In the footsteps of the exhibition Eurosatory 2016: trends in the development of armored vehicles. Part of 1

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Prototype of a new wheeled armored vehicle Centauro II MGS 120 / 105

The global market for armored vehicles is more dynamic now than it was after the 2008 crisis of the year. Despite the economic difficulties, the growing tensions in the world and the growth of military conflicts are forcing many countries to increase their military capabilities and increase the fleet of armored vehicles. At the same time, emerging crises may have a completely different character compared with the military campaigns that the Western military has been conducting for more than 10 years since the beginning of the 2000's.




Fighting vehicle VBCI of the French army in Afghanistan. The Afghan experience has had a significant impact on the development of the defense systems and fire power of future combat vehicles.

Potential new combat scenarios influence the combat training, equipment, tactics, methods and methods of warfare, and an attempt to suggest what may be necessary for the next combat operation is a difficult task; in this regard, you can bring a fairly well-known phrase - "all wars were fought weaponsnecessary in a previous war. ” As for armored vehicles, this is often true even for recent operations. For example, the MRAP category machines designed for the Iraqi scenario were fully ready for deployment in Afghanistan, but as it turned out, they could not provide sufficient mobility in mountainous terrain, which led to the development of lighter MRAP machines with independent suspension. In this series of articles, we will not dwell in detail on which machines may be optimal for future tasks that are still unknown; we do not yet have a magic crystal. However, it is interesting to look at what trends in the design and procurement of armored vehicles currently prevail in the world, especially in European armies.

The controversy about what is better, the caterpillar or the wheel, still does not subside and may never end. However, it is clear that many European armies increase the parks of wheeled armored vehicles, armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles, some of them get rid of caterpillars, others retain mixed parks. You can already talk about some of the machines that were shown at the Eurosatory 2016; most of them were, of course, wheeled. France, Italy, Denmark, Spain and Turkey and some other countries are developing or adopting new platforms in the 8x8 or 6x6 configuration.

In the footsteps of the exhibition Eurosatory 2016: trends in the development of armored vehicles. Part of 1

The SICS combat information system, which is one of the three pillars of the Scorpion program of the French army, will allow the crews to work together. According to plans Tanks Leclerc and VBCI armored personnel carriers will also be equipped with SICS

Wheel break

With the start of the Scorpion program at the end of 2014, France began a profound transformation of its army, which involves the purchase of more than just wheeled vehicles. In fact, the program has three main directions. The first, of course, is associated with the production of two completely new cars, the BTR Griffon 6x6 and the armed reconnaissance vehicle Jaguar 6x6, which will soon be joined by a third lighter vehicle; the other two are the SICS operational management system (Systeme d'Information du Combat Scorpion) and the SEMBA integrated modeling system. The GME Scorpion Consortium consists of three companies, Nexter, Renault Trucks Defense and Thales; A number of other small and medium enterprises are also participating in this program. The SICS system with its digital architecture will combine the combat units of the French ground forces, from the level of the regiment and below. The SICS system developed by Bull (recently acquired by Atos) is not a hierarchical software like the five operational management systems it replaces, but a system like a social network that makes it easy to create interest groups like Facebook or Whatsapp. SICS will not be limited to the new Griffon and Jaguar armored vehicles, it will be installed on the Leclerc tank as part of the Scorpion Tranche 1 program, as well as as part of the planned modernization of the VBCI Stage 2. However, let's dwell on two new cars, which will soon be commissioned by the French army.


One of the latest artistic performances of the Griffon armored personnel carrier, which is to replace VAB vehicles in the French army. The first and the third managed bridges can be noted, as well as the new DBMS. The first prototype will be made in 2017

The new Griffon machine is designed to replace the VAB armored vehicles (Traffic de l'Avant Blinde), some of which have been modernized to match the Afghan theater of operations, but which are becoming obsolete, at least in the versions used in the French army. The new armored vehicle with the wheel formula 6x6 will be produced in six variants, and in fact in nine, since the variant of the armored personnel carrier will have four sub-options. The remaining options are engineering, control, artillery surveillance, sanitary and RCB reconnaissance. The Griffon platform will have good modularity and will be equipped with specialized transformation kits for a specific task. However, not all modernization kits will be purchased at first, they will be purchased later and, ultimately, this will allow for the modernization of the machine without the need for its deep refinement. The first serial contract for 318 machines is expected next year. The 1 Stage of the Scorpion program, which runs until the 2023 year, will include the production of 780 Griffon machines, and the total number of 2 machines (and this 2035 year) by the end of the Stage will be 1720 machines. But the Griffon 54 machines, armed with an 81-mm mortar and known as the MEPAC (Mortier Embarque Pour l'Appui au Contact) variant, will be financed under a separate contract. Griffon will have a significantly larger mass compared to VAB, but the developers considered it acceptable to leave the 6x6 wheel configuration. The machine will be equipped with a Renault MDE8 diesel engine with 400 horsepower. at 2200 rpm, coupled with an automatic transmission, which allows, taking into account the combat weight of the 24,5 ton, the specific power of the 16,3 hp / ton. All Griffon variants will be equipped with the same independent hydromechanical suspension with twin hydraulic shock absorbers developed by Quiri (it also produces the suspension for VBCI machines). The experience gained with the VBCI machine was studied and taken into account, although the requirements for off-road travel for the Griffon were not as stringent as the requirements for the 8xXNNXX configuration machine. In order to minimize the turning radius, the third bridge is made manageable. No details are given on the levels of protection, but if you think logically, they should not be less than the levels of protection of the last version of VBCI. Little is known about the weapons, except that a T1 remotely controlled weapon station (RWM) will be installed, developed by Renault Trucks Defense and Safran Electronics & Defense (new name of Sagem); the latter supplies a sensor kit that includes a typical high-definition television camera, an uncooled thermal imager, a laser rangefinder and a gyrocompass. The cradle can accept an 7,62-mm or 12,7-mm machine gun or an 40-mm automatic grenade launcher. Vetronic (onboard electronics) Griffon is supplied by Thales and is based on VSYS-net, the basis of which is the standard DDS (Data Distribution Service) bus. Safran and Thales company syndicated Optrolead, will put one of the systems - circular situational awareness system Antares, based on photosensitive matrix megapixel resolution 5,5 performed based on CMOS technology with elevation angles from -15 ° to + 75 °, which ensures detection vehicle at a distance of 650 meters. Antares can be used in various modes, including as a receiver of a warning system for laser irradiation with an accuracy of azimuth ± 1,5 °.



Prototype of the new Griffon at Eurosatory 2016

The prototype of the Antares system was introduced in the summer of 2016. At the same time, the acoustic sensor Pilar V manufactured by Acoem Metravib was presented. It is interesting to note that SICS allows you to use data obtained from more than one machine in a process called “joint triangulation”, which can significantly improve accuracy. Navigation is provided by a light and compact inertial navigation system Safran Epsilon 10, based on vibratory gyroscopes (gyrotrons), which guarantees an accuracy of about one percent of the distance traveled. At the moment, communications are the responsibility of Thales PR4G, including the new programmable radio station Contact, which the company speaks of as having a system that has characteristics that are a hundred times superior to those of current systems. Work with radio stations, as well as to maintain communication between the crew members of the Griffon car and the landing force will be enabled by the digital intercom system ELIPS developed by Elno. The new control unit was presented at the Eurosatory 2016 exhibition, it allows you to maintain communication between the crew and the infantrymen, even when they are out of the car, as well as to control up to three radio stations simultaneously.

While the Griffon remains the base armored personnel carrier, which will replace the 70-s similar car of the middle class, the Jaguar will replace three cars that are significantly larger in mass: AMX-10RC, ERC-90 Sagaie and VAB HOT. Consequently, the Jaguar specifications must exceed the specifications of the Griffon machine, as a result, its cost will be significant, and the quantity will be much smaller: 1 will buy 110 machines from Jaguar as part of the Phase, 2 will also buy 138 machines from 248, which will total 1720 pieces, this is far less than the number of Griffon (XNUMX) machines.

The mass of the car will be a little more and will be 24,3 tons against 22 tons; however, the engine Jaguar 500 horsepower. will provide much greater power density. The fact that off-road patency has a higher priority is illustrated by the choice of suspension: for the Jaguar, Quiri has developed an active hydropneumatic suspension, which is not only better for rough terrain, but also easier. This allows you to change the ground clearance, inclination of the machine, as well as the stiffness of the suspension. But of course you have to pay for everything, the suspension for Jaguar is about 2,5 times more expensive than the suspension for Griffon. Little data is available on Jaguar protection: the protection kit for the high-explosive IEDs will be available right from the start along with anti-bullet and RPG protection, while the protection kit for fragmentation IEDs is expected later.


Nexter Double Tower T40

The firepower is provided by the 40-mm CTA cannon installed in the double version of the Nexter T40 turret. A gun with telescopic ammunition juts less into the turret compared to conventional guns; the maximum angle of vertical guidance is 45 ° (although theoretically an angle of 75 ° can be achieved). In addition, when shooting in motion, the gun can shoot from the closed breech, which means reducing the delay between the team to open fire and the shot itself from 350 to 25 milliseconds, and this in turn contributes to increased accuracy. Currently, it is planned to use armor-piercing feathered sub-caliber, high-explosive fragmentation (point detonation) projectiles and air explosive ordnance; their qualification process is either completed or is already ending. The ammunition processing system can hold three types of 64 rounds of ammunition, switching from one type of ammunition to another takes less than 6 seconds. Another 120 shots are transported inside the car, since the French army demanded that the Jaguar machine be able to perform combat missions for up to three days. CTAI is currently developing two new types of ammunition: one practical with a reduced range and one for the A3B anti-aircraft defense (Anti-Aerial Air Burst - anti-aircraft, air detonation), mainly designed for Thales' RAPIDFire anti-aircraft complex. To fight tanks at large distances (up to 4 km), the Jaguar relies on a pair of MMP missiles; the twin-tube launcher is mounted on the starboard side of the turret, two more rockets are placed in the back of the turret on the left side. Designed and manufactured by MBDA, the MMP missile system is fully integrated with the machine and, in addition to the electronic interface unit, it also includes on-board displays and guidance systems. The commander's periscope and the gunner's sight are based on the Paseo optocoupler system developed by Safran. It includes the 3-5 micron thermal imaging camera, color camera and laser range finder, and according to available data, it can detect a vehicle at a distance of 12 km, recognize it at 7,7 km and identify it at 4,2 km. The Paseo system will also be installed on the Griffon VOA (artillery observation vehicle) artillery observer version, also equipped with an inertial aiming unit for aiming and a laser illumination device. In the VOA version, the Paseo system will be installed on a telescopic mast, which will also have Thales Observatory Ground Observer GO12 radar installed.



Soldiers disembark from the VAB Mk III armored personnel carrier (below); Renault Trucks Defense offers it to existing VAB machine operators, as well as those who need an armored personnel carrier with an optimal cost-effectiveness ratio

In order to provide accurate navigation data in areas where there is no GPS signal, the Jaguar machine is equipped with an inertial Safran Sigma 20 system based on hemispherical resonant gyroscopes, which provide much more accurate data compared to the Griffon’s navigation system. Due to the fact that the car with the turret has a more complex geometric shape, Jaguar will be equipped with two systems: the Antares situational awareness complex from Thales and the laser irradiation warning receivers. An anti-aircraft gun armed with an 7,62-mm MAG machine gun, which will be installed near the hatch of the shooter and will have a maximum vertical angle of 60 °, will be responsible for the short-range air defense. Silent surveillance is currently a mandatory mode for a reconnaissance vehicle: six rechargeable batteries ensure that the Jaguar can work for two hours with the engine shut off, which is reduced to almost zero acoustic and thermal signs of visibility.

Embedded modeling is another pillar of the Scorpion program. Within its framework, the kit is being developed under the designation SEMBA (Simulation EMBArquee), which is mainly intended for the Jaguar machine. It includes three additional computers, a joystick and a video driver for the driver, as well as virtual reality systems for the commander and the shooter, in this case the traditional periscopes replace the augmented reality glasses. The SEMBA system, which is installed in less than an hour and removed in less than 15 minutes, provides static control modeling of various machines. The control of learning is carried out from ordinary desktop computers of the training center, in the field with a hardened tablet. The development of dynamic modeling will be included in the Scorpion 2 Stage.



Jaguar will replace the three AMX-10RC, ERC-90 Sagaie and VAB HOT cars. The twin-turret is armed with a 40-mm cannon from CTAI, an anti-aircraft engine will be installed on the roof of the turret. Top of the Jaguar model at Eurosatory 2016



Introduced in 2013 by Nexter, the Titus armored vehicle is still looking for a launch customer. The car is based on the Tatra chassis and forms its own category

The development phase of the Scorpion program, launched in 2014, involves the manufacture of two mobile test benches, the first of which is scheduled for the middle of 2016. The first of the six Griffon prototypes will be ready in the 2017 year, while the first of the three Jaguar prototypes will be made in the 2018 year. The Scorpion program also includes the development of a light armored car 4x4, which will be discussed in the section on light vehicles.

France unhurriedly removes part of its obsolete armored personnel carriers VAB (Trafficule de lAvant Blinde), while the rest of the modernized armored personnel carriers are waiting for themselves to replace the new Griffon machine. Despite this, Renault Trucks Defense (RTD) has developed a new version of the Mk III. This option is only available in the 6x6 configuration, its combat weight has increased to 20 tons; Two configurations are available with different engines, Renault Dxi7 340 horsepower. or Renault MDE8 horsepower 400 The car is equipped with an independent suspension; only the first axle is controlled; an optional second axle can receive steering wheels. The hull has limited levels of protection, since it was originally designed for the installation of additional kits that can provide ballistic protection up to the 4 level and mine protection to the 3B level. In an armored personnel carrier configuration, two crew members plus 13 infantrymen can be accommodated in a VAB MkIII protected enclosure with 3 m10 volume. Embarkation and disembarkation are carried out through two manually opening doors, but an electrically operated aft ramp is optionally available. The machine is equipped with a Battlenet Inside RTD development architecture and an 300 Ampere generator. At Eurosatory 2016, RTD presented the latest configuration with a turret armed with an 90-mm cannon, which makes it an effective platform for direct fire support with a long combat mission time thanks to a large number of portable 90-mm shots. The compact fire support option complements the existing options, allowing RTD to offer VAB MkIII based solutions for a full-fledged battle group.

The first customer of the new version was to be Lebanon; With the financing of Saudi Arabia, 100 machines were manufactured for this country. Political differences have forced the Saudi government to cancel military aid to Beryut, and now the fate of the contract signed in February 2016 of the year is not clear.

In addition to the fact that the new machine is offered mainly to countries that are already using previous versions of VAB, it is also used as a technology demonstrator for electric drives. The demonstration model under the designation Electer was equipped with a hybrid power unit of a parallel circuit. To power 340 hp A conventional diesel engine electric motor is able to almost instantly add 170 kW (almost 230 hp). If necessary, Electer can silently drive over 10 km at a speed of 60 km / h using one electric power unit. Accumulated electricity can also be used for covert surveillance, with 3 kW being provided for on-board equipment for more than 5 hours. The genset weighs about 600 kg, but given the reduction in the number of batteries and other advantages, the weight gain is actually not that big. VAB MkIII Electer was assigned to the 13 Armaments Directorate in January 2015.


Electer demo model equipped with a hybrid power unit

As is known, the process of merging the French company Nexter with the German KMW is going on at the moment, after which its headquarters will remain in France. With the delivery of the VBCI machine to the French army and the display of the VBCI 2 at DSEI 2015, the company has made a lot of efforts to promote these options in the 8xXNNXX configuration abroad; and the UK is considered a priority. As for the new Titus 8x6, its commercial success in the export market, according to experts, is not far off.

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  1. PKK
    +5
    28 September 2016 06: 30
    All these high beauties, destined for one fate, lie on the side of the road with the wheels up. Our cars are squat, passable and more adapted to nature.
    1. +11
      28 September 2016 07: 34
      Quote: PKK
      Our cars are squat, passable and more adapted to nature.

      There were squats. Look at Boomerangs and Armata. We are now starting to make equipment according to Western fashion, following its design school, forgetting about the domestic one, which has been the best since the forties. And now we are solving the problem head-on in the Western manner. we increase the size, add additional armor, ignoring the increase in mass and decrease in maneuverability, reliability also suffers. Because the suspension of a 40-ton vehicle is always less loaded than a 70-ton one, the load on a four-meter support surface of a caterpillar when turning is always less than with a 6-meter one (here the law of the lever affects), with an equal turning speed (in the tank) for a six-meter "shoulder" more for end tracks, hence the angular velocity and load, etc. etc.
      But in general, a new trend, as I understand it from the article, was not shown ... The world of BTT so far has stalled on old ideas and principles.
      1. 0
        28 September 2016 11: 02
        Quote: qwert
        But in general, a new trend, as I understand it from the article, was not shown ... The world of BTT so far has stalled on old ideas and principles.

        But what about the French "Scorpion"? The concept is essentially revolutionary
      2. +1
        28 September 2016 16: 09
        Quote: qwert
        The world of BTT so far has stalled on old ideas and principles.

        Twelve years ago, I wrote a futuristic story, The Beginning of the End, which outlined some of my views on future wars. There, according to the scenario, a hypothetical war between Russia and NATO was considered. There was no talk of fighting the partisans.
        http://www.apn.ru/index.php?newsid=18475
        My scenario provided for the creation of light combat vehicles with armor slightly larger than good body armor. The main idea was (and is) that the means of destruction required to destroy a unit of armored vehicles are cheaper than this unit of armored vehicles.
        A secondary idea was that they began to hang on the soldier so much that they turned him into a sedentary "knight" with little autonomy. Light combat vehicles increase its combat capabilities and provide it with greater autonomy.
        Light combat vehicles are much easier to hit. But here everything must be considered. What will be more tenacious: one armored personnel carrier with a dozen landing troops (+ two crew members), or six light two-seater combat vehicles?
        If the survivability calculations are approximately equal, and the firepower of light vehicles is almost certainly higher, then an economic comparison should be made. I suppose that it will also be in favor of light cars.
        This is about what you mentioned - the lack of new ideas and new principles.
        I sent a copy of this futuristic story 1 of February 2005 to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
        It also mentioned the ideas of the now exaggerated network-centric warfare, when target designation is transmitted directly bypassing the hierarchical structure. 12 years have passed. And I am not shy to mention it today.
        1. +1
          28 September 2016 16: 47
          Quote: Vladimir Postnikov
          The main idea was (and is) that the means of destruction required to destroy a unit of armored vehicles are cheaper than this unit of armored vehicles.

          Did you take into account the very and very high cost of training the crew of such machines?
          1. 0
            28 September 2016 18: 38
            Quote: Spade
            Did you take into account the very and very high cost of training the crew of such machines?

            Taken into account. If you had read the original source ("The Beginning of the End"), then you would not have asked this question. Special attention is paid to this issue there.
            1. 0
              28 September 2016 19: 27
              Quote: Vladimir Postnikov
              If you had read the original source ("The Beginning of the End"), then you would not have asked this question. Special attention is paid to this issue there.

              I re-read it, there isn’t such a thing there.

              By the fact that there is ... Until now, electronics that can completely replace the gunner does not exist. Reinforced concrete fact. The Germans tried, failed. Therefore, a normal combat-ready crew should consist of at least three people. Commander, driver and gunner.

              Well and so, on trifles you have a sea of ​​mistakes. For example, a fuel cell will not make the car invisible in the IR spectrum. But it will make it much more expensive.
              1. 0
                28 September 2016 20: 05
                Quote: Spade
                I re-read it, there isn’t such a thing there.

                Yes you are right. The text has been trimmed by this link. There it is visible in the text. Alas, so many years have passed. Did not check. Here is the full version.
                http://www.apn-nn.ru/pub_s/1497.html
                Quote: Spade
                Therefore, a normal combat-ready crew should consist of at least three people. Commander, driver and gunner.

                The duties of a commander and a gunner cannot be combined? Why? Explain.
                Quote: Spade
                Well and so, on trifles you have a sea of ​​mistakes.

                As for the minor mistakes, they are, and I will not deny it. This work had no opponents to eliminate these errors and typos.
                As for fuel cells (FCs). Yes, there is heat in the emission products, but the efficiency of the FC elements is approximately 50%, while the efficiency of internal combustion engines is 12 — 15%. And yet, unlike internal combustion engines, the efficiency of fuel cells remains very high even when they do not operate at full power. This means that when the machine does not move, but is on alert, the efficiency remains high, i.e. heat generation is proportionally reduced according to consumption. The fact that they work silently, I think, is not worth mentioning.
                By the way, this year is a landmark for fuel cell vehicles. Three companies launched production cars on the market at once. The first three swallows. So this year went down in the history of fuel cells.
                But, I’ll add here, in order to achieve something, we need to work on it. Constantly. Our specialists had a good start in Soviet times. Then there were years of stagnation. Now it’s great to be behind, judging by the submarines.
                1. 0
                  28 September 2016 20: 44
                  Quote: Vladimir Postnikov
                  The duties of a commander and a gunner cannot be combined? Why? Explain.

                  The properties of the human brain.
                  It is impossible to concentrate on hitting a target and maintain the level of situational awareness necessary to control the machine. Here "control the machine" is to control both fire and maneuver. Mehan and gunner.
                  That is, if there are two people in the crew, then either the driver or the gunner should be replaced by powerful artificial intelligence.

                  Quote: Vladimir Postnikov
                  Here is the full version.

                  And in the full version there is no solution to the problem of the high cost of training a soldier. However, if the task of saving human resources is not on the agenda ...

                  By the way, on a note: it is impossible to teach using only simulators. At the moment, the most effective system is real equipment and weapons, a real enemy, laser simulators of shooting and destruction and "Big Brother".
                  But even when using this, frankly, expensive system, you can’t do without real live firing, just like without simulators.
                  1. 0
                    28 September 2016 21: 21
                    Quote: Spade
                    And in the full version there is no solution to the problem of the high cost of training a soldier.

                    Why not?
                    Good. I quote:
                    "The Russians abandoned military conscription for a long time and completely switched to contract army and navy. However, universal conscription remained, only now it is based on professional training of citizens. If a young man, for example, studied logistics, or computers, then this is instantly displayed in his In the event of his mobilization, he, if possible, will be immediately appointed to a similar position in the army, but before that he will regularly receive small training tasks, which are designed in such a way as to develop certain skills for him to quickly master the related military The control over the assimilation of the material and the level of acquired skills is carried out with the help of regularly conducted testing. Regardless of the profession, all conscripts must be able to control Murash and all his weapons. The simulator created for this purpose is constantly being improved in such a way that it can be freely installed on a regulara desktop computer with a specification available at the moment for the vast majority of the population. If, nevertheless, young people do not have such a computer, then they should visit specially created training centers quite regularly after work.
                    In addition to teaching functions, the Russians have not forgotten to put well-thought out propaganda functions into their programs. Once a year, every man between the ages of 16 and 50 must pass an examination test at a special center on a more complex simulator that not only very accurately simulates all Murash systems, but also movement at speed over rough terrain and water obstacles. Once every five years, you have to pass an exam in a real car and with real shooting at a special shooting range. "

                    And computer games, and simulators, and shooting at the training ground. Everything is there, including real shooting. And do not underestimate the value of simulators. They are very, very useful for developing any skills. A separate topic of conversation.

                    Should be interrupted for a couple of hours.
                    1. +2
                      28 September 2016 21: 51
                      That is, your option is to mix an expensive piece product in the form of professional fighters with the cheapest cannon fodder. To minimize losses among the first. Reasonable.

                      By the way, how, for example, do you plan, by using a simulator on a desktop computer, to instill the ability to maintain concentration after several days without sleep? Or will "Panzerschodkolade" provide the push meat? 8)))

                      Well, about the simulators ... I was finishing artuha. We had these simulators above the roof. Starting with the "flyers" on a piece of paper at the beginning of the lesson, and ending with a computer program. Laser artillery range, rifle artillery range. Even AGSami shot, but this is already in the troops, when the equipment of the ancient Soviet VAP ordered to live long. Every half a year, live firing ...
                      As for the real war, it turned out that all this is not enough at all. These are the pies .... It’s hard to imagine what I would do if I studied only on a computer simulator.
                      1. +2
                        29 September 2016 02: 01
                        Any questions. It is wonderful. At least someone had them.
                        The properties of the human brain.
                        It is impossible to concentrate on hitting a target and maintain the level of situational awareness necessary to control the machine. Here "control the machine" is to control both fire and maneuver. Mehan and gunner.
                        That is, if there are two people in the crew, then either the driver or the gunner should be replaced by powerful artificial intelligence.

                        The text (let's call it text) mentions that "Regardless of their profession, all persons liable for military service should be able to control Murash and all his weapons." It's like a Kalashnikov assault rifle today. There is only one commander in the car, and it is he who will decide who will work on what number. If the partner copes better with the tablet, thinks faster, then the commander can sit in the driver's seat himself. In the car, both should be able to do everything. How can this be achieved? Exercise.
                        By the way, in what way, for example, do you plan to inculcate the ability to maintain concentration after several days without sleep by using a simulator on a desktop computer?

                        The answer will be long.
                        It is about preparing for a real war, and not for a war with partisans. For a real war, according to the experience of the First and Second, there were not enough professionals trained in peacetime. If a serious war begins, it will be a meat grinder. The text is about preparing a reserve, first of all.
                        If the entire reserve will be on exercises, then who will work? And there is not enough money for high-quality professional training of all reservists.
                        A desktop computer will allow you to develop and maintain some reflexes. You have noticed well about the properties of the human brain. One example from my life today. I played table tennis well. But, a few months ago, I had a problem with the elbow of my playing hand. Now I'm retraining to another. An interesting situation. I know everything how, but I cannot. It's not about the hand. It's about the brain, and on a subconscious level. When I played with my striking hand, I did not even think about how the various muscles of my body react to a ball flying under the striking hand (for example). But now this is not a striking hand, I play another, and I have problems. I have a problem with technology just because it's a brain problem. I need to reprogram it, or otherwise develop new "acquired" reflexes. Reprogramming can only be done by training. I don't need a partner right now. I need a simulator ("gun" - there is one) to reprogram my brain. After I learn how to hit with it from the right, left, etc., starting at low speeds, and constantly increasing them, I can quickly start playing with a partner. Without the technique of hitting the ball, I won't play with a strong partner for a long time. (Unfortunately, I don't have such a simulator)
                        Do not minimize the role of simulators and simulators. They will not replace the real situation, but they will fix in the brain the knowledge of what should be done in a particular situation.
                        As for more serious simulators. They should be done. It will always be much cheaper than any exercise in the field. Simulators, including sound effects (at full capacity), improve faster than military equipment. They do not replace the real environment, but they are like "tennis cannon" help to develop the necessary reflexes.
                        Your option is to mix an expensive piece product in the form of professional fighters with the cheapest cannon fodder.

                        Yes and no. When you appeared in the unit as a lieutenant, were you already a professional? Not. Were not. You first diluted there, and then gained experience, and only after some time already became a professional. And so it was during the war. If you throw completely untrained units into battle, this is fraught with large losses.
                        By the way, training at training grounds is also not a substitute for real hostilities.
                        So, to summarize, simulators and simulators are necessary to prepare the reserve. In the text, the doctrine at the training ground once every five years.
                        Now, for a few days without sleep.
                        You didn't notice that each car should have one (preferably two) berths. With these machines, you can forget about tents. I do not believe in tents (tarpaulin!) In the next big war. The car, in addition to sleeping places, is equipped with a heater and air conditioning. There is a microwave and a boiler. You will not need not only sleeping tents, but also dining tents. The Americans have experience in Afghanistan, when the mujahideen "covered" their canteens. Bad experience. And in a war with a strong enemy it will be even worse.
                        Man is not a robot. War is such a great test. It is necessary to try to ease his burdens, and not to aggravate them. A sleepy soldier is a bad soldier, even if he is capable of completing a mission. You cannot fool nature. You are at her door, and she is back at the window.
                2. +1
                  28 September 2016 21: 06
                  And you also have one thesis that absolutely does not correspond to reality. About "overprotection" with modern means of destruction.

                  Fact: if the Apache is not interfered with, then only with its missile weapons it is capable of hitting either 16 tanks or 76 vehicles with bulletproof armor. In the first case, he will be forced to use "helpers", in the second, it will be enough for him to use controlled "Hydras".
                  Moreover, if there is a possibility that a tank can be found among the vehicles with a bulletproof vehicle, the number of controlled hydras on the Apache is immediately reduced by half.
                  1. 0
                    29 September 2016 02: 27
                    Quote: Spade
                    Fact: if the Apache is not interfered with, then only with its missile weapons it is capable of hitting either 16 tanks or 76 vehicles with bulletproof armor.

                    "He is sist, but who will give him" (from an anecdote).
                    In the text, the vehicles are equipped with Tulip-type mortars. The vehicle carries several unified rounds of guided projectiles / missiles. Let's say three anti-tank and one anti-aircraft. Such unified shots do not exist in reality. The idea of ​​MO was not interested. The idea of ​​using a mortar for such shots is described in the text - an additional cheap impulse, which means that either the rocket flies farther, or it is cheaper. Machines like wolves are powerful in a distributed pack. For them, the helicopter should be the same target as they are for the helicopter.
                    When I suggested the militia to automate the "Sled" for the GAZ-34039 carrier, I mentioned there that if you make a fuse for 120mm mines with a constant delay of thirty seconds, then there will be zones of destruction of air targets (helicopters, drones) with such mines for mortars equipped with the appropriate ACS ... This is theoretically possible. Whether anyone tried to implement this in practice - I don't know.
                    As for the operation of the system as a mortar, everything is exactly the same as you described it for self-propelled guns when working from the ground. They laid out several pieces in advance, drove up, shot, then drove on. And the expensive supply of guided missiles remains with itself. Well, everything as you described.
      3. +1
        29 September 2016 20: 02
        Quote: PKK
        All these high beauties, destined for one fate, lie on the side of the road with the wheels up. Our cars are squat, passable and more adapted to nature.


        Quote: qwert
        There were squatters. Look at the Boomerangs and Almaty. We are now starting to make Western fashion technology, following its design school, forgetting about the domestic one, which has been the best since the forties.

        You are mistaken - now the main enemy of the tank is not another tank, but the ATGM, and it is an infection, it hits the roof - so the silhouette is not the main thing now - the main thing is electronic defense systems, in particular the GOS suppression system of attacking missiles, active and din. protection, crew information support, new types of armor and shells - and squat is by no means the main thing ...
        1. 0
          30 September 2016 16: 43
          Good show, but have you seen the prehistory of this video? In the beginning, before the shot, the armor of this tank was heated with two heat guns. And why is everyone screaming about the defeat of the tower when the main infrared radiation comes from the transmission.
          1. 0
            30 September 2016 18: 05
            Quote: Anatoly
            Good show, but have you seen the prehistory of this video? In the beginning, before the shot, the armor of this tank was heated with two heat guns. And why is everyone screaming about the defeat of the tower when the main infrared radiation comes from the transmission.

            But what's the difference warmed up or not warmed up - probably warmed up because the tank is with the engine turned off. And you can read more who is screaming about the tower? )))
            Okay - it was Toe - the second generation, an analogue of Cornet. Here is Spike - the third generation - also say the target was warmed up? smile
            The squat tank won’t save now - if the optics were lit with this laser, or if the shot was treated with a counter-charge, yes, and the squat case is no longer relevant.
            1. 0
              1 October 2016 06: 05
              And what about the EW, if the camera stops working and the most important limitation is the speed of the rocket, the higher the speed, the more difficult it is for the operator to hit the target, especially in motion, and it is easier to shoot down low-speed rockets by KAZ systems.
    2. 0
      28 September 2016 07: 48
      So nature is different everywhere!
      On a Middle East or African theater of operations with their hard soils, wheeled vehicles are exactly what is needed to disperse bearded men good
      But they are not going to our forests, swamps and spring / autumn thaw, which is already evident from the reduction of armies by European countries.
      1. +2
        28 September 2016 13: 24
        About the wheels. If I’m not mistaken, the wheels in the Russian climate feel pretty good. Look at the post-war development of Siberia and the Far East of Russia. To giant construction sites in uninhabited places, to new enterprises, cities, power lines, etc. etc. What was being built? Wheel trucks, KRAZ, MAZ, URALS, Czech TATRAs, German Magirus-Deutz. Caterpillar equipment was also there, I do not argue.
        Look at Finland. What natural conditions and landscape do they have there? Better than in Russia? And what a wonderful weapon they create on the basis of the wheeled conveyor Patria.
        And what about Austria? There are no swamps, but there are forests and fields and mountains. Do you want to underestimate the Austro-American-Czech wheeled Pandur II?
        Is Czech ShKH vz. 77 Dana or the Swedish 155mm FH77 BW L52 Archer multipurpose self-propelled artillery bogged down somewhere or lying in ditches? These cars and rainy autumn on a plowed field no worse than caterpillar equipment
        1. +3
          28 September 2016 17: 03
          When Komsomolsky was blocked, followed by stripping, it was necessary to unload the Centropodvoz’s wheeled vehicles for the last several kilometers of the route on asphalt, reload them onto tracked vehicles, and carry them further. The wheels could not pass through, right up to pulling out bridges when trying to do it with the help.

          Well, a little later, already in the Vedeno area in the mountains, rains occurred. They didn’t take the wheels up by itself. But even the goose got up, including the tanks. Only MT-LB remained on track.

          And here you are about Patria-Pandura ... Along the roads, it’s possible to act only in the desert. Even on a European theater with its well-developed network of roads, this is not worth doing. Unless, of course, there is a task to make life easier for the enemy. After all, there is nothing better than the execution of a standing blocked column, is not it?
          1. +1
            28 September 2016 19: 42
            There is a department in the headquarters that is called (I may not write it correctly in Russian) operational planning of operations support. There must be people who know the state of the parts, people and equipment at the moment and at the site they have checked. And on the basis of this data, including weather conditions, landscape and much more, they must send the right material and appropriate equipment to this area at the right time. These people need to know the "Economics of War" and decide if to send tracks or wheels. This does not apply only to logistics, but also to the planning of combat operations, but there they are already connected to the officers who are planning combat contact. Do not know how? Let them learn on the front lines. Combat is always more or less chaos.

            There are two more reliable ways of getting around 1) Donkey, 2) "Maxim will crawl on his belly and nothing will happen to him" laughing
            1. +1
              28 September 2016 19: 57
              This is all, of course, good ... But how do you personally imagine this? It began to rain, and the French are starting to develop tracked vehicles to transport their infantry? I'm afraid they will not have time 8)))
    3. +1
      28 September 2016 07: 56
      looking at the Boomerang, I would not say that it is squat, on the contrary, the trend is that in height they are now almost all similar, that is, a very large silhouette
      1. +1
        28 September 2016 08: 51
        You have not seen typhoons ...
  2. +4
    28 September 2016 08: 33
    The low profile now does not save at all, but only creates a lot of inconvenience to the soldiers inside. This is in Soviet times when there was a cap from the equipment, an automatic rifle and a cartridge pouch can be endured somehow, but now the warrior has quite a lot of things to hang on and climb with all this in armored personnel carrier 80 , and also to stay there? In case of a mine explosion it’s better to have a higher profile, less chance of collapsing on the roof, if you are defeated by an RPG, it’s better to have more space inside, although they say that the version of overpressure is greatly exaggerated, but I read that many ankistam managed to survive after being hit by an RPG through open hatches.
    1. +6
      28 September 2016 10: 52
      The low profile as well as the small frontal section and rational angles of inclination both solved and decide. It all depends on the type of military operations, if this is a full-fledged war, then all of the above qualities are very necessary. And if this is another police operation, in essence, against the next Papuans, then you can build lightly armored sheds with all the amenities.
      As for the free space inside the BM in case of a defeat from a grenade launcher, the stories with open hatches are complete nonsense. If it does not kill with a cumulative stream and fragments of armor, then at least seriously shell-shock the shock wave that has flowed into the hatches. Ideally, the space in the BM should be exactly as much as necessary for the comfortable operation of those in it - a large amount of free space is just as dangerous because of the greater likelihood of ricochet of the same fragments of armor and spray from the cumulative jet.
  3. Pbs
    +4
    28 September 2016 08: 38
    It is a pity that Russian designers followed the wrong Western path of creating machines for peaceful life and the war against the Papuans. Only in such conditions is all this mine garbage needed, excessively increasing the height, as well as a bunch of expensive protection. In a real war against NATO, none of this is needed. Lightweight cheap armored vehicles will be needed to control the civilian population in the occupied territories and powerful, but cheap (and therefore numerous) tanks for conventional battles in border areas where the use of nuclear weapons is impossible for some reason.
    1. +1
      29 September 2016 20: 24
      Quote: Pbs
      It is a pity that Russian designers followed the wrong Western path of creating machines for peaceful life and the war against the Papuans. Only in such conditions is all this mine garbage needed, excessively increasing the height, as well as a bunch of expensive protection. In a real war against NATO, none of this is needed. .


      Are you really not so interested in weapons that are in the arsenal of the armies of a potential enemy?
      The story of its creation? the pace of adoption?
      Yes do you know. how many mine weapons are there?
      cluster NURs, bombs, land and air mine barriers ...

      Just think for yourself.
      Papuans are stupid.
      They themselves are not capable of coming up with pit traps.
      Well, they haven’t been able for thousands of years and cannot now.
      I'm sorry. white people gave them "their (white) weapon and explained how it works."
      So this is not a Papuan technique.
      This is "white technique"
      And "white tactics" ...
  4. +1
    28 September 2016 08: 49
    These are not battlefield cars - they are more like police forces. The line from the heavy machine gun is easily immobilized, and the fighter with the RPG will put a logical point, it’s difficult to miss such a silhouette ...
  5. 0
    28 September 2016 09: 10
    Quote: qwert
    Quote: PKK
    Our cars are squat, passable and more adapted to nature.

    There were squats. Look at Boomerangs and Armata. We are now starting to make equipment according to Western fashion, following its design school, forgetting about the domestic one, which has been the best since the forties. And now we are solving the problem head-on in the Western manner. we increase the size, add additional armor, ignoring the increase in mass and decrease in maneuverability, reliability also suffers. Because the suspension of a 40-ton vehicle is always less loaded than a 70-ton one, the load on a four-meter support surface of a caterpillar when turning is always less than with a 6-meter one (here the law of the lever affects), with an equal turning speed (in the tank) for a six-meter "shoulder" more for end tracks, hence the angular velocity and load, etc. etc.
    But in general, a new trend, as I understand it from the article, was not shown ... The world of BTT so far has stalled on old ideas and principles.

    What fashion? what are you talking about? we have our own vision of the development of armored vehicles. And the West has nothing to do with it. Yes, the armata are higher and there’s nobody in the tower either. They all lie on the floor. In essence, the crew was lower
    1. +3
      28 September 2016 11: 17
      Quote: vkl.47
      What fashion? what are you talking about? we have our own vision of the development of armored vehicles. And the West has nothing to do with it. Yes, the armata are higher and there’s nobody in the tower either. They all lie on the floor. In essence, the crew was lower

      Eighties concept. Both in the USSR and in the West. I'm talking about an uninhabited tower. As for the reclining position, this is from the late sixties - the Chieftain tank, then the Challenger, to some extent the Abrams. But not the USSR. Our team felt that it was not ergonomic and decided it was better to lower the profile of the tower. By the way, can the armata tower be called low-profile? No. Despite the uninhabitedness And as for another vision, we had it before the last samples. These are clearly in the manner of the West. The very shape of wheeled cars ... Look at European wheeled cars of the 80s and 90s or the American Stryker. One to one, as they say. A shed (in size) on wheels, with a beveled upper frontal sheet adjacent to the lower one, the form for swimming is not sharpened. There is no bazaar in a spacious APC to drive around the "pampas" more convenient and comfortable. However, in the USSR, they made cars to fight, and not drive around the "pampas", and that was right.
      By the way, I’m embarrassed to ask, what is the corner construction of the tower in the first picture ??? She type of tin at the corners is assembled using bolts ??? smile
      1. +4
        28 September 2016 12: 37
        I read komenty this is of course yes our way, we have equipment for war and so on. and tp, we hide in the grass we won’t be seen by the general spratization of soldiers in armored vehicles. Or maybe on the contrary, notice and destroy the enemy early on the far approaches? .. not this is not our way, it’s necessary to create normal optics, SLAs, thermal imagers. well, etc. .we’ll do it all of a sudden suddenly they won’t notice in the grass .. and I wonder what kind of war and with whom our armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles were created? with their deplorable armor protection (tanks I do not take) Papuans with spears to drive? or against NATO troops? and the soldiers who move on the armor so can then do the seats not inside but outside? so handy. Or it can still do BMPs, armored personnel carriers with normal armor protection.
  6. 0
    28 September 2016 12: 20
    The French always eats somewhere, everything is their own way. Take that their warships of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, that they were of the 20s and 30s of the 20th century, and now, once again with all the Gallic expression, hit a wheeled vehicle =)
    1. 0
      28 September 2016 19: 32
      Quote: Maks Repp
      The French always eats somewhere, everything is their own way.

      They at least have some kind of harmonious system. Understanding "where we are going". The rest do not really bother with this. They just rivet on the principle of "faster, higher, stronger"
  7. 0
    28 September 2016 12: 30
    And here is the fashion for tall cars? half of the cars presented are somewhere in between MRI and armored personnel carriers, and hardly swim. This is not an armored personnel carrier in its purest form as we understand it for large wars. If you build MCI on civilian truck units, then there will be a V-shaped diesel with a standard box and bridges, plus mine protection. So we got a high mass profile like the T-34. The armor of the car is not currently being conveyor-made and is intended for against partisan actions and the most comfortable and long-term location of the crew in the car under protection, while the resource and maintainability are like that of a truck. Not even for the war with Iraq, these machines are not intended ..
  8. +2
    28 September 2016 13: 45
    All the armored equipment shown was not run-in in the harsh military conditions of the war with the use of all types of weapons, and it is premature to speak of them good or bad. Looking at the conflict in Syria and Iraq where armored vehicles are being destroyed quickly, with the help of petrochemical, RPGs and land mines, we can conclude that the training of crews and the competent use of equipment solve it. For example, how Abramsov was hit in Iraq with land mines, in Yemen with old gunships, Turkish M-60s in Syria and Kurdistan, T-90s also in Syria, if the crew operates without communication with and without the support of infantry, aviation and art systems, this everything is a pile of metal.
  9. +1
    28 September 2016 18: 02
    I liked the Jaguar. One can feel the passability and power of the weapon. The size of the turret will allow you to mount the weapon and the "splinter". And in the long run - a variety of add-ons with ATGM, SAM, etc.
  10. 0
    29 September 2016 07: 56
    I've always been interested, but how do wheeled vehicles fight Molotov cocktails? But what if the battlefield is on fire? Tires stupidly burn out and all? Or how?
  11. 0
    29 September 2016 08: 01
    In real life, without KAZ in Syria, these cars will not last long. ATGMs rule ...
  12. 0
    29 September 2016 17: 11
    In order not to breed unnecessary discussions there is a good movie:

  13. 0
    1 October 2016 17: 13
    not impressed, all this has already been shown ...
  14. 0
    4 October 2016 15: 15
    an exhibition with so many wheeled platforms suggests that the West was going to wage colonial wars around the world. in real battle, it's all just rubbish burning in the first minutes.
  15. 0
    6 October 2016 13: 38
    Vladimir Postnikov,
    Thinking prudently, I’ll throw two pennies myself. When you are even in the Urals under an awning you go to the cold in your greatcoat and froze. Whatever the motivation, but you're just not a fighter. Muscles do not obey, the brain does not understand. Yes, comfort in war, by definition, can not be! But the more we keep the comfortable conditions for the body of a fighter, the greater benefits we can derive from it! War is not only battles, but also a complex of many factors. Life support, weapons, fighter skills! And what's more important? It's hard to say, rather, there should be a perfect combination of everything!

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