Is there a future for the aircraft industry of Ukraine?

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Is there a future for the aircraft industry of Ukraine?


The author would like this article to raise a discussion among professionals in Ukrainian society about the real state and future of the remains of this unique high-tech industry, which is still in Ukraine.



The aircraft manufacturing industry of Ukraine developed to the 2005 year, while in the position of general designer of the ASTC. OK. Antonov was Balabuev P.V. Up to this point, the new An-38, An-70, An-140, An-148 aircraft were developed, digital technologies and composite materials, and much more, were implemented.

Through the efforts of the general designer and his team of "specialists" and sycophants, and then the president of the state enterprise Antonov, Kiva DS the industry was turned into a workshop for the manufacture of a single aircraft for public relations and maintaining the "bread office". Many markets were lost, and the development of "new" aircraft was timed to change of government. For 10 years, only one An-148 modification of the An-158 aircraft that was actually introduced into production was created, which did not become successful, since did not engage in its promotion to the markets. With 2010, the An-148 aircraft is created on the basis of the An-178 aircraft, which, to put it mildly, has vague prospects due to the incompetence of its creators. At the same time, all the scarce budget resources were dragged over to Antonov, as was the lion’s share of repairing old aircraft, as a result of which the Kharkov aircraft factory teetered on the brink of bankruptcy, and after the modernization of the An-410 aircraft of the Air Force completed India, virtually no work. (See "Ups and downs. On the 32 anniversary of the creation of OKB OK Antonov").

In May-September 2014, the Government Yatsenyuk A.P. attempted to change the leadership of the state enterprise "Antonov" - instead of Kiva DS Merenkov S.V. was appointed. This, as it turned out, was the last chance that Antonov could be headed by a real professional. But Kivoy D.S. all possible funds were mobilized, the necessary monetary resources were “pulled up” and… the attempts of the Government were drowned in the courts and their own Ministry of Justice.

The fooled labor collective did not rejoice for long that they saved their leader, and at the same time themselves, because in June 2015 a new leading team of "temporary workers" came to Antonov DP, and even the "former" ones remained in their places, they immediately but moved away from all finances. First a new acting was appointed. President Gvozdev M.A., who has neither higher education, nor any relation to aviationwho told me the whole year that they would build up to 24 aircraft a year, that there were orders for 100 aircraft for 4 billion An-178 and others. But, probably, he had run out of fantasy, what else could be invented, and therefore he was replaced by A. Kotsyubu. This one took it right off the bat and didn’t get out of the TV, telling how they would complete the construction of the 2nd An-225 plane with the Chinese and build it in series in China, and how this unknown Hong Kong company would finance the construction An-178 and others.

After some time, when there will simply be nothing to lie, and the bubble with An-225 will burst, they will appoint a new leader, conventionally Molotkov, and he will forget the last nail in the coffin of the Ukrainian aviation industry.

Since it is impossible to reach the President of Ukraine (all letters and materials that the author sent to him are fooled by the Presidential Administration on instances), and all those responsible for the aviation industry (RNBO, Ukroboronprom, the Antonov State Enterprise Manual) lie to him and provide false information, It may be possible with the help of the media, the public or some not indifferent people in power to convey to the President what is really awaiting this industry in the near future.

But first I’ll go back a little.



An-70 aircraft. In the USSR, and then finally in Ukraine, together with Russia, this outstanding short-take-off and landing aircraft was created. Since it was created under the military doctrine of the USSR, in particular, for the conflict with NATO, after the collapse of which no one needed it. When at the beginning of 2000-years I talked about this plane with the chief engineer of the BTA RF, he said, "If there was money, we would buy 20 pieces for special operations, and the IL-76 plane solves all the problems." Nevertheless, the officials of Russia and Ukraine went to visit each other, organized banquets and signed papers on this plane, but in reality the plane was created by Balabuev, PV, mainly at his own expense. 5 aircraft ordered the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine and began to build them somewhere in the year 2003. It is worth noting that no one else in the world has built such a small number of aircraft. After the "Orange Revolution", when Balabuev left, and to the position of Acting General Designer appointed Kivu DS, I wrote a memo addressed to the President of Ukraine Yushchenko. They talked about the poor management of serial aircraft factories, that it is necessary to stop spending budget funds on the An-70 aircraft and freeze this project, and send the funds to the An-140 and An-148 series production. In addition, there were proposals on the organization of the Aviation Concern. When a memorandum with the resolution of the President came to the ASTC. Antonova, Kiva gathered a meeting of all the leaders and they tried to smudge me on the wall. But since I was sure that I was right, then apart from some attacks in my direction about “non-patriotism” and the type of “how could you” nothing happened. The most important thing that the director of the serial factory and the officials told me was: “Anatoly Grigorievich, what are you doing - this is“ living ”money!”. And, indeed, the money was "alive", several hundred million hryvnia flew in an unknown direction. In 2012, Kiva DS together with his patron Azarov N.Ya. solemnly rolled out naked fuselage!

The current "temporary worker" decided - not to disappear as good. Now they think what the completion of the second aircraft for the “museum of idiots” will result in.

In 2006, a strategic decision was made in Russia to launch the IL-76 aircraft in Ulyanovsk at the Aviastar plant (there was an order from China for 38 aircraft and it was necessary to update the BTA fleet, and Tashkent refused to share and transfer the TAPOiCH to UAC). Therefore, Russia was not going to build the An-70 plane, but only to imitate cooperation, signed papers with the Ukrainian leadership. However, intellectual rights were nevertheless divided between Ukraine and Russia as 50: 50, which now stops at the root all dreams of continuing with An-70 as a purely Ukrainian project.



An-124 aircraft. At the beginning of 2004, a letter from the management of Volga-Dnepr a / k was sent to the name of general designer Balabuev: “What are you outstanding, etc. and only under your leadership can the serial production of the modernized An-124 aircraft be revived. ” In short, we all agreed together to make a business plan for the restoration of serial production at Aviastar in cooperation between Russia and Ukraine. It turned out a weighty volume, where in addition to any husks (such as there are orders for 80 aircraft) there were real numbers. The price of the aircraft was about $ 130 million, the plant could only produce 2 aircraft per year, about $ 500 million needed to prepare and restore production, and the first aircraft will be built in 3 of the year based on the remaining airframe. But the most important figure was the following - the cost of the flight hour on these new aircraft was 1.7 times higher than on the An-124-100 aircraft, which are operated by airlines! In short, they thought it was tears. But after Kiva DS became the general designer. this “revival” was raised to the level of the Governments of 2 countries and promoted and signed papers on MAKS and what was lacking. And there was not the most important thing - solid orders! There were only letters from a / k "Volga-Dnepr", "Flight" and ASTC them. Antonov. I don’t remember, it seems in 2010, when Sergey Ivanov was the Deputy Prime Minister in Russia, the cost of the modernized aircraft named An-124-111, in case of resumption of its production, has increased to 300 million dollars. And now count: in the indicated airlines, the planes bought for $ 0-7 million are mainly used, and here you have to buy an aircraft for $ 300 million, which will not pay off in a century. So this epic “Revival of“ Ruslan ”ended!

And further! When already in Ulyanovsk an Aviastar IL-476 aircraft was launched into a series and the Tu-204 aircraft was being built simultaneously, very high-ranking officials of the Governments of Russia and Ukraine signed “papers” about production at the same plant of An-124 and An- 70. This level of stupidity was demonstrated on both sides by those who prepared these materials and those who signed them.

Actually, for what I gave these examples with An-70 and An-124. Instead of solving the real tasks of the industry in mass mass production, sales, modernization and organization of service maintenance of the An-140, An-74, An-148 and An-158 aircraft, the management of the Antonov state enterprise and the concern headed by Kiva D. WITH. 10 years was engaged, quite simply, complete garbage! Now the same is done by the new leadership of the SE Antonov and the industry!

And now let's stop at the others. news Ukrainian aircraft industry.

The state concern Ukroboronprom is ready to produce the Gorlitsa unmanned aerial system AN-BK-1 for the Armed Forces of Ukraine starting next year.



It can be seen with the naked eye that this is a model made of foam, wood, pipes, Chinese wheels from a hardware store. Maybe only the engine and propeller are real. Yes, the masters at the Antonov DP have not yet been transferred! But they don’t even understand what the glider is for drone - it's just like a body into a person, and most importantly, electronic and software stuffing in it, i.e. "brain"! They think that it's a blunder and they did it in one year. In Israel, the USA, Russia and others, for years and decades, special firms and institutes have been working on the “brains” for drones! Neither the customer (the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine) nor the developer (DP Antonov) has much experience, and even no idea how the “brains” of combat drones are created. At best, they will make a large free-flying aircraft model and pass it off as a combat drone. After all, it is impossible to check what they are doing, since both "saw" money from one "trough" - the budget of the Moscow Region.

Here is another example! A small privately owned Ukrainian company Softex Aero (Brovary, Kyiv region) 14 September 2016 announced the launch of the first flight of the light two-seat “high-speed” helicopter VV-2 developed and built by it.



So compare the "achievement" of the state giant GP "Antonov" and the achievement of a small private company!

In connection with the complete cessation of cooperation in the field of aircraft construction with Russia, the main market, as well as the supplier of materials and equipment, has been lost. Since A. Kotsyuba stated that by the middle of 2017, all the issues of replacing Russian materials and components will be resolved, I have questions on the following aircraft.



Aircraft An-148 and An-158. The real order is only from the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine on the 3 of the An-148 and 3 aircraft for Iraq (unlikely). At Antonov there are 2 An-148 and 3 An-158 almost ready-made gliders and they can be completed and filled with Western equipment, although this is expensive and very problematic. There are still 3 planes without a wing and it is very difficult to complete them without the participation of Russia. After this it is necessary to conduct serious flight tests. How to operate these 3 aircraft in MO? So what is next? In the wing, pressed panels are used which are made only in Russia (Verkhnyaya Salda). To switch to the new construction of rolled plates and molded profiles, you need to redesign the wing box. You can, of course, use thick (60 mm) rolled plates, but their strength and resource characteristics are worse than in pressed panels, which means that the structure must be strengthened. This will significantly increase the cost and complexity of manufacturing parts. For the manufacture of power frames, lowlands and brackets in Russia made stamps. If materials change, and abroad they differ from Russian ones, it means that it is necessary to carry out at least limited tests for strength and service life. In short, there are no orders, but for a series of several planes it is worth a lot of money to do such work. True, nobody considers budget money in the Ministry of Defense.



An-178 aircraft. When creating this aircraft, the most elementary requirements for the creation of aircraft were ignored (see. Aviation industry of Ukraine - imitation continues ”and“ Features of the national aviation industry of Ukraine ”). The reason for this is the personnel policy at the Antonov state enterprise. When a manager chooses his deputies not on a professional basis, but on the principle of “what if you wish.” In addition, he himself had not previously engaged in the creation of aircraft, as they say, from the centerline. As a result, we have the result there. They made a plane to replace the An-12, then they invented something else, and now they say that they created a plane to replace the European C-160 aircraft. True, Europeans do not know about it. In addition, in Europe, our own line of transport aircraft is commercially produced - C-295, C-212, M-28, СN-235, C-295, C-27J and A400М. Now the Europeans are looking at the newly created Brazilian military transport aircraft KS-390, which is significantly superior to the An-178. Although the aircraft was created from 2010 of the year, there was not a single order for it until the year of 2015. Only after the author wrote about this, they began frantically to look for them (see the above articles).

Bottom line: we have a problem plane and no orders. There is absolutely no confidence in the stories of the leaders of the state enterprise Antonov about the orders for Azerbaijan, since all that they say on 90% is not true. This can only be believed if the Azerbaijani side somehow officially confirms this. If we consider that it is necessary to change the suppliers of equipment and materials (pressed panels for the wing are made only in Russia), then these are very serious changes to the aircraft. I don’t know whether the producers of materials and equipment in the West will agree to develop something for an aircraft that does not have firm orders? I don’t want, as they say, to nakakat, but this plane is awaiting the fate of the second prototype An-70 - the prototype will carry Antonov’s leaders and their retinue to foreign exhibitions.



An-225 aircraft. In detail why the 2 aircraft will never be completed, I answered questions from the Vzglyad newspaper, and therefore I will not repeat. I wrote a letter to one deputy very close to the President, in which he told what was going on in the aircraft industry and asked him to show the letter to the President, and he sent it to Ukroboronprom. In this letter and the materials attached to it, the author, in particular, on the fingers told why building the 2 th plane An-225 and the 2 th plane An-70 is unrealistic and unnecessary. Here is an excerpt from the answer with the signature in. And.o. Director General A. Cherubimova: “... Relevance and relevance,“ get 2-x litax An-225 and An-70 ”, as you know, you know, you know, you know, because of your resources, and those who have grown, you and your family are idle and idle, i'm like you, i'm like you, you’ll be For the President of Ukraine and for the sake of this, it was given to the adjunct to the various organizations, just to the competence and to the relevant information, to the Vikonati of the necessary rokrahunki. The remaining solution is one hundred percent dots_lnost_ virobnitstva znachsennikh l_tak_v vsevidi bude priymatisya with powerful core organs of power on the podstavі dostovіrnoi Іnformatsіі ... ". Where a professional takes only a few minutes to determine the unreality of these projects, the so-called. "Specialists" so-called. “Interim organizations” will spend tens of millions of hryvnias in order to drive around half the world in search of the necessary equipment and determine its value. Apparently for the sake of it all was started!

What remains in the bottom line:

-Create an unnecessary "combat" aircraft and complete the construction of X-NUMX-x An-3 aircraft with Western equipment in order to "bury and cut" the MO's;

-Creation and production of a very necessary combat drone (will it be possible and when combat is a very big question);

-Create an AN-132. (In the design of the caisson of the central part of the wing, extruded panels from Russia are used. The same problem as the An-148, An-158 and An-178 aircraft. It can be solved - only by designing a new center section).

There is no serial production of aircraft in Ukraine.

PS I, of course, can be wrong, although I have a lot of experience in creating, testing and operating various An-brand aircraft. Therefore, I ask professionals and experts (not only single-cell propagandists from the Antonov State Enterprise) to join this discussion in order to determine what Ukraine’s aviation industry expects and develop its proposals for presentation (I don’t know how) to the President of Ukraine on its preservation.

1976-1982 - Head of the division for the creation of new alloys and semi-finished products for the An-124;

1982-1985 - Leading designer in the service of the aircraft An-70;

1985-1989 - Leading designer on the aircraft An-225 "Mriya", head of service of leading designers;

1989-2006 - deputy Chief Designer for An-218, An-124, An-124-100, An-225, An-325 and their modifications, as well as aerospace systems.
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  1. +6
    27 September 2016 06: 11
    Unlike our cheer patriots, I believe that the aviation industry of Ukraine still has a future. Naturally, the industry will not develop as it did in the USSR, at first there will be single orders. For anyone, they will have to have a modern military aviation fleet, which is production, maintenance, repair .
    1. +14
      27 September 2016 06: 16
      And let's see if Ukraine will have a future?
      1. +4
        27 September 2016 06: 30
        And where will it go? What do you think will disappear into tartarars, we have gone through such a situation (without ardent nationalism, of course) and nothing lives on.
        1. FID
          +3
          27 September 2016 08: 25
          [quote] [/ quote] And where will it go? What do you think will disappear into tartarar, we have gone through such a situation (without ardent nationalism, of course) and nothing lives on.
          Excuse me, who were you and what situation did you go through?
          1. +5
            27 September 2016 10: 49
            Look at the profile. I was born in Smolensk, I live in the Kuban ... And about the situation .. And that our industry did not collapse under the baseboard, coffins from the North Caucasus would not come? The country was on the verge of collapse, the drunk endowed everyone with sovereignty .. That's such situation, although maybe you didn’t go through it ..
            1. 0
              29 September 2016 14: 25
              The author, unlike most, is not a couch analyst / specialist / warrior, etc., but really not the last person in Antonov's design bureau and has the right to affirmations and his own weighty point of view.
              Based on just this + logic, I perceive the article as a fact and I will not even argue whether he is right or not, especially since the logic is not backed up anywhere.
              On my own, I note that, unfortunately, in Ukraine there is really a full-blown turmoil (by the way, they survived parallel to us, again got into an adult) and that is the most annoying, they are practically in external control, and the one who controls if he doesn’t hold Ukraine in fact a strategic partner, and in the role of Moska (no offense, I'm not talking about people), who should be on a short haul and obediently bark in a strictly specified direction (wag her tail with her high tail in the opposite direction).
              So, while Moska barks, the bones from her bowl left by her from the times of the USSR disappear, and for some reason new ones are much smaller and not so tasty.
              In general, Ukraine will certainly remain, but in what state is the big question. Unfortunately.
        2. +2
          27 September 2016 08: 43
          I will answer the words of O. Bender: "The financial hole is the deepest, you can fall into it all your life but never reach the bottom." Does this situation remind you of any country? What the hell is the industry if there is no money for elementary money?
    2. +10
      27 September 2016 06: 53
      Unlike our cheer patriots, I believe that the aviation industry of Ukraine still has a future. Naturally, the industry will not develop as it did in the USSR, at first there will be single orders. For any of them they will have to have a modern military aviation fleet, which is production, maintenance, repair


      they need to have a fleet, but it will be cheaper to buy used American planes (as most countries do) than to drag a huge unprofitable concern with incredibly expensive SINGLE planes ....
      1. FID
        +5
        27 September 2016 08: 26
        "single orders" KILL the aviation industry!
    3. +8
      27 September 2016 07: 50
      "They will have to have a fleet of modern combat aircraft - and this is production, maintenance, repair."

      A bunch of recent countries have a fleet of modern combat aircraft, without their own aviation industry. But to argue today what the future of the Ukrainian aviation industry is, it’s the same as to guess what winter will be, snowy or not. The future can be any, there is a reserve, it can be developed, it can also be prokukat.
      1. avt
        +8
        27 September 2016 08: 27
        dmi.pris Today, 06:11 am New
        Unlike our cheer patriots, I believe that the aviation industry of Ukraine still has a future ...... For any they will have to have a fleet of modern combat aircraft, which is production, maintenance, repair ..
        request This is to a practicing specialist fool , especially in terms of docking military aircraft with a specific ex-Soviet aviation industry in Ukraine, which did not produce BATTLE airplanes ..... in the sense of completely .... well, in general. So hurry up with an operation to remove Svidomo brain. Svidomtom it is - you can’t remove it surgically, it will grow and objective reality will never be allowed into the brain. But it is possible to live without objective reality - to ride.
        1. FID
          +5
          27 September 2016 08: 45
          Excuse me, but he is definitely a "practicing, profile specialist"? Ah, then I am too free to address ...
          1. avt
            +4
            27 September 2016 09: 18
            SSI Today, 08:45 ↑
            Excuse me, but he is definitely a "practicing, profile specialist"?
            No-ee-ee! This is for him. On the subject of relief of inflammation of the Svidomo attack caused by the 4th phase of the moon .. to a specialist wassat laughing
        2. +7
          27 September 2016 13: 24
          Let’s not make each other’s diagnoses. Moreover, urapatriotism has not gone a little further from Svidomo. Let’s still be realistic. Two years later they’ll wait for everything to freeze and become there. You’re probably one of those .. So this is a kind of Svidomo ..
          1. avt
            0
            27 September 2016 14: 57
            Quote: dmi.pris
            Moreover, urapatriotism has not much further gone from Svidomo.

            Quote: Oleg Mirror
            A good comment, but still requires some correction: Svidomo - this word in translation means wisdom, knowledge, understanding - in general, characterizes a person from a very good side. The closest concept in Russian to "Svidomo" is "knowledgeable"
            therefore, the opposition of urapatriotism and Svidomo is somehow inappropriate

            laughing
            Why, without fear of sin,
            Does the cuckoo praise the Rooster?
            For praising the Cuckoo.
            Author: I. A. Krylov
            laughing Maybe for the greater, Svidomo, in order to reach the Russian
            Quote: Oleg Mirror
            concept in Russian to "Svidomo" - "knowledgeable"

            Read something directly from the representatives of "Antonov"? Well, in terms of the number of new ukroaeroplanov issued in 2016? By the way, mastered serially in Russia. I'm not talking about the epic in the "fat years" for the An-7X.
    4. +9
      27 September 2016 08: 05
      Unlike our cheer patriots, I believe that the aviation industry of Ukraine still has a future. Naturally, the industry will not develop as it did in the USSR, at first there will be single orders. For anyone, they will have to have a modern military aviation fleet, which is production, maintenance, repair .
      Ukraine has the potential to create its own independent aviation industry. But only in certain narrow niches - transport aircraft of light and heavy class, passenger regional airliners. They cannot do the rest and cannot learn. Rather, it is a matter of money and time. If you pour billions of dollars into Antonov within 20-30 years, then you can probably make your own 5th generation fighter, but during this time everyone will go far ahead. So it's not real. Then the question arises: can Ukraine keep at least what it has - transport and passenger aircraft construction? Aircraft such as An-178 and An-70 are needed only by the military, in civilian life everyone uses pumpless transporters sharpened for containers - this is cheaper. The An-178 market is very narrow. NATO and the Russian Federation will no longer buy these aircraft. Remaining very poor third world countries and Ukraine itself, which means small-scale production. As a result, it is unprofitable. An-124 was produced only in the Russian Federation, they themselves will not make it, tk. it's easier to create a new plane from scratch. An-225 is not needed by anyone - there is no such cargo on planet Earth. Only the passenger An-148 and An-140 remain. But the problems are the same. Serious western airlines won't buy a pig in a poke - it's easier for them to work with Embraer and Bombardier. Those have a well-developed service network, leasing, logistics. Russian Federation will not buy now either. Who will buy? India? Iraq? Do they have a lot of money? Again small-scale and unprofitable.
      The aviation industry of Ukraine can only survive as part of the Russian aviation industry. But we don’t really need it either.
      1. avt
        +2
        27 September 2016 08: 35
        Alex_59Ukraine has the potential to create its own independent aviation industry. But only in certain narrow niches - light and heavy class transport aircraft, regional passenger liners. They do not know everything else and cannot learn.
        Well, rather, the potential WAS, again, the factories built in the USSR for servicing combat vehicles ...... manufactured in Russia by Russian design bureaus constructed by .And didn’t mention. Ukraviaprom WAS needed only in Russia in the cooperation of production. And the fact that the general people will finish it, to anyone, except for those infected with the Svidomo of the brain, it became completely clear AFTER the epic with An-7X. Well, an attempt, and with the deployment of part of the production from and in Germany, to enter the market for the air bus in Europe.
      2. +2
        27 September 2016 10: 14
        Alex_59
        The aviation industry of Ukraine can only survive as part of the Russian aviation industry. But we don’t really need it either.

        I agree with you! But do not forget about the compassion of Russia!
        A new president will come, start what to do there, cry to Putin in a vest .... Russia will forgive debts and buy unnecessary ...... not in the first.
      3. +2
        27 September 2016 21: 55
        Excuse me, but what markets does Russia supply domestic aircraft to? In the "mattress"? "urop"? The same countries in Asia, Africa. And, basically, "at the old addresses". Although they sometimes fail - India is an example of this.
        1. 0
          28 September 2016 02: 52
          you don’t know that our new planes are already working in northern america iceland asia?
        2. 0
          28 September 2016 06: 36
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Excuse me, but what markets does Russia supply domestic aircraft to? In the "mattress"? "urop"? The same countries in Asia, Africa. And, basically, "at the old addresses". Although they sometimes fail - India is an example of this.

          Well, who says everything is fine with us? No, there are difficulties too. But still, unlike the Ukrainians, there is some positive reputation and our market is wider. And besides Asia and Africa, there are examples of sales to developed countries. Ka-27 / 32 for example are sold very widely, they were bought or bought by South Korea (63 helicopter), Canada, Turkey, Greece, Spain, Portugal and even Japan (1 helicopter). Well, so our main buyer is very solvent China.
    5. +2
      27 September 2016 08: 47
      dmi.pris
      Unlike our cheers, I believe that the aviation industry of Ukraine still has a future

      Support!
      If you remove all the ha ha and heh hee and talk about stupidity.
      I think that everyone who is set up for creation and development has a future.
      What is happening in Ukraine today is undeniably an act of destruction. But this does not mean that there were no people left who received Soviet education and upbringing. And this means that Ukraine has potential. It’s just that nobody needs him today, because there is still something to steal, and accordingly, those who steal are in power.
      So the time of creation has not yet come. But it will be!
      hi
      1. 0
        27 September 2016 09: 21
        So the time of creation has not yet come. But it will be!
        When there will be no stone on stone? Well, well ... Let's see. Those aircraft that Ukraine has are the result of deep cooperation with the Russian Federation. Half of the components are produced in the Russian Federation. They refuse to cooperate with the Russian Federation. Which exit? The layman thinks that you can just take and replace the accessories with Western ones - but figs there! There are completely different standards. You just can’t replace it, you have to redesign the whole plane. Then certify. Who will pay for it? It’s easier to throw all this into scrap metal and go along the GSS path, immediately creating a new aircraft by Western standards. But again, this is a lot of money and time. Therefore, Ukrainians have two ways - either to quickly put up with Russia, or to give up everything that exists and try to start from scratch in cooperation with the West. Just keep in mind that in the West there are no benefactors - they need income. They must be convinced that such cooperation is promising. There is nothing impossible in this - let them try if they want. But it will not be the aviation industry that it is today, in fact it will be something completely new, without these An-70 / 178 / 148 / 124.
      2. avt
        0
        27 September 2016 09: 25
        Support!
        If you remove all the ha ha and heh hee and talk about stupidity.
        I think that everyone who is set for creation and development has a future ....
        ,, Long live Peace in the whole World! A wider step, comrades, on the way to the victory of the cause of peace and communism! "What else? A -" Metallurgists! Your strength is in your swimming trunks! "
        But this does not mean that there were no people left who received Soviet education and upbringing. And this means that Ukraine has potential.
        "Long live reason, may insanity perish !?" wassat recourse This campaign ... like shamanism reminds. Here are just a virtual tambourine is not enough. And so - it’s completely nothing to myself, I especially liked the brat! laughing good
        So the time of creation has not yet come. But it will be!
        Well, a variation on the theme "Boomer" - "We are not like that, the time is like that." Well, of course you can.
    6. 0
      27 September 2016 09: 08
      Quote: dmi.pris
      Unlike our cheers, I believe that the aviation industry of Ukraine still has a future.

      Even if Ukraine begins to build airplanes with some titanic super-efforts, to whom will it be able to sell them? In addition, entire regions fall off from Ukraine itself and it’s ridiculous to discuss the prospects of the aircraft industry ...
    7. +1
      27 September 2016 10: 41
      And where does the "hurray-patriots"? Have you read the article?
      1. avt
        +1
        27 September 2016 10: 48
        ultra Today, 10:41 ↑ New
        And where does the "hurray-patriots"? Have you read the article?
        Why would he read the article? I will even declare to the public of the current head, Antonov, that in 2016 they made ... NOT ONE airplane. This is even if there is a backlog of cooperation with Russia. The main thing is that he has Svidomo's FAITH! Belief that everything will be HARASHO, everything will be harasho, everything will be harasho, he knows that. He knows everything. wassat
    8. 0
      27 September 2016 21: 55
      Naturally, the industry will not develop as it did in the USSR, in the beginning there will be single orders.


      If there is no series, then no one will need any aircraft because of its cost, it is cheaper to buy.
    9. 0
      27 September 2016 22: 41
      Quote: dmi.pris
      Unlike our cheer patriots, I believe that the aviation industry of Ukraine still has a future. Naturally, the industry will not develop as it did in the USSR, at first there will be single orders. For anyone, they will have to have a modern military aviation fleet, which is production, maintenance, repair .

      An interesting thought, but the paradox of reality lies in the fact that, having come to power, our "partners" first of all cut our high-tech production facilities. Our civil aviation industry can still give birth to only a few.
      And why can Ukraine have prospects in aviation in a similar situation ???
      They do not have air production and unfortunately ended forever!
    10. +1
      27 September 2016 22: 56
      There is no future. The collapse of the industry does not happen by itself, but on direct instructions from Kiev and abroad. After the Maidan, the first decree of the new "government" is about the prohibition of Motor Sich to supply engines to Russia, which is 80% of the plant's production. If Ukraine aspires to the European Union, then airplanes are made there in Airbus, and aircraft engines on Rolls-Royce, and Ukraine with its aviation industry, was shown its place. And her place in the European Union turned out to be near pa.ra.shi.
    11. 0
      29 September 2016 14: 35
      Of course you have to. For this, the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense will buy old "Hercules" or something like that.
  2. +9
    27 September 2016 06: 52
    Is there a future for Ukraine’s aircraft industry? And who cares? Let them discuss it on their websites, we don’t understand where, in military aviation some modernization of new things with Gulkin’s nose has been done by all the cursed communists of the aircraft before the fig, countries have been 25 years old no, but more than half of the fleet was produced there. And civilian aviation flies almost all on Boeing.
  3. +2
    27 September 2016 07: 26
    Kozma Prutkov was right: "A specialist is like a gumboil - his completeness is one-sided."
    The state is dying, what are the "Ukrainian" prospects?
    The body is in clinical death, and the finger talks about the prospect ...
    1. FID
      +2
      27 September 2016 08: 30
      I beg your pardon, but this is Kuzma Prutkov, not "Kosma Prutkov" ... "Kuzma ..." is somewhat later, but you are absolutely right!
  4. +1
    27 September 2016 07: 46
    Ukropov aviation industry, like the rest of Ukraine, will fall apart.
  5. +3
    27 September 2016 07: 55
    The Samara Aviation Plant "flew" big because of the events in Ukraine. Before the Maidan, all hope was for the production of An-140. But the supply of wings and motors from Ukraine was interrupted and now only the capital of bombers and Tu-154 remained, and even debts. In the Soviet aviation industry (without pathos), the plant is turning into a medium-sized ARZ. We wanted to launch the IL-114, but this time and investments are considerable in preparation for production, therefore ARZ and reductions. And you say UKRAINE. It crashed there, but echoed on the Volga. The last threads connecting us with the Dnieper are being torn down. And the junta is more alive than all living things, although it is buried in every article. Therefore, I am not happy about their failures. Only a narrow-minded person does not understand that their troubles are responding to us ...
    1. FID
      +5
      27 September 2016 08: 41
      I understand you very well, but the owner of your plant, a certain Deripaska, initially had no intention of building airplanes. His goal is aluminum ... He took everything he could from the plant, divided your plant into CJSC, LLC, etc. ... AND WAS NOT GOING to build airplanes, I can give a grudge, I beg your pardon, but at the end 90s, early 2000s, I visited KuAZ ...
      1. 0
        27 September 2016 13: 47
        The funniest thing about this detective is that the Samara Metallurgical Plant now belongs to the Americans, although, according to the Soviet idea, it had to satisfy the serious appetites of Soviet aircraft assembly plants and space-related factories at full capacity. .
  6. PKK
    0
    27 September 2016 08: 12
    The main factor is the thieves who drag away the enterprise for scrap. And no matter how much investments are planned, everything will be useless, machines, lines, equipment stolen.
  7. 0
    27 September 2016 08: 50
    Well, for such an An-70 needed in the troops, for selling the documentation on it to Airbus, for undermining the country's defense capabilities, there is no forgiveness to them.
    1. +1
      27 September 2016 09: 13
      Well, here’s the one for the An-70
      He is not needed in the army. He does not transport a full-time unit of the Airborne Forces, like IL-76. And to replace the An-12 workhorse is too large and expensive.
      1. avt
        +2
        27 September 2016 12: 07
        Alex_59 Today, 09:13 ↑
        Well, for such an An-70, which is needed in the troops, It is not needed in the troops. It does not transport a full-time airborne unit like the Il-76. And to replace the An-12 workhorse is too large and expensive.
        BEGINNING FROM THE END - "EXPENSIVE" is treated with a large series and specialized law enforcement agencies, well, if they really monitor for corruption schemes. "Too large" - so in general, in the USSR, pedal suckers ordered equipment, but "for growth", under the dimensions of the next generation of technology being designed, under the entire range. Well, about "unnecessary it in the troops" - Which and whose? wassat In the USSR, in general, transport airplanes in the VTA worked for the needs of the WHOLE Army (including the Strategic Missile Forces, naturally, with their large-sized facilities) and the Navy. So the fact that the An-70 was not brought to serial production in Russia with the purchase of documentation from Antonov ", it is not a peremogue, for the VTA RF. It would have been very much demanded in transportation and competition for the device under the project" Ermak ", but would have taken the place of the IL-76 with its smaller cargo compartment. BUT! We have what we have and we are waiting for Il214 and Ermak
        1. +1
          27 September 2016 12: 54
          Quote: avt
          In our USSR, in general, transport airplanes in the BTA worked for the needs of the WHOLE Army (including the Strategic Missile Forces, naturally with their large-sized facilities) and the Navy.

          61-I VA which contains 90% of all IL-76 solves problems primarily in the interests of the Airborne Forces, and only then everything else. In the 2009 year in the 61-th VA there were about 215 Il-76 and only 16 An-12. An-70 cannot replace the Il-76 in the first place because the main airborne aircraft must take on board an airborne platoon, and this is the 3 BMD. IL-76 easily accommodates the 3 BMD, but the An-70 does not (only the 2 BMD). When you try to equip the An-70 VTAPs of the 61-th VA, all the standards for landing will collapse. Now, for the transfer of a company of paratroopers, an outfit from one link of IL-76's is required. And on An-70 you will need one and a half links - complete anarchy and a mess.

          Quote: avt
          , Too large "- so in general, in the USSR, pedal suckers did not order equipment, but" for growth ", for the dimensions of the next generation of equipment being designed, for the entire range.

          Maybe this idea was in the minds of the designers, but in reality it was not fish or meat. Why An-70 will not replace Il said above. And here is the An-12. At the end of the 80s, when the An-70 was conceived, the main task of the An-12 was not to transfer the airborne forces, but to ensure the daily activities of the Air Force. And it still remains so. It was once the main landing aircraft, but the Il-76 completely supplanted it by the end of the 80s. And what are the An-12s doing? For example, somewhere in Krymsk in the IAP, you need to pick up a pair of Al-31s and take them to Rybinsk for repairs. For the sake of such a load, it is too fat to drive the 76th, so the An-12 is pulled out of the local Rostov SAP and it takes the engines for repair. Or another example - you need to transfer technicians after a flying squadron or regiment. Worker An-12 is flying again. The dimensions, efficiency and carrying capacity of the An-12 cover all the needs of the Air Force for this kind of "domestic" aircraft. Why do we need An-70 for this? Rather, the An-178 is suitable for this role. Therefore, the article correctly says - we would buy a dozen or two of these aircraft for special operations forces and that's it.
          1. avt
            0
            27 September 2016 15: 07
            Quote: Alex_59
            ? Rather, the An-178 is suitable for this role.

            Well, let's put this hastily done from An-148 in hopes to jump off Il214 and bite off the budget of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, it won’t go anywhere - the car, unlike the An70, is stillborn.
            Quote: Alex_59
            The dimensions, efficiency and carrying capacity of the An-12 cover all the needs of the Air Force for this kind of "domestic" aircraft.

            request Uh-uh-uh, captain, mana! So that’s the trick that the 12th isn’t available, and patch it like US 130 No. well they won’t! And there’s no replacement .... request although in the USSR the 70th was supposed to be, so the Il76 is being changed. Measure ... intermediate. I think that in the end they will stop at the Ilov line: 112/114; 214; and ,, Ermak "-Analogue ,, Globemaster, well, the most popular and ......... a detached modernized 76th laughing He campaigns forever.
            1. +1
              27 September 2016 15: 38
              Quote: avt
              So that's the trick that 12 is not released, but patch it like US 130

              That's just it, that An-178 does not roll, Il-214 is not known when it will be. In my opinion, it is necessary to score on the ambitions of the "great air force" and buy litsuha for the Ketai Y-9. An elegant way to get around Ukrainians. And temporarily collect it until they give birth to the long-term IL-214 (if our rulers give birth at all).
              And in the future, the replacement of the 76-mu should be in the form of an analogue of the C-17 with a carrying capacity of 85-90 tons under the promising airborne staff with four BMD in the platoon. Or under the current staff with the 3 BMD, but with the ability to fly many times farther than the modern IL-76. So that took off in Pskov, and landed immediately in Angola without intermediate landings and refueling.
              1. avt
                0
                27 September 2016 15: 56
                Quote: Alex_59
                In my opinion, it is necessary to score on the ambitions of the "great air force" and buy litsuha for the Ketai Y-9.

                I completely agree, except for this. We fly to the 76th. Enough that we are already trying to suck in the Chinese replica of An24 in the Far East in the form of a screwdriver. Thank God, the 114th and 112th long-suffering on the way, crushed for the sake of An140 with the promise of making a ramp out of it.
  8. 0
    27 September 2016 10: 34
    The author did not reflect one more important aspect, whether and how much debts the Antonov State Enterprise has. But even without this, the answer is obvious, the future of the aircraft building industry in Ukraine lies in the release of pots and pans.
    1. +2
      27 September 2016 12: 04
      Quote: sedan
      But even without this, the answer is obvious, the future in the aircraft industry of Ukraine for the release of pots and pans.

      Rather, door and padlocks - like TAPOiCh:
      According to the resource "Ferghana.ru", the former flagship of the Soviet aviation industry "Tashkent Aviation Production Association named after V. Chkalov" (TAPOiCH) (since January 2014 - JSC "Tashkent Mechanical Plant") will become a manufacturer of door and padlocks.
      New products will begin in 2016, with an annual design capacity of 200 thousand locks.
  9. +2
    27 September 2016 11: 10
    It doesn’t matter what opportunities the aviation industry of Ukraine has. It is important that a competitor is not needed for the Boeing. So, the aviation industry of Ukraine will be strangled, no matter how he flutters. Perhaps some of the capacities will then be bought by the same Boeing for nothing.
  10. sq
    0
    27 September 2016 12: 01
    The voice of one crying in the desert .... It can be seen that a person is rooting for his job. I understand him perfectly, but I can only sympathize.
  11. +3
    27 September 2016 12: 14
    Quote: dmi.pris
    Unlike our cheers, I believe that the aviation industry of Ukraine still has a future.

    Unlike the liberal liberals, I believe that the Ukrainian aviation industry has a future no... Even if the country has not collapsed yet, the western "friends" of Ukraine will not allow this aviation industry to develop. They need to sell their planes.
  12. +1
    27 September 2016 12: 25
    And what about Antonov? This is in a different and now hostile state. Russia has its own problems with the aircraft industry. And now you propose to solve your problems? And how will everything work out, again receive orders from Russia? Well done guys, you can’t say anything.
  13. BAI
    +1
    27 September 2016 12: 27
    In my non-professional opinion, the most probable direction of development of the Ukrainian aviation industry is the manufacture of western-designed combat aircraft in Ukraine. The question of the supply of lethal weapons will be closed - everything has been done in Ukraine, with the exception of some components. The West may also pay for this work for itself, under the guise of helping Ukraine to revive its economy.
    1. avt
      +3
      27 September 2016 12: 50
      Quote: BAI
      In my non-professional opinion, the most probable direction of development of the Ukrainian aviation industry is the production of western-developed combat aircraft in Ukraine.

      wassat laughing So won tse Europa! And WHERE in WHICH country of Europe under license do other people's airplanes BATTLE ??? And to become close to India ........ Ruin is only in a fantasy novel parallel to the universe, if they move to the planet Nibiru as a whole country, well, with their entire Ukrainian globe! bully
      Quote: BAI
      The West may also pay for this work for itself, under the guise of helping Ukraine to revive its economy.

      laughing For IMF loans laughing Send a comment to Zadornov and demand a reprise fee ... even two.
  14. 0
    27 September 2016 15: 19
    I understand everything, I feel sorry for Ukraine, Antonov Design Bureau is sorry. But who felt sorry for our design bureaus and our aircraft plants? The same Voronezh VASO, which produced the IL-86 (96). Now, with grief, he half-rivets some Ana, in single copies. Do we need it? It would be better if IL or Tu launched their developments, and their Russian airlines created conditions when it is more profitable to fly on Russian planes (all this is easily regulated by taxes and duties), and at the same time created a patronage for our planes in foreign markets. And in the Ukrainian aviation industry, there is someone to be sad about, how they rode on the Maidan, immediately see the smartest and most working!
  15. 0
    27 September 2016 16: 30
    Therefore, I ask professionals and experts (not just one-celled propagandists from Antonov State Enterprise) to join this discussion to determine what the aviation industry of Ukraine expects and to develop their proposals for the presentation (I don’t know how) to the President of Ukraine on how to preserve it.
    Will he really help?
  16. 0
    27 September 2016 16: 42
    Quote: Yak28
    it’s a blessing to all blamed communists before figs, the country has not been there for 25 years, and more than half of the fleet has been produced there. And civil aviation flies almost all on Boeing.
    Yes, it hit a good one. If there were no revolutions, the bastards from the states with the Anglo-Saxons were on their knees at our doorstep with outstretched hands and asked
  17. +9
    27 September 2016 18: 02
    No future. Boeing, EADS, Brazilians and Canadians simply will not allow the appearance of even a hint of competition, and in the case of 404, even on its own territory. Maximum allow individual panels to release. They themselves dissociated themselves from Russia — into free swimming.
    Antonov died, sorry ..
  18. +1
    27 September 2016 18: 21
    Yes, it’s all in the minds of pan-leg-killers.
  19. +1
    27 September 2016 19: 13
    The Ukrainian aviation industry has no future. And he never was. Because the Ukrainian aviation industry is part of the Russian aviation industry, part of which was torn off and isolated from the main facilities. A severed arm is not viable. Russia will try to grow a new hand (and grow, you can be sure). Well, you ancient Ukrainians, you will not fly anymore. And not only into space. You better go to Europe (go, not fly). And I want to wish this citizen of Qiwi to stay at the helm of the former aviation industry of the former Ukraine as long as possible. Download. If God wants to punish, he destroys the mind.
  20. +1
    27 September 2016 22: 07
    In the article, I did not like the boring recount of the heads of the Antonov plant by the author - personally, I only heard about Balabuev out of my ears. New surnames mean nothing to me as a layman. I would not advise to sign for them, without any deeds or actions. But the author succeeded here too - from the picture he told how bad the promising UAV is.
    Yes, the masters at DP Antonov have not yet transferred! But they don’t even understand
    Here - the engineers who devoted their lives to aviation, who created several outstanding aircraft, do not understand, and the author immediately understood it!
    Another article about the funeral of the aviation industry (gas transmission industry, transport, defense industry ... etc), but why should there be little things! ... Ukraine!
    I will subscribe to those who believe in the aviation industry of neighbors. Time will tell...
    1. 0
      28 September 2016 03: 00
      in general, the author of this PISMA is the deputy chief designer and was previously the chief designer. so that he knows more than engineers.
  21. +3
    27 September 2016 22: 18
    You can talk for a long time and beautifully about the possible future of the remnants of the USSR, and in this case misunderstandings like ukro-avia-prom. I answered this question for myself back in 1988, when a young aircraft designer came on a business trip to Antonov Design Bureau. I was struck by the view of the large hall of the Design Bureau, where a mass of gray-haired old men worked. That is the whole future. Plus struck by impregnated by Ukrainianism Kiev and harmful stupid people. Do not understand the varieties of Ukrainian G, they are all smeared there by the betrayal of their ancestors, their Russian essence.
  22. 0
    28 September 2016 02: 52
    Anything can have a future. But, given the current situation in Ukraine, this question sounds no better than - "Will Ukraine join the EU?" Will come in. But, not before Turkey.

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