Alternative service may be allowed to take place at the Far Eastern defense enterprises

A number of strategic enterprises in the Far East may be included in the list of allowed alternative military service, reports TASS.

The corresponding initiative to the Ministry of Labor and Social Protection was sent by the Agency for the Development of Human Capital in the Far East (ARCHKD).

“We are sending materials to the Ministry of Labor and Social Protection, in which we presented our position and agreed on it with the Russian Ministry for the Development of the East, would like to enlist the support of the Ministry of Labor. All enterprises can be included (in the list), but at least we are sure that Komsomolsky-on-Amur should be included aviation Yard (KnAAZ), Zvezda shipbuilding complex and other enterprises of significant strategic importance ”,

said the head of ARCCDV, Valentin Timakov.

He expressed the hope that the ministry would consider this proposal in the 3 month term.

“For example, according to Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the next year or two will appear before 1,8 thousand new jobs. It is clear that it is better to retain people than to attract. Each person involved costs the state an average of up to 500 thousand rubles. At the same time, it is usually worth retaining other money, alternative military service is a powerful tool for retaining just the able-bodied population, youth, ”the agency head added.

Comments

[Vladimir 38]

And it is right! Well done!

[Finches]

Here I met on duty with alternatives - they don’t know how to keep a broom, but here a defense enterprise ... Why will they be used there?

[vovanpain]

Quote: Finches

Here I met on duty with alternatives - they don’t know how to keep a broom, but here a defense enterprise ... Why will they be used there?

So for this very broomstick, well, if without jokes, what if it turns out, because if you train such an alternative person, it may work.

[Finches]

Everything is possible - labor, especially far away from my mother’s skirt, mobilizes a person! Of them, on the basis of student teams, brigades can be formed for unskilled labor, and if among them there will be hand-headed, then drop out for more complex jobs! In principle, the idea is not bad - just what will be its implementation mechanism?

[lis-ik]

Honestly, I generally thought that there were no alternative people now due to the fact that the service had already become a freebie, and then to normal enterprises, where you could stay.

[Mr.Evil]

There was a distribution system in the USSR, as an option, everything will go to the Far East. Either we populate the Far East, or we fill up the army with draftees)

[soaring]

And how much time will it take to make at least some craftsman out of such a sweeper? A year is not enough for sure, then the point? But you also need to feed and pay a salary for nothing ... In short, a very ill-considered curtsy!
Py. Sy. It's my opinion.

[Finches]

Alternative workers have been hired by the state for 18 months!

[SRC P-15]

Alternativeists, which religion does not allow?
So let the laborers go to the men's monasteries, there such "novices" will be gladly accepted, I hope.

[weksha50]

"vovanpain Today, 12:56 pm ↑
Quote: Finches
I met here on duty with alternatives - they don’t know how to keep a broom, but here a defense enterprise ...Why will they be used there?[i] [/ i] So for this very broomstick, well, if without jokes, what if it turns out, [b] because if such an alternative is also trained[/ b], maybe the case will go "...

For some reason, it seems to me that this decision concerns primarily young people working in defense enterprises - who have already received some specialty, or are studying this specialty ...
If so, then we can only welcome ...
But if "mowing" everyone, indiscriminately, is sent to a defense enterprise - then this is nonsense ...
Then, not only missiles will begin to fall on us, to the delight of our enemies ...
So let the Duma and the government think and bring this decision to mind ... No need for raw, hasty and generally proclaiming slogans-decisions ...

PS And let this "reservation" exist for the entire draft age (up to 27 years) ... Left the factory earlier - forward, to the troops, and necessarily - to the motorized rifle, so that he could run, crawl, and dig to his heart's content ...

[vovanpain]

Quote: weksha50

For some reason, it seems to me that this decision concerns primarily young people working in defense enterprises - who have already received some specialty, or are studying this specialty ...
If so, then you are welcome ..

Georgy Here is my comment about the same thing, as they say a lot will depend on the trainer, if you take an interest in an alternative specialist and train him correctly, an excellent specialist can grow up over time,

Quote: weksha50

But if "mowing" everyone, indiscriminately, is sent to a defense enterprise - then this is nonsense ...
Then, not only missiles will begin to fall on us, to the delight of our enemies ...
So let the Duma and the government think and bring this decision to mind ... No need for raw, hasty and generally proclaiming slogans-decisions ...

Here, as they say, a double-edged sword, and it can be, but of course no one will let them go to the products and return to my comment again, you need to learn and draw conclusions about who can become a specialist and who can only be trusted with a broom. Well, what about our Duma, they now have one thought-As if for the next term. On a new election. Yes, and then the government

Quote: weksha50

PS And let this "reservation" exist for the entire conscription age (up to 27 years) ... Left the factory earlier - forward, to the troops, and necessarily - to the motorized rifle, so that he could run, crawl, and dig to his best.

George, here to your words, there is no alternative. Regards.

[weksha50]

vovanpain
"you need to teach and during your studies to draw conclusions, who can become a specialist"...

In fact, many of us in VO have already started working in the languages ​​of calluses, speaking about the need for this, and even more so in the MIC-OPK ...
However, in the Duma, the Government and various organizations somewhat lower (on the example of these, who submitted their not fully thought out and crude "initiative" - ​​so, for show, to show that they "are concerned and think") do not want to think about the real state of affairs and make some kind of cardinal and not just words of effective decisions ...

[alexmach]

if an alternative is interested in and

It seems to me that if they knew how to interest staff there, then they would not need alternative specialists.

[alexmach]

George, here to your words, there is no alternative. Regards.

Yeah, just without comment ... minus to you and George

[vovanpain]

Quote: weksha50

In fact, many of us in VO have already started working in the languages ​​of calluses, speaking about the need for this, and even more so in the MIC-OPK ...
However, in the Duma, the Government and various organizations somewhat lower (on the example of these, who submitted their not fully thought out and crude "initiative" - ​​so, for show, to show that they "are concerned and think") do not want to think about the real state of affairs and make some kind of cardinal and not just words of effective decisions.

Georgy, I don't even want to talk about the Duma and the government. One is a talking shop, no business is visible, but all the same, the idea is good, the vocational school system was destroyed, and nothing was created in return, only you are right or this initiative is for a tick or if it is , then they will either forget about it, as about Putin's May 2012 decrees, or distort it to a worthless state like the same decrees.

[alexmach]

PS And let this "reservation" exist for the entire draft age (up to 27 years) ... Left the factory earlier - forward, to the troops, and necessarily - to the motorized rifle, so that he could run, crawl, and dig to his heart's content ...

This has already passed in history. Serfdom was abolished in 1861. Well, and then what question will go to work for this defense enterprise to become a serf up to 27? For example, after graduating from the institute, I had the opportunity to go to work in the office, which required to sign a contract obligating her to work for three years. I shunned this wonderful opportunity as a plague.

[Cat man null]

For example, after graduating from the institute, I had the opportunity to go to work in the office, which required to sign a contract obligating her to work for three years. I shunned this wonderful opportunity as a plague.

- funny ... what about what year was that?
- because, I remember, under the Soviet Union there were such words as "distribution" and "young specialist"
- Duc, just "after graduation" the "young specialist" sent to the enterprise had no right to quit this enterprise for three years ... except for some very special and special cases
- and even transfer from unit to unit within this enterprise was not easy. By myself I know, I was doing it in my time

[victorsh]

I support. At the Chkalovsky plant, not every worker and engineer can get into the so-called "military" shop. And then there are some alternative workers.

[Hapfri]

This is all for reporting. And to seize the allocated funds. Slave labor is ineffective

[dmi.pris1]

Listen to you ... I will not even address with a capital letter .. Service to the Motherland-slave labor? Where did it come from, American dog? From "Rain" or somewhere else? Then quickly - to the place ..

[dmi.pris1]

I’m also thinking. Mama’s sons are spoiled for that, and there’s not enough of them .. What will they do at the factory? It’s hard for the locals to do it. Yes, they need skilled workers. And where did you see them among 18-20 year olds

[Vladimir 38]

In the beginning, as usual, bring the gift and do not interfere, then the gifted are selected from the gifted and entrusted with more responsible work. At the same time, many of them will decide on further work at this enterprise and will study, create families and inhabit our vast homeland. In my opinion - a great initiative.

[Makk]

In the beginning, as usual, bring the gift and do not interfere, then the gifted are selected from the gifted and entrusted with more responsible work. At the same time, many of them will decide on further work at this enterprise and will study, create families and inhabit our vast homeland. In my opinion - a great initiative.

Is this a quote from The Golden Book, as useful as it is funny about the best state system and the new Utopia island by Thomas More?

[dmi.pris1]

Such a system was ... In the Soviet Union ... I'm not talking about alternative service, but simply about training personnel. Now everything is being decided by family ties or as in the song "... you just have to lick the priest in time .."

[dmi.pris1]

Such a system was ... In the Soviet Union ... I'm not talking about alternative service, but simply about training personnel. Now everything is being decided by family ties or as in the song "... you just have to lick the priest in time .."

[dmi.pris1]

Such a system was ... In the Soviet Union ... I'm not talking about alternative service, but simply about training personnel. Now everything is being decided by family ties or as in the song "... you just have to lick the priest in time .."

[woron333444]

Back in Soviet times, I had two neighbors in the construction battalion on the defense line in Komsomolsk. None left, but came: one is a great welder, the second a turner.

[your1970]

It’s clear that it’s better hold people than to attract. Each involved costs the state an average of 500 thousand rubles. In this case, hold usually costs other money; alternative military service is a powerful tool retention of just able-bodied population, youth, ”added the head of the agency.
I really didn’t like this place, because it’s not clear what it means to attract? and why exactly 500 thousand? and for what?
People work there for s / n-so? Then what kind of money is still talking about?
muddy all somehow ....

[alexmach]

and for what?
People work there for s / n-so? Then what kind of money is still talking about?

For the salary, for her the most.
There is such a thing in capitalism as the cost of attracting labor resources. If it is not about unskilled workers, then it is not zero.

Just imagine that you have an open position at a defense plant .. there is a welder of some kind. For a salary naturally. How do you close it? Where can you find a welder? By mail from online stores, welders have not yet thought of selling.
Total your costs:
- to search. ads there in newspapers or on lampposts
- Communication with pritendetami, if any, proficiency testing, God forbid what else check on the line of the security service ...
- Employment and introduction to the course of things ... well, what exactly to cook there, I don’t know honestly, can a welder who has cooked something all his life at a construction site start to cook the ship’s hull right away, or do he still need to be taught .. .
- God forbid a non-resident welder, or is there from the nearest village, he needs some kind of housing .. at least a dorm room.
- maybe the welder goes from the other end of the starn? From St. Petersburg, for example, who will pay the train ticket for him? He will go to you at his own expense?
- While you are still looking for this welder, a job for which you were looking for him from you, what? Is it worth it? - pay a penalty for failure to meet deadlines. Others do - pay them overtime.

That's somehow it.

[your1970]

Do you think that viewing ads costs 500 thousand ???? ticket for travel ??? room ?? so only when the USSR was ....
And now everything is much simpler - pay a normal salary and on time and the welders will come to you and find housing themselves, don’t pay, don’t lure anyone, at least a million bang on ads

[alexmach]

Do you think that in my post only 1 point is higher?

And now everything is much simpler - pay a normal salary and on time and the welders themselves will come to you and find housing themselves

And if everything is so simple, then why the hell are there still problems with the welders?

[bald]

An alternative to the defense industry of serious enterprises is by no means necessary. For obvious reasons, on the one hand, and how, you put it: “Why will they be used there?” On the other. For a long time everything has been invented and works (medicine, construction, etc.)

[Homo]

An alternative to the defense industry of serious enterprises is by no means necessary.

Do you seriously think so? Can you justify? Try it and I will give you 1000 and 1 justifications for the possibility of such a service.

[alexmach]

Well, I'll try.

Who do you plan to send to these enterprises for alternative service?
- 18 year old boys who know nothing? And what will they do there? Defense factories lacking handymen? There is no one to shop there? I strongly doubt it, I believe that qualified personnel are needed there.

“Will you teach them locally?” Do you know how? Spend half a year of the required one and a half on training, which, incidentally, will not be completely free for a training organization.

- And what motivation will they have for study and work? Serve the motherland? Sorry, but being a patriot can serve an urgent service.

Curiously, do you all serve in Russia now? if everything - in principle, there is some sense. If only part - then this is nonsense.

[delfinN]

So let the military representative work out the battalion commander, so that the service does not seem to honey (to him).

[alexmach]

Yeah, but who will do the work of the military representative?

[Homo]

Here I met on duty with alternatives - they don’t know how to keep a broom ...

What do you mean by the word "alternative"? Alternative service is not only "give, hold, bring". Programmers, electronics engineers and translators can also be "alternatives". And many students will go to such an alternative service.

[Barakuda]

Well, you had to put your hands in. Hard. Commander Are you, or what?

[Delink]

keys to submit!

[Skif83]

Those. they can’t be trusted with a broom, but defense objects with their structure can be ?!
I would only entrust the toilets to clean the toilets to the one who "mows" the army, and even then not everywhere ...

[APASUS]

Quote: Vladimir 38

And it is right! Well done!

What good fellows?
We have been living in capitalism for a long time and we don’t need to keep anyone. Why attract alternative agents?
Everything is quite simple, you have to pay a real salary and people will come, and so again, the methods of the communist past, you still organize chemistry at the enterprise!

[Vladimir 38]

If you had lived in capitalism for a long time, then the costs of medicine, education, etc., were not much higher than they were now. I understand that now you will begin to talk about already paid medicine, education. But in the same USA, people take loans that they give their whole lives to get an education. And about medicine in general, in the USA, if you are not working or your employer is not able to pay insurance, then there is no medicine for you.
In the beginning, as usual, bring the gift and do not interfere, then the gifted are selected from the gifted and entrusted with more responsible work. At the same time, many of them will decide on further work at this enterprise and will study, create families and inhabit our vast homeland. In my opinion - a great initiative.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: Vladimir 38

If you had lived in capitalism for a long time, then the costs of medicine, education, etc., were not much higher than they were now

A very dubious statement.
Yesterday I was impressed by the film about cancer on TV. Showed state clinic in Israel. How old is Israel? And how many discoveries have they made and created unique drugs that save people from various diseases? In the state hospital there is an entertainment center, shops, privacy rooms for patients .... In the hospital, dozens of volunteers work at their own expense, even there is a clown. Volunteer. Patients are not left alone with an illness. Volunteer at any hospital we have. In the best case, they will twirl a finger at the temple and "chase". I envy for the good.

[hirurg]

HAHA !!!
We have Pinocchio !!!!
And what do they have? pinocchio.

[hirurg]

I did not understand how the comment on the other article ended up here.
I apologize to the audience

[EvgNik]

In my opinion a good solution. Let's see what the colleagues from the Far East will say.

[Mountain shooter]

Working at defense enterprises in Russia is, IMHO, should be a PRIVILEGE, not an obligation. The Komsomol is no longer there, it is necessary to attract to work at such remote enterprises with working conditions and decent wages. Coercion is dangerous, they can "out of malice" and some kind of sabotage ...

[Danil Laryon]

all the same, people both migrated from the Far East and migrate so that people do not migrate all the time, you need to lower taxes there and give other nishtyaks, and then in Moscow, and then people live more than there

[corporal]

Victim of the exam?

[Muvka]

Rather, a victim of parents indifferent to their child.

[Danil Laryon]

what is the Unified State Examination, I just wrote that no matter how many people you hold, he still blasts from the far east, everyone dies out to the center, especially Moscow doesn’t leave any help
I don’t care what it just becomes without crowded

[sabakina]

Generally "migration". Yes, I can give a box of commas as well.

[Danil Laryon]

I know perfectly well that I write with errors, I'm just in a hurry

[dmi.pris1]

Where are you in a hurry? Think over the thought and write without errors. Do not disgrace, distorting the Russian language.

[EvgNik]

sabakina

Actually "migration". Yes, I can also give a box of commas.

In addition to this: in some places it is necessary to put points, some words are capitalized.
The so-called telegraph style. Only the telegraph has long been gone. In short, quiet horror.

[Danil Laryon]

I ask you to stop discussing my mistakes. I just don’t like that the population of the Far East is declining and the government is not really giving any help. Although the salaries were raised there

[vovanpain]

Quote: Danil Larionov

all the same, people both migrated from the Far East and migrate so that people do not migrate all the time, you need to lower taxes there and give other nishtyaks, and then in Moscow, and then people live more than there

Danil no offense. Perhaps you wanted to write like that - All the same, the people migrate from the Far East and migrate. So that people do not migrate, you just need to reduce taxes there and give other nishtyaks, otherwise Moscow lives more than there ( meaning the Far East) Regards Just a colleague, do not rush.

[Danil Laryon]

Yes you are right ......................

[Zomanus]

So that's great. If you also make a normal social for young people,
so it will be great.

[silverwolf88]

this is probably true for young professionals ... BUT just not for refuseniks / alternativeists ...

[corporal]

And all this will turn into a regular serving of duty, if only time passes. Oh, they will work there.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: lexseyOGK

They didn’t try to pay salaries so that people wouldn’t move out of here? Or the Nordic pay all the same to the state and not to enterprises. And then it turns out the salary is in the west (with the north) and the prices and communal services are higher

What kind of West are you talking about? Oh, about the salary to the point!
“For example, according to Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the next year or two will appear before 1,8 thousand new jobs. It is clear that it is better to retain people than to attract. Each person involved costs the state an average of up to 500 thousand rubles. At the same time, it is usually worth retaining other money, alternative military service is a powerful tool for retaining just the able-bodied population, youth, ”the agency head added.
Maybe some of the alternatives will stay. If there is acceptable housing and a decent salary. I doubt it. It seems that they are trying to apply the experience of distribution after college or "jackets" in the army in the USSR. But, they were people with education, and then .... It will turn out "as always".
"... on average up to 500 thousand rubles." How much does an apartment in Komsomolsk cost? Yesterday I watched a documentary about cancer. Heavy film. It is worth seeing it, and the doctors are forced to force. One of the points. Raising orphans under 18 costs the state unimaginable sums (I had no idea what), but it does not want to spend on effective treatment of dying mothers. Sawing and manilovism in one glass with alternatives.

[lexseyOGK]

The West is the left side of the country.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: lexseyOGK

West is left side of the country.

Strong!
I report that you are mistaken, in Ryazan they do not exactly row money with a shovel, as, indeed, in Bryansk and Kostroma and other "left" cities. I took an interest in electricity: Komsomolsk-on-Amure-kvt-3.87, Ryazan-kvt-4.03.

[23424636]

what is one and a half thousand places - pure fake and playing to the public in Novorossia, graduates of technical universities, technicians to work at Akhmetov's enterprises, and this is almost half of the economy of the republic, a ban on admission. Their diplomas DN R-ovsky do not suit the Ukrainian oligarch ... buyers to Donetsk and other cities and invited young graduates to work for the good of Russia. I am sure the "full clip" will fill. wishing Here salaries minuscule 7 thousand rubles a drifter in the mine. And as for the alternative, if he does not want to join the troops, it means that he cannot be taken into the defense industry either.

[soaring]

23424636

And as for the alternative, if you don’t want to join the troops, you can’t take it to the defense industry either.

Here in this phrase is the whole answer to all attempts to replace aging specialists.
To take such young animals to the defense industry plants is simply dangerous !!!! This is not to play Pokemon and not a beer in the evenings to indulge with friends in a public garden. Another stupidity of our leadership!

[mr.redpartizan]

For TALENTED youth, work in the military-industrial complex can be a ticket to the great future. The main thing is to create jobs with decent working conditions and good salary. An alternative should only be given to people with higher and secondary technical education who have achieved high academic results. The state is obliged to make the work in the military-industrial complex prestigious, while making high demands on defense workers.

[Hapfri]

The state is obliged to make the work in the military-industrial complex prestigious, while making high demands on defense workers.

Put a hundred and fifty graduates to the graduate, two hundred experienced ones, and this will be your prestigious job. Instead of one dumb football player, you can hire fifty experienced engineers
Currently, the initial bet is 10. Well, and a bonus. But the prize is not always.

[your1970]

there is a nuance, the alternative is NOT ONLY for university graduates, but even simple boobies after school

[soaring]

I agree! Only first, these young people need to be taught precisely this specialty, which is so lacking, and then they should be attracted by jobs with good wages, etc. And to solve with one-time "sets" is simply "RUSSIAN ROULETTE" in the military.
Try to drag a talented Moscow youth to the Far East !? Either the salary must be frenzied and all the other privileges, or he simply won't leave his warm places. You have to be realistic! And hope for refuseniks is the collapse of the military-industrial complex, no less !!! Who will buy the equipment assembled by some unknown "smart guy".!?
In my opinion, it is necessary to raise the prestige of secondary specialized education and workers, and not to produce managers and lawyers who refuse to serve in the army ... Sorry, it may be wrong in something, it’s simply burnt!

[Alexander S.]

In general, I would cancel this alternative. And what does it mean? religion does not allow the homeland to protect? why then? especially in secret defense enterprises?

[Lekov L]

Relatively reasonable.
If it concerns, for example, graduates of technical educational institutions who, instead of a year in the army, are ready to work out three years in production according to their profile. (The reasons may be just family in the literal sense - for example, a small child and the lack of housing)
Those. This is a form of distribution by specialty
Accommodation - a room in a family dormitory - five years of working out and so on with nuances.
By the way, it may turn out well, only for managers of enterprises should attend to infrastructure.
Sincerely ...

[atalef]

Quote: Mozart

Oh, Japanese mom ... Also chtol jerk to the Far East?

Mikhan, you already didn’t tear to anything - to New Russia, to Syria, the States (to bring down Obama), now to the Far East.
Have you torn your pants yet? Or just a sofa

[Hapfri]

Services can easily be avoided. It’s enough not to go to the draft board. I don’t know who the alternatives go when you can just get a bartender at a bar, a taxi driver, an elite housing broker ... he rented a hut in the next street - look for it - fistula. ... and the money is not an example more than in any service, especially engineering. Stillborn idea.
When Zhirinovsky yells that the country needs teachers, doctors and engineers, he means that all these personalities will work for a penny.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: Hupfri

Services can easily be avoided. It’s enough not to go to the draft board.

This only speaks of the effectiveness of the state apparatus and the desire to work in this direction.

[your1970]

"Service can be easily avoided. It is enough not to go to the military registration and enlistment office."

"This only speaks of the effectiveness of the state apparatus and the desire to work in this direction.."

This suggests that the times of the USSR -when you NEVER sit down without a residence permit, HAVE LONGLY BEEN ....
I can't catch people - so that they formalize their own land near the house, and you mean the conscripts ... You just stupidly do not receive letters - not a "refusal", but "at the expiration of the storage period" and any protocol / summons go to the trash for a citizen " not notified "and the court says," Go, dear comrade state control body, by the forest "- with all the relative loyalty of the court ...
Do not believe me? Look at how many fines hang from malicious traffic violators - for 200-300 pcs .......

[Vladimir61]

Among the "evaders" from the service there may be many who for foreign intelligence services will become a potential hen capable of laying the golden eggs!

[Voyager]

Quote: cniza

If you call after the institutes is a very correct decision, you can get a good staff potential.

To immediately after graduation and without practice to lose a good half of knowledge?

[EvgNik]

Voyager

To immediately after graduation and without practice to lose a good half of knowledge?

If, after graduating from an institute, a person will work at the enterprise and in profile, then how will he lose knowledge? Will he not dig the earth? Just a good practice, without which many enterprises simply do not accept.

[Amurets]

Just a good practice, without which many enterprises simply do not accept.

Here I agree completely! With the training of personnel, as now, this is a good practice. Here, where I worked, two years of practical work experience is obligatory if you did not earn it while working on summer holidays. And I know those who have earned seniority on holidays since they were 16 years old while studying at educational institutions, and while studying, they worked part-time, at enterprises, earning not only experience but also acquiring labor skills. First of all, it depends on the management of the enterprise. What about an alternative service? I don’t know if she will help?

[your1970]

EvgNik
"If, after graduating from the institute, a person will work at the enterprise and in the profile," - you have seen many alternative workers from institutes in the profile ????????????
There, a hodgepodge including an incomplete school will be-which the earth is not a fact that it will be possible to entrust the earth to dig ...

[silverwolf88]

Strange decision ...
People who do not want to serve the interests of the MOTHERLAND in the defense industry are not needed ... from the word ABSOLUTELY ...
The alternative is two years (yes, the period should be longer than with ordinary conscription service), for example, on the construction of roads of federal significance in conditions of strict discipline (you might think of something else ... cleaning rivers and reservoirs ... putting the forest in order - cleaning and planting seedlings ...) ... the work should be quite heavy and underpaid ... The alternative should not look attractive compared to the regular conscription service ...

[silverwolf88]

Yes, I completely forgot to mention ... none of the alternative people ... should ever (i.e. for life) be at the State Service (exception health indicators) ...

[Thirteenth]

Yes, I completely forgot to mention ... none of the alternatives ... should never (i.e. for life) be at the State Service

Stupidity of pure water! Why should an "alternate" suddenly be deprived of the right to state. service? Do people undergo alternative service break the law? No, they don't! Alternative service is a legal opportunity to replace conscript military service for citizens of the Russian Federation. The right to alternative service is guaranteed by the Constitution and is regulated by Federal Law No. 113-FZ of June 25.06.2002, XNUMX "On Alternative Civil Service".
I believe that losing the right to work for state. service should citizens disengaging from military or alternative service without legal grounds.

[pts-m]

Each one thinks in his own way, and let the alternative person think with his own head, and not with the advice of the participants in the discussions at the VO. It’s good to argue when you are fifty dollars and retired, and young people don’t have such experience and probably hopes for a good uncle who will help them get used to the new workplace.

[Isstvan]

Pay a normal salary, enough specialists no longer know how to grab more!

[Mcarrow]

Quote: Monos

In fact, the Far East will have a kind of "reservation". Not really sure if this is correct.

A normal decision in the late 50s to raise the fishing industry who went to sea for fishermen in the army did not serve, and even now, after the end of the VSIG habzayki, they do not go to the army to work on vessels of the auxiliary fleet.

[rruvim]

Will they give a hectare of land?

[Danil Laryon]

dmi.pris,
I apologize to a colleague.

[weksha50]

I looked through most of the comments ... Members of the forum are outraged ... Probably, I, too ...

The idea itself is not bad, and it concerns not only the Far East ... Only here we need to talk not about "alternative" service (alternative workers at a defense enterprise are 100% saboteurs, at least due to some kind of coercion inherent here, and let them into the OPK - a mortal sin for the one who takes this decision) ...
But to introduce something into the legislation on the introduction of "armor" from service in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation to a 30-year period for boys, yesterday's schoolchildren who came to work at this enterprise, as well as graduates of secondary and higher professional institutions - it would be the very thing ...
But after reaching 30 years, a person, having gained experience and having mastered his specialty, will think 100 times before leaving the enterprise ...
There is such a legislative concept: public-private partnership (PPP) ...
So let the state create a reservation for such workers and provide the defense industry enterprises with orders, and the enterprises raise specialists and create all the necessary conditions for them ...
And this should apply not only to enterprises of the military-industrial complex-defense industry of the Far East, but also to the whole country ...

And alternative agents at the enterprises of the defense industry complex can’t do anything even as janitors ... There will only be harm from them ... Let them go to hospitals to serve patients as nurses ...

[lopvlad]

Quote: Finches

alternative workers - they don’t know how to keep a broom, but here a defense enterprise

now that the conscripts that the alternative people are not just keeping a broom, but are generally incapable of any work.
As for the idea, a person after school without knowledge does not need anyone who needs it, and the hope of the defense industry to recruit alternative workers for the shitty paid labor of laborers is a bummer because there will be few people in the army to be a laborer for 4 years instead of one year.
If you need specialists for the defense industry, first you need to train them, and for the diploma in the form of a load, you must practice it after training for 5 years at this enterprise.

[Thirteenth]

now that the conscripts that the alternative people are not just keeping a broom, but are generally incapable of any work.

I won’t tell you about the alternatives, but to the conscript, why should he .. hold the broom? Let the machine gun hold on tight and shoot it better and further down the list ... The broom should be kept by the janitor, and the soldier must be able to handle his weapons!
zadolbalo this shovel "square kataem we wear round"!
As it stood as an assistant on duty in the regiment. I was not lucky to catch the eye of the regiment commander. And the time was deep autumn, late October - November. The bulk of the leaves from the trees flew away, but the most stubborn leaves continued to stubbornly sway in the wind, not wanting to fall on the mortal earth. And so this miracle in colonel's shoulder straps yells to me at the top of my lungs - "Hey you d..b your mother, etc., well nah here quickly a platoon of beavers with brooms and shovels knock down the remaining leaves from the trees, they say the picture of uniformity is spoiled" ... They went to the army and go to wave brooms? Yes, tries such a service!

[DmitryK]

On the one hand, the Middle Ages was some kind of ascribed peasants among the Demidovs, and on the other hand, an interesting option. But in any case, manual unsystematic management of the country ....

[excomandante]

For the first time I meet on the tops of the adept of the sect of the Balkaev)

[fa2998]

Quote: soaring

how much time will it take to make at least some craftsman out of such a sweeper? A year is not enough for sure, then the point?

Another "shop" for thieves. Perhaps (due to our corruption), the "alternative worker" will be listed at the enterprise, and they will receive a pay for him, but they will not enter through the checkpoint! If you want to work in the defense industry (there are now high salaries) serve in the army, get a specialty and go to work. Like all normal people!

[excomandante]

SRTS P-15, What does the monastery have to do with it? Orthodox religion allows it to both serve in the army and fight. and die for the motherland. Religious alternatives are sectarians who are. to hell with monasteries ?!

[Barakuda]

I would love to. I would teach young people. Only Ukrainian passport interferes, and bureaucrats with the FMS.

[alexmach]

Cat Man Null,

under the Union there were words such as "distribution" and "young specialist"

Well, we are all from there.

With the union there were a lot of things. And the article for parasitism, and guaranteed employment, and approximately the same salaries, and labor propaganda, and interethnic friendship ..

[Voyager]

Quote: EvgNik

If, after graduating from an institute, a person will work at the enterprise and in profile, then how will he lose knowledge? Will he not dig the earth? Just a good practice, without which many enterprises simply do not accept.

I agree with you, but here are the keywords "if" and "by profile", which unfortunately cause great doubts. I can understand if we're talking about techie graduates, but what about others? No, there are certainly individuals today who, like in Soviet times, first defended their Motherland in the war, then became actors, directors, cameramen and writers. But today there will be a minority of those who want to go to an enterprise straight from some historical one, and rightfully so. People go to study for a specific profession because (many) want it and can be of greater value in their own business. Besides, admitting people far from all this to such enterprises ... this is not correct.

[weksha50]

alexmach,
"alexmach Yesterday, 21:11 ↑
George, here to your words, there is no alternative. Regards.

"Yeah, just without comment ... minus to you and George"....

It seems that during the transition to the new design of the VO theme and the removal of the "minuses", they agreed that the minus is justified ...

So I personally - did not understand how your minus is justified ...
After all, everyone has their own opinion ... So justify your view on the solution to this problem ...

[alexmach]

Please justify.
Here's exactly what I did not like:

PS And let this "reservation" exist for the entire conscription age (up to 27 years) ... Left the factory earlier - forward, to the troops, and necessarily - to the motorized rifle, so that he could run, crawl, and dig to his best.

George, here to your words, there is no alternative. Regards.

My opinion is complete nonsense. Who will go to work at these defense plants under such conditions? This essentially means making a commitment to work there until the end of the draft age. Well, an 18-year-old guy will go there knowing that in the next 8-9 years he will not get anywhere from this plant, and if he tries, then

forward, to the troops, and necessarily - to the motorized rifle, so that he ran, crawled, dug in all

And why is he so happy?

In addition, the presence of an administrative way of retaining personnel at the plant eliminates the need for economic incentives ... If a person does not leave due to penalties, then he can not raise his salary, regardless of qualification. And note, your George proposes to implement this system for those who already work there ... That's really really gratitude from the homeland. My opinion is that the nonsense is simply not thought out, and this cannot be done, sorry for the harshness. Here is the minus for this.

Such a system puts the employee in a curled position and limits his constitutional freedoms.

A system with alternatives would make sense if everyone would serve as one, as in Soviet times or as it happens in Israel. This would put all citizens of military age in the same conditions and give them the same opportunities. That's just called up for service, now not all. Thus, those who somehow avoid the call have an advantage in life compared to those who are called (they are exploited compared to non-employees).

How to solve personnel problems for defense enterprises? This, sorry, I don’t know. It has been written more than once in this discussion that the problem is complex related to the stratification of society and the decline in the prestige of working professions, and indeed labor as such.

[your1970]

alexmach,
the lack of a NORMAL salary + embedded in the brains of young people "I'd rather sit in Moscow for 1200 shift in security than at a factory I struggle / struggle for the same salary" + general unpopularity of productive labor ("At the factory ??? !!! !! ") + lack of vertical elevators for those who still work at the plant ....
It’s easier to manage ....