Media: The Ministry of Defense will order 8 destroyers "Leader"

The Russian military department plans to order 8 Leader-type nuclear destroyers, the construction of which should start in 2018 g, reports TASS source message in the defense industry.

According to the interlocutor, "The Northern Design Bureau must complete the creation of the technical project of the destroyer in the fourth quarter of 2017 of the year, after which the Defense Ministry will conclude a contract with the United Shipbuilding Corporation to build a series of ships of this type."

“The construction of the head" Leader "should begin at the beginning of 2018 of the year and be completed by the end of 2022 of the year, that is, it will last five years," he said.

“Initially, it was planned to build a series of 12 destroyers for the Navy, then this number was reduced to eight units - four each for the Northern and Pacific fleets. On others fleets - Baltic and Black Sea - the destroyers "Leader" will not serve, "- said the source.

He also said that the ships would equip Caliber and Onyx missiles with the Prometheus and Poliment-Redut anti-aircraft complexes C-500 (now being tested on the main frigate of the 22350 project Admiral Gorshkov), as well as missile-gun complex "Pantsir-M".

Comments

[katalonec2014]

4 "dried up", shikoko still see the light.

[seti]

8 means 4 for every two fleets. And two aircraft carriers "Storm" are planning. Surely one Orlan will be added to these groups. A powerful grouping is obtained.

[cniza]

Time flies quickly, maybe something will be corrected and the picture will be different. The construction of "toothy babies" is not excluded, which can significantly change the concentration of the group.

[Arberes]

Quote: cniza

Time flies quickly, maybe something will be corrected and the picture will be different

What can I answer you, dear cniza
Wait and see! Life makes its own adjustments. We will wait and believe!

[Darkmor]

For a long time ... it's all too long.
I am starting to think that this destroyer from the moment of its laying up to the moment of launching will have time to become morally obsolete at such a pace of construction.
No matter how it was eventually released in a single copy.

Perhaps the construction of mosquito fleet ships really makes sense, because their process chain is much shorter in time, and they are designed for a shorter service life.
During the development and construction of one "Leader", we can change 2-3 generations of RTOs.

[Inok10]

Quote: Darkmor

For a long time ... it's all too long.

... quickly The tale affects, but not quickly the matter is done ... Haste is needed only when catching fleas ...

I am starting to think that this destroyer from the moment of its laying up to the moment of launching will have time to become morally obsolete at such a pace of construction.

... well, how then Arlie Burke in construction since 1991, 62 pcs. riveted? ... not out of date? ... maybe we can talk about the Virginia class nuclear submarine? ... or the German frigates "Baden-Württemberg" with a construction period of 5 years are all super duper too, don't they become obsolete? ...

Quote: Darkmor

During the development and construction of one "Leader", we can change 2-3 generations of RTOs.

... is this for 5 years? ... weird weird, or didn’t know how to cheat? ...

[Darkmor]

but how then

Sense to give as an example the products of foreign countries? When we print the world currency, we, too, will be able to beat the bucks and take the number - spitting on quality and saving.

is this for 5 years?

No, this is already at least 10 years, from the beginning of the first publications about the "leader" to the expected launch. And this is the ideal. In practice, the dates will shift to the right several times.
As a result, by 2025-30 we will get a super-destroyer, built according to the project of 2015-16 on the technologies of 2012 or earlier.
Any qualitative leap forward in missile defense, air defense, anti-ship missile technologies will make this "leader" perhaps the leader of the rearguard. And it will happen - the only question is when - in 5 years, in 10 or in 15-20.

[Darkmor]

or Russia is some kind of exceptional element

Exactly. Our Navy is inadequate to our border and potential threats.
Therefore, they should be better and technologically better - either, you can forget about the Navy in general.

.. so you admit that Arleigh Burke is "in the hole" and has no military significance?

I said exactly what is written in my post - and speculation you start to do for me.

only today was published information ...

And the plans for the creation of the destroyer were put in the dad with the bar 10 years ago.
And another daddy, already with primary developments and a technical plan, was laid about 6 years ago on the table of the corresponding authorities - later the first messages about a promising ship came out.
I don’t vouch for dates, but something like this is done with us (and not with us).

what God knows in the project

Unfortunately, these people are not "gods". They will not be able to significantly change either the layout of the weapons, or the hull, or the radar of the destroyer after the documentation has been agreed with the design bureau. And when the destroyer is laid down at the shipyard, the percentage of what can be changed in it will generally tend to tenths of a unit - or it will require money and time, comparable to the construction of a new ship.

- bullshit is old ... liberalsiki, you dumb little mind ... at least learn to read, although why should you, you get paid for what you hide, the Internet will forgive everything ... laughing

Is it facing me?

S-500, "Zircon" on tests

AND? Are you sure that the new destroyer will be able to use them? His basic project is dated to a maximum of 2012m - which means that he will use weapons that are only compatible with the samples of that year, or specially designed for him.
And if it is still possible to cram the s-500 instead of the s-300, then "zircon" will be a substitute for what?

[Darkmor]

that is, Arlie Burke has not been outdated since 1991, and our 2017 "Leader" is already outdated

Yes, where does Arly Burke 91st year?
For his year he was an adequate ship - he stupidly had no competitors.
And even if there were - the possibility of the United States investing in the construction of the modernization of the entire series leveled any potential problems. When you have 60 ships rushing at you, and you only have a couple of dozens of similar ones, you don’t care that the armada thrusting at you is somewhat outdated.
The conversation that we cannot afford, like the US, to close design gaps with the number of boards and a bag of money.
And if the "leader", after launching in 10 years, turns out to be "insufficiently compatible with the new doctrine of the Navy", which will use (for example) railguns and over-the-horizon destruction of targets using adjustable projectiles at a speed of Mach 5 and laser missile destruction systems - we will have a floating museum, at best just one ... and a huge hole in the budget for the development of a new ship.

"Zircon" is launched from standard 3M14 UKSK

So far, it has not yet started from anywhere - they are trying to shove it into these dimensions and the container, whether it works out or not, we will find out in the future.

[Inok10]

Quote: Darkmor

Yes, where does Arly Burke 91st year?

... here to this:

Quote: Darkmor

As a result, by 2025-30 we will get a super-destroyer, built according to the project of 2015-16 on the technologies of 2012 or earlier.

... so what year is Arly Burke? ... 1985go ? ... of the project ...

Quote: Darkmor

For his year he was an adequate ship - he stupidly had no competitors.

... how to look ... surface or underwater? ... Does the 3M10 "Garnet" say something? ... who responds to an attempt to direct the jaw, the same ... it can be easier, under the ankle и sliding to the base of the skull ... a non-symmetrical answer is called, in Russian ...

Quote: Darkmor

And even if there were - the possibility of the United States investing in the construction of the modernization of the entire series leveled any potential problems.

... yeah, it is still leveled to this day, without successfully since 1991 ...

Quote: Darkmor

When you have 60 ships rushing at you, and you only have a couple of dozens of similar ones, you don’t care that the armada thrusting at you is somewhat outdated.

... is it with "Harpoons" or what? ... 8 on board ... gee-gee ... The old man P-120 "Malachite" will make of them ... a continuous struggle for survivability for the next 24 hours ... if they do not immediately sink, from a simple missile boat pr . 1241 "Lightning", it is not even worth spending something more weighty on them P-500 "Basalt", P-700 "Granit", P-800 "Onyx", P-1000 Vulcan "...

Quote: Darkmor

The conversation that we cannot afford, like the US, to close design gaps with the number of boards and a bag of money.

... so this has not happened since the days of the USSR ... spending money on zero is the prerogative of the mattresses ... ... it's theirs Иexclusive ... To fools, the law is not written, they are Exceptional ...

Quote: Darkmor

And if the "leader", after launching in 10 years, turns out to be "insufficiently compatible with the new doctrine of the Navy", which will use (for example) railguns and over-the-horizon destruction of targets using adjustable projectiles at a speed of Mach 5 and laser missile destruction systems - we will have a floating museum, at best just one ... and a huge hole in the budget for the development of a new ship.

... railguns and lasers? ... hold me three, otherwise I’ll fall and laugh ... ... now I can calmly enter the new working week ... Men are not in danger of anything to us, except for a fit of laughter ...

Quote: Darkmor

So far, it has not yet started from anywhere - they are trying to shove it into these dimensions

... to your regret ... already being tested and UKSK for the modernized "Nakhimov" has already been ordered ...

[Darkmor]

so what year is Arly Burke? ... 1985th?

And how many times has it been upgraded? How much money has the United States poured into having their destroyers receive 2 upgrades of all systems except the power plant and hull?
Here "something is still being leveled"

surface or underwater?

Any in total.
With the collapse of the USSR, there were no countries left in the world capable of making a serial ship for naval confrontation with this missile destroyer. China could do something, but their rocket technology at that time was seriously behind the United States.

3M10 "Pomegranate" says something?

This is a cruise missile for hitting stationary objects, you destroy an enemy destroyer only if it is anchored and the team sunbathes on the shore.

is it with "Harpoons" or what? ... 8 on board ... gee-gee

No - this is with several aircraft carriers, to which they provide cover from all missile weapons and aircraft.
For each Old Man P-120 "Malachite" there will be 3-4 interceptor missiles.
Part of the Tomogawks will obviously be in the anti-ship version. And how many missiles will they need to destroy our entire fleet, including small boats with such an advantage in quantity?

... railguns and lasers? ... hold me three, otherwise I’ll fall and laugh ...

"Bow and arrows? Hold me four, or I'll die laughing - a stick with a mammoth bone is the best weapon." - I think one of the leaders of one of the extinct tribes thought the same.
I can continue this chain of weapons and technology up to the present day, on which someone laughed, and then was killed or subjugated.
What seems fantastic to you now can become the norm in ten years. And I would very much like for this to be understood even at headquarters when ordering a ship, and in research institutes during its design.

Zircon is already being tested

When it is being tested and will fly at the required speed, we will talk about the fact that it was ordered for Nakhimov.
And now there are still 3 options -
either the project will be closed
or the missile will acquire other mass-dimensional characteristics and require a different launcher,
either the guidance system will require another radar / AFAR. And any of these options will put an end to the use of this rocket on existing ships.

PS
I found an article on the site about your favorite eagles of berka, read - there a lot of things agree with my thesis that good destroyers at the beginning very quickly became obsolete, lost their relevance with the collapse of the USSR, and became just a hole in the budget for various modernizations, attempts to make rhino giraffe with crowbar and ax.
https://topwar.ru/34828-degradaciya-esmincev-orli
-berk.html

[Inok10]

is this arly burke

Quote: Darkmor

And how many times has it been upgraded? How much money has the United States poured into having their destroyers receive 2 upgrades of all systems except the power plant and hull?

ah, this is for "Leader"

I am starting to think that this destroyer from the moment of its laying up to the moment of launching will have time to become morally obsolete at such a pace of construction.

... in the first case, the Individual talks about Arlie Burke ... in the second about "Leader" ... do you feel the difference? ... Arlie Burke of the 1985 project in construction since 1991 and the Russian "Leader" sample of 2017 with a bookmark in 2018 ... pay attention to the "aspiration" towards the mattress covers ... from the point of view of the commentator, everything is ok .. . ah, even not knowing the performance characteristics of "Lidir" everything is already bad ... well, funny, right ... kindergarten, panties with straps ...

Quote: Darkmor

With the collapse of the USSR, there were no countries left in the world capable of making a serial ship for naval confrontation with this missile destroyer.

... even MRK "Buyan-M" drowns it ... not to mention the avenue of MRK 22800 .... anti-ship missiles are not comparable in performance characteristics ... 3M54 in two versions, 500 kg warhead and more modest 250 kg. but 2,5M at the end and the Harpoon is subsonic, as old as Arleigh Burke's Cold War ...

Quote: Darkmor

Part of the Tomogawks will obviously be in the anti-ship version. And how many missiles will they need to destroy our entire fleet, including small boats with such an advantage in quantity?

... you don't have to read further ... "Tomahawk" suddenly became anti-ship ... Teach materiel, Son ... it was only developed as RCC ... shame then however ...

[Alf]

“The construction of the head" Leader "should begin at the beginning of 2018 of the year and be completed by the end of 2022 of the year, that is, it will last five years," he said.

I am starting to think that this destroyer from the moment of its laying up to the moment of launching will have time to become morally obsolete at such a pace of construction.

That is, if the lead destroyer is built for 5 years, then it will become obsolete.
BUT!
Zumvolt was also built for 5 years, and nothing was out of date.

[Darkmor]

Zumvolt was also built for 5 years, and nothing was out of date.

Actually out of date :)
Zamvolt, by the way, is a good example of what I fear.
In principle, it was outdated even before bookmarking at the shipyard - but the project documentation was ready and the money allocated and spent, the forcemeat cannot be rolled back.
This iron was designed when the irons were in fashion. The United States also had a flying iron - which is now decommissioned. Then everyone was worn with stealth technology and a decrease in EPR due to deviation.
This was done because in those days (80-90s) the only The method of guiding missiles at remote targets was radio illumination. As a result, stealth was almost equal to invulnerability.
And voila - a new round of technology, miniaturization, processors, optics, power systems - everything leaped forward and it turned out that the shape of the iron is now, it’s not even stealth - it’s violating aerodynamics (regarding f117, there’s not much information about it) rudiment - because the radar power has increased , and the missiles themselves began to recognize much weaker signatures, and even have several guidance modes.
Zamvolt tried to upgrade in the process.
As a result, the construction estimate increased 2 times or 3 times relative to the base, just to make this ship at least justify its existence.
If Zamvolt had appeared in the year 2000, it would have been considered a superweapon for ten more years, before which any squadrons of the world would tremble.
I do not diminish his innovation at all - this is indeed the most promising of its class warships in the world. It carries an excellent missile system, an excellent artillery system, many functions are automated ... but its main advantage has been leveled, so now it is an expensive floating iron.

[x.andvlad]

Quote: Arberes

Wait and see! Life makes its own adjustments. We will wait and believe!

Wait 40 years? (8 pcs. X 5 years).
Well then, really, there is time to wait, believe and make adjustments.

[Arberes]

Quote: seti

8 means 4 for every two fleets.

Immediately I say - I'm not a naval one. I just think that one would not hurt the Black Sea Fleet too, for fast rotation in the Mediterranean? We are there on a permanent basis? The cruisers will sooner or later be decommissioned, so one "Leader" would not hurt.

[Fafnir]

He is atomic. So it’s impossible to the Black Sea.

[Arberes]

Quote: Fafnir

He is atomic. So it’s impossible to the Black Sea.

Yes, as they say - I didn’t notice the elephant! You are right with the atomic engine does not ride. Then all hope for Syria. It is necessary to expand and equip the base. Well, first of course, finish with the barmales.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Arberes

I just think that the Black Sea Fleet would not be in the way of one too, for quick rotation in the Mediterranean

What for? That is, you can send it there, but it turns out like in the proverb about hammering nails with a microscope. Such ships are designed for operations in the ocean, and for the Black Sea Fleet the maximum reasonable is 7-8 thousand tons, and preferably 4-7 thousand tons.

[parkello]

I would not like to upset you about this, but so far no one is planning to build aircraft carriers. until Kuzya is afloat. he’ll start to become obsolete morally and physically, by that time they will prepare technical documentation, create the appropriate facilities for its production. infrastructure, while they will prepare deck pilots, launch support vessels and escort ships, which would be a full-fledged AUG, and there’s a lot of things . therefore, at the top, knowing all this, no one scratches about an aircraft carrier. Kuzya still walks around the seas for 10-15 years, and there you look and tighten all the nuts, but for 10-15 years no one will even move an egg. destroyers are needed more than an aircraft carrier. There are no Mistral, Rhino do not want. And meanwhile the fleet needed at least Mistral. it’s not just a big, universal landing ship. it is both a control point, and a hospital and a battalion of marines with its armored vehicles and landing boats. these are attack helicopters and air assault. a couple of such ships did the weather, and good weather. so maybe they will start to be built soon if they prepare the production.

[Alex777]

Much has been said about the construction of helicopter carriers, even a quantity of 6 pieces has been announced and 2 projects have been shown, but so far everything has calmed down even more than about destroyers.
Frigates are needed to accompany helicopter carriers. With them in any way. Alas.
As for the destroyers, there is an intrigue: the head of the SPKB in one of his interviews, when asked about the "Krylov" destroyer, said that the SPKB was designing the Leader and no one else. I dodged the details.
PS There are rumors about Kuzyu and its lengthy repairs that the EU is replaced by a nuclear power plant. Incredible, but possible. With your opinion that no one will do anything with aircraft carriers - I do not agree. But the facts, right now, no one will tell us.

[parkello]

You may not agree, but I am telling you for sure, no one will build an aircraft carrier for another 10 years. there is no urgent need for it, but as long as there is Ad.-ral Kuznetsov, with his birds, all the power will develop around other ships from small missile ships to frigates, and of submarines. about the nuclear power plant at Kuzyu ... it's hard to believe. although to be honest, it’s hard to believe at all. but about the facts, then there is a long way to go and look for nothing. the only question is, on which shipyards to build it? they are not rubber. those that were in the USSR remained in "nezalezhnaya", in Nikolaev, and where else? in Kaliningrad? don't tell me, in St. Petersburg? it's not a patrol boat to build and not even a frigate, it's a whole aircraft carrier. Therefore, I say that in the beginning the infrastructure must be developed for the construction of this type of ships, power is needed, but where can I get it? and Kuzya is, here he is. shamanit a little and again for a month - another in the sea, especially since there are already airplanes under it and deck pilots, not a lot, but there is enough for him. and so I have nothing more to add. I've already said a lot.

[Alex777]

In the Far East. They make a new shipyard.
True, I hope at the beginning there they will modernize Lazarev, in parallel with Peter.
Technologically, it would be competent.

[Sevastiec]

It's hard to say ... What is our goal? What is the mission of our fleet? Oppose American? Then it is more realistic for us to build a nuclear submarine. It is unrealistic for us to build a surface fleet comparable to the US fleet. If we are talking about the projection of force on the conflicts of the third world countries, then, as Syria has shown, we need landing ships and banal transporters much more. It was only after the start of the Syrian operation that I realized why we needed the Mistrals. Of course, the area must be secured. For protection from hostile fleets, nuclear submarines are suitable. For air defense (we proceed from the concept that we do not have a ground base, as in Syria and the entire operation is carried out by the forces of the fleet), of course, surface ships are needed, but what should they be? Arsenal ships? So can there be submarine arsenals, for example, a project to modernize project 949 cruisers, for a universal launcher with the replacement of 24 "granites", 72 "caliber", "onyx" or "zircon"? Maybe we'd better focus on strategic aviation? By the way, the Americans, when designing a new aircraft strategy, assign more tasks to it than to their own aircraft carrier fleet. More specifically, I got the impression that they are considering it as the main means of inflicting a global (well, limited) strike. Maybe in general the time of aircraft carriers is passing and the Americans, who have the richest experience in using them, know what they are doing? Many questions, in short.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Sevastiec

Maybe we better focus on strategic aviation.

There is a difference between projection of force and restraint. SA and submarines are intended primarily for the second. Suppose a submarine with 72 missiles floats off the coast of country X, so what? Nobody sees her and she can prove herself only if she has to shoot. And if a couple of surface frigates will swim near the shore, then everyone already sees this and the very fact of their presence makes you think.
How often does a SA take part in hostilities? And how often is ordinary?

Quote: Sevastiec

It was only after the start of the Syrian operation that I realized why we needed the Mistrals.

Every time I remember all kinds of lovers of the "defensive doctrine."

[parkello]

yes elementary things. An aircraft carrier needs good air defense, and who will provide it? he needs both anti-submarine protection, and support vessels, and in short ... there is so much that is needed there that it is simply not profitable to build it. Well, what will one aircraft carrier give? there the French have and what next? French superpower? How much have they done in Syria? and if Russia had a couple of landing ships, they would have made a rustle there with beards, together with missiles and of course with one diesel-electric submarine, and the possibility of landing an entire battalion of marine corps with their armored vehicles is also not an empty phrase, and the aircraft carrier needs a whole squadron to escort, yes and the dog with him what is needed, but where to get it? where to get all these BOD, destroyers and frigates and all kinds of tugboats? and there you need to heap everything ... and the Tu-160 will fly in a couple where it is necessary and will do much more than all the MiGs on Kuznetsovo combined. Do you have AWACS aircraft for an aircraft carrier? also not .. and what is there for him at all ... only the MiG-29KR and KUB, and nothing more. and what is now to build an aircraft carrier, and this should be 10 years, if not more, under the MiG-29? oh, in short ... that's it. I'm tired...

[Homo]

Quote: katalonec2014

4 "dried up", shikoko still see the light.

And this depends on the economic situation in the world and around Russia. Less than 4 will not be and maybe 12.

[katalonec2014]

Let's hope that the economic situation will change for the better, and there you look and the number of orders will increase, well the crisis will be eternal.

[Teberii]

We’ll wait and see how they act. As independent units, or in a group.

[Tusv]

Quote: Teberii

We’ll wait and see how they act. As independent units, or in a group.

And when in our country they adopted a truncated weapons unit? Even submarines can attack with a group

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Teberii

how they will act. As independent units, or in a group.

Even "Bismarck" went on its last campaign together with "Prince Eugen". We only have rpkSNs alone.
Leaders will either be part of the AUG order, or they will be the core of the AUG.

[Inok10]

... well, here’s the answer to the questions posed earlier ... a hen pecking a grain ... without noise and dust, according to a previously assigned combat mission ...

[Banishing liberoids]

This means that the Liberians have reduced the defense budget, since the fleet will not receive four destroyers, and eight of them are not in the goose, not in the company. In the north and the Far East, at least eight are needed, the fleet is aging, the wear is high, and whether we get eight, I doubt it!

[Inok10]

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

in the north and the Far East there are at least eight such

... well, from the sofa, it is certainly more visible how much and where, do not forget to drive a dozen destroyers into the Caspian ...

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

the fleet is aging, the wear is high, and if we get eight, I doubt it!

... and, you dear, wait and find out ... chickens are considered in the fall ... doubts are the enemy of any undertaking ... previously they "squeaked" - they will not, now they squeak - "little" ... only "squeak" remains unchanged ...

[Banishing liberoids]

A monk, you can sit on the couch, don’t judge everyone by yourself, only it’s autumn in the fall, and our fleet really gets very old and fast, and from your smarties the old, worn-out destroyer will not become new, but for modernization you need a lot of things, including turbines.

[Vz.58]

For modernization, both turbines and diesel are needed. Nuclear reactors are expensive, however. And the budget is not rubber, you need to invest in medicine, and in retirement, and in science. MONEY, and not printed priceless pieces of paper, or rather, you need to use the available funds. And not all to spend on the defense industry, but it will turn out like with the USSR.

[vlad_vlad]

Nuclear reactors are expensive, however. And the budget is not rubber, you need to invest in medicine, and in retirement, and in science.

Are you a liberal? nafig medicine, pensions and science - you give destroyers, tanks and nuclear reactors!
a true patriot does not agree to cut defense budgets — other budgets must be cut. There, Kim in Korea has enough money for nuclear weapons - and that Russia can not afford a couple of destroyers?

[Inok10]

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

and, from your smarties, the old, worn-out destroyer will not become new

... are you talking about the 956 project "Sarych"? sample 1976? .. with a boiler-turbine power plant? ... and what are the problems with the turbines? ... maybe you have a little "taste in the topic"? ... read the difference between a boiler-turbine and a gas-turbine power plant ...

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

including turbines.

... do not worry so much ... for gas turbine, installation 2017, series 2018 ... already thirty times everything has been disassembled ... but if you "beguiled" an object with a finger, that is, 956 and BOD 1155 with a gas turbine power plant and talk about their modernization, then there are no problems with turbines, there are two M9s, which have been being repaired at the Kronstadt Marine Plant since the times of the USSR ...

[Vladimirets]

Quote: Exorcist Liberoids

in the Far East there are at least eight such

Interestingly, how did you calculate the minimum quantity? How much is eight, not ten, or five?

[Alex777]

According to the mind, a multiple of 3 should be.
Some on a campaign, others on vacation in readiness, and others on VTG.
Therefore, Varshavyanka and 11356 ordered 6 each.
The US cannot hold more than 4 aircraft carriers in active action, because there are 10 of them in all.
What they say about 8 destroyers now leaves hope for 12.

[sub307]

"So the Liberas pushed for a cut in the defense budget ..."
Not in the course who and what "pushed through" there, I read only somewhere that the Ministry of Finance (like) recommended to reduce the defense budget by 6%, respectively, in relation to the 16th year .. Bad "signal" in my opinion. And what will happen with the "long-term prospects" is generally difficult to imagine ....

[ALEA IACTA EST]

From the beginning, they promoted a reduction in cost of cutting ...

[fzr1000]

That's noticeable)))

[Vladimir 38]

Great news, what for to build hulks, it is better less, more effective and more!

[VP]

Is it petty? The displacement is like that of the battleship of the Dreadnought, which before the PMV made obsolete vessels all the rest of the armored ships of the world.

[neo1200]

effective countermeasures for the Americans need at least 24 destroyers and 8 cruisers. And 8 destroyers are chickens to laugh

[bulvas]

Quote: neo1200

effective countermeasures for the Americans need at least 24 destroyers and 8 cruisers. And 8 destroyers are chickens to laugh

So create a movement in your region - the refusal of state employees from salaries, pensioners from pensions, then from roads, schools, hospitals.

Maybe pick up another ship

[Pierre harry]

If you create a movement to abandon the oligarchs, then without straining, you can build 50 of these destroyers, apart from everything else and more.

[user1212]

Take and share. Old as the world. More recently, Ukrainians did this, striking successes

[Cat man null]

Quote: user1212

Take and share. Old as the world. More recently, Ukrainians did this, striking successes

- the funniest thing is that the adherents of the "take and divide" sect naively believe that they will get something during the division
- they "get" only "take away". And yet they really ... um, will get. Then everything taken away will be taken from the crowd and divided ... without her participation.
- An example of Ukraine in their nose ... and in all other places. Maybe change their minds ... although, IMHO, it is unlikely

[OLD FART]

Cat Man Null Today, 13:20 PM ↑ New
Quote: user1212
Take and share. Old as the world. More recently, Ukrainians did this, amazing successes laughing

- the funniest thing is that the adherents of the "take away and divide" sect naively believe that they will get something fool
- they "get" only "take away". And while they really ... um, get it. Then all that was taken away from the crowd and divided ... without her participation.
- An example of Ukraine in their nose ... and in all other places. Maybe they will change their minds ... although, IMHO, hardly any

How smart are you ...)))) IMHO ..

[Rastas]

To take away and divide is much more humane than to divide, and then to take away.

[weksha50]

user1212 Today, 13:17 PM ↑
"Take away and divide. Old as the world. More recently, Ukrainians did this, amazing successes "...

And why did they take it from the oligarchs there?

[Pierre harry]

1. When did the Ukrainians abandon the oligarchy? The oligarchs Firtashi, Akhmetov, Poroshenko, Kolomoisky and others continue to rule Ukraine.
2. It is absolutely not necessary to take away, it’s not enough to multiply the oligarchy and to begin with introduce at least progressive taxation, if you don’t want to divide it, it’s enough to direct it to national needs — for example, defense, science, education, medicine ....

[user1212]

And why not 240 destroyers and 80 cruisers? Do you need 120 aircraft carriers? 300 SSBNs won't hurt either There are doubts that they will be able to build 8 in 5 years, and give him 24. If these have passed well in 7 years, it’s not worth ordering a large series of ships, which so far exist only on paper

[katalonec2014]

Oh, how I would like to share your optimism, but this is not so.
For five years, and if this is not delayed, only the head one will be built. The first, it is always "with a creak," but then like clockwork.

[user1212]

Really wrong. thank

[Vz.58]

In the Far East, not only because of the United States, you need to have "ears on top of your head"

[Wiruz]

Well, at least not two, otherwise they could have one each for the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet. And given the "high" rates of construction of the same frigates of project 22350, we can say that Russia does not have a fleet of the ocean zone and in the next decade will not

[VP]

Quote: neo1200

at least 24 destroyers and 8 cruisers

According to your estimates, what is the approximate amount?
A couple of trillions is enough?

[kagorta]

I propose measuring in Colonels Zakharchenko. How many colonels do you need per destroyer? In my opinion it’s easier to plan.

[VP]

I think a few mouths.

[creak]

Quote: kagorta

I propose measuring in Colonels Zakharchenko. How many colonels do you need per destroyer?

And if you add Governor Geiser with accomplices? .... .

[sub307]

"He also said that the ships will be armed with Caliber and Onyx missiles ..."
And why not the hypeosonic "Zircon", by the time the ships appeared according to the plan, it should have "matured" too.

[Old26]

Quote: Vladimir 38

Great news, what for to build hulks, it is better less, more effective and more!

It is difficult to call the news "excellent" if their number has not yet begun to be built.

Quote: Vladimir 38

Great news, what for to build hulks, it is better less, more effective and more!

I'm not sure that what is shown in the picture is this destroyer. In the network "Leader" (or "Shkval") - HZ how and how they differ, perhaps "Shkval" is one of the variants of the "Leader", but it is positioned as ships with a displacement of 17500-18000 tons, that is, as a cruiser of the project 1164. So nevertheless the "whopper" turns out.

[Monarchist]

We must rejoice, but doubts prevail: 1 Will there be enough funds to meet the deadline? 2 to be armed with "polemints", but there is a lot of information that "Polemint-Redut" is still raw. 3 where to build, in fact, there is no one to build even simpler frigates: there is not enough personnel.
4. On the pages of our review doubts have already been expressed where such bulks can be based, and YaU is also annoying.

[jayich]

At the Baltic plant, Chernomyrdin will be lowered (a 25000-ton diesel icebreaker, slipway number 2), just by this time the pats will be completed, they may be laid down, the spent reactor as well as the power plant, a star will be built in the Far East, the Kerch plant will come to life by then. Those. 3 shipyards where you can lay.

[igor.borov775]

Hi!! Slowly, the very everyone is waiting for the main core of the grouping of the main classes of ships. The eagles will make up the core. The most interesting and toothed babies have not been forgotten ... The time of pulling from one extreme to the other is over ... The systematic construction and creation of new weapons began. It will be clear by the year 20 that exactly has already been tested and finalized ..

[mr.redpartizan]

Eight even such powerful ships of the weather will not do. 12-16 such destroyers are already able to pose a threat to the enemy's Navy. The whole problem rests in the absence of a gas turbine, and a nuclear power plant requires a large displacement of the ship. We need massive gas-turbine destroyers of 9-10 thousand tons displacement, which will be built in dozens. Frigates and corvettes are only suitable for operations near our shores, and ships of the ocean zone are needed.

[jayich]

Gorshkov in composition of weapons is approximately equal to Admiral Chebonenko.

[fa2998]

Quote: seti

8 means 4 for every two fleets. And two aircraft carriers "Storm" are planning. Surely one Orlan will be added to these groups. A powerful grouping is obtained.

You first build destroyers! They have not yet been designed. Only different pictures on the Internet. And the experience of building large ships is less. Those experienced personnel who built the cruisers and destroyers back in the Soviet Union or the kingdom of heaven.
And with the "Storm" do not rush. There is no combat use of aircraft carrier groups both in the USSR and in Russia, maybe we do not need them? And with the "Orlans" - until everything that you have proposed will be built (15-20-25 years) - it's time "Eagles" write off.

[mr.redpartizan]

First you need to build destroyers, and only then take on the aircraft carrier. For the aircraft carrier, it is already necessary to develop a carrier-based version of the PAK FA. The MiG-29K will become obsolete by the time the ship is built. It is better to build the lead destroyer on the basis of already worked out systems ("Fort-M" air defense missile systems, KN-3 reactors, AK-130 gun), otherwise the construction will take about 15 years. Systems should be installed on subsequent ships as they are developed. The RITM-200 reactors must first show themselves on icebreakers, and the Polyment-Redut air defense missile system - on frigates 22350. Only by evolutionary way can you get a combat-ready ship.

[Odysseus]

The news is aimed at idiots. The first Ash-tree was built for 21 years, the second is still not accepted. Gorshkov with a displacement of 4500 tons is being built 10 years ago, the fleet has not been transferred.
And here they are still completely non-existent nuclear destroyer (cruiser) with a displacement of 17000 tons are going to be done in 5 years. And also to buy as many as 8 of these ships.
Why the Ministry of Defense should disgrace itself by publishing such "news" is unclear. It is clear that we live in a bourgeois world where advertising is everything, reality is nothing, but any advertising must be believable.

[Bath]

So elections on the nose need the serfs of the king, the priest, in his great power, to show and there either the people will grow wiser or the power will change and the babos has already been sawed and transferred to the patrimonial accounts

[Odysseus]

Quote: Bath

Duc elections on the nose need the servants of the king priest in the strength of his great show

This is understandable, but, I repeat, any manipulation of consciousness / advertising should be believable. Otherwise, there will be no effect. Here the obvious stupidity of PR-schiki is, because no one pulled them by the tongue and made them speak deliberately fancy terms.

Quote: Bath

and transferred to patrimonial accounts
Reply Quote Complaint More ...

By the way, this is also a problem now.
Previously, it was just-pushing about the "ineffective scoop" and the terrible "Stalinist repressions", plus about Russia which rises from its knees-sawing the former public property-withdrawing money abroad-profit.
And now, when Western "partners" all the time strive to steal what was honestly stolen, it became not entirely clear where the money should be withdrawn? You almost have to keep at home

[jayich]

Yes, no principle really, the Baltic Shipyard nuclear icebreakers are riveting very quickly now. I just need a magic pendell.

[Odysseus]

Quote: jayich

Yes, no principle really, the Baltic Shipyard nuclear icebreakers are riveting very quickly now. I just need a magic pendell.

Really? Well, let's bet any bet at your discretion (but not less than 100 thousand to make it interesting). If the first destroyer is handed over to the fleet by the end of 2022, I will transfer money to your account, if not, are you ready for me. Are you ready?

[jayich]

Of course I’m not ready, but why argue, I’m not even sure what they will lay in 2022. Theoretically, they can, practically not sure, strongly not sure. One can only hope for the best.

[Winnie76]

Quote: jayich

Yes, no principle really, the Baltic Shipyard nuclear icebreakers are riveting very quickly now.

Icebreakers are apparently much simpler. The main problems with the filling. And if they were also going to nibble the S-500, it would be an epic abruptly ashen. It’s better to build a couple of dozen real frigates like Gorshkov’s than invest in this unfinished building. Ships are needed yesterday, to hell with it - with the ocean zone, to protect our coast.

[Kasym]

I think we should look at the shipyards. Recently, a new plant was commissioned in the Far East (or is going to be commissioned), where Korean investors (Hyundai) are present - they are going to build ships of any tonnage, up to offshore drilling platforms. VVP promised the admirals that it would "think" about the "needs" of the Navy for this facility. As I understand it, after being left without capacities in Ukraine and the Baltic states, shipbuilding has lost a lot. And what is, in the opinion of many experts, work for the needs of the Navy. Ports should also be considered as infrastructure objects. They seem to be built too (Baltic, North and Far East).
I think that if development (ports and factories) goes this way, then the construction of ships of any coverage area will not get up. And to civil shipbuilding ... in short, build factories and you will be ... happiness on the seas and oceans .

[jayich]

Yes, not to say that it is simpler, in theory, each icebreaker is a mob reserve in case of war, and a place for armament is reserved for them.

[colonel manuch]

It is high time to start construction, but thanks to "effective managers" from USC, the start of construction is being delayed, the allocated funds are being "used" and it is not a fact that the head leader will be built on time. It's high time to put things in order in the defense industry!

[Grandson of Veteran]

Quote: Inok10

... and, how then Arly Burke in construction since 1991, 62 pcs. riveted? ... don't get obsolete? ...

It would be an average of 2,5 things per year. A slightly different pace, do not you think?

[Old26]

Quote: polkovnik manuch

It is high time to start construction, but thanks to "effective managers" from USC, the start of construction is being delayed, the allocated funds are being "used" and it is not a fact that the head leader will be built on time. It's high time to put things in order in the defense industry!

Do not blame everything on "effective managers". There is simply NOTHING to build. There is no project yet. Models have been shown at all exhibitions for 10-12 years already. Of the armaments, too, most of them are not yet.
"Polyment-Redut" is still very, very raw. The S-500 is not yet even in the land version. "Pantsir-M" also does not exist in the navy

[jayich]

956, the project went into testing without a part of the armament; it’s enough to reserve a place, while working out, while working out, and during the average repair, install what is missing.

[Taygerus]

God forbid, the news pleases and correctly did why such boxes on the seas and even atomic ones, there are fewer and fewer ones to dig in if necessary, give God again so that everything is according to plan

[Old26]

Quote: Florizel

Why are you so, fighting hamsters have already captured half the world and you leave them without weapons, it’s not good comrade.

What to do. There is such a feature. I do not like hat-making and lulling.
Even the exact appearance is not yet known (the models do not count, but even they differ from the photo at the beginning of the article), and already in the opinion of some "they will tear everyone" ...

[Phosgene]

There is no Redoubt air defense system and S-500 air defense system, and it is a big mistake to build ships for them, comparable to a crime, or is it deliberate sabotage. Ships need to be built for the weapons that already exist and really work. For example, under the air defense system "Calm" and missiles "Caliber". As a platform for launching cruise missiles, these ships can be useful, but only when equipped with operational weapons ...

[pooop]

Five years to build, it’s just to subscribe to the technological backlog. From the beginning, logistics needs to be adjusted, for five years, hell knows what can happen, half will remain on paper and the second will rot on a slipway. Five years is too much, three years is the maximum !!

[Balferov]

[quote = Inok10] [quote = Darkmor] For a long time ... all this is too long. [/ quote]
... quickly The tale affects, but not quickly the matter is done ... Haste is needed only when catching fleas ...
[quote] ... [/ Quote]
A WHOLE YEAR creating a technical project .... is it a rush?!?

[Balferov]

And then they will conclude a contract (maybe) ... a couple of years .... Why, of course, a rush in such a matter, and you continue to catch fleas there slowly.

[Engineer]

8, Karl, nuclear 17,5k tons stuffed with cruiser missiles! Very well!

[Alekst]

I wonder why the destroyer? it seems like the destroyer is a destroyer, or is it just a type of ship smaller than a cruiser?

[Alexey-74]

Good ships .... and yet the question of large ships remains open ...... with them somehow more reliable

[Tektor]

It seems to me, more precisely - I am sure that the construction of a series of ships of the project 23560 Leader is the pivotal in the implementation of the concept of the Russian fleet of the 21st century. Moreover, their construction should be shortened in terms of time, and together with the 1144 Orlans, their number should be at least 12, which will make it possible to be present in each of the oceans on an ongoing basis. Necessary and sufficient.

[Nehist]

Gg is funny !!! This time again they are ordered then? In my memory, three times already. And with Polent-Redoubt this is generally an epic !!! And where will they get the S-500? They are generally still only in paper form.

[Mountain shooter]

Nuclear power plants for surface ships are not only good (unlimited range, speed, etc.), but also a problem - they will be prohibited from entering many ports of the world. Well, the fact that such ships are NOT REQUIRED either in the Baltic Sea or in the Black Sea is understandable, these are ships of long voyages, the ocean zone, they are closely and uncomfortable in closed waters.

[Alex_59]

Considering that even in the best Soviet times, the operating voltage coefficient rarely exceeded 0,5, this means that by the 2030 year our two most powerful fleets will shrink to the 2 constantly ready ships of the 1 rank. Sadness ...