And again about the confrontation of the T-50 PAK FA with Raptor. Missed "National Interest" details

165

The fifth prototype of the unobtrusive super-maneuverable multi-purpose 5 generation fighter of the PAK FA - T-50-5Р. The car received one of the most beautiful camouflage in the Russian videoconferencing system "Shark"


More than six and a half years have passed since the first flight of the prototype of the Russian 5th generation T-50-1 PAK-FA super-maneuverable multi-role fighter of the 29th generation. During this time, the network could meet thousands of discussions among fans of combat aviation and specialists regarding the combat qualities of this magnificent machine in confrontation with the best serial fighter of the 5th generation of the Air Force - F-22A Raptor, three modifications of the most famous and popular in the West promising tactical fighter F-35A / B / C, as well as various fighters transitional generation produced by West European aerospace corporations. It was clearly determined that on all machines of the 4 ++ generation (Rafal, EF-2000 Typhoon, JAS-39NG, Super Hornet, F-15SE, etc.) the T-50 PAK FA will be To have undeniable superiority in ultra-long, long and short-range air battles.



A similar situation will develop with the American F-35 drill and export, even if they are equipped with AIM-120D long-range air-to-air guided missiles (URVV). However, due to the significantly lower radar visibility of Lightning, this will occur at a much shorter (by 1,5 - 2 times) distance than with transitional machines. Lightning with EPR 0,15 - 0,2 m2 be found onboard radar N036-01-1 to 175 distance - 200 km, where it can launch an attack with the use of PBB-DB missiles ( "the product 610M"), as well as more adapted to this highly maneuverable missile with propulsive a jet engine, known as the “180-PD product”. The AN / APG-81 radar, installed on the F-35A, will be able to detect a PAK FA with an ESR less than 0,3 m 2 at a distance from 120 to 140 km, so long-range AMRAAMs will have to be used, not according to the information of the radiation warning system, which emphasizes the lag behind the Russian promising aviation complex.

But still hot debates continue over the likely battles of T-50 with F-22A. On the Raptor and the radar is several times more powerful than the F-35A, and its noise immunity will be higher. As for the radar visibility (EPR), it does not exceed 0,05 - 0,07. Similar to the T-50, the Raptor is equipped with a twin-engined powerplant with an OBE and is a super maneuverable fighter. This is an excellent ground for the continuation of the simulation of air confrontation between the two best fighters in the world.

OPINION OF SOME WESTERN MEDIA BECOMES MORE OBJECTIVE

So, September 16 2016, the next short comparison of two 5 generation aviation complexes, has published an online edition of the famous magazine The National Interest. Here, an absolutely weighted position was reported, where the T-50 was presented as a next-generation fighter equal to the Raptor. In its article TNI, the Russian Federation and the People's Republic of China were noted as the current world leaders in the development and production of the best fighter aircraft in the world. Despite the brevity of the analytical review, the Nixon Center (often called “The National Interest”) very competently approached the comparison of the two best 5 generation fighters, indicating their main advantages and disadvantages expressed by design differences.

So, according to the most important criterion for 5 generation fighters - effective scattering surface (EPR), the reviewer gave greater preference to the American F-22A, pointing out that when creating the Raptor, great attention was paid to the full-scale reduction of its radar signature, while “ The Sukhoi Design Bureau focused on reducing the radar visibility of the front hemisphere (projection) of our fighter. Such a conclusion is completely untrue. In both fighters, all the elements of the construction of the airframe of the front projection are inclined planes without right angles with a radar absorbing coating. The nose of the fuselage has a multifaceted cross-section with both two sharp side ribs and rounding in its lower part for the maximum possible removal of the electromagnetic radiation from the enemy's radar. Radar blades with active headlamps Н036-01-1 (Ш-121) and AN / APG-77 have some inclination towards the upper hemisphere (for AN / APG-77 around 15 degrees) for an additional reduction of the EPR, but with some loss of its own energy and long-range capabilities when working on targets with humiliation relative to the carrier. True, this slope is capable of well reducing the EPR only against those ground-based or air-based radar systems, which are located relative to the carrier with a decrease of several kilometers, as well as at a short distance of three to five dozen kilometers. Against high potential radars located closer to the radio horizon (250-300 km away), 15 web tilt degrees (4-6% reduction in EPR) will not play a big role.

The F-22A cockpit lantern has a slightly better stealth rating than the T-50 flashlight, which is framed by a single “stripe”. Nevertheless, despite the large area of ​​the machine’s plan, our fighter’s mid-sectional area is only 2,3% higher than the Raptor (9,47 vs. 9,25 м2), which indicates that the fuselage is sufficiently compact with a minimum number of internal volumes. Naturally, the T-50 PAK FA radar signature remains at a decent level, slightly exceeding the Raptor. The only details that can have a bad effect on the effective reflective surface are: a single-cover lamp, as well as a turret of an optical-electronic sighting system OLS-50M.

These questions are also completely solvable: during the execution of a combat operation for target designation in full radio silence mode, the OLPK turret can be turned towards the pilot's cockpit canopy, and its rear part will be made of radio absorbing materials, the cover from the lantern design can also be safely removed. But if everything is extremely clear with the radar visibility of the front projection, the rear hemisphere of the aircraft raises many questions, all of which are unlikely to be resolved.

As mentioned earlier, the aerodynamically ideal glider T-50 has the smallest possible midsection section, which is explained by the traditional fuselage design for all Dryers, where between two air intakes and nacelles is a space around 1,5 m, the inner part of this gap forms a bearing surface a few square meters, thanks to which the lift of the family’s machines increases. Improved flight capabilities with high angles of attack, as well as the angular velocity of the turn. Also, compared with other twin-engine fighters (F / A-18E / F, F-22A "Raptor"), the survivability of the T-50 increases in case of damage to one of the engines. But it has such a construction and disadvantage.

It is associated with the practically "open" architecture of the power plant. The F-22A "Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100" engines are known to be hidden deep in the aft fuselage structure. The T-50's engines are spaced apart in separate nacelles, each of which stands out against the background of the fighter's tail section like a huge "candle". Judging by the photographs, the nacelles are not covered with layers of radio-absorbing materials, and the inner spaces between the nacelles and turbines of the AL-41F engines do not have heat-absorbing materials and air channels of the cooling system to reduce the fighter's infrared signature. The T-50 PAK FA nacelles, in terms of the total area unprotected from radars and infrared optical-electronic means of the enemy, are approximately 3-5 times larger than the angular contours of the Raptor compact nacelles with flat nozzles. We have the result: the open design of the T-50 power plant brings the RCS to 0,5 - 0,8 m2 when the enemy radar is irradiated from the rear hemisphere. In addition, the rapidly heating T-50 PAK FA engine nacelles, especially in afterburner modes, allow the optical-electronic complexes of enemy fighters to detect our vehicle at a distance of about 100 km (when viewed in profile or into the rear hemisphere), into the front IR hemisphere - sensors will detect our T-50 no further than 40-50 km. For the Raptor, these figures will be several times less.

And what can I say, the T-50 PAK FA was created to defeat the enemy located in the PPS during long-range air combat, as well as for super-maneuverable melee air combat, where reduced radar and infrared signatures will not play a big role. The entire emphasis was placed on preserving the unique flight-technical characteristics of all products of the Sukhoy OKB, reducing the front projection EPR for covert rapprochement with enemy aircraft, as well as equipping the new and promising aviation complex with radio equipment superior to the enemy. It is on this issue that the authors of The National Interest showed their incompetence.

THE MOST TOTAL TECHNOLOGICAL PERFECTION OF THE T-50 BEFORE THE "RAPTOR" IS OBVIOUS THAT IN THE WEST ATTEMPT TO VERY HAVE COVERED

In their article, they claim that the onboard radio-electronic equipment T-50 and F-22A has similar parameters. Any knowledgeable person can simply “distort” from such statements. First, YF-25, developed over 22 years ago, passed the modernization path from F-22A Block 20 Increment 2 to Block 35 Increment 3.2B (Milestone-C), although it received the latest versions of software to control various modes of the BRLS AN / APG-77, as well as the integration of the latest types of high-precision weapons, still continues to yield qualitatively in this respect T-50 PAK FA.

The fact is that the element base and the energy capabilities of the onboard radar W-121 are much newer than the electronic database of American AN / APG-77. The detection range of a cruise missile target (EPR 0,1 m2) for our station is 165 - 170 km, for the US - about 115 km. American-promoted LPI mode (with “low interception capability”), in which AN / APG-77 emits a broadband noise-like scanning signal with a pseudo-random frequency tuning, could not be calculated using the outdated radiation warning system SPO-15LM “Birch”, where informing the pilot answered a simple indicator unit with the possibility of tracking the entire 1 of the detected radar complex and 6 classification of radar types. A simple algorithm for the operation of the Birch receiving and computing device could not determine the radiation type of LPI. A more sophisticated STR-type L-150-35, installed on the Su-35, as well as its more advanced analogue, which is part of the T-50 avionics, instead of lamp indicator panels, is used to display all the information of the LCD MFI on the pilots dashboard, thanks to which the pilot may be aware of not only the class of the irradiating radar, but has the ability to identify it. The number of radar types loaded into the digital savings bank is 1024 units (instead of 6 from Birch).

The upgraded L-150 type radiation warning systems have targeting capabilities for radar detectors and MRLS anti-aircraft missile systems for anti-radar missiles, as well as for radio-emitting air targets for missiles RVV-SD / BD. Due to this, L-150 systems are called stations of direct radio intelligence (SNRTR). The American SPO AN / ALR-94 installed on the F-22A also has similar characteristics. The US model has more than 30 passive antenna sensors installed in various parts of the Raptor glider; they work in the L, VHF, UHF, S, G, X, Ka and Ku bands. Agree, the system is advanced, and provides a full-range direction finding of radio-emitting targets with the possibility of targeting missiles AIM-120D and high-precision arms air-to-ground / ship class from a distance of 200 km. At the PAK FA there are not so many passive sensors of open source sensors, but there is a trump concept of the 21st century.


The main on-board radar of the promising unobtrusive T-50 fighter PAK FA - H036 "Squirrel", also known under the code C-121, is shown on the photo. Transmit-receive modules of an active phased antenna array are made of the highest-quality direct-gap semiconductor - gallium nitride (GaN). In comparison with gallium arsenide, this substance has a higher resistance to elevated temperatures and mechanical loads. "Belka" is managed by the most powerful onboard computer H036UVS, the hardware and software parts of which are orders of magnitude better and more productive than those installed on most of the F-22A Raptor fleet


It is represented by additional 4 radar complex Н036 (Ш-121). The first X-band radar 2 (H036B and H036B-01) X-band located directly behind the main antenna array in the nose of the fuselage. They fully provide support for targets located in the side hemispheres of T-50, and allow the pilot to fire missiles with RVV-MD targets using the “over the shoulder” principle even without the OLS-50М and our target targeting system. The range of these radars on typical targets can reach 50 — 70 km. The second 2 radar (H036L and H036L-01) operate in decimeter L-band. They are installed in the toes of the wing and are intended for the detection, maintenance and state recognition of air objects. In addition, the L-band radar has excellent opportunities for mapping the terrain with the detection of even small radio-contrast ground objects. Radar H036L / L-01, theoretically, can be an excellent means for flying in the mode of following the terrain with simultaneous tracking of the sea / land surface and near airspace. The main radar H036-01-1 may not be used at the same time, which will keep the enemy’s aerial reconnaissance equipment in error about the type of aircraft until the very last moment. These radars are irreplaceable when flying at low altitudes in adverse weather conditions, when airborne and container optical-electronic complexes have low efficiency. In F-22A, there is no such means on board, and the AN / APG-77 radar cannot “look into” the side hemispheres: the azimuth viewing sector is of the order of 120 degrees.

It is good to remind about the rear radio transparent container T-50, in which, in an image similar to the Su-34, the 6-i can already be installed in-flight radar for work in the rear hemisphere. Judging by the size of the radiotransparent "spot" on the tail container, a small-sized decimeter radar with AFYAR Spear-DL is installed here. It is used as a station to detect attacking enemy missiles in the tail section. Large missiles can be detected at a distance of 6 km, AIM-120C missiles - from 5 km, anti-aircraft guided missiles of the FIM-92 type ("Stinger") - from 4 km. Fighters are detected from 7-16 km depending on the type and ESR.

"Spear-DL" realizes in one fighter simply enormous opportunities for conducting close air combat and defense against approaching enemy missiles. If the BVB P-73RMD-2 or RVV-MD super-maneuverable missiles are on the suspensions, the T-50 can destroy any potential air assault weapon behind the aircraft: the whole process will be realized only with the help of "Lance". According to unofficial information, the interceptor gas-dynamic control of the P-73RMD-2 and RVV-MD missiles makes it possible to maneuver with overloads up to 65 units, and therefore even anti-aircraft missiles can be intercepted, making maneuvers with overload up to 20G.

If we speak in a more precise language, the radio engineering look of the Russian T-50 PAK FA several times exceeds the officially known qualities of the radar equipment of the American F-22A, the information on which was completely neglected in TNI.

I forgot to mention the absence of the American 5 fighter's generation of an optical-location sighting system (OLPK), which is necessary for covertly conducting mid-range and short-range air battles without external target designation, when enemy fighter radars and REP complexes are also disabled. “Raptor” in a similar situation will find itself in a simply disastrous situation, from which pilots of ordinary MiG-29CMT or Su-27, equipped with optical-electronic sighting and navigation complexes of the first generations, could easily get out. On the future aviation complex T-50, there will be a much more advanced OLS-50M that will easily find the F-22A "Raptor" at a distance of 35 km to the forward hemisphere, but if an American turns out to be relative to the T-50 side, as well as the lower and upper projections, - the range of direction finding will increase from 35 to 60 - 80 km: “Raptor” will be “in full view”, even without the possibility of response detection and tracking of our T-50. This is a basic fact that demonstrates the qualitative superiority of our advanced fighter over the American.

The only positive moment for the F-22A pilot is the presence of the AN / AAR-56 missile launch warning station. The station has a distributed optoelectronic aperture of 7 infrared sensors, symmetrically placed on the upper surface of the air intakes (2 e.), The lower part of the forward fuselage (4 units), and in front of the cockpit lantern (1 units). Miniature thermal imaging cameras are a simplified analogue of a more advanced DAS system installed on the F-35A, and are able to detect and track the launching missiles by the torch of a rocket engine until the fuel burns out. It is unlikely that AN / AAR-56 is suitable for detecting the thermal radiation of jet engines of enemy aircraft on the formless modes AN / AAR-35 (the luminosity of the lenses and the sensitivity of the matrices are not the same). But this station is quite capable of detecting short-range launches of missiles and air defense missiles. By appointment, there is a decent resemblance to the Attacking Missile Detection Station (SOAP) installed on our MiG-XNUMX.

In the middle of their publication, the authors of The National Interest recalled the high capabilities of the Russian military-industrial complex in the development of electronic countermeasure systems, indicating their use on the T-50 PAK FA. And absolutely no mistake. According to these parameters, the American F-22A is repeatedly inferior to the Russian fighter.

The American machine uses the Sanders / General Electric AN / ALR-944 electronic warfare station. As its main radiating antenna, transmit-receive modules (MRP) of the AN / APG-77 radar are used. Due to this, “Raptor” can carry out the sighting of frequency and angular coordinates of interference with an accuracy close to the main modes of operation of the AN / APG-77 radar. AN / ALR-944 can work on target designation of external funds, but the main source of data are the 30 sensors of the radiation warning system and electronic intelligence AN / ALR-94. The Raptor fighter’s REB system is not without flaws: high accuracy of targeting jamming is carried out exclusively within the 120-degree sector of the on-board radar, i.e. only in the front hemisphere. In the rear hemisphere, apparently, the setting of barrier noise interference is carried out by a weakly directed method using small emitters tail elements of the airframe. For setting all-sight sightings "Raptor" will need an EW suspension container, which will definitely increase the fighter's radar visibility, and therefore this option is excluded. This role will be performed by EW F / A-18G aircraft.

The Russian T-50 PAK FA is equipped with the much more advanced Himalaya electronic warfare station. It also uses the energy and physical resources of the H036 airborne radar system (W-121). This suggests that aiming interference can be radiated not only by the main nasal radar, but also by the above-described side-view stations H036B / B-01; in this case, the high accuracy of the interference with the enemy’s radar weapons can also be carried out in the side hemispheres (up to 120-140 degrees relative to the exchange rate direction), which is more than X-NUMX times more than the "Raptor" EW station. The L-band wing radars can be programmed to pinpoint ground-based satellite navigation aids operating in the frequency range from 2 to 1176,45 MHz. "Raptor" obviously does not possess such abilities.

At the end of the comparison article T-50 PAK FA and F-22A, the author recalled the high maneuverability of T-50, achieved due to the deflected thrust vector of the AL-41F1 turbojet engines. It really is. For example, the deviation rate of the thrust vector of this engine is 60 degrees / s, and the deviation angles of the relative longitudinal axis of the engine are 20 degrees. The OVT of our engines is all-round, due to which both Su-35С and T-50 PAK FA, when performing super-maneuverable figures, can perform very vigorous turns in the yaw plane. The American F-22A flat rotary nozzles of the F119-PW-100 engines also deviate by 20 degrees, but only in the vertical plane, and the speed of deflection is only 20 degrees / s, which is why the Raptor maneuvers look more “viscous” "And implemented exclusively in the plane of pitch, which you can observe yourself by watching some of the performances of these machines at Western air shows.

Having listed a number of technological advantages of our next-generation fighter, you should not forget about the existing drawback, which should be eliminated by the time of adopting the first serial T-50 of the VKS units. The turbojet engines AL-41F1 installed on the machines of the first pilot stage give out total thrust in 30000 kgf, the normal take-off weight (with full internal fuel tanks and several long-range air combat guided missiles) at the same time reaches 30610 kg, due to thrust-to-weight ratio does not reach 1 kgf / kg and remains at the level of 0,98. The "Raptor" in a similar situation, thrust-to-weight ratio reaches 1,08 kgf / kg. This means that the American car today can sometimes dominate on the verticals, and also has a slower rate of deceleration during the transition to vertical flight. According to the reports of the head of United Aircraft Building Corporation PJSC, Yury Slyusar, the situation with this characteristic will soon change dramatically from the second stage machines. Fighters will begin to equip the upgraded power plant "Product 30" (modernization of the AL-41F1) with increased to 18000 kgf load, as well as an improved indicator of service life and fuel efficiency. This suggests the preservation of the flight range and a sharp increase in the thrust ratio of the T-50. First time in stories combat aviation of the XXI century, the 5 th generation fighter will reach 0,97 thrust at a maximum take-off mass of 37 tons. With a normal take-off mass in 30610 kg, this parameter will be 1,18 kgf / kg. F-22A will remain far behind.


After installing the 30 Product, the T-50 fully masters the supersonic cruising speeds in the 1,8 - 1,9M. At the maximum operating mode, this TRDDF will be 11 tons, at the afterburner - 18 tons


Tactical moments when comparing two cars also have very great importance in a possible confrontation in the theater of the 21st century. T-50 with 12900 kg of fuel in the internal tanks has a combat range, subject to the application of the regime of cruising supersonic on a certain segment of the trajectory, about 1050 km. If the cruising supersonic regime was not used, the combat radius can reach 1900 — 2000 km, one refueling during the flight will increase it to 2700 km. Without refueling by the PAK FA, having risen from one of the air bases in the Moscow region, it can arrive in the airspace of Denmark, destroy a couple of F-16A and a couple of F-35A there, and then return to the airfield of dislocation. What can "Raptor"?

The F-22A fuel tanks contain 8200 kg of fuel, which is barely enough to carry out a shock operation within 760 km, taking into account the use of supersonic sound. If we take into account the air combat with the enemy, which requires time, maneuvers and fuel consumption, the radius can be reduced to 600 - 650 km with the inevitable use of supersonic cruising speed with a decrease in the troposphere. If the standard flight mode is used at a speed of about 950 km / h, the range without refueling can reach all 1250 km, which is barely enough to reach the western borders of Russia, as well as the Gulf of Finland. Considering that during the period of possible conflict with NATO, the C-400 Triumph divisions and systems will be deployed in the Kaliningrad region and Belarus, NATO refueling aircraft will not be able to support the tactical aviation of the coalition in the Baltic airspace, and military operations will completely fall on the shoulders of the subtle Fighter type F-22A and F-35A. The pilots of the Raptors, with their range, cannot even dream of conducting long air battles near our air borders. In the same turn, the T-50 PAK FA has much more technological and tactical bells and whistles, thanks to which the car can be considered a true "strategist among tacticians."

Information sources:
http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?pid=163171#p163171
http://www.paralay.com/pakfa/pakfa.html
http://www.paralay.com/f22.html
165 comments
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  1. +15
    21 September 2016 06: 49
    What to talk about if these machines did not collide even in training battles? request
    1. FID
      +25
      21 September 2016 08: 16
      I can add and ask: what are these comparisons for - ESR, etc. etc .... What are these aircraft for what ??? For air combat? In it all the electronic ballasts for intercepting bombers ??? this is unlikely ... I apologize, but my opinion - all these generations of 4 +++, 5, 5 +++ and the like - these are games of the mind and in real life they are not needed ... Strategists DO NOT go into the air defense zone, but the long-range ones go , against the dalniks, no EPR is needed, it is needed by the MOST dalnik, not the interceptor ... Intercept the missile ??? Why interceptor small ESR? Here's mine, I apologize for the point of view, as a person, for many years, associated with aviation (including combat) ...
      1. +6
        21 September 2016 08: 39
        Quote: SSI
        Strategists DO NOT go into the air defense zone, but the long-range gunners come in, no EPR is needed against the long-range guns, the long-range gun himself needs it, not the interceptor ... Intercept the missile ??? Why interceptor small ESR?


        yes, but the unlikely f22 can enter with long-range fighters, place them in Ukraine or the Baltic states and the combat radius is quite enough to reach the middle of Russia, so they can very well cover long-range bombers and shoot down interceptors. isn’t that right?
        1. FID
          +11
          21 September 2016 09: 20
          Quote: Thought
          yes, but the unlikely f22 can enter with long-range fighters, place them in Ukraine or the Baltic states and the combat radius is quite enough to reach the middle of Russia, so they can very well cover long-range bombers and shoot down interceptors. isn’t that right?

          Do you believe in this nonsense ???? Or just playing from a sofa on a computer?
          1. +4
            21 September 2016 10: 50
            Quote: SSI
            Do you believe in this nonsense ???? Or just playing from a sofa on a computer?


            the fact that the Americans will place airfields in Ukraine and the Baltic states? And what's so incredible?
            1. FID
              +8
              21 September 2016 13: 09
              Well, yes, yes .... And so ??? And here is the EPR ??? Or did you just poke the clave and that's it ???
              1. +9
                21 September 2016 16: 19
                Quote: SSI
                Well, yes, yes .... And so ??? And here is the EPR ??? Or did you just poke the clave and that's it ???


                you would have something to talk like that if you are a specialist, you would really explain to us why stupid pin_ dos and ours are catching up playing these games with EPR, only they spend money on all kinds of inconspicuous things.
                1. +6
                  21 September 2016 20: 03
                  Reduced EPR allows you to remain invisible to enemy radars for longer.

                  Ours are noticeably limping on both legs and of course it is more politically correct to lower opponents with their EPR and to stick out their maneuverability.

                  And the Americans on the F-35 refused maneuverability in favor of reducing the EPR because the rocket will always be faster and more maneuverable than the fastest and most maneuverable fighter.

                  And there is no pilot in the rocket and it is stupidly cheaper than%)
                  1. +2
                    23 September 2016 18: 47
                    Quote: Krabik
                    Reduced EPR allows you to remain invisible to enemy radars for longer.
                    Our noticeably limp on both legs ......

                    Back in 1983, I heard about the equipment on our aircraft to counter the enemy’s locator. Moreover, one half-cycle is enough to tune in to the enemy’s aircraft locator.
                    And where will the enemy’s missile fall if its locator is clogged with all sorts of garbage?
          2. +1
            21 November 2016 10: 47
            Quote: SSI
            Do you believe in this nonsense ???? Or just playing from a sofa on a computer?

            Namesake, as a former air defense officer, this situation seems quite reasonable to me, why are our people polishing their "diamonds"? It is under such a situation, under the cover of a large carcass, that several small, inconspicuous fighters can enter the zone, for radar this is one mark, and when they realize that there are 7 there, it will be too late.
        2. VP
          +8
          21 September 2016 19: 43
          Quote: Thought
          f22, placed in Ukraine or the Baltic states and the combat radius is enough to get to the middle of Russia

          You have very strange ideas about the middle of Russia
        3. +2
          22 September 2016 19: 02
          And where is your "middle of Russia" for a F22 flight even from Ukraine? !!!
        4. +1
          14 October 2016 20: 50
          Quote: Thought
          therefore, they may well cover long-range bombers and will shoot down interceptors. isn’t that right?

          They will shoot down the MIG-31, and not the T-50. In your version.
          And this is a completely different car.
      2. +4
        21 September 2016 10: 34
        Quote: SSI
        I can add and ask: why do these comparisons


        Quote: Author: Evgeny Damantsev
        In addition, the rapidly heating T-50 PAK FA engine nacelles, especially in afterburner operation modes, allow the optoelectronic complexes of enemy fighters to detect our vehicle at a distance of about 100 km (when viewing in profile or in the rear hemisphere),

        ... not everything is so obvious!
        This would be the case if the T-50 were compared "under all other conditions." However, there are "unaccounted for factors" in the car that are not accepted to talk about. These solutions were also worked out for the Su-30, Su-35 ...
        So, let’s take it as an axiom - not everything is so obvious. Practice will show and prove! ;)))
        1. +2
          21 September 2016 11: 57
          Quote: Rus2012
          So, let’s take it as an axiom - not everything is so obvious. Practice will show and prove! ;)))


          Well, the backs of our fighters are more heated than those that aren’t ours, in principle, with an unarmed look, it’s clear that the engine nacelles are black from incandescence, but there are no western fighters, so we should work on this, we’ve already talked about this with you .
          1. FID
            +17
            21 September 2016 13: 37
            You should know how hot my "back" is when I read this ....
            1. +2
              21 September 2016 16: 04
              Quote: SSI
              You should know how hot my "back" is when I read this ....


              smile something is not clear to you?
          2. +1
            21 September 2016 18: 53
            But you didn’t take into account, rightly noting the incandescence of the engine nacelles, that the enemy is supposed to be detected in the front hemisphere or from the side. THAT is on rapprochement, on collision courses, in other words. Who used to spot that racket and bullet. So this is a little more than an insignificant factor, which should be paid attention to as a disadvantage.
      3. +1
        21 September 2016 10: 53
        I thought, all the same, that these planes are for dominance in the air and not just butt with the long-range.
      4. +2
        21 September 2016 14: 29
        Quote: SSI
        I can add and ask: what are these comparisons for - ESR, etc. etc .... What are these aircraft for what ??? For air combat? In it all the electronic ballasts for intercepting bombers ??? this is unlikely ... I apologize, but my opinion - all these generations of 4 +++, 5, 5 +++ and the like - these are games of the mind and in real life they are not needed ... Strategists DO NOT go into the air defense zone, but the long-range ones go , against the dalniks, no EPR is needed, it is needed by the MOST dalnik, not the interceptor ... Intercept the missile ??? Why interceptor small ESR? Here's mine, I apologize for the point of view, as a person, for many years, associated with aviation (including combat) ...

        Now the main attack aircraft are multi-role fighters. Strategists are such a rare beast that in case of war it is unlikely that any of the pilots will encounter them.
        1. FID
          +6
          21 September 2016 15: 04
          Multipurpose, strike, strategic and other and other ... And now, just think: strike, it should be close to the battlefield, and now the question is - what kind of dick does he need all this EPR for, if Ivan sees him with MANPADS ??? You don’t have to imagine yourself as generals, just think, and the money for designing and developing will disperse without us ... I agree, the latest developments are needed: to increase the prestige of the country, etc ...., but when superjets are developed, etc. .. which, in principle, DO NOT BUY .... Yes, the horseradish plane knows which generation - this is a breakthrough .....
          1. +2
            21 September 2016 16: 16
            Quote: SSI
            but when superjets are developed, etc. .... which, in principle, DO NOT BUY .... Yes, the hell knows the generation of the plane - this is a breakthrough .....


            I'm not the same as a superfood, because there is not enough of ours, but they continue to produce it and that everything is in the warehouse or something? Can't they work at a loss?
            As of April 06, 2016, a total of 110 aircraft were built, of which 8 are pre-production and test aircraft, 93 are transferred to customers.

            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100
          2. +3
            21 September 2016 22: 06
            Quote: SSI
            Multipurpose, strike, strategic and other and other ... And now, just think: strike, it should be close to the battlefield, and now the question is - what kind of dick does he need all this EPR for, if Ivan sees him with MANPADS ??? You don’t have to imagine yourself as generals, just think, and the money for designing and developing will disperse without us ... I agree, the latest developments are needed: to increase the prestige of the country, etc ...., but when superjets are developed, etc. .. which, in principle, DO NOT BUY .... Yes, the horseradish plane knows which generation - this is a breakthrough .....

            What is the use of MANPADS now, if Apache attacks from 4-8 km, and the seediest F-16 20 block goes to 10-12? And how to notice a fighter marching on the 800-900 km / h with an eye from a long distance when there is a shootout on the ground, and is it just a part on vacation? In bad weather at night? The NATO Air Force is primarily trying to deliver nightly strikes so that enemy soldiers do not sleep. SSJ-100 in its class has a good buyability, especially given the prevalence of American Boeings and Brazilian Embires.
      5. VP
        0
        21 September 2016 19: 41
        Aren't you confused with interceptors?
      6. +4
        21 September 2016 22: 58
        Quote: SSI
        What are these aircraft for? For air combat?

        1. A promising aviation complex frontline Aviation - fighter fifth generation for front-line aviation to replace the MiG-29 and Su-27.
        Someone says that he is multi-purpose, someone doubts
        but there is an option with 8 × KAB-500 + RVV-MD for all-weather destruction of ground radars, ground targets such as railway bridges, surface targets
        (I apologize for repeating the obvious) Fighter - a military aircraft, designed primarily for the destruction of air targets.
        It is used to gain air supremacy over the enemy., as well as for escorting bombers, transport aircraft, civilian aircraft, protecting ground objects from enemy aircraft. Less commonly, fighters are used to attack ground and sea targets.
        2. F-22 "Raptor" - multipurpose fifth generation fighter.
        (I apologize for repeating the obvious) MI - designed primarily for "gaining superiority in the air", and if necessary, can strike at ground and surface targets.
        What № 1, what № 2 both for opposing each other, and for attacking ground / surface) targets covered by air defense (or ground radars, air defense systems) - IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE AS LESS EPR.
        Well, let it be your way:
        - a bunch of B-1B (or B-2B) flies to bomb the Motherland, a bunch of T-50 rises to meet them (well, or vice versa, Tu-160, Tu-22M3 fly, and they meet a bunch of F-22). why "heap", and not single I think it's clear (that's another story)
        - a bunch flies, as a rule, when air defense, air defense and other radar systems are suppressed (well, or badly damaged), this is also understandable.
        -Let the bunch fly without fighter cover (it’s strange of course, they didn’t even do that in Iraq), let it be.
        Now for B-1B (AN / APQ-164 PESA + AN / ALQ-153 pulse-Doppler radar):

        and for B-2 B (AN / APQ-181 PESA + something else in DMS AN / APR-50):

        how do you think to detect an approaching fighter with RCS of 10 sq. m or 0,3 sq. m which is "easier" (further, earlier)?
        And then turn it off (all the same, the fighter’s BRD is limited), call for help (cover), etc.
        Well, for the Tu-160?
        PRNK "Obzor-K": The navigation and sighting airborne radar "Obzor-K" installed in the nose of the fuselage serves for navigation and detecting both ground and air targets

        (I apologize for repeating the obvious) Aviation airborne radar station (ARLS) - a system of avionic electronic equipment (avionics), designed to detect air, marine and land objects by radar, as well as to determine their range, dimension and calculation of motion parameters.


        =============================
        somehow think so about
        Quote: SSI
        why in general these comparisons - EPR, etc.

        and not at all
        Quote: SSI
        pokher all EPRs, to intercept bombers ???
        it turns out ..
        Or I'm wrong? hi
      7. 0
        22 November 2016 14: 41
        > Strategists DO NOT enter the air defense zone

        the other day I read an article about the alleged American PAK YES - and so, it should completely fly over Chinese territory and fly into its depth as many hundreds of kilometers
        1. 0
          23 November 2016 16: 37
          here is the link I was talking about:
          http://vpk-news.ru/articles/33631
    2. +2
      21 September 2016 08: 28
      As for radar signature (EPR), it does not exceed 0,05 - 0,07.


      This characteristic of the fighter is now the most important, and how is it known that exactly this scattering area is on f22? This is known only from open editions in the media, so there is no reason to believe in the reliability of this figure, because in war the main principle is "to deceive the enemy." But even if the number 005 is close to the truth, this does not mean that the plane has completely disappeared from the radars of the detection stations, long-wave radars detect such targets too, and given the complete secrecy about the characteristics of the new radars, it is not possible to speak with confidence about some accurate forecasts and comparisons. Long-wave radars are large and therefore difficult to hide on the ground, but I heard our designers are working on this.
      If we consider the PURE Fight one on one between puck and f22, then everything will be determined by real EPR and in the front hemisphere, radar power and weapon perfection.
      1. FID
        +4
        21 September 2016 08: 37
        Quote: Thought
        If we consider the PURE Fight one on one between puck and f22, then everything will be determined by real EPR and in the front hemisphere, radar power and weapon perfection.

        So what???? They just flocked and shot ... What are you talking about? What is the point at all? Protection of the territory? Why use these machines ???
        1. +3
          21 September 2016 08: 54
          Quote: SSI
          So what???? They just flocked and shot


          Well, not just of course, it will be the way the Americans will advance, ours will defend, and the stealth of aircraft and the range of weapons are precisely what modern weapons are striving for. Fights will begin from afar. In future battles there are too many hidden factors such as technical characteristics of radars and the range of missiles, new techniques for using electronic warfare.
          An analysis of such factors is most likely possible only in real battles, therefore there will be a large expenditure of equipment of destroyers, bombers, missiles and it may turn out in the end that will win, the one who just has more equipment, but maybe not. Therefore, there is only one way — to further improve armaments, and again this is to move this most notorious EPR and the range of destroyers and missiles.
          1. FID
            +4
            21 September 2016 09: 20
            Read what I wrote above ....
            1. +8
              21 September 2016 14: 50
              Above you wrote blah blah blah laughing
              1. FID
                +6
                21 September 2016 15: 16
                You very well described your attitude towards aviation ... Keep up the good work!
          2. +2
            21 September 2016 10: 47
            Quote: Thought
            Fights will begin from afar.

            ... this is the key!
            And most likely, if somewhere the T-50 and Fu22 "clash", it will happen rather "accidentally" and in a secondary theater of operations somewhere in a foreign country ...

            If this happens between the "Kamchadals" and "Aleutian" - count, in a quarter to half an hour ALL their runways - will be "aligned" according to the roughest option and without aviation forces ...
            1. +3
              21 September 2016 15: 20
              Air battles between the F-22 and the T-50 will take place at the stage of gaining air supremacy.

              The maximum range of air combat is determined by the detection range of the airborne radar / OLS of the aircraft and the effective range of the air-to-air missiles (the range of the rocket engine).

              The effective range of explosive missiles when firing at highly maneuverable air targets of the F-22 or T-50 type is:
              RVV-DB ~ 75 km
              AIM-120D ~ 45 km

              The detection range of the F-22 with the help of the Belka radar exceeds 75 km. Thus, the Raptor has no chance in long-range aerial combat with the T-50.

              PS In air battles at a minimum distance, the T-50 will also have an overwhelming superiority over the F-22 due to an all-round UVT and the presence of OLS.
              1. FID
                +5
                21 September 2016 15: 24
                Quote: Operator
                Air battles between the F-22 and T-50 will take place at the stage of gaining superiority in the air

                You are my genius ... And why is it? The conquest is ... Are you the chief of the General Staff of the VKS? Further, what, they won, with the help of a small EPR, and what ... Then did the infantry go or tanks? Strategist You are my ...
                1. +2
                  21 September 2016 15: 31
                  Next, eat IFI and PAK-FA.
                  1. FID
                    +5
                    21 September 2016 15: 55
                    Excuse me, do you have a meal? For what purpose? You are surely a SPECIALIST .... therefore, taste it yourself ...
                2. +8
                  21 September 2016 17: 29
                  You are my genius ... And why is it? The conquest is ... Are you the chief of the General Staff of the VKS? Further, what, they won, with the help of a small EPR, and what ... Then did the infantry go or tanks? Strategist You are my ...

                  A strange concept in a person talking about a huge experience in aviation. Is it better not to conquer? better to let the enemy fly? Who has control of the sky, in fact, everything is under control. Aviation is suppressed, enemy air defense is suppressed, EW stations are also destroyed by aviation and that’s all - infantry and tanks go to what remains of the enemy army destroyed by aviation.
                3. VP
                  +4
                  21 September 2016 19: 55
                  Quote: SSI
                  And why is it? The conquest is ... Are you the chief of the General Staff of the VKS? Further, what, they won, with the help of a small EPR, and what ... Then did the infantry go or tanks? Strategist You are my ...

                  Your manner of writing posts using only exclamation marks (sometimes ???) is touching - probably in this way the "critical thinking" is shown to others.
                  But grasping something constructive in this mess of question marks is extremely difficult.
                  Are you upset that the plane is not a tank or something else?
              2. +5
                21 September 2016 19: 54
                Quote: Operator
                The detection range of the F-22 with the help of the Belka radar exceeds 75 km. Thus, the Raptor has no chance in long-range aerial combat with the T-50.

                Certainly not, if the caps continue to fly like that. lol
          3. +2
            21 September 2016 21: 36
            The Thought Today, 08:54
            Man that we smoke!
            What is the range? On TSETBD (and not over the tundra), while maintaining the DB in the air, there will be no place where to turn around on the "PF"!
            Explore the structure of aviation, the number of airfields. How aviation interacts with air defense.

            Without refueling, PAK FA, having risen from one of the airbases in the Moscow region, can arrive in Danish airspace, destroy a couple of F-16A and a couple of F-35A there, and then return to the airfield. What can the Raptor do?[/B]
            [b] I have no words some drooling!
          4. +1
            29 September 2016 17: 24
            Let them criticize - they just don’t have this, that’s what infuriates them. And that he has a flame from a nozzle does not play a role in modern combat. He will have weapons - with a long arm, he will not even go into the affected area. For this, in modern combat, it is not necessary, it wakes up when the enemy has suppressed the entire location connection. Now you can not do without it. Once the dog barks, it means Russia is going right. The main thing is not to be distracted - they will always bark at us. They want to bite - and the teeth are weak.
    3. +10
      21 September 2016 09: 45
      Quote: Bayonet
      What to talk about if these machines did not collide even in training battles? request

      =====
      And here you, my friend, are wrong! They are fundamentally wrong!
      To develop tactics for the use of ANY weapon systems, a clear understanding is required: In what you are superior to the enemy, and in what he is you; How can YOU "get it", and how HE can get you. And it's too late to study this during real combat (the pay is too high - the lives of the pilots and not only)!
      And therefore, such studies have been, are and will be carried out forever and ever. Amen!
      1. jjj
        +4
        21 September 2016 10: 56
        What is most striking is how many people, it turns out, are aware of the aviation secrets of the two states.
      2. +3
        21 September 2016 19: 48
        Quote: venik
        To develop tactics for using ANY weapon systems, a clear understanding is needed: What are YOU superior to the enemy, and what is IT for you;

        That is to have a clear understanding and need a real (albeit training) battle.
        But in words - yes to health, fight! hi
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. +6
      21 September 2016 14: 22
      What to talk about if the T-50 does not yet exist?
  2. +21
    21 September 2016 06: 54
    And again about the opposition of the T-50 PAK FA with the Raptor. More than 22 pieces have been produced in mass production for a long time, the T-200 is not yet mass-produced, and when the new T-50s go to the troops, various sores of the aircraft will begin to appear which will subsequently be corrected. As long as the T-50 is an airplane from the series, if yes if it’s a raptor, it’s a better serial machine, of course it’s better. In general, we don’t have any equipment in it, it’s the best in the world and has no analogues.
    1. +10
      21 September 2016 07: 06
      Quote: Yak28
      .Actually, we don’t poke any equipment in it, it’s the best in the world and has no analogues.

      Typically, Americans also think of their own. wink
    2. +3
      21 September 2016 07: 45
      This is often true. And the exchange of "seriality / advantage" is just a factor of time. Novelty versus aging
    3. +7
      21 September 2016 11: 52
      Yak28
      F-22 for a long time in mass production released more than 200 pieces,

      In fact, the Raptors released 187 pieces. And it is not known how many of them are in storage.
      The T-50 is not yet mass-produced, and when the new T-50s go to the troops, different sores of the aircraft will begin to appear, which will subsequently be corrected.

      Therefore, the deadlines for accepting the PAK FA series have been shifted so that the critical problems that we observe in the F-35 are not revealed in the series.
      and raptor is a serial car, of course it is better.

      Serial production of the dinosaurs curtailed in 2011. And what is it better? Given the cost of the Raptor and the fact that it has been discontinued, in case of conflict and the use of lizards, how will the losses of this fighter be made up for?
      As for the EPR of the lizard and Lightning, their performance is known from the words of mattresses. And as for the T-50, the words of the same author that the PAK FA has more EPR, to put it mildly, have no evidence, therefore that the EPR PAK FA is also unknown.
      1. +5
        21 September 2016 19: 51
        Quote: NEXUS
        Serial production of the dinosaurs curtailed in 2011. And what is it better?

        At least by the fact that it IS and at any moment can be used!
        1. +6
          21 September 2016 20: 11
          Bayonet
          At least by the fact that it IS and at any moment can be used!

          So what? For example, they use his mattresses ... ours beat some part of the dinosaurs ... to replenish the ranks of these expensive fighters, how? And most importantly, even with the hippo replenishment of the Raptor fleet, where will the pilots get mattresses from? Or how during the Second World War, a three-week course and the battle?
          From the fact that the dinosaur is neither hot nor cold. Moreover, the car is expensive and extremely complicated. And to all my questions I’ll add, show me a NATO general who will send these fighters into battle, in which the outcome is unclear and there is a high probability of loss as cars, and most importantly, the pilot.
          1. +2
            21 September 2016 21: 06
            So what? For example, they use his mattresses ... ours beat some part of the dinosaurs ... to replenish the ranks of these expensive fighters, how?

            Well, firstly, it is still necessary to knock down, and secondly, you probably remember how the American industry knows how to work in wartime conditions? Steamers "Liberty" were made as on an assembly line, in 1943, 18 shipyards produced an average of 3 ships per day. Planes, tanks, also baked like cakes! hi
            1. +8
              21 September 2016 21: 20
              Bayonet
              Well, firstly, still need to beat

              Will you forgive me so naive that you believe the mattress booklets about the invisibility of this fighter? Or are our pilots so weak, and the technology is so antediluvian that there’s no way to bring down a lizard?
              I am more than sure that even the same SU-35S with our pilot will stick the Raptor into the ground, just like any other fighter. At the same time, there are air defense systems that are guaranteed to see and bring down this masterpiece of the American aircraft industry for 350 million.
              But you did not answer any question I asked for all this.
              See less advertising mattresses. It may turn out that the lizard and learn to swim. They’ll become with them. Especially after they said that aliens have strongly participated in all the latest achievements of the Russian military-industrial complex. hi
              1. +2
                22 September 2016 05: 34

                Will you forgive me so naive that you believe the mattress booklets about the invisibility of this fighter?

                I am not naive enough to take seriously, hurray-patriotic comments! "We are the most !!!" "Yes, we are them !!!" - similar for "Mikhanov"smile hi
            2. +7
              21 September 2016 21: 30
              Bayonet
              Planes, tanks, also baked like pies! hi

              Tanks that cost, sorry for the irony, five cents per bunch? Or propeller planes, which were often partly made of plywood? At the same time, there were no missiles, not essentially radars in the fighters ... yes, I agree with you, then the Union of 50 thousand T-34s also riveted and IL-2, if I'm not mistaken, about 6 thousand cars ...
              But the Raptor, this is not a Super Cobra, and to teach a pilot to fly a pangolin in three weeks will fail. At the same time, we do not forget about the price for servicing this fighter and add to this the resuscitation of the line of assembly of the dinosaurs (which is not cheap at all). And also do not forget about the specialists who should do this. And believe me, a child on three boxes for the production of the machine will not put.
              So you can safely forget about "baked like pies" in relation to the Raptor.
              1. +3
                21 September 2016 22: 43
                36 thousand pieces of IL-2
    4. +7
      21 September 2016 14: 26
      I agree completely! There is no engine, no aircraft! Wait for the samples to be built for testing, and then a series! It will take about 5-7 years!
      1. +3
        21 September 2016 14: 55
        vadim dok
        Wait until the test samples are built, and then the series! It will take about 5-7 years!

        Not really ... today there is already the 8th BOARD-PRESTERNY. And most likely, from the 17th year there will be the first batch of serial PAK FA.
    5. VP
      +2
      21 September 2016 19: 58
      Raptor is not a serial machine, raptor is a discontinued machine
  3. +3
    21 September 2016 07: 07
    Quote: Yak28
    And again about the opposition of the T-50 PAK FA with the Raptor. More than 22 pieces have been produced in mass production for a long time, the T-200 is not yet mass-produced, and when the new T-50s go to the troops, various sores of the aircraft will begin to appear which will subsequently be corrected. As long as the T-50 is an airplane from the series, if yes if it’s a raptor, it’s a better serial machine, of course it’s better. In general, we don’t have any equipment in it, it’s the best in the world and has no analogues.


    Share the skin of the still-dead bear!
    1. +3
      21 September 2016 07: 28
      They compare the characteristics of aircraft, and not their number and participation in battles.
      1. +5
        21 September 2016 14: 29
        I agree! Just what to compare? A production car with a model without engines and weapons?
  4. +4
    21 September 2016 07: 35
    Yes, time flies once in the school I studied product 89 or al21f3 on the su-24 article of the norms but the f-22 went into the series much earlier. In general, it’s good that in the Russian Federation they were able to make a LHC of such a level that pessimists would not ache there))
  5. 0
    21 September 2016 07: 56
    Interesting data smile
  6. +13
    21 September 2016 08: 22
    Needless to say, the T50 is a machine without which the future aviation of Russia cannot be seen. But in our country at least there is some kind of planning, some kind of economy? Some kind of financial responsibility?
    If officials find tens of billions in apartments ... in the same States, it would be a life sentence with the complete confiscation of property, I’m generally silent about China or Singapore.
    And you say why our pack is better than the American ...
    It is worse than the Chinese j20, because after 10 years, the Chinese will have 1000 pieces.
    And numerically, the Americans and the Chinese will easily crush a dozen t50. Like t-34-85 tigers and stalls.
    The economy and production are at war. What did Bismarck say about the school teacher?
    AND! Well yes! We will ask Tajiks and Uzbeks, they will go to the factories.
    1. VP
      0
      21 September 2016 19: 59
      How scary to live ...
  7. +3
    21 September 2016 08: 24
    small-sized decimeter radar with AFAR "Spear-DL". It is used ...... to detect attacking the tail of enemy missiles. Large missiles can be detected at a distance of 6 km, missiles like AIM-120C - from 5 km,

    AIM-120C - 4M speed, it is -1180,18 m / s. In 4,5 seconds, the system will determine that it is AIM-120C, that it is aimed at the tail, will give a warning to the pilot .... and initiates the launch of a missile defense (or a catapult igniter wassat ) Will the missile defense succeed?
    1. +5
      21 September 2016 08: 37
      Do you think that only you could calculate these numbers now, and the developers of the T-50 systems do not know the flight speed of the rocket and the time it takes to detect it and the response system to operate? Do you really think so?
    2. +4
      21 September 2016 13: 26
      Quote: Corporal
      small-sized decimeter radar with AFAR "Spear-DL". It is used ...... to detect attacking the tail of enemy missiles. Large missiles can be detected at a distance of 6 km, missiles like AIM-120C - from 5 km,

      AIM-120C - 4M speed, it is -1180,18 m / s. In 4,5 seconds, the system will determine that it is AIM-120C, that it is aimed at the tail, will give a warning to the pilot .... and initiates the launch of a missile defense (or a catapult igniter wassat ) Will the missile defense succeed?

      Does PAK FA hang in place? If cruising over the sound, then this is 2M, then throw a couple of seconds, the AIM-120C GSN grabs an object with a 3m2 EPR from 16km, respectively, if you know the T-50 EPR from the back hemisphere, you can find out the capture distance, I'm not sure that 4M is a constant speed, and not the final section after the capture, accordingly there is no reason to believe that the capture will occur before the T-50 detects the missile. The question remains how the initial detection of PAK FA was carried out.
    3. +3
      21 September 2016 18: 55
      In the tail of the T-50 is not the “Spear”, but a new radar with AFAR as a side radar installed in the nose, with a detection range of at least 50 km.
    4. +1
      22 September 2016 00: 48
      Quote: Corporal
      AIM-120C - speed 4М, this is -1180,18 m / s. In 4,5 seconds, the system will determine

      -Vt50 * T-Vaim120 * T = S
      at speed (even) 900 km / h (250 m / s) T-50 after 4,5 seconds will be at a distance of 1 km 125 m from the place from which he found the AIM-120C (under the condition of "doing nothing" and and if the heading angles coincide)
      -BRLS "KOPIE-DL": Time of detection and setting on tracking of approaching objects, s <= 1
      Quote: Operator
      In the tail of the T-50 is not the “Spear”, but a new radar with AFAR as a side radar installed in the nose, with a detection range of at least 50 km

      belay
      Do not write nonsense.
      1.AFAR side view X-band

      here:

      just won't fit
      2. Everyone already "knows" in the "stern" "Spear-DL"
      zone +/- 60 gr at a distance of (MAX) 6 km, for C with EPR EPR = 0,05 m2
      Lance-DL "L-band (dm-band). 16 active T-shaped transceivers are used


      BRLS "KOPIE-DL"
      1. +1
        22 September 2016 13: 14
        I repeat according to syllables: according to the type of onboard radar
        1. 0
          23 September 2016 19: 54
          Quote: Operator
          I repeat according to syllables: according to the type of onboard radar

          well, first of all, "by syllables":
          Quote: Operator
          and the new radar with AFAR type side Radar station

          side! not onboard
          secondly, "by type": why not by the type of any component of the VMIRS T-50? And there five radar posts.
          in the third "Spear-DL", although it is AFAR, but somewhat on other principles of PPM than the sides (this is even visible with the eye)

          The sides (Н036Б-1-01Л and Н036Б-1-01Б) are a truncated version of the N36. And the spear had to be packed in 80 kg, with a small diameter and high Tr and not on GaAs
          Well, in the end, even N036B-1-01L and N036B-1-01B will never be able to

          Quote: Operator
          with a detection range of at least 50 km.

          give 50 km for AIM 120D
    5. +1
      22 September 2016 10: 14
      Quote: Corporal
      IM-120C - 4M speed, it is -1180,18 m / s. In 4,5 seconds, the system will determine that it is AIM-120C, that it is aimed at the tail, it will give a warning to the pilot .... and initiates the launch of a missile defense (or the wassat catapult squib). Will the missile defense succeed?


      Yeah ... and these 4.5 seconds fighter is in place? depicts a stationary target, or also flies somewhere, at some speed, while obviously not tail-ahead ...
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. +5
    21 September 2016 08: 34
    The author painted everything beautifully, only a lot of "maybe worth", "probably installed", i.e. a lot of assumptions about the secret technical stuffing of the aircraft. Another small point that they stubbornly ignore or diligently keep silent, comparing stupidly the numbers for someone who is longer - yes, the detection range of targets with the same RCS is higher for the T-50, but the RCS itself in the F-22 is several times lower, therefore it is absolutely not a fact that the T-50 would detect the F-22 earlier and attack it with its long missiles outside the range of the F-22 missiles.
    1. FID
      +8
      21 September 2016 09: 25
      Alexander Vladimirovich, what are you talking about? Air battles are a thing of the past (maybe not ...), and here is the EPR ??? Fighters do not fight with the EPR, but with the real enemy, plus AWACS, which do not give a damn about the EPR, plus space, from where any take-off of the plane is visible ..... Bredyatina is utter, and sofa Irads, it is possible to poke into the clave ....
      1. +6
        21 September 2016 12: 01
        FID
        Fighters do not fight with the EPR, but with the real enemy, plus AWACS, which do not give a damn about the EPR, plus space, from where you can see any take-off of the plane .....

        Greetings, Sergey Ivanovich!
        All right, say ... yes, but we have not so many AWACS aircraft as we would like. And about the A-100 in the videoconferencing, you just have to dream.
        About EPR, of course, all this is more of a publicity stunt, considering how many systems and complexes are able to give a damn about all EPR and detect any unobtrusive targets at a decent distance ... but as a certain type of passive protection, a small EPR has a right to exist. At the same time, for me, a much more important point in protecting a fighter is the electronic warfare systems, which are the active defense of an aircraft.
        1. FID
          +3
          21 September 2016 13: 06
          Quote: NEXUS
          Greetings, Sergey Ivanovich!

          Hello Andrei!! Yes, I don’t understand these comparisons of EPR, performance characteristics and other nonsense ... I don’t understand and that's it ... Yes, at least compare, but ... there are no real collisions yet ... "what is the bazaar about" ....
          1. +3
            21 September 2016 13: 23
            FID
            Yes, I do not understand these comparisons of EPR, TTX and other nonsense ... I do not understand and that's it ...

            Sergey Ivanovich, I’ll explain to you in your language ... look ... TU-160 when they were developing, certain requirements were set by military designers. This is supersonic for air defense breakthrough, this is the ceiling, thrust-weight ratio, etc. At that time, these were mandatory conditions and they were completed.
            Now about the PAK FA fighters, lizard and so on ... the look of air combat has changed compared to Vietnam, Yugoslavia, etc. ... and for me the most important thing is not the ESR of the carrier, but the TTX of the carrier’s arsenal and of course the radar. Two components - the carrier saw it, the rocket captured ... then the launch and the soul flew to paradise. So if the rocket is able to see and capture an unobtrusive target, and the AFAR is able to see the target at all before they see you, this is in fact a success in any aerial battle .
            With regards to real air battles ... what we have today is the experience of using our MIG-29 and SU-27 against the mattresses F-18/15/16. Based on these data, it can be judged that our aircraft manufacturers are on the right track. And then we'll see.
            The Indian FGFA (double PAK FA) will appear and more information will be available on the results of the Indian exercises with the NATO Air Force.
            1. FID
              +7
              21 September 2016 13: 49
              Quote: NEXUS
              .TU-160 when developed, certain requirements were set by military designers. This is supersonic for air defense breakthrough, this is the ceiling, thrust-weight ratio, etc.

              Andrey, I beg you, forget about the air defense !!!! "Product 70" WAS NOT INTENDED to break through this very air defense ..... Supersonic is needed for the fastest APPROACH to the launch line and "fleeing" from this line ... All other fantasies are for fans of computer games ...
              1. +3
                21 September 2016 13: 59
                FID
                Andrey, I beg you, forget about the air defense !!!! "Product 70" WAS NOT INTENDED to break through this very air defense ..... Supersonic is needed for the fastest APPROACH to the launch line and "fleeing" from this line ...

                Therefore, they developed the X-101 and X-555 ... another question is that the launch range of these missiles should be increased. Then the need to restore the production of Swans will be even more justified. At the same time, do not forget about Lebed’s younger brother, TU-22M3 ... I’m sure that he has far from exhausted his modernization resource.
      2. +11
        21 September 2016 16: 36
        "Fighters are fighting not with EPR, but with a real enemy" ////

        You really do not understand or pretend to be?
        Or do you expect fights with visual contact of the pilots?

        Already in the distant 1982, with most air clashes, Syrian
        the pilots did not see the Israeli planes that attacked them. No secrets.
        Simply, attacked from afar, all eye contact. A rocket flew in from a blue rocket, the pilot ejected if he had time.

        And out of sight of the eye, the radar works - he sees. And he stupidly sees exactly the EPR of the aircraft, and not some "real enemy" whom you imagine. And on this mysterious speck - EPR and explosive rockets are fired.
        1. +4
          21 September 2016 16: 49
          voyaka uh
          You really do not understand or pretend to be?

          He just understands ... but you are a little not. Several points are important here.
          First: a more advanced and sighted AFAR than that of an adversary who would see further regardless of the ESR of the target.
          Second: Arsenal. Seeing further if the rocket cannot capture the target or does so at a time when the enemy can also respond with his arsenal.
          And third: The issue of target designation. We have catastrophically few AWACS aircraft ... and without them, things get complicated at times.
          At the same time, mind you, I'm not talking about the EPR of carriers (fighters). If our fighter EPR is an order of magnitude higher, but all the above points are met, then do not care about the EPR indicators.
          1. +5
            21 September 2016 18: 01
            "AFAR than that of an adversary who would see further regardless of the target's EPR." ////

            What is it like? AFAR has no eyes, he sees what is reflected from the target. If from the goal
            nothing is reflected, then for AFAR the target does not exist, even if it is the size of an elephant. And this "reflection" is the EPR.
            For the radar, the F-15 and Su-27 planes - at a distance "X" this is the site
            10-12 m2, 3,5 m diameter approximately.
            And the F-22, which is the same size as the F-15 - at the same distance "X" is a 0,05 m2 speck, 22 cm in diameter.
            Although a person with binoculars will distinguish between F-22 and Su-27 from the same distance.
          2. +2
            22 September 2016 11: 20
            Quote: NEXUS
            that would see further regardless of the EPR of the target.

            What a nonsense!
            How is it "more .. not dependent on EPR"?

            1. Every real target has a directivity of the secondary radiation, and its reflective properties in the direction of the radar are evaluated some average effective scattering area (EPR) Sefts. This means that the power of the reflected wave is represented by the product of PC · S effc, and the power flux density Pprm of the reflected signal at the location of the receiving radar antenna
            2 Radar Maximum Range depends on the size and reflective properties of the target (Sefts) and, of course, the same radar is capable of detecting a battleship, for example, at a much greater distance Dmax than a fighter.


            Quote: NEXUS
            Seeing further if the rocket cannot capture the target or does so at a time when the enemy can also respond with his arsenal.

            ?
            AIM-120A has a guidance unit WGU-16 / B and GOS with an output power of 500 W. Target capture range with EPR = 3 m² is about 16 — 18 km. And the maximum launch range, 70 km
            R-77 (RVV-AE) 16 and 100 km respectively (for EPR 5 sq.m)
            Quote: NEXUS
            If our fighter EPR is an order of magnitude higher, but all the above points are met, then do not care about the EPR indicators.

            Accordingly, our fighter with "EPR is an order of magnitude higher", all other things being equal, will be detected by enemy AWACS or enemy radar or enemy ground radar at a LARGER range


            http://vsekorni.ru/index.php?stepen=4

            0,1 sq.m EPR F-22 and 1 sq.m T-50
            4 root of 1 is equal to 1
            4 root of 0.1 is equal to 0.56234132519035
            Those. at a DISTANCE of almost TWO (!) times LARGE the enemy (ceteris paribus) will find our aircraft.
            Or you can use a SIGNIFICANTly less powerful radar (inconspicuous, weight, cost)
            and you broadcast (sing along) here:
            Quote: NEXUS
            do not care about EPR indicators.
            .
            Well, stupidity is utterly ill.
            Well, spit on, you would be in the cockpit of our aircraft with "an order of magnitude greater EPR" and ffped (into battle)
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. +2
                22 September 2016 12: 42
                Quote: NEXUS
                decided that to make yourself very smart, sculpting formulas in which, there is a feeling, you do not really understand that ...

                1. I do not need to "twist"
                2. I understand a lot, relax (and have fun)
                3. I will not set a diagnosis for you:
                Quote: NEXUS
                First: a more perfect and sighted AFAR than that of an adversary,who would see further independently from the EPR target.
                fool
                Quote: NEXUS
                If our fighter has EPR much higher,but all the above points are met,then do not care about EP indicatorsР

                fool
                Quote: NEXUS
                this is the experience of using our MIG-29 and SU-27 against mattresses F-18 / 15 / 16

                where is it? when?
                According to official Iraqi data, MiGs shot down two Tornado aircraft and damaged the B-52G (with the P-27P missile) and the F-111F

                January 17 F-15C (MSIP) No. 85-0125, No. 85-0107, No. 85-0108 58th esc. 33 th fighter. US Air Force AIM-7M missiles shot down the 3 MiG-29. On January 18, F-15C (MSIP) No. 85-0122 and No. 85-0014 of the same Air Force unit shot down 2 MiG-29, AIM-7M missiles and in close combat, respectively

                According to data published by the USA and NATO, during the Gulf War 1991 and NATO operations against Yugoslavia in 1999, F-15 and F-16 fighters destroyed a total of 9 MiG-29 fighters without loss on their part.

                According to the book of the Russian Center for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies “Alien Wars”, during the war, the Serbian MiG-29 never managed to use weapons against the enemy

                Except for the Ethiopian-Eritrean war 1999-2000 gg., the Su-27 aircraft did not participate in direct hostilities, although it was involved in air patrols
                Conclusion: balabol
                Quote: NEXUS
                and so on, dear respected it all works toward the adversary, who is also seen by AWACS aircraft, ground-based radars

                dear ... can you read?
                Quote: Just
                Accordingly, our fighter with "EPR is an order of magnitude higher" ceteris paribus will be detected by the enemy’s ARS or enemy radar or ground enemy radar at a distance BIG


                Quote: NEXUS
                What's next?

                Well, a horse in a coat! So it became easier?
                Quote: NEXUS
                Dear, your vyser is verbal, with a claim to intelligence in general about nothing.

                1. Justification?
                2. As for "intellectuality" ... try to re-read your pearls, of course, with a sober head with the textbooks of a comprehensive school, at least for grade 9.
        2. +2
          22 September 2016 13: 06
          Quote: voyaka uh
          And he sees stupidly exactly the EPR of the plane

          Well, not much wrong.
          The radar "sees" the power of the signal reflected from the target (or rather, the power flux density Pfr of the reflected signal at the location of the radar receiving antenna) and the Doppler shift.
          and Pprm is directly proportional to the average effective scattering area (EPR) of Sefts.
          And the EPR (EOP) is essentially the power flux density of the secondary radiation DIRECTED towards the receiving radar (in the case of a single-position radar of the same emitter)

          The effective scattering area (EPR) is fundamental concept in the theory of reflection of waves from bodies of simple and complex shapes. Therefore, stupid statements
          Quote: NEXUS
          who would see further regardless of the EPR of the target.

          Quote: NEXUS
          then do not care about EPR indicators.

          or such "peculiar" applications
          Quote: SSI
          where does the EPR ??? Fighters fight not with EPR, but with the real enemy, plus AWACS, which do not give a damn about EPR,

          mmmm.
          to put it mildly, they ruin the picture of the world and negate all the works of W. Stepp or

          and also make it "useless" well, for example, the weapon control system SUV-VEP "Sword" for fighters of the Su-27, Su-30 series

      3. +2
        21 September 2016 19: 55
        . Sheer nonsense is complete, but sofa Irads have the opportunity to poke into the clave ....

        Yeah !
        1. +2
          22 September 2016 03: 25
          Sorry to insert my five kopecks, but I want to support the SSI. EPR is associated with stealth technology that reduces enemy detection. Voyaka describes the operation of the Arab-Israeli conflicts. But one must understand that the Russian Federation is in a completely different "league". The RF Armed Forces can quickly take control of the radar field of the country or any part of the planet, space and electronic warfare and electronic warfare systems, visual observation and radio control, concentration and massive take-off of the enemy from airfields (without a massive NATO raid). All this in a complex - what kind of stealth is there, and this EPR !? Some radars across the country (RF) are worth something - there is someone to detect and direct without it.
          Why is everyone developing stealth technologies - in my opinion, it is more about composites that reduce the weight of an aircraft ?! This quality seems to me more important, although in the aggregate of these two qualities this is a definite breakthrough.
          This EPR is more important in a face-to-face duel, but where did you see the ideal confrontation? During the Second World War, aviation was raised when the enemy was detected and during air attacks (raids) accompanied by fighters. And flying on a "free hunt" is ... well, you understand (they do not decide anything at the front). To "get hung up" on stealth and electronic capabilities is too much for the United States. "Heaped up" platform F-35 and ... a mizir of shock capabilities (4-6 points of suspension in the internal compartments). hi
          1. +1
            22 September 2016 13: 25
            Quote: Kasym
            . All this in the complex - what is the stealth here, and this EPR!? Some radars throughout the country (RF) which are worth -

            And the range of action (detection) and, accordingly, the WORKING TIME of the air defense system, on what do they depend?

            Either put (if enough money) radar calls every 10-50 km across the field, or ...

            Yes, and air defense systems are vulnerable (emit, the position area is known, quite easily damaged, etc.)

            Quote: Kasym
            Why is everyone developing stealth technologies - in my opinion, it is more about composites that reduce the weight of an aircraft ?!

            weight is secondary (shopping mall is very expensive and not repairable)

            + increases the parasitic volume of the casing + resistance.

  10. +1
    21 September 2016 08: 55
    Good article with all kinds of details. Here are just real battles that do not need to check whether this is so or not. Let it all remain in theory !!!
  11. +7
    21 September 2016 09: 11
    Against the background of such a meticulous comparison, one significant point is lost. The Americans have already removed the Raptor from production, and we have not yet set the T-50.
    1. +2
      22 September 2016 19: 38
      They did not just take it off, but concluded that super-maneuverability in the new fighters was not needed.

      And we are trying to make a clone of their obsolete fighter.

      All this reminds me of the Brezhnev era when, after the launch of the Space Shuttle program, ours began to make Buran.

      I have nothing against ordinary people in KB, who spent all their energy on a useless project, but the stupidity of the leadership amazes me ...
  12. 0
    21 September 2016 10: 02
    Better analysis, but still not complete. For some reason, they put in the forefront who will detect whom before and for this they compare the EPR and the capabilities of the detection stations. But it is necessary to compare the possibilities of capturing the target with the locator of the launched rocket in conditions of low ESR of the target. To discover a little, it is necessary to destroy.
  13. +2
    21 September 2016 10: 38
    PAK-FA, F22 - it's already yesterday.
    We need an 6 generation unmanned vehicle, which people can’t fly on.
    The USA already has a x-47 B deck carrier ...
    1. +1
      21 September 2016 12: 04
      Serzh_R
      The USA already has a x-47 B deck carrier ...

      The program on the X-47B is closed. The USA does not have a drone deck yet. With the same success, we can say that we also have a drone SKAT, the production of Mikoyan.
    2. +1
      21 September 2016 12: 14
      No need 6th generation! 7th already on the way, or do you think everyone tells us? Once they talked about the 6th, it means the 7th is already done! Anyway, there are not far up to 9-10 generations. Oh, let’s heal !!! laughing

      The USA does not have an X-47B, the program is closed, if that. Although the achievements will not be lost, this is for sure.
      1. +1
        22 September 2016 19: 57
        The x-47b flew and landed on the deck - this is a very real prototype.

        There is no stingray and most likely never wakes up.

        I completely agree with Serzh_R, now we are trying to make a clone of the plane that the Americans developed in the 90s and have already taken out of production.
        I will say more, it makes no sense to make an F-35 clone as well, we must somehow develop a war strategy and weapons for it, rather than stupidly clone it like China does ...
  14. +8
    21 September 2016 10: 46
    The main problem of such comparisons is that the real performance characteristics (especially avionics) are not known to anyone for sure, there is a "speculation" from open sources and no one has canceled the outright "disinformation" flowing there ... Well, one more thing, you really need to compare not a "spherical horse in vacuum "- an unlikely one-on-one battle ... And combat interaction in combination with ground and air combat control facilities ... (And here we generally go into a hypothetical plane, because the characteristics and capabilities of such systems are all the more not subject to public awareness) ...
  15. +5
    21 September 2016 10: 48
    no engine yet. everything just "will be". What's the point in comparison if the car isn't ready?

    next hobby-writing article

    ps: and this, author, check the bindings. you write so confidently: "we can replace". could - would have been replaced long ago. there is no such technology in russia. only americans can make flashing lights
  16. 0
    21 September 2016 10: 54
    Cool article. At least something is clear.
  17. +1
    21 September 2016 10: 56
    World War 3 will show whose fighter is better hi
  18. +2
    21 September 2016 11: 49
    Missed the communication capabilities of the F-22/35 with ships, air defense systems, and other aircraft. Possibility to launch anti-aircraft missiles from a ship using the F-35 radar. I hope we have provided such opportunities ....
    1. 0
      21 December 2016 02: 59
      Communication between different types of PLANES we still had in the development of the MIG-31. I suppose now there are already between different branches of the armed forces, etc.
  19. +1
    21 September 2016 11: 50
    And don't forget the 200pcs Raptor (already), and the F-35s are planning 3000 pcs. With not the oldest F-15 and F-16
    1. +2
      21 September 2016 13: 10
      Zaurbek
      And don't forget the 200pcs Raptor (already)

      187 pieces, and not yet, but in total.
      F-35 is planning 3000 pcs.

      The Lizards also planned to plan as many as 700 pieces, and all 187 were produced. B-2 Spirit is in service with the United States 20 pieces, and they planned something around 100. So 3000 pieces they want, and how much they actually get into a big question.
      1. 0
        21 September 2016 14: 03
        F-35 will do, there is no way out. F-15/16/18 needs to be changed to something. In addition to the F-35 there is nothing ....
        1. +1
          21 September 2016 15: 15
          Zaurbek
          F-35 will do, there is no way out.

          I sometimes come to the conclusion that it would be cheaper and more useful for mattresses to resume the production of the pangolin, having only modified the deck version of the F-35 at the same time, and abandon and forget the other two Lightning variations.
          1. +8
            21 September 2016 16: 59
            Andrei, you proceed from the fact that it is more profitable for the United States as a state, and the question should be viewed from the perspective of "what is beneficial to the military-industrial complex is not always beneficial to the state." The example of the F-35 is very indicative.
            The development of the 5th generation aircraft fades for those fictitious reasons, under the pretext of which the Yankees invaded and destroyed entire countries for the sake of their military-industrial complex + with dozens of related targets. So on the military side, maybe you're right, but you can’t sell your F-22s for a knoll .... there is a clear ban on this.

            ps Now various info-sites like BO only do that suck assumptions and speculations from the TNI article. The hype about Armata and its comparison with Western MBT had not yet had time to subside. What's next? Again the Tu-160 and B1, B2? Bradley vs Kurgan? Alien vs. Predator? how much is it possible ????
            1. +3
              21 September 2016 17: 11
              silver_roman
              but F-22 you can’t sell your knots over a hill .... there is a clear ban on this.

              Exactly so ... only I proceed not from the interests of the USA, but from our interests ... I will explain ...
              China buys from us SU-35, India SU-30, in the long run and a double PAK FA ... further on the approach of MIG-35.
              So those states that purchase our new fighter systems will be able to beat the NATO Air Force, without complaining that our fighters are worse. At the same time, the United States will think three times before climbing into an air fight with an adversary who will have enough of our new fighters, and not only, but also the air defense systems.
              Americans then crow at all angles that, thanks to the fabulous EPR, their planes are difficult or impossible to detect ... that's why I said that EPR is optional for our fighters. A good radar is important (if possible better than that of an adversary), an arsenal with more "long arm", which would be capable of capturing any target at those distances at which the enemy would not be able to do it and AWACS aircraft.
              Something like this ...
              1. +2
                21 September 2016 17: 49
                I will note a couple of points:
                1) Indians will not receive a 2-seater PAK FA, but FGFA. Those. I very much doubt that ours will supply them with a full-fledged double version of our future Su - **.
                2) Do you mean to beat the NATO in terms of performance characteristics? Because I don’t remember for a long time about full-fledged air battles. Rather, the presence of modern aircraft (similar in type to strategic nuclear forces) prevents hassles. But I understood your idea.
                3) The Yankee phrase about EPR and the fact that they cannot be seen - marketing. There is an aircraft with 0.0000 (0) 1 RCS at the request of the Yankees. He was shot down for example by S-300V3. Say all the nonsense about EPR? "noooo" - the Yankees will say. It's just that the pilot's qualifications are low. Pay us another ... twenty million and let the pilots retrain with us. Those. in fact, we are unlikely to be able to prove that the ESR is low or meaningless.
                4) At the expense of radars, I personally doubt that we can catch up with the Yankees. They are in the forefront in this matter. I was surprised by the TNI author’s thought of obsolete foot and mouth disease. What prevents, if necessary, improve the AFAR, which was done with all aircraft 4 and 4+.
                5) We have very few AWACS. Compared to exceptional of course.
                Then we have the newest A-50U, did not have time to really buy them, as we are already waiting for the A-100, which is already "just about" .... in short, we are all chasing the horizon.
                But in fact, I have not really seen any competent articles of comparison, at least on the well-known TTX and practical facts of our and foreign radars. Much easier to compare tanks and airplanes. than the most complicated radars! But it seems like we are in the role of catching up. And while very well behind.
                1. +1
                  21 September 2016 18: 14
                  silver_roman
                  1) Indians will not receive a 2-seater PAK FA, but FGFA. Those. I very much doubt that ours will supply them with a full-fledged double version of our future Su - **.

                  You are wrong. Initially under the contract, the Indians outlined their position on the PAK FA program and the further construction of the FGFA in the "twin" version. Well, the Indians do not believe that one pilot can effectively cope with such a complex, even with the help of elementary, let's say, AI. And therefore FGFA will be a PAK FA twin in essence. Of course, I suppose with a very cut radar because of the co-pilot and some other truncated performance characteristics.
                  2) Do you mean to beat the NATO in terms of performance characteristics? Because I don’t remember for a long time about full-fledged air battles. Rather, the presence of modern aircraft (similar in type to strategic nuclear forces) prevents hassles. But I understood your idea.

                  That is, do you not consider an option for the plot of the Vietnamese or Korean scenario?
                  4) At the expense of radars, I personally doubt that we can catch up with the Yankees. They are in the forefront in this matter.

                  Controversial. Your contention that we are catching up is very controversial. AFAR Squirrel that put on PAK FA at least not inferior to AFAR lizard or Lightning. At the same time, Zhuk-A is also approaching. And in the near future and ROFAR. Go to the KRET page and familiarize yourself.
                  5) We have very few AWACS. Compared to exceptional of course.
                  Then we have the newest A-50U, did not have time to really buy them, as we are already waiting for the A-100, which is already "just about" .... in short, we are all chasing the horizon.

                  Here I am about that. And these planes should be built with us in a good series now, in parallel with the design of PAK FA, mass production of the SU-35/30/34 and in the near future MIG-35. Otherwise, there is not much sense in these innovations as they say.
                  1. +1
                    22 September 2016 10: 35
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    And therefore, FGFA will be the PAK FA spark in fact. Of course, I think with a very trimmed radar because of the co-pilot and some other truncated performance characteristics.

                    it will not be pack fa. What type of Club in comparison with Caliber. We will not call club a full caliber?
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    that is, you don’t consider an option for the plot of the Vietnamese or Korean scenario?

                    The scenarios of those wars were possible for several reasons: firstly, the USSR was not so dependent on the 5th column as the lever of internal control (pressure) of the Russian Federation. Also, if you look at the cost of the equipment that took part there, it is cheap compared to gold raptors. Not afraid to lose planes. That and the economic condition was much better.
                    Maybe something like Syria. I would say this is a modern version of those warriors. I personally do not believe in a full-blown war.
                    Although I do not exclude that some hot head from the military-industrial complex may provoke it.
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    Controversial. Your contention that we are catching up is very controversial.

                    We DO NOT have a valid AFAR. That's stupid no. I mean LA. The Yankees have been using them for a long time. Nothing is really known about Belka. NOTHING! Only conjectures of the "garbage" type - TNI. Do you think that we will immediately make AFAR, which will be better than all Western counterparts ???? No.
                    You need experience ... you will see, after the T-50 goes serially to the troops, they will immediately begin to cut some Squirrel-M.
                    Of course, miracles do happen, but I'm not used to believing in them. Above, overly optimistic views always surprised me). About ROFAR - these are so far theories and nothing more. Wait and see.
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    And these planes should be built in a good series.

                    The key word is "must".
                    I have not heard about a large series of AWACS. We purchase by piece and all.
                    1. +1
                      22 September 2016 12: 31
                      silver_roman

                      it will not be pack fa. What type of Club in comparison with Caliber. We will not call club a full caliber?

                      It will be PAK FA, and as I said in a previous post, WITH EXTREME TRIPPED TTX. Like CLUB-K, it’s Caliber, only with very truncated performance characteristics, but still Caliber, and not some other rocket.
                      Maybe something like Syria.

                      Ahead is still Afghanistan, Iraq and Yemen ... and about the high cost of the Raptors ... so there is F-16/15/18 ...
                      We DO NOT have a valid AFAR. That stupidly no. I mean LA

                      Controversial thesis. Nothing that work on AFAR was started back in the 80s in the USSR? And there is experience and experience. And Mikoyanovtsy dealt with this issue, and after in NIIP them. V.V. Tikhomirova work continued ...
                      Regarding Protein for PAK FA, I’ll say that I doubt very much that this AFAR will soon be modernized, as well as ZhUK-A.
                      Above, the overly optimistic views always surprised me)

                      And I do not know how to whine with shouts- "Chief, everything is lost!" I remember the time when the army, the Aerospace Forces and the navy didn’t get anything new at all ... and that was 10 years ago as a matter of fact. And now the rearmament of the army, the navy, the aerospace forces is gaining momentum, and people continue to ask, what is there to be happy about? So compare at least what was 15 years ago and what is now.
                      Just a little further you need to look forward, well, and believe that the truth is ours.
                      I have not heard about a large series of AWACS. We purchase by piece and all.

                      So I have not heard ... and this must be done now.
                      1. +2
                        22 September 2016 12: 58
                        Developments were carried out, but as we see, they have just come to embodiment in iron. I believe that it will be, but that’s an order of magnitude better than Amer’s. Alas.
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        And I do not know how to whine with shouts- "Chief, everything is lost!"

                        I do not suggest whining. Just do not rush to extremes. And what will happen next, we will discuss later.
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        to believe that the truth is ours.

                        So far this does not help us much.
                        There is a monument to Soviet soldiers demolished in "polshostan". And the truth is behind us that 600 of our soldiers laid down their heads. What's the point?
                        Well, okay ... that's another topic. It’s just boiling ...
    2. +2
      21 September 2016 13: 43
      200pcs Raptor (already)
      not already, but in general, since the release is discontinued
  20. +1
    21 September 2016 12: 15
    just write who defeated Them or Ours ???
    sarcasm of course. what kind of collision can be discussed, two planes, if one is accepted for service the second is not. and in real combat and even training they did not meet. Well, ok, except that the characteristics can be compared, and THAT there is a whole bunch of classified ones. what really we will not know for a very long time
  21. +2
    21 September 2016 12: 43
    Russia has only 12 flying Su-50s, against 200 F-22s in the US Air Force, so there’s nothing to compare and no one ...
    1. 0
      21 September 2016 13: 24
      Quote: Phosgene
      Russia has only 12 flying Su-50s, against 200 F-22s in the US Air Force, so there’s nothing to compare and no one ...

      Right, why puffed up? Grind the T-50 to make it better. A F-22 along the way froze in the past. F-35 is another wunderwafer. It flies badly, the combat load is small, but the price? A kilo of gold for a kilo of weight ?! The paragraph is complete!
      1. +2
        21 September 2016 16: 37
        ydjin
        Grind the T-50 to make it better.

        It is important not only to "polish" the PAK FA, but also to purchase the SU-35S, and subsequently the MiG-35. At the same time, it is reinforced to lean on the development of a new AFAR, in the future, ROFAR, in order to see further, to recognize faster. At the same time, update the arsenal of missiles, improving the missile's ability to capture stealth targets, as well as increasing their range.
        If you look, I will agree with a respected SSI. Our fighter can have an EPR and 50m and it will be visible well, but if it has a AFAR better than the NATO ones, it sees further, determines faster, and the arsenal is more powerful, long-range and more efficient, do not care about these EPR indicators, maybe, under such conditions, our fighter will stick a lizard into the ground.
        At the same time, all these polemics of a wretched egg are not worth it if we don’t stop fooling around and start building in the good A-100 series or at least the A-50U. No target designation, no hit.
  22. +2
    21 September 2016 12: 47
    "in confrontation with the best serial fighter of the 5th generation of the Air Force - F-22A" Raptor "" .... rather, with the only serial fighter of the 5th generation ....
  23. 0
    21 September 2016 13: 16
    Not everything is so bad in the state! We keep a potential "friend" in good shape!
  24. +1
    21 September 2016 13: 59
    Quote: SSI
    You should know how hot my "back" is when I read this ....

    You need to be calm and not react so aggressively. Tell me honestly, do you think that you should not work at all to reduce the EPR of an airplane?
    1. FID
      +5
      21 September 2016 15: 21
      To what??? Repeating "Star Wars" ??? For scouts - yes, stealth is needed, but for fighters that beat each other? .. at rendezvous speeds (total) above 2-3M, all this EPR is fiction ... But the reasoning - I'll give those!
      1. +3
        21 September 2016 16: 12
        FID
        For scouts - yes, stealth is needed, but for fighters that beat each other? .. at speeds of approach (total) above 2-3M all this EPR is a fiction ...

        This is a question, and more precisely, of protecting the production of serial SU-35S and MIG-35. In addition to stealth, which is not a priority, these MFIs are almost inferior to the Raptor and Lightning, and surpass them in key performance characteristics.
        They will put on the same SU-35 "product 30", and ROFAR, and it will not be much inferior to the same PAK FA. The same applies to the SU-30.
  25. +2
    21 September 2016 14: 04
    Quote: SSI
    Quote: Thought
    yes, but the unlikely f22 can enter with long-range fighters, place them in Ukraine or the Baltic states and the combat radius is quite enough to reach the middle of Russia, so they can very well cover long-range bombers and shoot down interceptors. isn’t that right?

    Do you believe in this nonsense ???? Or just playing from a sofa on a computer?



    Dear, what are you talking about? And where are the facts or examples voiced at least one argument in your favor. But you offend a person with a keyboard and you don’t even bother to explain why he was wrong. So far as I think you’re probably so much, someone explained his point of view. why not ???? shitty not to evaluate the enemy. and that the Americans we enemies do not go to the grandmother.
    1. FID
      +10
      21 September 2016 15: 39
      I beg your pardon, but I will not "get overwhelmed" ... What facts or examples do you need? Have you already heard about "star wars"? EPR is from the same series ... Who needs it? Here, many "couch" write about the conquest of air superiority, but anyone can imagine what it is? Is this air combat or what? I repeat once again - if a fighter on the ground with MANPADS sees an aircraft - why the hell is this EPR aircraft ??? If two planes at high altitudes are looking for each other - this is the conquest of superiority ??? Forgive me, I have been in aviation for more than 30 years (and in combat as well), but the reasoning on the site about airplanes makes me sad .... I am on the site for 4, maybe 3 years, but NEVER made "competent" statements in topics where I am a "couch" .... I do not talk about firearms, although a hunter, I cautiously give comments about the fleet and tanks, but when they start .... I'd better shut up ....
      1. +2
        21 September 2016 20: 08
        Sorry, I’ve been in aviation for more than 30 years (including combat), but the reasoning on the site about planes is sad.

        And not only about airplanes! Ships, submarines, tanks, flights to the Moon - couch heroes - exposers and "specialists" are everywhere ahead! wink
  26. 0
    21 September 2016 14: 08
    Thanks to the author - very informative
  27. +8
    21 September 2016 14: 09
    You will forgive me, of course, but an article from a series of children's questions - "who is stronger than a whale or an elephant?" In theory, it can be assumed that in years ... tsat there will be a training fight between two representatives of the fifth generation, but at the moment ... With the same success, I can rant how I will beat Nick when I pump up muscles and look like a boxing section for a couple of years. But I (and he doesn't even know about it) perfectly understand the likelihood (or lack thereof) of my ranting ...
    1. FID
      +3
      21 September 2016 15: 59
      You very, I emphasize, very correctly stated the essence of the issue !!!! Big respect to you!
  28. 0
    21 September 2016 15: 03
    In the American F-22A, the flat rotary nozzles of the F119-PW-100 engines also deviate by 20 degrees, but only in the vertical plane, and the deviation speed is only 20 deg./s,

    In addition, F-22 nozzles can only rotate up or down at the same time (both down or both up). For all of ours (including PAKFA) - they may be in a disagreement.
    1. +2
      22 September 2016 13: 58
      Quote: Bad_gr
      In addition, F-22 nozzles can only rotate up or down at the same time.

      can and "at different times"
      https://youtu.be/Y4ZjWFWcDOQ



      2 remote control with 2 independent control circuits. It just doesn't make sense ...
      https://youtu.be/XfPsF6KnR34

      The nozzles are placed too close to each other and to the center of gravity, the nozzles begin to work only at angles of attack greater than 20 gr, while the maximum deviation angle is exactly 20 gr. those. rejecting them in different directions makes little sense.


      For F-22, deflectable nozzles are only used at low speeds and high speeds.
      angles of attack, when the effectiveness of aerodynamic rudders is not enough.

      Quote: Bad_gr
      For all of ours (including PAKFA) - they may be in a disagreement.


      The use of deflectable nozzles increased the mass of F-22 .... by 15 ... 25 kg, while an equivalent increase in the area of ​​horizontal tail would increase this mass by 180 kg
      Symmetrical deflection of both nozzles is used for pitch and roll control to enhance the effect of the horizontal tail at low speeds and large angles of attack
      F-22 not super maneuverable
      1. 0
        23 September 2016 19: 16
        Quote: Just

        2
        Just Yesterday, 13:58 ↑
        Quote: Bad_gr
        In addition, F-22 nozzles can only rotate up or down at the same time.

        can and "at different times"

        I did not see such a regime on the indicated links. On the left-right engine, the shutters are separated in different ways, but this is from the engine operation mode, but to stand up and down at different angles, I did not see this.
        1. 0
          23 September 2016 19: 56
          Quote: Bad_gr
          I didn’t see this mode on the specified links

          Yes, you will not see. It's pointless
          Quote: Just
          , the nozzles begin to work only at angles of attack greater than 20 gr, while the maximum deviation angle is exactly 20 gr, i.e. rejecting them in different directions makes little sense.

          Just 2 remote controls with 2 control loops: they can. But they have not been implemented, as unnecessary + 15-20 kg. What do you want from the pud? wink
  29. +11
    21 September 2016 15: 31
    I read both the comments and the article.
    I just want to note that this analytics is a waste of time. Unaccounted factors can be as many as you like.
    If we talk about the hypothetical case when the T-50 and F-22 clash, then this practically cannot be. At least, the aircraft will be with the followers, and this already complicates the analysis. In addition, reconnaissance counts there, Avax and A-50 ...
    It makes no sense to consider a spherical horse in a vacuum.

    And the phrase still kills me:
    In their article, TNI noted the Russian Federation and China as the current world leaders in the development and production of the best fighter aircraft in the world.

    What kind of nonsense damn it ?????
    China, I would not even refer to the secondary creators of aviation. Any Raffal is much more technologically advanced and more perfect than any Chinese fighter, if only because the Chinese created only the 3rd generation of their own.
    The copied Su-27 (su-33) does not count.
    China is far behind the engines, on the AFAR I didn’t hear anything from them at all, that they drew 2 gliders, one of which copies the raptor - NOTHING SPEAKS ABOUT.
    It is not difficult to draw an angular glider. But talking about its EPR is ridiculously simple.
    In general, to the furnace. The fact that they can stamp everything in a row is yes, but do not overestimate the manufacturability and reliability of products.
    1. FID
      +3
      21 September 2016 16: 21
      I support you, Roman!
    2. +4
      21 September 2016 20: 20
      "China is far behind on engines" /////

      China has declared this direction a "national challenge"
      and is going to invest in R&D and production of aircraft engines
      300 billion dollars (!) For 20 years.
      So after 20 years I don’t know who will buy engines from anyone.
      1. +1
        22 September 2016 09: 53
        Quote: voyaka uh
        So after 20 years I don’t know who will buy engines from anyone.

        After 20 years, either the donkey will die or the paddies.
        1. +3
          22 September 2016 13: 44
          "In 20 years, either the donkey dies or the padishah" ///

          It’s planned in Russia, and the US Congress approves
          strategic planning 30-50 years in advance. Presidents, Congressmen and Senators
          change, and strategic programs extend and
          funded. Take a look at the Nimitz aircraft carrier programs,
          Trident systems, nuclear submarines.
          And the Chinese are the same. In 1987 Deng Hsiao Ping proclaimed "capitalism
          with a socialist face. "And - forward. After 30 years (now) -
          China is the number 2 superpower. And after 20 years, there will probably be number-1.
          1. +2
            23 September 2016 12: 57
            [quote = voyaka uh] China is superpower number 2. And in 20 years, there will probably be number-1. [/ Quote]
            [Quote]
            In 1980, no one could even imagine that the USSR would fall apart and planned for decades to come.
            Man suggests and God disposes.
            1. 0
              16 March 2017 14: 05
              There is no scientific evidence for this hypothesis (of God). In addition, do you propose to abandon planning?
              It's like a blonde from a joke who called the probability of meeting a dinosaur on 50/50 street;)
      2. 0
        22 September 2016 11: 12
        Even if China masters the analogue of the Su-35s engines, the backlog will decrease sharply and the quantity will turn into quality.
  30. 0
    21 September 2016 15: 36
    And the article is a good and informative definite plus
  31. +3
    21 September 2016 18: 03
    "The car received one of the most beautiful camouflages in the Russian Aerospace Forces" Shark "" ////

    She received a beautiful camouflage, but there is no radio-absorbing coating yet.
    1. +1
      21 September 2016 20: 48
      But what about VK-6 + varnish like NTs.
      http://www.findpatent.ru/patent/255/2553284.html
      For several years now, "smart" people have covered the license plates of cars in Moscow radar detector paint for $ 900 per jar wassat
  32. +4
    21 September 2016 22: 31
    Quote: SSI
    Quote: NEXUS
    Greetings, Sergey Ivanovich!

    Hello Andrei!! Yes, I don’t understand these comparisons of EPR, performance characteristics and other nonsense ... I don’t understand and that's it ... Yes, at least compare, but ... there are no real collisions yet ... "what is the bazaar about" ....


    To understand, you need to see how they simulate (conduct exercises) in an air force formation, or better to combine it with the combat use of an aircraft, I start with "getting out of the attack." Know tactical techniques based on the performance characteristics of the aircraft, and not only the aircraft. Small RCS with large Dpusk possible. missiles (although it is possible to disrupt the capture) is a serious argument.

    In IA (in fact), the pilot is blind, independently making a decision by accidentally discovering (with permission to turn on the scope) and identifying the CC, he cannot. The fighter pilot receives the command (task) from the CP, VzKP about the Goal. It can be redirected. Range PR from 100 km or more from the front line when maintaining the database - this is from the field of sofa theory, when flying in the west. Siberia 1 000 000 x 1 000 000 km.
    Couch boys (in view of the inaccessibility of reading vultures. Literature) do not know at what distance (and why) from the Front there are airfields where the IA is based. And what kind of mess happens during the conduct of VBOs (we read the definition of the VB) with tactical units, and not only on the control unit channels.
    I suspect that the author-theorist of the article is unfamiliar with the definition of Rub. Interception (and there are several of them), is not aware of the existence of MV RLP, has no idea how "easy" work with an eye on the maneuvering CC (and two weakly ???), piloting an aircraft. Those "does not distinguish UA from US-I". In general, an informative article "go with beer"
  33. +1
    21 September 2016 23: 21
    And again Daman 8)
  34. +1
    22 September 2016 00: 55
    Quote: SSI
    To what??? Repeating "Star Wars" ??? For scouts - yes, stealth is needed, but for fighters that beat each other? .. at rendezvous speeds (total) above 2-3M, all this EPR is fiction ... But the reasoning - I'll give those!

    Stealth should not be confused with stealth. Smart people talk exclusively about the latter. No matter how powerful the radar of the same AWACS is, this only suggests that in the event of a possible "skirmish", an enemy aircraft with a reduced ESR will most likely be seen later than an aircraft without such technologies. Yes, technology is advancing right now, but we don't have many radars for detection and monitoring. And if you develop your logic, then in the same way you can pose the question, they say, why bother to put AFAR in a fighter, but why would he need such a powerful radar?
    And further. If you think that you know the topic very well, understand it and everyone else is illiterate, then explain to people in normal language, in fact, and not by answering questions to a question with endless "???". Respect the rest of the members of the forum who have to read you.
    1. +3
      22 September 2016 06: 00
      Voyager rights
      FID sometimes it’s light delirium :) either a troll or a non-staff aerodrome technician :) .... thoughts of only one category: a bullet - a fool, a bayonet - well done.
      1. +3
        22 September 2016 12: 48
        [quote]: a bullet - a fool, a bayonet - well done. [quote]
        Thank you .... hi
  35. +1
    22 September 2016 00: 57
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Russian Aerospace Forces "Shark" "////

    She received a beautiful camouflage, but the radar absorbing


    Warrior, how did you determine this by eye?
  36. 0
    22 September 2016 03: 30
    The article is not bad, but analytics is at the level of rumors and assumptions, knowing that the Americans always wind up the values ​​for the better, and ours for the worse ... The accuracy of the forecasts is infinite.
  37. kig
    0
    22 September 2016 05: 22
    And again about nothing. PAK has not yet been adopted, still undergoing testing, all its wonderful properties have not yet been confirmed by practice. Let's argue about the taste of oysters ... with those who ate them (M. Zhvanetsky)
  38. +4
    22 September 2016 11: 51
    Quote: silver_roman
    I read both the comments and the article.
    I just want to note that this analytics is a waste of time. Unaccounted factors can be as many as you like.
    If we talk about the hypothetical case when the T-50 and F-22 clash, then this practically cannot be. At least, the aircraft will be with the followers, and this already complicates the analysis. In addition, reconnaissance counts there, Avax and A-50 ...
    It makes no sense to consider a spherical horse in a vacuum.

    Why then full-time radars on every modern fighter, if everything is so smooth with avax and drlo? Do you realize that we have a few similar systems?
    The decrease in the EPR is not in fact the invisibility with which the comrade of the SSI is trying to emotionally flaunt. So it could be stated in the golden years of F-117, and that, only in the context of underdeveloped countries where radars are created from bananas on palm trees. In all other cases, we are talking about stealth, the level of which is achieved by reducing the EPR. Below the EPR - the greater the minimum distance at which the aircraft will be visible on the radar. Here they say satellites, reconnaissance, all things, so tell me how are you going to capture and fix targets directly in battle, especially in the distant? AWAC is a good thing, but how many of them do we have? I repeat - units.
    In total, we have: all the leading aviation powers are working to reduce EPR and increase the power of regular radars, but you and the SSI comrade still claim that this is all rubbish, do I understand it correctly?
    1. +2
      23 September 2016 11: 15
      Quote: Voyager
      Why then full-time radars on every modern fighter, if everything is so smooth with avaks and drills

      I'm not saying that everything is smooth. It’s just that the probability of meeting one on one tends to 0. And as an example, I cited the presence of an additional slave or AWAKSA / A-50, backlighting from the ground, etc.
      Established radars are undoubtedly needed ... but not only for target detection, but also for guiding missiles, target illumination. As I understand it, on the T-50 they want to implement a common system for the battlefield, where each aircraft will be a kind of command center and broadcast all the data from its board to the common network.
      From here we come to the conclusion that there will be no 1 on 1.
      Quote: Voyager
      EPR reduction is not in fact invisible

      Oh really? and I thought LA ​​was actually disappearing. wassat
      It is clear that the EPR is designed to reduce the radar visibility of the aircraft, and not visual.
      And something in the words of the SSI, I did not see the thesis that the minimum EPR is actual invisibility. In a pinch, quote.
      Quote: Voyager
      how are you going to capture and fix targets directly in battle, especially in the far?

      Already wrote above about the general info field for equipment (not only for aircraft participating in the battle in this area.
      AWAC is one of the options. Why do not you take into account ground tracking stations, which are much more powerful ?!
      Quote: Voyager
      In total, we have: all the leading aviation powers are working to reduce EPR and increase the power of regular radars, but you and the SSI comrade still claim that this is all rubbish, do I understand it correctly?

      In general, you fundamentally do not understand everything correctly. I show it more: you also come up with some kind of nonsense, ascribing your inventions to both me and SSI!
      I just said that comparing the two complexes does not make sense for the reasons described above. Let one have the best characteristics, but this will not always play a decisive role. The presence of certain systems (for example, OLS) can play a much greater role in a certain situation than say the high power of the AFAR. This is a single example, which may be hundreds.!
  39. 0
    23 September 2016 14: 20
    Quote: silver_roman
    From here we come to the conclusion that there will be no 1 on 1.

    Have I ever said something about "1 on 1"?)

    Quote: silver_roman

    Oh really? and I thought LA ​​was actually disappearing. wassat
    It is clear that the EPR is designed to reduce the radar visibility of the aircraft, and not visual.
    And something in the words of the SSI, I did not see the thesis that the minimum EPR is actual invisibility. In a pinch, quote.

    Oh you, where did I talk about the visual component? You yourself would quote first, instead of writing nonsense)) I rephrase, since you do not understand. There is no such thing as invisibility, regardless of whether the ESR is low or high. Neither in the visual nor in the radar, but as I have already said, Comrade SSS persistently uses this concept and usually in the context of accusations against others. There is stealth. The better this parameter (low ESR), the shorter the detection and registration distance will be, which means that the target will be captured later. In other words, regardless of whether the radar is operating on a fighter or ground / AWAC, an aircraft with stealth technology will require a shorter distance to be detected by the enemy, if we talk about those radars that are currently on duty (I don’t take into account new prototypes, working on a different principle)

    Quote: silver_roman
    Why do not you take into account ground tracking stations, which are much more powerful ?!

    Because
    1) We have few AWACS.
    2) Ground modern Radar is also small
    3) They can be destroyed by tact. Weapons or the same stealth bombers, which, according to their doctrine, are designed to break through the enemy’s dense air defense. How can bombers go unnoticed? See point 2. We do not have accurate data on the time of their EPR, they always flew with Luneberg lenses.
    4) They will not help if actions are taken away from the Russian Federation.

    Quote: silver_roman
    In general, you fundamentally do not understand everything correctly. I show it more: you also come up with some kind of nonsense, ascribing your inventions to both me and SSI!
    I just said that comparing the two complexes does not make sense for the reasons described above.

    Oh really? We look at the facts. You directly support the position of Comrade SSI. Ie you agree with him. Comrade SSI, in turn, repeatedly beats his heel in the chest, that stealth technologies are not needed, because they do not make sense. It was? It was.
    Quote: SSI
    In it all the electronic ballasts poher to intercept bombers ??? it is unlikely...

    Quote: SSI
    no EPR is needed

    Quote: SSI
    Why interceptor small ESR?

    Here are quotes, and such a sea, you can continue on. Smoothly from criticism of discussions and comparisons of EPR, a fellow SSI in fact proceeds to criticize the very idea of ​​reducing EPR. Well cool, what can I say)

    Quote: silver_roman
    Let one have the best characteristics, but this will not always play a decisive role.

    Pass this to Sukhoi Design Bureau, maybe they will listen to you :) So far, fools, yes, set a goal to catch up with the Raptor in this parameter, so as not to be inferior.
  40. 0
    27 September 2016 15: 05
    The question is in what time frames and in what quantity our VKS will be armed with PAK FA.
    And how soon pilots will be trained on these machines. Work out all the required tactical moments. The United States has and remains several hundred F-22, and they are not the first year in the sky.
    Even with the Su-35 PAK-FA park, they will not be blocked so soon.
    We walked only half the way.
  41. 0
    4 February 2017 21: 46
    No one will say which EPRs the T50 and F22 have (we will not discuss the F35 because their main task is to support the landing) .With similar characteristics of the radar, our RVV-SDs lose the AIM-120C-7,8, however, in range, the goal will again depend on the EPR. The smaller the EPR, the longer it will take to accompany the rocket and be most vulnerable.
    It seems to me that here we are catching up because target capture by these missiles with an EPR of 3m sq. 18-20km.
    When a rocket is launched at a speed of 3,8 M at a range of 200 km to a lesion of approximately 52 seconds, with a rocket speed of 4,5 - 44 seconds.
    With mutual greetings no one will survive, when playing with one gate, the pilot will have time to eject.
    Hence the conclusion, it is better if you are not noticed and not shot (if you do not come up with missile defense .....) hi
    1. 0
      16 March 2017 00: 46
      Judging by the test T-50 EPR to the front, it is definitely more, because turbine compressor blades are visible (it does not have S-shaped air intakes). At the 22nd radar, it can operate in LPI mode.
  42. 0
    16 March 2017 00: 42
    All this is good, BUT the production of Su -... combatant (as PAK FA will be called) is postponed for .. 20s, product 30 and radar also slip. All existing T-50s have test gliders. A F-22-x about 200 units built (and are discussing to resume production).
    On the superiority of the Russian element base .. But why then do we buy this "base" abroad?
  43. 0
    23 March 2017 02: 49
    What is the conversation about? Compare pacfu with real airplanes? There are no closets and most likely never will be.
    1. 0
      23 March 2017 02: 51
      Quote: Grandfather Mykola
      There are no closets and most likely will never be

      - where is she going to get to?