“Chinese interest in Mriya is exaggerated and overblown”
“MC-21 is already the next height that the Russian aviation industry has taken. This is the level of modern Western aircraft, ”said Soviet and Ukrainian aircraft designer Anatoly Vovnyanko, who had been directly involved in the creation of the Antonov aircraft family for more than three decades, told the newspaper VIEW. He commented on the problems of the Ukrainian aviation industry and was glad for the Russian success.Ukrainian aviation the Antonov group, which for decades has been an integral part of the Soviet (and in fact Russian) aviation industry, promises to gain absolute independence in 2017 from Russian materials and components in the new-generation An-family aircraft being marketed.
“Next year we plan to complete the program of import replacement of Russian components, which we started in the summer of 2015. Relevant agreements have been reached with suppliers from Europe, Canada, the United States and Ukraine, ”said Alexander Kotsyuba, President of the concern. “After that, mass production of new aircraft will be launched. Including the construction of serial An-178 will begin, ”he assured.
Recently, "Antonov" generates a huge flow of informational occasions. They agreed with the Chinese to build the An-225 Mriya, the world's largest transport aircraft, which has existed in a single copy since Soviet times. That "Antonov" threatens to ban foreign flights of Russian An-124. So the company talks about multibillion-dollar contracts for the supply of its aircraft abroad.
Did the Ukrainian aviation industry really spread its wings so widely after it broke all contracts with Russia? Anatoliy Vovnyanko, who worked for Antonov for many years, spoke about the real state of affairs in the Ukrainian aviation industry in an interview with VIEW. Now the aircraft designer is retired, but he is still worried about the fate of the Ukrainian aviation industry.
In 70 – 80-s, Anatoly Vovnyanko led the division to create new alloys and semi-finished products for the An-124 aircraft, in 80-x the service of the leading designers on the Ania-225 “Mriya” aircraft, from the end of 80's and 2006 was Deputy Chief Designer for An-218, An-124, An-124-100, An-225, An-325 aircraft and their modifications, as well as aerospace systems.
VIEW: What do you think is the interest of the Chinese to the famous An-225? Maybe it contains technologies that are still not known in the PRC?
Anatoly Vovnyanko: I’ve been working on this aircraft since 22 for almost a year. He is of no interest to the Chinese either for military or transport purposes, and here's why. An-225 was created on the basis of An-124 for the transportation of various rocket and space carriers, primarily for the OK "Buran". The ship should be located on the outer suspension of the upper fuselage. Therefore, the Mriya, in contrast to the An-124, does not have a rear cargo hatch. Loading cargo through the front gruzolyuk. First, it is a very long process. Secondly, through it they load mainly mono-loads of large mass, of which there are few in the world. Because any single cargo weighing up to 130 tons quietly transports An-124-100.If we talk about the transportation of general cargo on pallets, pallets and containers, then both “Mriya” and “Ruslan” are significantly losing to special cargo airplanes created on the basis of passenger airplanes, for example Boeing-747. Their cost of transportation is much higher.
Now, if the Antonov leadership didn’t sleep, when the Stratholanch aerospace system was created in the USA, then the Mriya could be interesting. Because for such unique tasks this aircraft was created.
There are no technologies that could interest the Chinese either. An-124 was created at the end of 1970-x - the beginning of 1980-s, and this is the donor of all technologies for An-225. In addition, after the collapse of the USSR at the beginning of 90's, the Chinese on the cheap have already bought everything that interested them. In 2009, I lectured in China and found out, although they carefully concealed this, that the Chinese had already begun to create their own transport plane, Y20. And they used many technical solutions IL-76. They also had a lot of information on the C17, A400M and An-70 aircraft, including drawings. In terms of technology, these planes are much more interesting, since they were created much later. At that time, a specialist from the USA was working in China, who participated in the design of the C17 rear loader. Yes, and with the Russians, we met there. It seemed to me that they participated in the creation of the fighter.
Therefore, the interest of the Chinese to “Mriya” is exaggerated and inflated by the media. Some unknown Chinese logistics company signs a framework agreement with Antonov. This has been done more for public relations, the management of Antonov has now become the stars of Ukrainian TV. I do not exclude that they promised something to the Chinese for this fake. Who now remembers that no planes are being built in the country?The project looks unreal, it is not economically feasible. This Chinese company will go broke the next day, as soon as it completes the first aircraft. The cost and time even just completing the construction of the second aircraft is very large, and mass production is generally pure fiction. And what will be the cost of operating a single aircraft in China, on which everything is installed in a single copy? The Chinese are not fools in this regard, unlike us.
VIEW: A few years ago, even under Yanukovych, Russia offered Ukraine to create a joint venture for the production of An aircraft. The proposed exchange of shares. However, Ukraine refused - as I understand, fearing the takeover of Antonov Design Bureau by Russia. Were there any other reasons for refusal than political?
A. Q .: Who would give the hen that lays the golden eggs? Ukrainian state-owned enterprises are used by officials as troughs, so no one shares them. Previously, Antonov brought great profits thanks to Antonov Airlines, extending resources and modernizing old aircraft, a contract with NATO on using An-124-100 aircraft, providing engineering services, etc. For example, Antonov helped the Chinese to create aircraft.
At that time, “Antonov” was “protected” by the Prime Minister under Yanukovych. The management of Antonov was sitting on large financial flows, and in order to remain in their positions and steer these flows, it gave bribes to the Prime Minister and his entourage (Mykola Azarov was prime minister at the time of Viktor Yanukovych - approx. LOOK).
And in the Ministry of Industrial Policy, which was subordinate to Antonov, Azarov’s appointee, Vladimir Ryzhov, Deputy Minister of Industrial Policy, was involved in aviation, who had no idea what aircraft building and corporatization were. Then Dmitry Kiva (the general designer and from 2008 of the year, the head of Antonov - approx. LOOK) took him to himself, where he still wipes his pants for a lot of good money.
At the same time, the Ukrainian government did not completely defend the Ukrainian aviation interests in Russia. Ukraine, and in fact Balabuev, created at its own expense the An-140 and An-148 aircraft and transferred the documentation to Russia for free, where these aircraft began to be mass-produced in Samara and Voronezh. However, if the Superjet-100 was provided with huge financial and administrative support from the Russian authorities, then An-140 and An-148 turned out to be orphans. The Ukrainian government had to point out unequal conditions of competition, get support from the Russian government, including budget, production and leasing sales of An-140 and An-148.
Instead, Ukrainian officials at the filing of Kiva only signed fake protocols about the resumption of production of An-124 aircraft and the start of production of An-70. While it was clear to everyone that this would never happen. After all, the An-140, An-148 and An-158 aircraft on 70% consist of Russian components, on 99% of Russian materials and were produced in Russia, and Russia only paid royalties.
VIEW: Ukrainian aviation industry was in the deepest crisis. Could Ukraine, in principle, take place as an independent aviation power after the collapse of the USSR?
A. V .: And it took place when Balabuyev Pyotr Vasilyevich was in the position of the general designer (he died in the 2007 year - approx. LOOK). During his time in the Independence Square, An-38 aircraft were developed in Ukraine, along with Russia - An-70, An-140 and An-148. And after all, the majority of Ukrainian airplanes were produced in Russia, and this was the main market. Another thing is that when, after a change in the leadership of Antonov in 2005, government officials began using the company as a “trough” and a means for public relations, the aviation industry in the country fell into disrepair.
VIEW: That is, cooperation with Russia was still important for Ukraine?
A. V .: Yes, the Ukrainian and Russian aircraft industry is like Siamese twins: there are two “heads” and one “body”. And the largest part of this "body" in Russia.
The Ukrainian aviation industry took place also thanks to relations with Russia. All materials, most of the equipment and components and, most importantly, the production and purchase of new aircraft - it's all mostly in Russia. Antonov did not even know how to sell itself: in recent years, sales of the Ukrainian An-148 and An-158 aircraft were carried out through the Russian leasing company Ilyushin Finance by Alexander Rubtsov.
Yes, and all Ukrainian aircraft - An-38, An-70, An-140, An-148 - were developed primarily for the Russian market. An-140, An-148, An-158 aircraft were first launched into serial production in Ukraine, and then produced in cooperation in Russia. From the beginning of 1990 to the beginning of 2005, Russia itself did not create new aircraft in civil and transport aviation, all Russian development firms were in a very poor state.
VIEW: How successful, in your forecast, will be the "import substitution", which was engaged in the state enterprise Antonov, which broke ties with Russian subcontractors?
A. V .: Yes, in the West they will do everything - just pay. But how much will it cost? And it is still necessary to re-conduct certification work and much more. After all this, the price of the aircraft will be such that there will simply not be anyone willing to buy it.
VIEW: How do you assess the prospects for the production and sale of aircraft "An" at the moment? Do contracts with Azerbaijan for the purchase of 10 An-178 and with Saudi Arabia for the purchase of 80 An-132?
A. V.: I do not have all the information, so I make conclusions based on the analysis of messages in the media. In 2015, the Antonov leadership did tell tales that they have orders for X-NUMX An-100 aircraft for 178 billion dollars. It was reported that they signed a contract with Azerbaijan for the purchase of X-NUMX An-4 aircraft. Then in the Ukrainian media wrote that two aircraft will be built in Ukraine, and eight - in Azerbaijan. This is bullshit. You can believe this only if the Azerbaijani side officially confirms this.
Ramp airplanes are a very specific product, and selling new planes will be very difficult. In addition, on many important characteristics, An-178 is significantly inferior to the well-known An-12 and С130, although they were created as many as 60 years ago. Even the Chinese aircraft U9 has the best characteristics.
And how did you actually sign this paper with Azerbaijan? I met by chance with Soldatenko, the former first secretary of the CPSU district committee of the city of Kiev, and now an adviser to the general designer at Antonov, who told me about it. He was familiar with the general director of the Azerbaijani airline Silk Way and flew to him to sign a document with ten bottles of luxury vodka, bacon and other hotels. On the way, two bottles of vodka were stolen by a member of the crew; it almost blew off an important mission. As a result, the documents are still signed. But such papers in this way, Dmitry Kiva signed over ten years on all aircraft. But where are those multi-billion dollar contracts now?
As for Saudi Arabia, the question is still open. Now, according to media reports, work has already begun on the construction of a plant for the production of An-132. But it remains to be proved that An-132 meets the requirements of the Saudis. A similar deal has already been with Iran on the An-140 aircraft, but in 16 years only 11 aircraft were built, if I'm not mistaken. But, unlike Saudi Arabia, Iran is an industrialized country. So wait for the promised 80 Saudis aircraft will take a very long time.
VIEW: Are there really problems with the new An-178? Reported problems with centering. There were, however, then reports that this is a fake and in fact the aircraft is regularly tested and confirms the characteristics laid down. How do you assess the prospects of this aircraft?
A. V .: At first I somehow calmly reacted to these reports. Although there is no smoke without fire. "Antonov" after the An-70 20 years did not design the tail of the fuselage with a rear cargo hatch and ramp. And over the past 13 years, many professionals have left the company. Therefore, it is quite possible to make a mistake either in calculations for centering, or in the process of creating an aircraft weighted the tail section. But finally I believed in this mistake after the appearance of a comment and article on this topic by the head of the Antonov flight department, a first-class test pilot Yevgeny Alexandrovich Galunenko.
He assured that problems with centering are stuffing, that for years already 30 have been using a cheap and angry trick - they carry ballast in the form of metal plates in order to make maximum weights on an empty plane. But all he writes is sheer incompetence and lies. First, on the published photos, it was clear that the metal plates were disguised and fastened with a special device in a niche in front of the cockpit. Secondly, what about about 1300 kg of ballast and maximum weights? Third, no one else in the world, including Antonov, has ever used metal plates in test alignment flights. "Antonov" mainly used blocks of concrete, special cast iron ingots and self-propelled equipment. And how to fix 15 tons (this is the maximum load capacity) of metal plates in an airplane, if they do not even have holes or attachment points?
And yet, and most importantly, the ballast water system can significantly reduce the time and cost of testing, and not metal plates. These are the “experts” who are now in leadership positions at Antonov State Enterprise, and you are still asking why the An-178 aircraft turned out to be so problematic.
I want to say that when we built An-225, we also had such problems - during the design process, we overloaded the tail section, so we drove an aerodrome service car to the nose. But then during the flight tests we were able to expand the range of rear alignments from 45% to 47%, and the need for ballast disappeared. Therefore, the real expert would simply acknowledge the existence of such a problem in An-178 and explain that it would be solved during flight tests prior to the start of serial production. Then everyone would have forgotten about it.
VIEW: How do you assess the threats of the Antonov State Enterprise to ban Russian An-124 flights if they do not undergo an extension of the resource in Ukraine?
A. V.: On the one hand, I simply answer this question, since I was involved in its creation, but on the other hand, it’s difficult, because I know the current conflict only from the media. From the very beginning of the creation of this aircraft, all involved were like one family that raises a child - An-124 aircraft. Therefore, there were very warm and constructive relations both with the serial factories and with the airlines - everyone wanted the child to take place. And it took place thanks to Balabuev, who brought the aircraft to the international freight market. Volga-Dnepr Airlines has become the most important operator of An-124. We were very friendly, but sometimes there were financial conflicts. One such global conflict occurred at the beginning of 90, when the airline decided that Antonov should extend the An-124 resource for free. Then they simply did not understand what intellectual property means. But then they solved the problem.
In general, the Volga-Dnepr has done a lot for the An-124 aircraft for their mass production at the Aviastar plant. And they pay huge money to Motor Sich and Antonov for extending resources and upgrading aircraft.
I do not know what the essence of the conflict is now. But in the last year it was clear to everyone that the An-124 military aircraft operating in Russia would be renewed by the OKB Design Bureau. Ilyushin, and commercial - "Antonov". If someone in Ukraine violates this rule, then he is a complete moron and causes enormous damage to his country and aircraft industry.
VIEW: Are the rumors that the European military transport aircraft A400M was created thanks to the cooperation with Antonov (claimed that the An-10X key technologies were transferred or even stolen) justified?
A. V.: After the collapse of the USSR, An-70 was not needed by anyone, since neither the Russian nor the Ukrainian military had any money. Since this was the first aircraft created under Peter Vasilyevich Balabuyev after he became the general designer, he was very worried. And when in Europe they began to discuss the idea of creating their own military transport aircraft, Balabuev saw this as a chance. He made a lot of efforts to promote the An-70X plane to Europe through Germany, which took into account the requirements of NATO strategists.
His institute friend, the late General Designer of the Progress ZMKB engines, Fedor Mikhailovich Muravchenko, warned him that nothing would come of it. But it was necessary to know Peter Vasilyevich: he did not retreat before difficulties, but overcame them. Therefore, a whole team of chief designers and leading experts traveled to Germany, who showed and told the entire ideology of the aircraft.
But in Europe they decided that they would not give their budget funds to any foreigners. Even when the American firm Pratt & Whitney, which has extensive experience in creating turboprop engines, offered Europe to develop an engine for the A400 for a much lower cost, they refused. Mainly because of the development of this engine, the timing of the creation of the aircraft was then disrupted, because the development of a good engine takes longer in time than the aircraft itself. And even now a problem has emerged in operation there.
VIEW: So the technology was sold or not? Or did the Europeans just copy them? Or is there generally no Ukrainian technology involved?
A. V.: Ideology and technology are completely different concepts. Ideology is how to do it, conditionally, landing or reserving systems and much more, and technology is how to make, for example, a wing from composite materials. So, Antonov showed Europe his ideology and how he solved problems. And Airbus has already developed a plane using its technology. Still, in terms of technology, the West has always been ahead of the rest. This aircraft was made taking into account the huge experience of Airbus in the passenger aircraft industry. Therefore, they went ahead. Take at least the wing - we had it metal, and there it was composite.
VIEW: How do you assess the state of the Russian aviation industry? Superjet MC-21 - how much are they in line with the modern global aircraft industry?
A. V .: There was such a wonderful Tu-334 aircraft, it only needed to be brought to mind a little. And Russian officials launched the "Superjet", which, judging by the publications in the Russian media, gobbled up so much budget that it would be enough for two such projects and still would be left. Balabuev created almost the same An-148 aircraft mainly at his own expense and is cheaper in 10 – 20.
Of course, at the initial stages in the “Superjet” it was full of “childhood diseases”, and it was overloaded. It was very difficult to find in Russia a sufficient number of qualified specialists, and mass production was scattered throughout many plants that had never made such modern passenger aircraft. Therefore, there were many problems. But now they have decided. If Sukhoi GSS will provide service support and supply of spare parts for all operators, and not just for the Mexican airline, then everything will be fine.
As for the MC-21, this is already the next height, which took the Russian aviation industry. This is the level of modern Western aircraft. But the main word for the operators, they will give a real assessment of this aircraft. If the Superjet operating experience is taken into account, then everything will be fine.
VIEW: I understand that not entirely your specialization and you did not touch this aircraft, but do you think IL-114 has any prospects?
A. V .: I do not know the current real state of the regional transportation market in Russia. On the one hand, this is a huge country, in which there is no aviation at all, but on the other, from where in small towns do people have money to fly airplanes? The IL-114 aircraft is an old one, but a good one, since it was made in the USSR, when Genrikh Vasilyevich Novozhilov was the general designer at the Ilyushin Design Bureau, and there was an excellent design school. The engine, however, is not so hot. Preparation and launch of the aircraft in the series in Russia will cost a lot of money.
Of course, it would be better in Russia to produce the An-140 aircraft, which was mass-produced in Samara. We just need to upgrade it. But now you can only dream of such a thing.
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