Waffen.

[swetlana1]

You forgot to list the Russians as well - and there were not one hundred thousand of them ... It seems to me that there is no need to "mold" a label by nationality. Why are thieves (of Russian nationality) better off who stole food ration cards, for example, in Leningrad?
Or why we lose sight of the "overseas partners" and the insolence that pushed Europe (and the USSR, including) into the meat grinder of World War II, when people were forced to change their appearance ............... ..............

[magician]

"Ivan is not remembering his kinship" is offensive, but this is us and our future. What will be the next monument? Vlasov? an innocent policeman killed by brutal partisans? to whom? Until when will we replace real heroes with those who betrayed their people? not the power, people and homeland!

[poquello]

Lance corporal Valera,
this novosayt is more crooked than the old one, I got sick of already perverting to answer,
my apologies some other time

[Al. Peresvet]

Mdaa. That Yeltsin center. This is a mannerheim board. It’s got all the same right. Yeltsin center-change name. Mannerheim board always peel off and put away.

[Ivan Ivanov]

He (the center) recently in Russia 24 PR in the transfer allegedly about startups. hell.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Monarchists pulled up, stubbornly pushing through the Wrangels-Mannerheim, are there really no decent heroes?

[Sakhalin.]

Difficult to comment. "Lieutenant general of the Russian army", well, but only on the blackboard you need to write a traitor. Then let the board hang.

[swetlana1]

You probably forgot that Finland was part of the Russian Empire until 1918. The people in this country remained in 1918. The general expressed (as best he could) the interests of this people and country. Whom did he betray in this case? Residents of the rest of the empire? So on this territory, a son used to fight against a father or a brother fought against a brother - everything was not easy ... And now it is difficult to figure out who was "guilty" .. Yes, and the reason for the start of the winter war is not so clear even in our time. And the Finnish authorities "threw" huge funds into the defensive structures ...
Let's imagine that our territory - the Kaliningrad region will be taken by NATO. And if we conquer it, then we will become traitors)))
We are told by emotions and pain for our country (and our ancestors). But is it right for us to express our opinion right now - we do not want to think.
We have a difficult relationship with Germany. So let's raise the question of the destruction of cemeteries of the Nazi soldiers - just the time to worsen relations))))

[Alexey RA]

Quote: swetlana1

You probably forgot that Finland was part of the Russian Empire until 1918. The people in this country remained in 1918. The general expressed (as he could) the interests of this people and country. Whom did he betray in this case?

Probably that "single and indivisible", to which he took the oath and from which he tried to tear pieces off in negotiations with Yudenich.
By the way, how does the training of the Finnish army in Germany at war with Russia look from the point of view of the Empire and the Republic? Or the entry into Finland of the German expeditionary force, with which Mannerheim actively collaborated? Or the Vyborg massacre?

Quote: swetlana1

We are told by emotions and pain for our country (and our ancestors). But is it right for us to express our opinion right now - we do not want to think.

Of course wrong! Let's exaggerate and prepare for the opening of other memorial plaques - Krasnov, Shkuro, Rosenberg.

[Sakhalin.]

I’ll simply say that your argument will not convince me, and I did not forget about joining the Russian Empire. He is a traitor!

[terminator978]

Yes, lovers of the White Guards bring a bunch of myths as facts, but the reality was completely different. How can we idolize those who fought against their own people and still offered the land intervention to the interventionists for help? Yes, among the whites there were decent people - who fought on the side of the people, just as on the side of the red there were ki robbing and killing people, for their own sake. But you, judging by your comments, do not belong to the descendants of decent whites, since you want the tablet to hang. I don’t understand the people of St. Petersburg why the people, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, sons and daughters of the blockade (and there is no doubt that part of the blockade was on Mannerheim) do not picket the city hall around the clock, write letters to the president, and in the end it’s not very difficult to find veterans and blockades and record a video message to the president and the government, about this indecency with a sign and then this abomination will be removed not very quickly, but instantly.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: swetlana1

Whom did he betray in this case?

he didn’t sell anyone, he just fought against us on Hitler’s side

[swetlana1]

We are just like in a kindergarten))) Let's put a photo of Stalin and put von Ribbentrop. And we write that Stalin (and others) are traitors, since they built their policies on the Alliance with Hitler. Adults)) they understand that this is politics (besides, we took part of a good territory from Finland)))

[Stas57]

We will place Stalin and von Ribbentrop.

Quote: swetlana1

We will place Stalin and von Ribbentrop.

are you surely light?
the head of state may receive the Minister of Foreign Affairs,

[swetlana1]

the answer was not impressive - a clogged phrase justifying everything.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

I’m not tired of writing nonsense ?!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Svetlana, you arrange a kindergarten, and if you DO NOT UNDERSTAND it, then apparently in the kindergarten

[reist2000]

“I don’t understand the Petersburg people at all, why people, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, sons and daughters of the blockade (and there is no doubt that part of the blockade was on Mannerheim) do not picket the city hall around the clock, do not write letters to the president,”

You can do it. The website of the Government of St. Petersburg, the Ministry of Defense and the President has an electronic reception.
Specific instructions - http://net-mannerheim.livejournal.com/1507.html?m
ode = reply # add_comment
If you write, there will be one more person. If you offer friends - a few. Spend 5 minutes of time, please. This applies not only to St. Petersburg, it applies to the whole country.

"Yes, in the end it is not very difficult to find veterans and blockades and record a video message to the president and the government, about this indecency with a sign, and then this abomination will not be removed very quickly, but instantly."

Tried - does not work. Need noise in the media.

[Yarik]

The court has a specific name. Was the author weak to name him?

[Thompson]

[quote = surovts.valery] And who are the judges?

[quote] Matusyak Tatyana Pavlovna

etc., etc., in short, a judge with an ambiguous reputation.
But here I am interested in something else: any sane person understands that sooner or later this shameful epic with the "memorial plaque" to Mannerheim will end with an unambiguous result, this plaque will end up where it belongs - in the trash heap. And the St. Petersburg officials are well aware of this, but until there is a specific instruction from above, perhaps even from "himself", they will in every possible way evade making a concrete decision. The head of this judge, having received the claim, sent it to this person in the mantle for consideration, who would not hesitate to take the "necessary decision", justifying its correctness with legal casuistry. And then, in which case it will be possible to sacrifice her, like what to take from her, we have long "suspected her". Okay, the matter is in the blackboard (although not quite so, but in memory, conscience, dignity), and if in the fate of people? [/ Quote]
Recently, Peter and Ekaterinburg have become hotbeds of anti-Sovietism and anti-Russianism

[Blondy]

Интересно - суд отклонил. А как же разжигание ненависти (к фашистам и родной власти) у российских граждан. Это же сплошной экстремизм.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

предлагаю не останавливаться на достигнутом, повесить мемориальные доски, Власову Шкуро, Краснову, а в Центре Питера поставить памятник "царю" володьке

[Reserve buildbat]

Теперь состав суда - на Курилы, строить ВПП, следующий состав собираем и проводим слушание. И кстати, как я понял, доску они отказываются снимать, так как ее повесило не правительство? Тогда на каком основании они смывают и закрашивают граффити на стенах? Это же тоже не правительство делало? Или как?

[Jurkovs]

Вообще то суду такие дела должны быть не подсудны. Что они рассмотрели? Только лишь соблюдение процедуры принятия решения городской властью.

[Gamer]

что вы хотите, белые у власти с 91 года

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

глупость глаголите

[swetlana1]

Поддерживаю, нет ни красных ни белых - есть мы россияне. И нас боятся штатовцы - поэтому мы в опале, выделяются большие средства на наше моральное разложение и натравливается прислуга в лице ЕС )))) Главное сейчас - это думать а не гоняться за отдельными мыслишками

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

разработчики будьте людьми сделайте так что бы кнопка "новые" не исчезала посл комментария, ну невозможно по человечески ресурсом пользоваться

[Sergey956]

Табличка Маннергейму - это хорошо! Теперь в Питере нужно поставить бюсты Власову, Бандере и Шикельгруберу. Будет полный комплект. Если никто мемориальную доску не цеплял, то кто это сделал и почему правительство С-Петербурга не может её снять?

[reist2000]

Оно якобы ищет собственника. Но неактивно. Законно ищет.

[rumatam]

кто бы сомневался, закон как дышло, для них.

[PValery53]

Ну это вообще - из ряда вон выходящий случай! Ни в какие ворота не укладывается! Чиновничье хулиганство.

[Hlavaty]

Я вообще не понимаю тех страданий, которые тут развели в комментариях.
На мой взгляд очень хорошее решение суда.
Просто надо уметь его применить в реальной жизни!!!

Что сказано в решении суда:

Признать, что правительство (СПб) совершило действия по установке доски, не представляется возможным.

Что это значит? То что доска установлена без ведома властей!
А значит она НЕЗАКОННАЯ!!!
И, если кто-нибудь из питерцев её демонтирует, то его никто не сможет привлечь к ответственности!
Он восстанавливал порядок, убирая незаконные доски!

Хочу напомнить старый партизанский лозунг: "Учитесь пользоваться оружием врага!"
Если бы партизаны не осваивали трофейное оружие, то и не было бы никакого партизанского движения.

В данном случае всё просто: власти открестились от этой доски. Она НИЧЬЯ и она НЕЗАКОННАЯ!
Если вы не диванные партизаны, то просто пойдите и снимите эту доску.

[reist2000]

Не работает - мнение полиции - при демонтаже будет повреждено здание. А это уже статья УК, от 2 до 15 в зависимости от мнения суда.

[tar9]

Может сразу Гитлеру доску повесить??? Они же вместе Ленинград блокировали!!! Милион умерших с голоду и на совести Маннергейма!!!