Sea fortresses

141


Ocean lords have become,
You are not the brainchild of darkness or light.
You are only power. You are beyond morality.
Though not everyone realized it.



And the descendants will know,
Noble lords of steel,
And they will learn how
You died in battles!


New visitors to the forum ask all the same old questions. I don’t know where this delusion comes from about the inefficiency of large highly protected ships, but it’s a shame for the heroes of the past.

They fought, won, bled to death, so that a century later, the home-grown “experts” would write everyone down into useless trash. Among the beaten stamps - “they stood in the bases”, “they were protected and were not allowed into the sea”, “they were no longer built”. Well, let's start with the last.

Giants loved everything, but especially the Americans.

Since joining the war, the US has built 24 highly protected warships, incl. The 8 battleships, the 2 battlecruisers and the 14 heavy cruisers (TKR) of the Baltimore type.

What does the heavy cruisers? Ha, despite the fact that the “Baltimore” was two meters longer than the battleship “South Dakota”. A man who has only general ideas about the Navy is unlikely to distinguish such a cruiser from the battleship at all.

Sea fortresses

"Baltimore" and man (if viewed in a magnifying glass)


How were such giants born? In contrast to the pre-war "freaks", the TKr of the war years were built in the absence of international restrictions, and as a result they "flipped" to unprecedented size and combat power. Measured by 17 — 20 thousand tons. By the way, this is the total displacement of the legendary “Dreadnought” (only if you put them close, the “Baltimore” would have been longer on 40 meters).

Structurally, the TKr and LK still had differences: the caliber of the battleship is larger, the armor of the cruiser is thinner. However, from the standpoint of our days, that one that the other had transcendent military resistance. And the creation of such ships was a real scientific and technical achievement. Forces and means for their construction were not spared. They invested in them in full.

As for the official classification, it can be thrown into the trash. Look at the real TTX, and not on the stickers.

Someone will remind you of differences in tactical use. Come on! During the years of the Second World War, TKr and LK always walked “by the handle”, often falling under the crossfire of each other. Approximately as in the presented illustration (the campaign "Bismarck" and TKr "Prince Eugen").



Remember, who tormented “South Dakota” in the night battle at Guadalcanal (most of the hits - 203 mm shells of Japanese cruisers). Or the composition of a ragtagged Japanese compound, breaking through with the battle into Leyte Gulf. High firepower, speed and exceptional resistance to battle wounds allowed them to operate in a single unit.

Cruisers and battleships had more in common than differences. And speaking of some, we must somehow take into account the existence of others. All of them were monstrously large, expensive and difficult. Let someone more, someone less. The battleships also differed in size sometimes twice (30 thousand tons at Queen Elizabeth, 45 thousand tons at Littorio, 70 thousand tons at Yamato), but they are still considered to be a single class of battleships. So why are not smaller, but technically less sophisticated ships not participating here ?!

If you break away from the usual classifications, you can talk about the so-called. “Floating fortresses”. To which can be attributed all the large highly protected ships with predominantly artillery weapons, born in the period of the First World War, between the two wars and during the Second World War.

We go further.

Realizing the uselessness of “floating fortresses” on the example of Pearl Harbor, the Americans continued to build such ships throughout the war. And built later: a series of “Baltimore” followed by even more formidable “Oregon City” and “Des Moines”. As well as light cruisers of the “Worcester” type, which turned out to be even bigger and longer than the “Baltimore” itself! Sailors with irony called these monsters “well, very big light cruisers” (another confirmation that the official classification is often a lie). A unique feature of the “Worcesters” was the horizontal (deck) defense, superior in mass to all armored belts, traverses and barbets: the ship was created to counter air attack weapons.

Let us return, however, to the main topic of our conversation. Unexpectedly, it turned out that “floating fortresses” were still being built. And they were built in indecently large quantities. So big that when the war ended, the winners simply did not know where to put them. Part of the surrendered to the reserve. And, of course, they stopped building new ships - until the advent of the rocket weapons.

Dear reader, of course, will not believe and pounce with criticism. Indeed, at the height of the war, no one but the USA built battleships. Which is quite natural. All developed powers built their battleships and TKr even before the war. And then, of course, they did not have the strength and resources.

Royal Navy

Britain before the war put into operation five new LCs such as “King George V”. The composition of the "combat core" fleet also included relatively fresh “Nelsons” arr. 20s and the legendary 270-meter Hood battlecruiser. And that's not all.

In the period between the world wars, the British led to more or less modern LCR “Rinaun” and “Repals” standards (they were modernized so seriously that they received the nickname “Rebuild” and “Ripair” in the fleet).


"Rinaun"!


Also, five battleships “Queen Elizabeth” with 15-dm were extensively upgraded. main caliber guns. Outstanding was the project. The “Quinas” that belonged to the First World War epoch turned out to be so steep that they could confidently fight the battleships of the 30's. Time, of course, took its own - the “Queen” revealed problems (speed, PTZ), but there was no need for fire and protection in the surface part of the board.

Total: 15 ready for battle sea monsters (of course, not counting the others, who did not have time to go through the modernization of vessels, left over from the time of WWI).

Heavy cruisers, which would make sense to mention in the framework of this article, the British did not have. All pre-war projects are deliberately weakened “Washingtonians”, somehow narrowed into limited 10 thousand tons of standard displacement. This is not “Zara”, not “Hipper” and not “Mogami”.

Kriegsmarine

The Germans didn’t sit around either, having given birth to four battleships and three more exotic “big cruisers” with caliber 280 mm guns, which received the ironic nickname “pocket battleships” in the pre-war years.

In addition to these freaks, the fascists laid another five heavy cruisers like the Admiral Hipper. So heavy that their crews (1400-1600 people) surpassed in numbers the crews of the battleships of the First World War. More people served on every German cruiser than on the heroically lost “Hude”! The stakes were great.

Nobody thought that the Germans would be able to restore their fleet so soon. They were not forced to sign international agreements prescribing strict restrictions on the displacement of ships. As a result, the Nazis built really huge cruisers, surpassing their peers, "Washington" on average 4000 tons.


Captured by Americans TKR "Prince Eugen" (deactivation of the surviving cruiser after the atomic explosion on the at. Bikini)


As befits all German “vundervaflyam”, cruisers had an excessively complex structure. In absolute prices 30's. “Hipper” cost 2,5 times more expensive than the British heavy cruiser “London”.

The entire displacement reserve was wasted. Why? About this one must ask the German “superhumans” themselves. For example, the Americans managed to build much more balanced cruisers in the same dimensions. Of course, six years of age difference, but to compare “Hipper” with “Baltimore” is just a shame (despite the fact that “Baltimore” is just the development of pre-war projects, devoid of artificial restrictions, which the Germans didn’t have initially).

However, the funds were spent. Huge ships built (4 + 1 unfinished “Lyuttsov” sold in the USSR). From the modern point of view, despite the existence of even more advanced designs, “Hippers” were scientific and technical achievements. Total at the beginning of the war the fascists had 11 modern “floating fortresses”. Very modestly even by European standards.

Navy

In Italy, they were seriously preparing for a naval war. Three new battleships of the type “Littorio” have become the pride and beauty of Regia Marina. Modest by world standards, an outstanding project, which nevertheless had all the advantages of a large, ultra-secure ship.

Also, the Italians used a creative approach, upgrading the five old battleships of the First World War. The work was carried out serious, the power unit of the battleships increased by 300%. It is clear what extensive changes in the design led such experiments. The towers were shot, armor plates were installed, the modernization of the old “Cesare” came out as half the cost of building the new “Littorio”. Why did they do it? The Italians have only two convolutions in their heads, and those - spaghetti. Modernization did not make the “old men” at all equal to the new battleships. Although it increased their combat capabilities very significantly.

In the interwar period in Italy were built four more highly protected ship, TKr type "Zara". Contract "Washingtonians", favorably distinguished from foreign peers remarkable armor protection. It was possible to combine security with high speed and classic armament of the TKr of that era due to a clear violation of the terms of the Washington Treaty. All this led to very funny consequences.



One of the "Zar", going to emergency repair in Gibraltar, did not fit in the dock - where, according to the documents, was supposed to get up without problems. As they say on the Internet, epic failure. The British learned the truth, but it was too late.

In total, at the beginning of the war the Italians had whole 12 “floating fortresses”.

Imperial fleet

Japan stands on the edge of the world, but its technological level is ahead of many. At the beginning of the war, the valiant sons of Amateras built two impregnable fortresses in the ocean - the Yamato type battleships. And before, in 1920, everyone was surprised once again by building the world's first type of battleship with 16-dm. the main caliber is the great “Nagato”.

In addition to this “magnificent four”, at the time of Pearl Harbor, the Japanese had eight more modernized battleships and battle cruisers of the WWI era (Fuso, Ise and the Congo, which had no relation to the African country). The upgraded battleships were unrecognizable: the Japanese were jokingly putting 10-floor superstructures on them, changing the armament, the GEM and the battleships booking scheme.



Heavy cruisers were a special pride of the Imperial fleet. They brought on their decks a lot of loud victories and in the majority lasted until the last months of the war.

It is worth highlighting 12 cruisers, four projects: “Myoko”, “Takao”, “Mogami” and exotic “Tone”. Earlier types (“Furutaka” and “Aoba”) are too easy and primitive, therefore they are not related to conversation.

A dozen samurai can be attributed to highly protected ships with some stretch: their protection was clearly weak, compared to the rest of the ships mentioned in this article. Although even in that form, the Japanese TKr demonstrated exceptional combat strength, unattainable for modern ships. The most powerful torpedo-artillery armament - in this parameter the samurai surpassed all their opponents. Power plants with a capacity greater than that of battleships. 35 speed nodes. Crews outnumbered 1000 + people. Everything indicates that we face the next armada of “sea fortresses” with rebalanced characteristics in the direction of speed and fire.



How did this all fit into the established 10 thous. Tons? Yes, nothing. The Japanese cheated as best they could: at first nobody paid attention to the fact that the waterline “Mogami” did not pass where it should be, the side too high rises above the water (the ship is structurally underloaded). With the beginning of the war, the Japanese broke the masks and put on the cruiser, instead of six-inch, new towers with 8-dm. “Broads”. The Mogami project was originally intended for this.

In all, the Japanese had 26 large protected ships, and their fleet as of 1941 was the strongest in the world.


Heavy cruiser "Tikuma"


Well, stupid ...

The only ones who “kicked the cotton” during the interwar period were the Yankees. His last battleship was laid there in the years of Perovoi World, and then for the whole 15 years they did nothing. Apparently, they hoped for the strength of their diplomacy, which shackled Japan with the shackles of maritime treaties (after all, the Japanese were not busy with a good life with the rusty battleships of WWI, instead of building new ships).

By the beginning of the war, the US Navy came in a depressing state - with a pile of “standard battleships”, whose caliber and low speed (21 knots) did not allow them to operate effectively in the new era.

However, the Yankees woke up quite quickly, built a pair of North Caroline LCs before the war and made up for lost time with unprecedented speed.

Epilogue. Findings.

A) Large, well-protected surface ships were available in sufficient numbers in the fleets of all developed countries.

B) Those who could, built such ships throughout the war and even after the end of WWII.

C) TKr and LK occupied their tactical niche. Protected ships have not lost relevance with the advent of aviation (rather, as practice has shown, vice versa). They are the only ones who could hold out under increased enemy fire.

How the sea giants fought will be described in the second part of the material about the “sea fortresses”. Not afraid to kill the intrigue, I will say right away: they fought nicely.

Or did someone seriously think that these majestic masters of defense, air defense and long-range combat modestly stood aside? Endowed with immense strength, inflexible and tenacious, like terminators, they were not afraid of anything and went where any “one-time” light cruiser / leader / destroyer could not have walked a dozen miles. The command was well aware of their capabilities, so they were sent to the inferno.

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  1. +28
    14 September 2016 06: 52
    Lord, you open VO in the morning and here are opuses from Mr. Kaptsov. As always, pathos, fanfare, the sounds of heavy steel being exploded by a projectile of 15 inches and above. The article is not about anything. Mr. Kaptsov just likes battleships. I also like them very much, but I remember very well how Yamato fought against US Navy squadrons and I always remember the ratio: "2498 crew members died, including the squadron commander and the ship's captain. In total, in the battle, in addition to the battleship, 4 destroyers and a cruiser were sunk, and the total death toll reached 3665 people. In the last battle, the Yamato shot down 5 aircraft and damaged 20, the entire formation destroyed 10 aircraft: 4 dive bombers, 3 torpedo bombers and 3 fighters - not too expensive a price for the death of the pride of the fleet and escort ships. In total, about 10 torpedoes with 270 kg hit the Yamato. "Torpex" (equivalent to 400 kg. TNT) and 13 aerial bombs, 250 kg each. "
    1. +12
      14 September 2016 07: 17
      Quote: D-Master
      As always, pathos, fanfare, the sounds of heavy steel bursting by a projectile of caliber 15 inches and above. The article is not about anything. Mr. Kaptsov just likes battleships.

      Lord ... How I agree with you. winked And I like them, battleships with cruisers, but I do not class them as at least one class, as here at Kaptsov's - "floating fortresses"! wassat
      "Exotic" Tone "." Tone was considered by the Japanese to be almost the crown of cruiser construction, and so it came out, because the Japanese were still playing games with an agreement on the limitation of naval weapons and had to reduce the displacement, which led to changes in the layout. Since the Japanese had their own views on the tactical use of cruisers, different from Kaptsov's, they built what they thought was necessary, and not what in the future Kaptsov would describe as "exotic" lol
      Personally from me (this, naturally, my personal opinion), the article is a gorgeous minus! Therefore, as part of the site, nothing hi
      Ps. It is not bad for youngsters to write something in their brains fouled by iPhones and iPods on a naval theme, and for adequate and thinking people, it’s decently annoying nonsense with fitting facts to their evidence. Kaptsovsky style request
      Nothing personal, just an opinion smile
      1. +8
        14 September 2016 07: 42
        Welcome Andrew hi ! Well, you have the right word, this is KMB for new visitors to VO, Kaptsov speaks directly about this ...
        New forum visitors ask all the same old questions

        My father is already 92 years old and he very scrupulously watches ads and writes down the names of medicines in a special notebook, it is almost impossible to prove to him that all this bullshit! .So Kaptsov's "ADVERTISING ENGINE OF TRADE"
        1. +5
          14 September 2016 10: 12
          Quote: Serg65
          My father's already 92 of the year

          It is completely uninteresting to us.

          Pro ships have something to add?
          1. +1
            14 September 2016 12: 17
            Swords for battle, Oleg!
            However, from the standpoint of our days that the one that the other had exorbitant combat stamina
            From the standpoint of our days, combat resilience is nothing - aviation / RCC is everything. One call does not work, we repeat. And yes, how are they protected against modern nuclear submarines? HOW even have them?
        2. +2
          14 September 2016 12: 38
          Quote: Serg65
          Well, you have the right word, this is KMB for new visitors to VO, Kaptsov speaks directly about this ...

          My regards hi I absolutely agree with you.
    2. +9
      14 September 2016 07: 42
      Quote: D-Master
      2498 crew members were killed, including the squadron commander and the ship's captain

      I don’t know what "specialists" sculpted these opuses, but military cruisers and battleships have always had ships and cruisers and battleships have always been commanded by ship commanders. And ships with captains were always in the auxiliary fleet, well, or in hospital wards, though these were without captains ...
      1. +1
        14 September 2016 12: 20
        Most likely this is a reprint from the literature. Kaptsov couldn’t go that far. lol
    3. +20
      14 September 2016 07: 45
      Quote: D-Master
      Lord, you open VO in the morning and here are the opuses from Mr. Kaptsov.

      Why grumble in the morning, no one forces you to read, if you do not like it. There are many headings on the site. A man is passionate about big ships and writes about them with love, what's wrong with that? I've been reading his articles with pleasure, well done!
      PS. And in general, to scold and criticize the work of another, maybe someone who himself has done something worthy. I think so hi
      1. +10
        14 September 2016 08: 23
        Quote: Bayonet
        A man is passionate about big ships and writes about them with love, what's wrong with that?

        My friend, Alexander, no one forbids Oleg to love battleships and armor, for God's sake! But if you love something, then love honestly and do not mislead people and do not impose your point of view on them!
        The towers were removed, armored plates were installed, the modernization of the old Cesare came out as half the cost of building the new Littorio. Why did they do this? Italians have only two convolutions in their heads, and those are spaghetti. Modernization did not make the “old men” at least equal to the new battleships. Although it increased their combat capabilities very significantly.

        What new battleships? Who was a potential enemy for Italians? Germans? The British with the Americans? Of course, we can agree with Kaptsov .... ohhhhhhhhhh and the Italian battleships were so much inferior to the Japanese battleships, macronics what to take from them? They only have spaghetti in their head! wassat But will it be true?
        And in general, one who has done something worthy can scold and criticize the work of another.

        I have given part of my life to the defense of the Motherland and consider it worthy, raised two beautiful sons, probably it’s also worthy, didn’t let many people fall to the bottom of life, probably it’s also worthy, I try to behave honestly with others, probably it’s a decent quality ! Is it worthy to stick out one thing and still keep silent about the other, covering it with your love for something or something? hi
        1. +1
          14 September 2016 10: 04
          Quote: Serg65
          I’ve given part of my life to the defense of the Motherland and consider it worthy, raised two beautiful sons, probably it’s also worthy, didn’t let many people fall to the bottom of life, probably it’s also worthy, I try to be honest with others, probably it’s a decent quality !

          All this is beautiful and worthy of respect. hi but in this case, I had in mind the literary genre.
        2. +3
          14 September 2016 10: 10
          Quote: Serg65
          Who was a potential enemy for the Italians?

          British fleet - with a full range of possible threats: bomber and torpedo aircraft, submarines, minefields, numerous flood ships with artillery and torpedo weapons


          Despite all the costs of upgrading, the updated Cesare could not withstand these threats. In contrast to the new battleships (Littorio), he did not have adequate protection either in the surface or in the underwater part of the board — the armor belt was generally submerged, the thickness of the PTZ was incomparable.

          Speed ​​and firepower also left much to be desired. So why throw away money if you can build a new, much more balanced ship - the benefit of technology in the 1930-s. significantly improved since the time of the WWI
        3. +1
          14 September 2016 16: 41
          Quote: Serg65
          Who was a potential enemy for Italians? Germans? The British with the Americans?

          always customized for the French.
      2. 0
        14 September 2016 09: 15
        Yes, it was always interesting to read Oleg. Romantic theme, photographs of warships. And even in spite of the topic he repeatedly described, I always put him advantages, because I also really love this topic. Not a dupe, but a classic of VO.
        But, honestly, after his "opuses" about ekranoplanes, I began to treat him in a completely different way and did not give more advantages.
    4. +1
      14 September 2016 09: 03
      I agree with you, and more than once I tried to prove to Mr. Kaptsov the baselessness of the battleships at the present time. Useless. Then there were planes and torpedoes. And what a huge loss the crew of this fortress !! And now there are powerful anti-ship missiles, capable of sweeping ALL living and non-living from the deck, which at least somehow extends beyond the citadel. Just making them incapable. And if battleships appear again, then it is not difficult to develop a new heavy hypersonic RCC with a nuclear charge. And 20 of such missiles will cost much less than one battleship. And then the loss will be 100%. Together with the battleship the whole team will evaporate, escort ships will not help either.
      Yes, and modern torpedoes are not a couple of the time.
      1. +2
        14 September 2016 10: 03
        Quote: Wedmak
        more than once he tried to prove to Mr. Kaptsov the groundlessness of the battleships at the present time.

        What you brought a number of counterarguments. A rather comprehensive answer was given to each of the questions you asked.

        If you couldn’t object to them or bring new arguments, then these are not my problems.
        Quote: Wedmak
        it is easy to develop a new heavy hypersonic anti-ship missile with a nuclear charge

        If you say it quite seriously, then there is no point in arguing with you
        1. 0
          14 September 2016 12: 17
          In fact, all this was invented long ago in the bearded Soviet times. Take the same verge at least.
        2. +2
          14 September 2016 12: 26
          What you brought a number of counterarguments. A rather comprehensive answer was given to each of the questions you asked.
          Vraki. No "definitive answer" stands up to scrutiny. Formally, the answer was given - "from..beis".
        3. +1
          14 September 2016 12: 53
          If you could not object to them or bring new arguments

          I stopped arguing with you only because you ran into your statements as the ultimate truth and did not want to listen to my arguments.
          If you say it quite seriously, then there is no point in arguing with you

          And what is wrong? What reasons do you have for not believing in such a development of events? Hypersonic blanks are already being tested on ICBMs. Do you think for a long time to combine the warhead from the ICBM and the guidance system from the RCC?
          However, what am I crucifying, because there is no point in arguing with me, because you are completely confident in your rightness and do not accept any other arguments.
      2. 0
        15 September 2016 19: 18
        Quote: Wedmak
        hypersonic RCC with a nuclear charge is not difficult. And 20 of these missiles

        One is enough and the whole world will burn out in an atomic slaughter.
    5. AUL
      0
      14 September 2016 09: 20
      I recognize my dear by gait ... I recognized the author by the name of the article. I used to read his articles with interest, but now I'm fed up. Dolby about the same with tenacity worthy of a better application. Symptom!
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 12: 28
        Oleg was put on the shoulder blades, I don’t remember in what cycle. He turned to the ekranoplans. Now again holds the flag on the battleship.
    6. avt
      +6
      14 September 2016 09: 32
      Quote: D-Master
      Lord, you open VO in the morning and here are the opuses from Mr. Kaptsov. As always, pathos, fanfare, the sounds of heavy steel bursting by a projectile of caliber 15 inches and above. The article is not about anything.

      wassat How about anything !! ???? It was necessary to read at least the first paragraph!
      New visitors to the forum ask all the same old questions. I don’t know where this delusion comes from about the inefficiency of large highly protected ships, but it’s a shame for the heroes of the past.
      Oleg honestly explained everything, he recruits enthusiastic admirers who have come to adherents of his sect, straight - “Banderlog! Can you see me well? "They see you Oleg! laughing So, I recommend that ancient "visitors of the site do not worry, and even more so do not look for any technical or historical discoveries in this article. And even better - re-read Oleg's previous article, well, a tryout in the real genre of fantasy, there, in my opinion , good for a start in the genre.
      1. +2
        14 September 2016 15: 36
        The Armor Adepts Sect? Or a church of "armored worshipers"? I believe because it is absurd ... And I skipped physics at school.
    7. 0
      14 September 2016 09: 54
      It seems to me. At that time, insufficiently effective air defense with an abundance of attacking aircraft led to this outcome. Armor + modern air defense is a serious thing. And the film is spectacular.
    8. +2
      14 September 2016 10: 14
      Quote: D-Master
      and always remember the ratio:

      Do you remember the ratio of the number of squadrons against the Yamato?
    9. 0
      14 September 2016 10: 17
      You know that LK Yamato went to Okinawa without air cover in a suicidal attack on the US Navy. All questions to the Japanese command. As well as to the British - about the death of Repals and the Prince of Wales at Singapore. The United States in the Pacific has often supplemented standard aircraft carrier orders with ships of the line to enhance their combat resilience.
    10. +2
      14 September 2016 10: 49
      Now compare all this in human terms! Add the crews of the Japanese fleet and the American !!! And suddenly you get almost a five-fold superiority in strength! So you personally stand up against the fifth?
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 11: 52
        the principle of uneven distribution of forces along the front has been known since the time of Epaminondas (and one on one is boxing, not war). the fact that the battleship cannot compete in mobility and arm length with aviation are battleship problems, with the corresponding result
    11. 0
      14 September 2016 11: 49
      you need to remember that the japanese had a weak spot
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 13: 36
        They had excellent anti-aircraft guns which for some reason were absent on Yamato. And the MZA fire control system they had was generally excellent, but the MZA itself was frankly weak, the same thing was observed in the German Navy, their 20mm machine guns were weak, why they didn’t use Erlikona massively, this is honestly a mystery because the production documentation was like in Germany and in Japan, and the industry could release it
        1. 0
          14 September 2016 19: 31
          Quote: Nehist
          the same thing was observed in the German Navy, their 20mm machine guns were weak, why they didn’t use Oerlikon massively, this is honestly a mystery because the production documentation was both in Germany and Japan and the industry could produce it

          The Germans had nothing to do with the light MZA situation. But the "heavy" MZA (37 - 40 mm) on the ships of the Kriegsmarine appeared only in 1943-1944. smile
    12. +6
      14 September 2016 13: 09
      In total, about 10 torpedoes with 270 kg hit the Yamato. "Torpex" (equivalent to 400 kg. TNT) and 13 aerial bombs, 250 kg each. "
      What will happen to the most modern ship if at least a third gets into it, from the above. And getting there is not a question, you just need to oversaturate the air defense.
      Kaptsov is right in some way. The survivability of modern ships is several times lower than ships of that era.
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 13: 28
        So modern ships are protected for war with the use of nuclear weapons, respectively, they do not have the combat stability that was previously, all the experiments to undermine nuclear weapons near the ships (taking into account that when these tests were carried out, the accuracy was +, - many hundreds of meters and a couple of three kilometers), so according to the test results, after 15-30 minutes the ship was fully capable and was able to carry out its combat missions! I’ll say right away about direct coercion, it wasn’t a question, nor is it a question of underwater nuclear explosions, then basically they howled
    13. Hog
      +1
      14 September 2016 20: 46
      A small remark, Yamato drowned almost the entire aircraft carrier fleet of Americans.
  2. +1
    14 September 2016 07: 10
    "The giants were loved by everyone, but especially by the Americans."
    that’s a surprise!
    Yes, it only follows from the article that the Japanese loved more giants. just a little strength was not enough to build in the same quantities. maybe enough to admire american?
    1. +2
      14 September 2016 07: 36
      Quote: DrVintorez
      maybe enough to admire american?

      You already prepare a little list of what is recommended to admire, and what less! How does it resemble the old days ... smile
  3. +15
    14 September 2016 07: 33
    Oleg, the size of a warship is determined by the displacement and not by the length and possibilities of docking.
    Therefore, if "Queen Elizabeth" (battleship which) is 197 meters long, and "Baltimore" is 205 meters long, this does not mean that "Baltimore" is larger than "Queen Elizabeth". For the queen has 27500 tons of standard (iron), while the TCR has only 14500 tons of iron, hence almost a two-fold superiority. And you shouldn't interfere with the cruiser in a heap with battleships just because of the external dimensions. They were created for various tasks and the fact that in history there were cases of combat clashes with one another, this does not mean that it was conceived that way, but only because it happened so. After all, it is not ships that are fighting, but people. By their actions and decisions, people made it so that they had to fight in a different way than it was intended on paper wink
    PS And, Mr. Kaptsov, less pathos-this creates a false idea of ​​the picture as a whole and does not paint the type of analyst wink hi
    1. +1
      14 September 2016 10: 00
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Oleg, the size of a warship is determined by the displacement

      The cost and complexity of the creation also depends on the displacement?

      These are from other, much more complicated parameters - the design features, power of the power plant mechanisms, the composition of weapons and fire controls, and the crew size. for all these parameters, the heavy cruisers Hipper / Baltimore / DeMoyne outnumbered most of the battleships
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 10: 53
        Well, don’t talk about Hipper and his sistershipoff, except for excellent artillery and almost three times reserve PUAO, he didn’t stand out for anything, they put too innovative ideas into this ship and he was frankly raw
      2. +3
        14 September 2016 12: 36
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        The cost and complexity of the creation also depends on the displacement?

        III from other, much more complex parameters - design features, power of the GEM mechanisms, weapon composition and fire control facilities, crew size. In all these respects, the heavy cruisers Hipper / Baltimore / DeMoyne exceeded most

        Do you even understand what you said ???! what laughing What labor intensity ??? And here the number of crew ??? Comrade Kaptsov, you can sniff this for children. How can the composition of the weapons of a cruiser (classic) be compared with a battleship ??? Or do you consider the night shooting of "Kirishima" by American cruisers to be a demonstration battle and proof that a cruiser can fight a battleship? I am FULLY disappointed in you ... request The size of the ship, and consequently the rest of the characteristics laid down by this parameter (displacement), adjusted for small variations depending on the country of the ship's manufacturer, are the definitions of the concept of LINCOR, as well as a CRUISER. And prove that even the apogee of your American favorites " Des Moines, with its automatic main 203-mm caliber, will climb into an open clash with the Vanguard, Richelieu or Littorio. I no longer take the 406-mm cannon, or even less the Yamato. So stop talking nonsense about cost, carriage, and innovation. Oleg, LINKOR is LINCOR, and CRUISER is a classic CRUISER. In classic combat, no cruiser can stand up to a battleship. Different weight characteristics that determine combat capabilities. I'm not even talking about booking. So even if it is innovative, expensive with a two thousand crew, the cruiser will not withstand the battleship, because there is a thicker skin and a fist weightier. lol
        And the question is, how does the Hipper-Baltimore-Des Moines surpass the battleship in terms of weapons? wassat If you write something like that, so argue ... Shootout "Prince Eugen" with "Prince of Wales" is considered an axiom? Although when the British figured out their targets, no one fired their battleships at the cruiser.
        I repeat, I am completely disappointed. Your evidence for the newly arrived pioneers, probably, who learned about the ships from your articles ... request winked
  4. +2
    14 September 2016 07: 43
    About how the sea giants fought - will be described in the second part of the material about “sea fortresses”.
    ... Well, well ... read ....
  5. +15
    14 September 2016 08: 14
    Well, let there be such articles too. To each his own. Good when there is a choice. For example, Andrei from Chelyabinsk and Oleg Kaptsov write about the marine theme. Everyone can choose what he likes best.

    And I personally, I’ll go and read Andrei. We in the Urals appreciate modesty and thoroughness.
  6. +3
    14 September 2016 08: 22
    I like this...
    1. +3
      14 September 2016 13: 34
      I support - it is easy to read, generally informative, and defects can be separated from flies independently.
    2. 0
      14 September 2016 15: 06
      Otozh! Fascinating reading! The breathtaking. wassat
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 17: 19
        I agree, but for the sake of style sacrificed a lot.
  7. +1
    14 September 2016 08: 45

    In the period between the world wars, the British led to more or less modern LCR “Rinaun” and “Repals” standards (they were modernized so seriously that they received the nickname “Rebuild” and “Ripair” in the fleet).
    Extensive modernization was carried out only on "Rhinaun" in 1936-1939. On "Ripals" they limited themselves to some strengthening of horizontal protection and experimented with strengthening anti-aircraft artillery.
    Endowed with unmeasured power, unbending and tenacious, like terminators, they were not afraid of anything and went to the place where any “one-time” light cruiser / leader / destroyer could not walk even a dozen miles. The command was well aware of their capabilities, because they were sent to the very heat.
    Yes, yes. "Not knowing the ford, do not poke your head into the water" - this is how Churchill's decision can be characterized, which he pushed through in the Admiralty by sending "Connection Z" to Singapore, having no real data on the capabilities of the Japanese fleet and aviation that they did not slowed them down to demonstrate in the most vivid way. Deprived of air support (the dedicated aircraft carrier "Indomiteable" damaged the bottom, and got stuck in repair), "Connection Z" - the battleship "Prince of Wales" and LCR "Ripals" in 2 hours on December 10, 1941 were sunk by Japanese aviation , the commander of the formation, Admiral T. Phillips, was killed, the fate of Singapore was a foregone conclusion. According to the estimates of the commander of "Repals" Captain Tennant, 4 or 5 aircraft were shot down.
    From the British point of view, the sinking of the Prince of Wales and the Repals had immediate and dire consequences. The morale of the defenders of Malaya and Singapore was undermined. The fate of all our possessions in Southeast Asia was a foregone conclusion. Rarely has a defeat at sea had such far-reaching consequences. - S. W. Roskill. "Flag of St. George. The English Navy in WWII
    1. +1
      14 September 2016 09: 51
      Quote: Vladislav 73
      Yes, yes. "Not knowing the ford, don't stick your head in the water" - this is how Churchill's solution can be described, which he pushed through in the Admiralty by sending "Connection Z" to Singapore

      And what next, only a small episode of a huge war
      Quote: Vladislav 73
      battleship "Prince of Wales" and LCR "Ripals" in 2 hours on December 10, 1941 were sunk by Japanese aircraft

      And you want to say that in one unsuccessful example you can bring a verdict to the whole class of high-speed battleships of the late period


      How about the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau raids into the Atlantic - an aircraft carrier was shot, two destroyers, auxiliary cruiser, sunk around 30 merchant ships. Plus - the breakthrough of the English Channel, dozens of downed planes, numerous British attempts to destroy them and the Scharnhorst New Year fight with an entire squadron - only by a miracle could they sink
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 10: 18
        And what next, only a small episode of a huge war
        And nothing further. In my opinion, a rather indicative episode. Especially about the statements of O. Kaptsov about the capabilities of the LK, which are so well known to the command, and it did not flinch sent them to hell. Well, to be sure, to be exact.

        And you want to say that in one unsuccessful example you can bring a verdict to the whole class of high-speed battleships of the late period
        That is, your examples are divided into successful and unsuccessful, depending on whether they correspond / not to your ideas? Well then, excuse me .... An example of combat use is part of the entire experience of using this class, and I like to share it, means a good example, but do not like it, an unsuccessful .....
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        What about the raids of Scharnhorst and Gneisenau into the Atlantic - an aircraft carrier was shot,

        Well, no way. Well, a defenseless aircraft carrier was shot down on the road from Norway to Britain (and not in the Atlantic).
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        And you want to say

        I don’t want to say anything. I have commented on some passages of this article that were unsuccessful in my opinion. And to give a verdict to the whole class of ships, God forbid, without me there will be experts and experts! winked
        1. +1
          14 September 2016 10: 35
          Quote: Vladislav 73
          . In my opinion, quite indicative episode

          To which you were led a demonstration episode, when the LC achieved noticeable success and the enemy spent three years and hundreds of combat sorties of aviation, while the whole squadron finally managed to catch and sink the Scharnhorst

          Enough indicative episode?
          Quote: Vladislav 73
          who are so well known to the command, and it sent them to hell without flinching

          Raids of German TKR and LK in the Atlantic
          Who should have dealt a decisive blow in Leyte Gulf (the answer is the battleships and TKR of Admiral Kurita).
          A six-month campaign of the battleship Maryland - 6 months in the combat zone, a lot of cosmetic damage and a number of attempts to destroy it (kamikaze)

          Here are examples of what you are trying to disprove by bringing you the only known episode with Ripals and Prince Wells.
          Quote: Vladislav 73
          An example of combat use is a part of the whole experience of using this class, and sharing it, I like, means a good example, and not like it — an unsuccessful .....

          Something you are completely confused

          I do not mind unsuccessful examples of the use of LC, just do not forget to take into account that there were many more successful And if you do not know anything about them - read books, and only then enter into an argument, otherwise it becomes uninteresting.
          Quote: Vladislav 73
          Well shot defenseless aircraft carrier

          Hahahaha

          Aircraft carriers on which 90% of the forum relies have become defenseless
          1. 0
            14 September 2016 11: 23
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Hahahaha

            Aircraft carriers on which 90% of the forum relies have become defenseless

            Well, sarcasm is not an argument. It would be worth you and 90% of the forum, as you put it. To read HOW the Glories was sunk. I read it, I advise you in self-education!
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

            Enough indicative episode?

            Besides the Scharnhorst, are there no other examples? For example, can you tell the Gneisenau? How did it turn into a blockade, and the guns were transferred to the coastal defense?
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Raids of German TKR and LK in the Atlantic

            Yes, I’m not talking about raids. Especially when you consider WHO they drowned and WHO opposed them. So I’m already a rzhunimagu laughing Well, the campaign of "Bismarck" is counted, after all, 2 battles with classmates. In general, it is a thankless job to give advice, but I would venture to give more critical attitude towards myself and arrogance towards others! For any argument, on occasion, there is always a counterargument. not people, but the course of history itself. I like the army of Ancient Rome. But this does not mean that I will begin to advocate the transition of the modern army to armaments and standards, let's say Guy Mary or Julius Caesar! wink
            1. 0
              14 September 2016 12: 06
              Quote: Vladislav 73
              HOW exactly the Glories was sunk

              Shells 283 mm guns. Shot along with escort, like this

              On board were torpedo? Were So what's the problem. It was a fair fight.
              Quote: Vladislav 73
              "Gneisenau" for example, can you tell?

              Limitless on communication with Scharnhorst

              In 1942, the Germans conceived to re-equip Heisenau with 380 mm, but they had Stalingrad and the fleet gradually faded into the background.
              Quote: Vladislav 73
              . Especially when you consider WHOM they stoked

              Raiders drowned everyone, from Hudah and Glories, to destroyers and dozens of ships
              Quote: Vladislav 73
              and who confronted them

              Entire fleet metropolis
              Quote: Vladislav 73
              Well, the trip "Bismarck" in offset,

              Well done now

              What about the North Caroline combat path? that LC went through all the scrape without noticeable losses, demolished everything in his path
              actions of American battleships near Okinawa (under the blows of thousands of kamikazes)? Held position in spite of everything
              ripals action in norway?


              Quote: Vladislav 73
              On any argument there is always a counter argument.

              You do it badly. Because the wrong trend has been chosen - you are trying to prove the unprovable: that the overprotected monsters were afraid to throw into the fever of battle. and all the stories and facts suggest otherwise
              Quote: Vladislav 73
              But this does not mean that I will begin to propagandize the transition of the modern army to arms and standards.

              Someone promoted the transition to the standards of the time of WWII?
              1. 0
                14 September 2016 12: 27
                Ripals came to Norway because The Luftwaffe could not get it. It is not hell. Finish off half a dozen wounded destroyers when most of their work was done by their British counterparts? Pf ..
                I bet it wouldn’t get into the Oslo fjord if such a story had happened
                1. 0
                  14 September 2016 12: 33
                  I wrote about the fire when Ripals was sent to Singapore. In the sense that the command had no idea what was there and how.
              2. +1
                14 September 2016 12: 28
                Sweet Sixteen! Honestly, I just don’t have time to answer you. I just don’t have time. And so I will say that in the vast majority of cases you are either lying, juggling or distorting the facts. You wishful thinking. There will be time, I’ll write! , I read the comments, and so easily separate the truth from your speculation. So, bye! hi
                1. 0
                  14 September 2016 21: 08
                  Quote: Vladislav 73
                  Honestly, I just don’t have time to answer you. There’s just no time. And I’ll say so that in most cases you either lie

                  Classic drain

                  I could not even leave adequately
          2. 0
            14 September 2016 12: 03
            Three years to catch an unsinkable battleship that avoided fighting with old battleships for three years, even when paired with Gneisenau? Elusive Joe. As for the raider successes, any pair of light cruisers of the WWI era would have achieved the same.
            Well, how is it with the decisive blow of Kurita?
            Did Maryland confront the Japanese alone for six months, or was it covered by hundreds of ships, including aircraft carriers?
          3. +1
            14 September 2016 20: 04
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            A six-month campaign of the battleship Maryland - 6 months in the combat zone, a lot of cosmetic damage and a number of attempts to destroy it (kamikaze)

            You shouldn't have cited Maryland as an example. Because this LC acted as part of the fire support forces - in fact, under a double "umbrella" of air defense (high-speed AUS and AVE cover of the DESO proper).
            And how did it end?
            Time:
            At dusk on June 22, when the battleship, along with Pennsylvania and Colorado, anchored off the southeastern coast of Saipan, firing with projectiles, a twin-engine bomber appeared at low altitude over the hills of the island to avoid detection by American radars. Having slipped in front of the nose of the Pennsylvania battleship to the left, the plane dropped a torpedo and disappeared into the darkness. The torpedo hit the Maryland!
            The explosion occurred in the bow of the port side, turning huge holes on both sides (diameter about 7,5 m) in the region of the 8th frame and below the level of the 2nd deck. The huge ship shuddered, but there was no damage from the concussion - the energy of the explosion went into breaking through the narrow hull in this place. All the watertight doors on the ship were closed and the danger of losing buoyancy or stability didn’t threaten him. But the torpedo explosion damaged the bow tank, which contained 18 gallons of gasoline. Vapors of gasoline with alarming speed began to spread through the neighboring compartments, but purely by a fluke accident did not happen. The explosion of a torpedo killed 3750 crew members. The pressure in the boilers was maintained sufficient to immediately turn the ship on, and 2 minutes after being hit, when it became clear that the anchor drive was operating, such an order was given. The ship lifted the anchor and, under the escort of two destroyers, went to Enivetok, and then to Pearl Harbor, where the shipyard began to repair.

            And two:
            On November 29, as in previous days, the ship, located in the center of the warrant of the TG 77.2 group, played a combat alert and the crew fled to combat posts. Shortly after sunset, a message was received about the appearance of Japanese aircraft, the barrels of anti-aircraft guns stirred, groping for targets. Suddenly, one of the aircraft rushed into a dive, instantly hiding in the clouds. Seconds later, he emerged from them and, leaving behind shell explosions, crashed into the Maryland deck between the bow towers of the Civil Code.
            The force of the explosion broke the forecastle like a cardboard one; even the 89-mm steel of the armored deck could not withstand. Everything and everyone around the site of the fall of the "kamikaze" was destroyed: the bulkheads were torn apart, the locks from the doors and hatches were torn out "with meat", the water pipes, cables, and ventilation ducts were torn and twisted. In addition, a massive fire began, making the battleship a perfectly illuminated target. Fortunately, no new attacks followed, and the emergency crews quickly got to work, despite the puffs of acrid smoke that engulfed the explosion site. Most of the crew remained at combat posts.
            After extinguishing the fire, it was possible to determine the number of victims: 31 people died, another 30 were seriously injured and burned (1 officer). The ship’s medical center was also seriously damaged: the operating room, laboratory, pharmacy and wards were destroyed, so the first aid to the victims had to be provided in unsuitable places.
            Every time the LC went for repair.
            And then there was a kamikaze.
    2. +1
      14 September 2016 10: 58
      The Prince has the same fate as Bismarck, as well as torpedo damage that turned out to be fatal. True, by virtue of design features, he drowned very quickly, you can tell yourself he turned the whole stern with his shaft
  8. +2
    14 September 2016 09: 01
    After each article by Oleg, I climb into Wikipedia to read about another super ship unknown to me :)
  9. 0
    14 September 2016 09: 21
    Hello everyone. I want to express 2 things. first - in this article there is an idea that weakly protected ships (a la zumwalt and so on), in principle, could not show themselves where the lux with comrades at least somehow kept. the second - in the 3 years that I read w / o, our encyclopedists from Israel did not show up in the comments on Oleg’s articles, which is hinting at.
    1. 0
      14 September 2016 10: 07
      Quote: sharkmen
      for the 3 of the year that I read w / o, our encyclopedists from Israel did not light up in the comments on Oleg’s articles, which is hinting at.

      For what ? What hint did you see, share your thoughts smile
      1. +1
        14 September 2016 13: 18
        Quote: Bayonet
        Quote: sharkmen
        for the 3 of the year that I read w / o, our encyclopedists from Israel did not light up in the comments on Oleg’s articles, which is hinting at.

        For what ? What hint did you see, share your thoughts smile


        There are no heavy ships in the Israeli army - therefore, they are not interested!
        1. +2
          14 September 2016 13: 36
          they are incompetent in heavy ships - and do not build them, such as a U-turn?
  10. 0
    14 September 2016 09: 22
    The author’s obstinacy, lack of objectivity, as well as his fundamental disagreement with criticism of his articles is already a byword on historical sites and the near-gaming environment about boats. In principle, just one comment from a D-Master colleague is enough as a full-fledged response to an article that once again reflects the author.
    Regarding the author’s statement about New visitors to the forum ask all the same old questions. I don’t know where this delusion comes from about the inefficiency of large highly protected ships, but it’s a shame for the heroes of the past., then it’s more logical for him on the forum and to dwell, protecting his sacred battleship cows.
    1. +1
      14 September 2016 11: 02
      You're not right! Oleg also has objectivity and he normally treats criticism. But he has a peculiar point of view and he is not afraid to defend it, and by the way he knows how to recognize his obvious mistakes
  11. 0
    14 September 2016 09: 22
    In the morning I did not know what to read at dinner. Thanks to Mr. Kaptsov. Helped out. Yes, and about the battleships.
  12. +4
    14 September 2016 09: 40
    In the comments annoying frequent mention of the names of the author. Most of the comments - slag, in the style of the author is wrong, put the cons, aee, the collapse of consciousness

    Anyone from the noted here can write something sensible about the ships? Facts, interesting figures, some illustrations proving the rightness of one or another side. Why score comments empty flood?
    1. AUL
      +2
      14 September 2016 10: 12
      Dear (true!) Oleg!
      I myself do not write articles - God did not give talent. But sometimes I comment when an article or a comment "clings". At first I read your articles with great interest, although sometimes I did not agree with all theses. I was very impressed by your love for the giants of the sea. But over time, your articles lost their novelty, repetition began, became predictable and lost interest.
      You know, this is natural. Often an author who has written something successful begins to stretch the idea into sequels, and as a result, each subsequent book (article) turns out to be worse than the previous one. Example - Andrey Belyanin with his "Sword without a name" and other "series". Any good idea should be "rounded off" in time so as not to defile it.
      I hope no offense. Respectfully, Alexander.
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 10: 40
        Quote from AUL
        send repetitions

        Show where give link
    2. avt
      +3
      14 September 2016 10: 18
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      can any of those noted here write something sensible about ships? Facts, interesting figures, some illustrations proving the correctness of one side or another.

      Almost NOBODY! Well, it's really difficult, but what's difficult there - it's unrealistic, to keep up with the flight of thought, in which, well, for example, "Emvolt" is practically the newest word in shipbuilding, well, a wonderful miracle, a wonderful miracle, unattainable, but ..... designed by pests ... bully I didn’t mix anything up? Well, from the bottom line of past articles ?? bully
      1. +1
        14 September 2016 15: 40
        And he, like a current black grouse, for example, didn’t notice an article by Andrey from Chelyabinsk ...
    3. +5
      14 September 2016 12: 07
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      In the comments, the frequent mention of the author's name is annoying.

      Duck don't read the comments.
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Most comments are slag.

      "You are all fools and do not heal, I alone am smart, I stand beautiful in a white coat" (C) Photozhaba on Novodvorskaya.
      Typical liberal thought path. I offer such cool ideas to the people, and they vote for Putin. What a bad people went to Russia. smile Here is the same thing. I write such cool articles, and the readers are bad.
      1. +4
        14 September 2016 15: 22
        Well, Oleg will stop writing his articles about the fleet, who will get better from this? And so everyone is interested! Whoever knows is looking for mistakes and inconsistencies. Whoever does not know is fascinated by the pompous calm and grandeur of the plan. Fun for everyone.
        Write, Oleg, be sure to write! I look forward to the next article.
  13. +1
    14 September 2016 09: 42
    In general, if before the articles of Oleg Kaptsov, although they sinned with some bias, there was a lot of objective evidence, it was easy to read and with pleasure, then this opus ... A lot of pathos, objectivity is generally questionable, everything in a bunch of performance characteristics are derived from linear dimensions, Well, and a lot more! Yes, there were battleships and TKR collisions, so what? In war, there are all kinds of planning errors, for example. But this does not mean that both the LK and TKR were built for the same tasks, and their combat use is the same .. For example: "Remember who tormented the South Dakota in the night battle near Guadalcanal (most of the hits - 203 mm shells of Japanese cruisers)" So what? The Japanese planned before the landing from the "Tokyo Express" to inflict an artillery strike on airfields at night and fortifications on Guadalcanal, but it turned out that the Yankees intercepted them .... As a result, the Japanese battleship "Kirishima" was sunk. I do not think that any TKR could withstand as many hits as the LK. "What do heavy cruisers have to do with it? Ha, despite the fact that the" Baltimore "was two meters longer than the battleship" South Dakota "Indeed, what does it have to do with it ??? Maybe, before citing linear dimensions as a dubious argument, it is worth comparing the performance characteristics and accordingly , combat stability? "South Dakota" is 15 m shorter than "North Caroline", but the Yankees themselves "North Caroline" was considered in terms of protection rather mediocre LC, but the booking scheme and PTZ "South Dakota" almost unchanged migrated to "Iowa" , which the Yankees are so proud of. Well, what comparisons can there be with TKr?
    1. 0
      14 September 2016 10: 40
      In my opinion, you simply did not understand the promise of the article. If you don’t understand what the book is about, why read it?
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 11: 32
        In my opinion, you didn’t read either the article or my comment at all! Here the author immediately understood, and he already skidded in sarcasm, assaults and counterarguments!
        1. 0
          14 September 2016 11: 55
          Quote: Vladislav 73
          Here the author immediately understood, and it already brought in sarcasm, assaults and counterarguments!

          And why are you not to neighing if you are trying to prove outright nonsense by grasping the only example known to you
          1. 0
            14 September 2016 12: 24
            And why, of course .... Especially if you do not read, and do not take into account the arguments of the opponent ...
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            if you are trying to prove outright nonsense,

            Well, you’re a well-known expert and expert, laughing where is it for me, the syroma and the wretched to argue with unquestioned authority, it remains only request Yeah ... Your skull’s windshield, what is it made of? Krupp-Cemented? Yes, absolutely useless to argue with you ... But sarcasm is not an argument, I have already said.
            1. 0
              14 September 2016 21: 03
              Quote: Vladislav 73
              , and do not take into account the arguments of the opponent.

              Arguments can be argued, citing your own

              But for some reason this thought hurt you
  14. +2
    14 September 2016 09: 45
    The superstructure on the Japanese is amazing !!!!
    1. +1
      14 September 2016 10: 46
      One of the few worthwhile comments

      The man drew attention to the author, and the design of the ship
  15. +1
    14 September 2016 09: 50
    I agree with the article "about nothing". An analysis of the construction of types of ships by country can be found in the mass of literature with detailed calculations about the "features" published since the days of Shershov and his "Military Shipbuilding" in 1940. Why repeat yourself so many times?
  16. BAI
    0
    14 September 2016 09: 59
    As the Japanese themselves said:
    "There are three unnecessary things in the world - the Egyptian pyramids, the Great Wall of China and battleships of the Yamato class.
  17. +4
    14 September 2016 10: 13
    By the title of the article, it was immediately clear who the author was, maybe, well, maybe, well, maybe, I almost shed a tear, I just wanted to go to the wheelhouse and into battle, only the "villain" Lunin with his unfinished K-21 is hanging around somewhere And you know, does it cool the ardor and so Oleg is beautiful as always! (no sarcasm) ........................... urgently Aurora on the "Zvezdochka" to hang dynamic protection to install towers from "MCA-S" remove from "Orlana" reactor and at 35 nodes to Pearl Harbor to smash mattresses!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  18. BAI
    +3
    14 September 2016 10: 13
    The 2nd World War showed that artillery ships (battleships) lose to aircraft carriers, so the era of battleships ended successfully. In the US Navy, battleships survived after the war, only because they were not in danger and could fire at the enemy (coastal facilities of underdeveloped countries) with complete impunity.
    1. 0
      14 September 2016 10: 44
      Quote: BAI
      that the artillery ships (battleships) lose to aircraft carriers

      As so, here is just that a man wrote that aircraft carriers are defenseless:

      Quote: Vladislav 73
      Yes nikak.Nu shot defenseless aircraft carrier
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 11: 29
        I wrote about a specific case. And you don't need to pull me up as such an argument! And if you don't know how the Glories was sunk, then you can't speculate with what was written!
    2. +2
      14 September 2016 11: 14
      You are absolutely wrong !!! It’s worth remembering the same concept of American battleships !!! They were created as battleships for escorting aircraft carrier formations because Americans were very afraid of breaking Japanese fast-moving battleships such as Congo, Fuso, etc., as well as TK. By the way, only the TK type Alaska could effectively resist the Japanese TK ace, otherwise they were inferior! In general, everything rested on the concept of using the fleet, among the Japanese, for example, escort ships were absent as a class, which led to unreasonably high losses. For this, almost all of its strike missions, the Japanese fleet completed as it was built specifically for strike operations
  19. 0
    14 September 2016 10: 39
    I support the author of the article for a reasoned point of view. And he himself largely agrees with him. But I think that the only obstacle to building such ships now is the lack of funds for their construction. The Americans have enough of their berks, and the rest have nothing to build such ships on.
    1. 0
      14 September 2016 15: 31
      Well, yes, we are now the destroyer to build the problem, we do with small missile.
  20. +1
    14 September 2016 10: 44
    I had no doubt that the article was written by a respected Oleg, and in some ways I agree with him. But unfortunately I have to state a fact !!! Heavily armored ships with modern fillings will be three times more expensive than the Nimitz AV class ... That is, not a single state on this moment will simply pull such a boat. And he will be too limited in application now. Well, what about LCR is for samurai !!! These, in their time, achieved the perfect balance between armor and armament among battle and heavy cruisers
    1. 0
      14 September 2016 10: 56
      Quote: Nehist
      I have to state a fact !!! Heavily armored ships with modern filling will be priced three times more expensive than the AV class Nimitz.

      It is very easy to state the facts.

      Give at least some calculation or evidence that you just wrote
      1. 0
        14 September 2016 11: 31
        Yes, no problem! The cost of the hulls of modern ships is approximately 20-27% of the cost of the entire ship, taking into account local booking of nodes such as the GEM of the BZ and PU cellars. That takes about 15% of the total area, taking into account that local booking is clearly not able to withstand a 100mm artillery shell. Now imagine a fully armored ship capable of withstanding Granite’s impact !!! It will have a displacement as a supertanker and have the appropriate dimensions! Alas and ah !! Aircraft carriers are very expensive toys !!! Our Eagles are also not cheap ... And now, you yourself think how much it will cost to discuss such an over-armored monster having at the same time limited tasks
        1. 0
          14 September 2016 11: 52
          Quote: Nehist
          The cost of the hulls of modern ships is approximately 20-27% of the cost of the entire ship

          hull - 5% of the cost of a modern destroyer

          reference -
          https://topwar.ru/86251-skolko-stoit-bronirovanny
          y-kreyser.html
          1. 0
            14 September 2016 12: 38
            hull - 5% of the cost of a modern destroyer

            We are building a battleship, not an AMG ship, Oleg. Armor is now expensive. Where will you cast?
          2. 0
            14 September 2016 13: 32
            I’m writing about the same Orlans or Ticon derrogs that I’m most close to battleships, where there is at least some less adequate booking, and you tell me about destroyers that never carried armored ballistic cover
      2. 0
        14 September 2016 12: 43
        Oleg, how much is a square meter of armored steel? With whom do you want to equip your destroyer, pah battleship? The thickness of the armor is your choice (let's see what thickness you choose). Any manufacturer of armor - look for the cheapest one, we will close our eyes for quality. I smoothly bring to the fact that instead of one superlinkor you can build 3 fleets. And I did not touch the GEM. Your battleship, of course, will be atomic?
        1. +4
          14 September 2016 13: 44
          and indeed - if you make too many heavy ships, sea level can rise with disastrous consequences
  21. 0
    14 September 2016 11: 23
    Another thought came to my mind 70 years ago, the same Japan and Germany were not afraid to build such giants and climb onto Britain, Russia and the USA. Although the outcome of the war was not completely clear at the headquarters of Japan and Germany. Italy and France had battleships. And now...
    Russia then did not build floating airfields and fortresses, but fought off all, now all the countries listed above + the legion of satellites are against it, but we somehow hold on. All the same, we are a separate civilization.
    1. +2
      14 September 2016 12: 32
      You are better off in politics (site section). It’s not welcome here ..
    2. +1
      14 September 2016 12: 32
      Quote: fzr1000
      and we somehow hold on.

      The answer is simple, the technological development that brought to naught quantitative superiority .. Well, since the adversary has many times more soldiers, planes, ASG and other things ... The Joker in the form of nuclear weapons resets everything and everything ... This is technological development .. Let’s say tomorrow a type of weapon will be invented that will be cheap and simple enough to be possessed by, say, very poor countries, but at the same time, it will easily (against which there is nothing to oppose) destroy any aggressor country .. And the whole world will be radically it will change, there will be two ways out either to learn to ignore this threat (the next technological leap) or to learn to live peacefully ... Otherwise, civilization on planet earth will end ....
      pc: Or maybe this is the main reason that over the past 70 years not one breakthrough fundamental discovery in science has been made? It is not necessary for the current leaders to be equal and with the same opportunities ...
  22. +2
    14 September 2016 12: 14
    “Rinaun” and “Ripals” (modernized so seriously that they received the nickname “Rebuild” and “Ripair” on the fleet - “perestroika” and “repair”)
    Here again, juggling. This is British humor! Rebild and Ripeir - these battleships so ironically called the British for frequent visits to shipyards for modernization, with a hint that they are more often at the dock than at sea. In this joke, of course, there is a strong exaggeration in this regard, but nevertheless, it would not have occurred to the merry British to seriously give such nicknames to the ships for supposedly super-serious modernization. It’s like seriously calling yourself a great writer, scribbling articles in VO.
    1. +1
      14 September 2016 20: 14
      But you must agree that the modernization of Rhinaun is impressive:
      The cost of building Rhinaun was, according to Burt, £ 3117204 (about 31180 thousand rubles in gold), according to Brayer, 2962578 pounds sterling (about 29626 thousand rubles in gold) or, respectively, 114 and 108 pounds sterling per ton of normal displacement.

      For re-equipment and repairs in 1919-22 the British treasury spent 276256 pounds sterling for modernization in 1923-26. £ 979927. Modernization 1936-39 cost the treasury £ 3088008. The total cost to build, refurbish, renovate and modernize Rhinaun, according to Burt, £ 7461395, according to Brayer, £ 7306769, with refurbishment, repairs and upgrades costing £ 1226987 more than construction.

      And then they complain that they don’t have enough money for the fleet. smile
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. +5
    14 September 2016 12: 47
    When authors start joking with phrases like:
    Unlike the pre-war “freaks”
    Italians have only two convolutions in their heads, and those are spaghetti
    displacement reserve was wasted. Why? It is necessary to ask the German “superhuman
    - you can not read further - the genius of ship design Oleg K "has long surpassed" world shipbuilding schools with his projects. At the same time, he is also a chauvinist - who passed on a nat basis in ship designs.
    After this, in principle, you can not finish reading.
    I read it out of curiosity - suddenly the "gloomy genius" of Koptsov, gave birth to something worthwhile - however, besides the "gopotin trick" with banter, there are a lot of unfounded statements and not an ounce of useful information or a sane assessment of projects ...

    Do not waste time reading shit, read good books :)
  25. +4
    14 September 2016 13: 45
    Damn, again a kindergarten with funny pictures.

    Request to the VO administration to place Oleg Kaptsov's endless epic about the Great White Fleet from the "sea fortresses" in the "Opinions" section.
    1. 0
      6 December 2017 15: 49
      He skimmed over the kamment, caught his eye on this one. Because for a moment it seemed to me not “Opinions”, but “Mania”. Well, it’s worth introducing, IMHO, for O. Kaptsov a special section: “Mania”, because in his articles it has a concentration that is incompatible with life. Again, IMHO. Freudian dreams of phallically long and orgasmic thick mega-ships are wonderful. Well, up to twenty years. After that, they have a place in the slander, in the worst case, but not in military analytics.
  26. 0
    14 September 2016 14: 09
    Quote: Vladislav 73
    Singapore's fate was a foregone conclusion.

    I wonder how these ships would help the defense of Singapore? With almost three times the brazen superiority over the Japanese, Yamashito wrote that his attack on Singapore was a bluff. Nevertheless, the impudent surrendered, this speaks in my opinion of only one strength of mind and the desire to defeat the Japanese was higher than that of the impudent ones.
    Of course, how many people have so many opinions.
  27. +1
    14 September 2016 14: 18
    Quote: dumpy15
    You know that LK Yamato went to Okinawa without air cover in a suicidal attack on the US Navy. All questions to the Japanese command. As well as to the British - about the death of Repals and the Prince of Wales at Singapore.

    Here, dear dumpy15, a legitimate question immediately arises: why the battleship in the presence of aircraft carriers? I will try to explain with an example.

    1. Imagine a situation. Two boxers entered the battle. One with short arms. Well very short. And the second with long ones. Much longer than the first. In addition, the former constantly stands still, while the latter has very high mobility. Which boxer will win the fight? The answer is obvious, right?

    2. Another situation. Somewhat more complicated. Three boxers enter the battle, with two on one side, and one their opponent. In a team of two boxers, one with very short arms and barely moves, and the second with very long arms and very mobile. They are opposed, as in the first example, by a mobile boxer with very long arms. Obviously, the fight will come down to an exchange of blows between long-armed moving boxers, and if a boxer from a team wins a loner, then the fight is over, and if a long-arm loner wins, the short-armed has no chance.

    As for the battleships and combat stability of the aircraft carrier’s connection ... I don’t know ... If actions are to be undertaken along the coast, then the presence of a battleship in the composition of the formation is somehow justified, and if the fleet is to work against the fleet, then how the battleship can enhance the stability of the AUS ? He himself needs to be protected both from aviation and from submarines, diverting forces and means to this task ... And the fact that the Americans included battleships in the composition of aircraft carrier formations, then where to put them? Built already, you can’t get anywhere. It’s necessary to use somehow ...
    1. 0
      14 September 2016 17: 56
      Quote: Glad
      Americans included battleships in aircraft carrier formations, then where to put them

      battleships were not included in the order out of despair. AN is also a weapon, and it also needs preparation and reloading. He is a "long arm" and others are called upon to protect him in other situations. AN is not an invulnerable weapon. They were shot by the AN and the PL and the LC.
  28. +2
    14 September 2016 15: 25
    Endless chafing of the advantages and disadvantages of outdated "steel masses" and modern "cardboard" ships.

    As if thousands of design engineers eat their bread in vain? I am writing not for understanding specialists (for whom these are common truths), but for those who have doubts in view of reading such articles.

    So what has replaced the armor of modern "cardboard ships".
    Everyone has long known that in a competition an armor / shell, a shell will always be the winner, since an increase in the armor penetration of a shell is cheaper than a passive build-up of armor.
    All-or-nothing booking schemes have already shown that one cannot do without compromises in booking; it is impossible to make a uniformly protected ship.

    With the advent of missile weapons, protection was largely from "passive" (armor), passed into active - search and interception of attacking submarines / aircraft / missiles. This is an axiom of modern military shipbuilding and no alternative to it at this stage of technical development is foreseen.

    The logic of the process - the more detection and interception means on a floating platform (carrier), the higher the range of detection / destruction of targets, the higher the speed and intelligence of weapon control systems and target designation systems - the higher the security of a modern ship.
    And for a mosquito fleet with missile weapons (RTOs), the most relevant topic is low visibility, which is vital for reaching the line of attack.
    1. +2
      14 September 2016 16: 30
      Do you think you are the first who says these commonplace things to the author ...? I’m afraid that it’s not even 101 ... Alas, religion is here - for an argument there is no need for an engineer, a scholastic ...
      1. +1
        15 September 2016 11: 54
        Yes, I know that it is useless. I could not resist ...
    2. 0
      14 September 2016 17: 38
      Do you know what is the biggest problem of the mosquito fleet? The same RTOs? So this is external target designation !!!! Otherwise, they need to get closer to the distance of the stable visibility of the target with their very weak radars ... Since it is simply not possible to place normal target designation and target tracking stations in them due to their small size. By the way, this is still a huge problem for over-the-horizon shooting. There was such a system in the Union, our boats at one time received such a system, albeit not perfect but received. Now, apart from the states, no one has this and they are experiencing enormous problems with this. Oleg is right in some ways, but I repeat again, It will be a mega ship with limited use is too expensive and not very effective
  29. 0
    14 September 2016 17: 58
    And I have not yet had time to "get fed up" with Kaptsov's articles. Yes, the style is. True, I do not recommend writing in it often (it gets boring faster)
    Thanks for the info. I also liked the comments, I learned more about the fleet.
  30. +2
    14 September 2016 19: 50
    The only ones who “kicked the cotton” during the interwar period were the Yankees. His last battleship was laid there in the years of Perovoi World, and then for the whole 15 years they did nothing. Apparently, they hoped for the strength of their diplomacy, which shackled Japan with the shackles of maritime treaties (after all, the Japanese were not busy with a good life with the rusty battleships of WWI, instead of building new ships).

    Really?
    During the interwar period, the Yankees slowly and systematically carried out a complete modernization of all LK PMVs that remained after the "Washington massacre" to a single standard (with the exception of the last five Big Five). At the same time, in terms of overhaul of the repair, the Yankees were not inferior to limes - only building up the PTZ to 7-9 meters was worth it.
    Here. for example, a list of works on the mississippi aircraft (BB-41):
    On February 8, 1931, the battleship left San Pedro to participate in fleet maneuvers near Panama, which lasted until March 20. Then the battleship passed the Panama Canal in order to transfer the crew to the "Arizona" in the Puerto Rican port of Ponce before being upgraded. Work at the Norfolk Navy shipyard began on 30 March. As a result of overhaul and modernization on the battleship completely replaced the main mechanisms, reinforced deck booking To counter air attacks, we installed airborne blisters (boules), which significantly improved the PTZ, trellised masts were replaced by tower-like superstructures with new artillery fire control posts on Mars. For protection against aviation put 8 127-mm anti-aircraft guns and their control system; improved oil nozzles in boilers; elevation angle of turret guns increased from 15 to 30 degrees. The ship received the most advanced fire control systems of the main and auxiliary calibers. Modernization ended on August 31, 1932.

    By the way, Limes were not able to carry out a complete modernization of the main engines of their old LCs - even on the Korolevs, they could only increase the HVR on the Worspite, the Korolev itself and the Valiant.

    Moreover, the Yankees left the "battleship vacation" in the same year as the limes: "Kinga" and "Norku" were laid in the same 1937.
  31. 0
    15 September 2016 00: 04
    And ... at the end of the advertisement of Warships from Wargheim fellow laughing Which, as usual, is positioned as "vigorous chopping with maximum historicity")))) From historicity well .. yes ... modelki, you can't argue here)) To rivets .. so to speak .. but otherwise .. well, the HP system and smoldering holes in the armored belt of battleships, coupled with vigorous cries of "robot" - "there is a penetration" when it hits the unprotected side of the cruiser, the first leveled ..)))))
    1. +1
      15 September 2016 10: 40
      Quote: Region-25.rus
      Before the rivet .. so to speak .. and the rest .. well, the HP system

      More precisely, the system "modules + HP". Playability to the detriment of realism.
      Otherwise, instead of firing the players, the whole game would be engaged in distributing emergency teams to the highest priority areas and calculating stability and buoyancy, choosing whether to counter-flood the compartment, risking to settle even deeper and give water access to new holes, or to spit on counter-flooding, risking to overshoot when increasing roll. And all this - in case of a fire raging above, approaching the TA and the fenders of the first shots FOR. smile
      Quote: Region-25.rus
      coupled with cheerful exclamations of the "robot" - "there is a breakthrough" when it hits the unprotected side of the cruiser of the first level.

      Does anyone on the first level have cruisers? EMNIP, there are only KL and SKR (with a strong and absolutely useless FOR).
  32. +2
    15 September 2016 10: 31
    Italians have only two convolutions in their heads, and those are spaghetti.


    Oh, I won’t tell. Well organized and hardworking people. Not to say that they are very smart, but there is something in them. Although sometimes boring ...
    As a translator I can say.

    The screenshot from the game is generally incomprehensible ... Why not sculpt the pictures from IL-2 or War thunder after each article about airplanes.
  33. +3
    15 September 2016 12: 18
    Quote: Nehist
    Oleg is right in some ways, but I repeat again

    For example, what is right?
    Is it necessary to have more armor?

    What is used in modern shipbuilding from what Koptsov "grieves" about?

    Maybe you just had to get the appropriate education as a design engineer?
    You know, when I had to deal with the subject of development related to the military-industrial complex - 30% of the time went into the study of modern development trends in the industry, their analysis (translated articles and other information), the study of open foreign patents, and only then the outline design began.

    And when a person - clearly not having a technical background, poorly understanding the terminology and design techniques (judging by his articles and style), begins to criticize the projects developed by teams of professionals - this does not look ridiculous - it's .... it's like a nurse washing floors and a duck-carrying one, suddenly begins to teach and jabber over professors conducting unique operations and criticize their methods ...

    In order to analyze the project, you need to get an appropriate education, work in design bureaus, gain experience, do a couple of projects yourself, get criticism from your colleagues, redo 10 times - and only then a person will begin to understand what design is and who has spaghetti instead of the brain. ..
  34. +1
    15 September 2016 13: 37
    Quote: Alexey RA
    And then they complain that they don’t have enough money for the fleet.


    I think you were joking.
    A few upgrades for a sufficiently long service life is better than building a FEW intermediate intermediates.

    In fact, if the carrier platform is very successful, then I see no reason not to upgrade weapons and equipment during the service.

    There are many such examples - for example, in aviation - the long-livers B-52 and we have Tu-95 Tu-160 - successful aerial carrier platforms. Engines are changing, avionics is improving, the payload is changing. Similarly, tanks and other platforms are being modernized.

    In general, always before such work, an analysis of the costs of modernization and a comparison with the costs of building a new carrier are carried out.
    I think you understand this perfectly Alexey.

    The death of Rinaun is in no way connected with the costs of its modernization - it is a criminal, mediocre use of weapons, in extremely unfavorable conditions.
    When the battleship Marat was locked in the Marquise puddle, it was one thing to lose 2 LCs demonstratively sending them to a cruising barrage - well, it’s hard for me to judge the motives of the command or their awareness of the Japanese Air Force in the region ...
  35. +1
    15 September 2016 13: 50
    Quote: Alexey RA
    More precisely, the system "modules + HP". Playability to the detriment of realism.


    I also play periodically - of course, realism is not the main thing (the reliability of the models is very pleasant).
    Tactically unpredictable actions of random teams are the hobby of such games.

    Even in his youth, after reading "Tsushima" by Novikov-Surf, he "fell ill" with the topic, repeatedly recreating this battle on paper, where the Japanese would have been smashed to smithereens by the Russian imperial fleet ...

    It's a pity that no one will "recreate" the composition of the fleet so that the "revenge-seekers" have a chance to get even with the Japanese fleet, at least in the vastness of the virtual strait ...
  36. 0
    16 September 2016 02: 18
    The article is good, plus. I'll try to comment: pocket battleships \ there is one book- “The fastest ships”, at 27 knots., But the fact is that the one who could catch up was weaker armed, and who was armed more GD-diesel was slower, by the way. And a lot of blood was spoiled both for us and the “partners.” Hood, from the same series that was not very famous for D.V. In the 70s, in the magazine “Modelist- constructor, "there was an article-" Admiral Fisher's Toys, "just about battlecruisers. Bismarck: received about 3000 shells, of various calibers and 23 torpedoes, and sank \ is considered \ from opening the Kingston crew, comparable to Yamato? Source-HMS Hood VS Bismarck The Battleship Battle writer: Theodore Taylor 1982 | Yes, I remember in the 80s the states fired Beirut from a modified type of New Jersey. Isn't it really junk?
    1. 0
      6 December 2017 15: 56
      Quote: Guest171
      .In the 70s, in the magazine "Model Designer", there was an article- "Admiral Fisher's Toys," just about battlecruisers.

      I'm afraid to make a mistake, but the article was not called "Admiral Fisher's Cats"? I just remember from this article the maxim about too thin skin of these cats.
  37. 0
    16 September 2016 06: 03
    Article plus, I agree with Oleg, armor is needed on ships and they put it, the same "Peter the Great" - an armored cruiser.
    1. 0
      16 September 2016 13: 33
      It should be noted that the aforementioned problem appeared just around this time, during the Second World War. Appeared expensive equipment for various purposes. And among the sea powers, the need for the presence of as many universal ships as possible of as little displacement as possible was identified. Destroyers, on which all this was hung, began to play the role of such ships. And since they died just as easily, in addition to them, they began to build more, again, smaller, more highly specialized escort destroyers, frigates, etc. I think that everything was decided by logistics. Unarmored destroyers are smaller and easier to manufacture. Heavy armored ships require specialized shipyards for construction and specially equipped naval bases. As a result, destroyers can be riveted anywhere and anytime, and it’s also easy to maintain. But battleships are a piece of goods, despite the fact that most of the time the battleship will do the same job as the destroyer, since it’s not capable of breaking apart, diverting more funds. And in fact, they often didn’t even do this, but simply stupidly stood idle, because there were few of them, they were expensive and cherished, not wanting to lose, even for a while, due to some submarine of the enemy that was not nearby. This in WWI and earlier battleships were the main striking force at sea. But World War II and the submarine fleet came to the fore. To build a normal aircraft carrier instead of Yamato - the Japanese would be much more useful, they really did not have enough of these aircraft carriers. But who knew? There was always a danger on the horizon that the enemy would assemble his battleships in an armored fist, cover him with a crowd of destroyers and submarines, and go down to destroy naval bases one after another. And the only true remedy against this was seen by our own battleships. In practice, it turned out that those days are long gone and not the one who hats behind the armor wins, but the one who is able to do as much work as possible on the largest possible area in the shortest possible time. As a result, the battleships lost their cover and support, which is why they died heroically and stupidly. And at the same time I do not argue, there is a certain reliability in them. Battleship armor is always armor. Whereas relatively vulnerable aircraft carriers, destroyers and submarines themselves look unreliable. Their application requires knowledge, activity, tactical and strategic thinking, i.e. difficult and unobvious.
      1. 0
        20 September 2016 03: 38
        As soon as I read, "Each German cruiser served more people than the heroically lost" Hood "! The stakes were high." I finished right away. What was so heroic that thin did not understand !!! This is probably written for fans of World of Warships. He himself is far from being a Moreman, but I read about the fight of Bismarck with the thin one and the Prince of Wales for self-education, so to speak. Hood died ingloriously in this battle and the prince shot off following the favorite English tactics - if the enemy is stronger then run, and if there is no such possibility, then surrender.
  38. +1
    20 September 2016 09: 42
    Hooray, the autumn aggravation began, a cycle went about armor and their carriers.
    Only now, damn it ... I don’t remember a single naval flag, except for the Soviet one, at the walls of the Reichstag.
    And the battleship, by the way, too. No one.
    Well, this is passing, right?
    ...
    Honestly, I liked the note. It will be about fights - I will read about fights.
    ...
    And I want to note one thing - .. no, two.
    "... 15 sea monsters ready for battle (of course, not counting the rest who did not have time to go through the modernization of the vessels, .." - not a single sailor will apply the concept of "vessel" in relation to "monsters" ...
    and, in the article, the concepts are mixed up - 15-dm, and a little further 16-inch. So dm ... - is that - decimeters or inches? After all, you can perceive everything in the forehead.
  39. 0
    20 September 2016 20: 08
    I'm just shocked !!!))))) This is the author’s rumbled)
  40. 0
    11 December 2016 08: 45
    The picture is somehow awkward. The three-gun tower stands at the top, and the two-gun tower below. Although the logic should be the other way around to increase the stability of the ship. After all, the difference in the mass of the towers should reach tens of tons of metal!
    1. 0
      6 December 2017 15: 38
      Vestimo, a more massive gun cellar (on a three-barreled tower) was moved closer to the midsection, just to increase stability and maneuverability. Tea, not the most stupid people designed it, they took into account elementary physics, understood since childhood, from childhood ...
  41. 0
    20 December 2016 13: 07
    The coolest ship is the destroyer. I’m in a one-on-one destroyer warship, I’ll burn any battleship :)
    1. 0
      6 December 2017 15: 34
      Comrade Major! That's because they found the basis for the mathematical modeling of a real battle - a computer game! To each his own, of course ... well, seven feet under the sofa)))
  42. 0
    18 August 2017 19: 37
    As soon as aircraft carriers appeared with normal bombers and torpedo bombers, the fate of the battleships was a foregone conclusion.
  43. 0
    6 December 2017 15: 31
    Dear author! I, as a "land explorer", do not go into naval matters as an expert, of course. However, IMHO, you prematurely recorded the type of "Zara" in the "floating fortresses." I remember there was such an expert in ancient pre-Internet times, German Smirnov. He had excellent articles under the heading "Marine Collection" in the magazine "Model Designer" (as a pioneer I wrote it out, saving on school lunches). So, his opinion about the battle at Matapan boils down to the fact that the victory of the British was predetermined in advance due to two factors: the presence of the British radar (+5 to the initiative in a night battle) and (attention!) UNAFFICIALLY LOW VIVILITY of Italian cruisers. Bottom line: “Zara”, “Paula” and “Fiume” were completely disheveled in a matter of minutes, they didn’t have enough ... I don’t know, I’ll try, Oleg, to play on your field ... they had too low Combat Stability Index, they even the Civil Code did not have time to transfer from a marching to a combat situation. And they were solved, for a minute, by the "superdreadnoughts" (as defined by G. Smirnov) of the PMV times. Some kind of liquid fortress. And the fact that they didn’t get into the dock in Gibraltar, what they burned on - so there in length, and not in terms of displacement, they did not fit into the dimensions of the dock. The British, therefore, let the Italians get away the extra tons of displacement, knowing the peculiarities of Italian ship architecture: everything was too long for greater speed, and the extra displacement was most likely just a tribute to hydrodynamics.

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