Military Review

Let's talk about the Ukrainian offenses, dear Retvizan?

A small digression. Well, now I can say that the abolition of the minuses is bearing fruit. At least, a person who has a different opinion than the majority can express it without fear of consequences. And this is a plus.

Another thing is that this opinion, even if it is reasonable and calmly expressed, requires some kind of reaction. So I decided to sort through the bones of the question that our reader Retvizan put on the table. Namely offenses inflicted by Russia Ukraine.

So let's go. I liked Retvizan’s comment on our parade article. At least, it became clear from him that we were on opposite sides of the barricade. But with a smart enemy and fight nice.

“An article for us, Ukrainians. But not a single Ukrainian unsubscribed. Because there were no active“ patriots ”here. They would have been banned right away (they would not have survived the millions of offensive names of Ukraine and Ukrainians). They will unsubscribe. They have a general party policy of their own. Well, or Russian. "

There are plenty of "active patriots" here. But all were sawed back on the "Censor" splashing saliva and yelling there. Even, perhaps, I am a little proud that I have more than fifty such scandals on my account. Here is a Russian monastery, and there is nothing to shout at it like on the Maidan. Not to create.

Who are the "tame Ukrainians", I honestly do not understand. I guess, of course, that those who do not fall into the righteous ecstasy of the cry "Glory to Ukraine!" But, sorry, you have a lot of people out there today. "Youtube" look about Poroshenko's visit to Mariupol. I watched. Funny. Except Poroshenko, nobody shouted.

Now I communicate a lot with Ukrainians on the Internet. Mariupol, Kiev, Nikolaev, Khmelnitsky, Odessa. I play in the Ukrainian clan, sinful. It is not customary to talk about politics, but for life - just go. And in general, I understand where they look today.

Indeed, the general policy of the party has basically its own - to survive. And I do not blame any of my interlocutors. Even more than that, sincerely sympathize.

"In fact, the Russian Federation (although it’s about the Russians themselves) you are not the Ukrainians. And the Russians are the most naked. Those who call themselves Ukrainians or Russian in general. And the Crimea and the Voentorg in the east.
It is with you that the Russians of Ukraine and the Ukrainians and Russians are fighting in essence. Zapadentsy not fight with you and will not. They have neither experience nor the possibility of even anger they have some kind of incomprehensible to us. We even have a reason (the territorial integrity of our country).
Therefore, we will not give up attempts to return everything. Revanchism, militarization, any actions that can help us. "
(Without editing. - Ed.).

I, with your permission, begin with the end of the quote. Here one phrase puts everything in its place. Do not leave attempts to return everything back? Funny ... and explains a lot.

When Russia did not give up attempts to return Ukraine, which was rapidly rushing towards Europe, we also took any actions that could help you. Discounts for gas, for oil. Credits. Preferential trading mode. Benefits for industrial enterprises of Ukraine in the Russian market. Frank lobbying of Ukrainian manufacturers. Examples? Yes, as many as you like.

I won’t even fly far, take a recent example with An-148. Our collectors and testers at VASO were categorical in their time: the bastard would not fly. And I would not really take off, if it were not for the general who finished the glider with the hands of VASO specialists. After that, this aero monster began to resemble a plane. And do not talk about how cool the tests were in Ukraine. In Ukraine, and psevdokater "Gyurza-M" was tested. Only for some reason the sailors began to disown themselves from this coffin.

And we, by the way, disown all who originally wanted to buy it. Because the airframe sawed over turned into a figure + 17-20% of the originally declared value. It is easy to see who is operating the aircraft today. Only those who can afford it. MO, MES, FSB, special squad "Russia". That is, those who do not particularly consider money, and to whom it can be imposed. the others refused in horror.

And on VASO, by the way, it was almost a holiday when they got rid of this volatile hemorrhoids. Drank and went to rivet and cook "Elah." And there are dozens of such examples.

But back to Ukraine. I have described the Russian ways of “getting everything back”. And what ways do you have, dear Retvizan? Revanchism and militarization will be left alone. I'll go over them separately. But "for the rest" right now.

We, Russia, when we wanted to return, tried to do the best, actually buy. Buy loyalty and understanding. And you?

Of course, the economic, energy and water blockade of the Crimea is the best way, of course, from your point of view. Yes, and the "train of friendship," and the attacks. Here you need to say thanks for the Crimea. Your openly misanthropic and flawed from the point of view of a normal person actions led to the fact that Crimea will never be yours. Are you able to understand the word "never"? If not, it's time to begin to understand.

Once again, just in case, I will repeat: NEVER THE CRIMEA WILL BECOME YOUR. And you have made every effort for this. Thank.

But even if suddenly something happens, and you are in luck, then in any case, all that is shining for you is another war in the image and likeness of Donbass. Only worse, because in the Crimea they already understand perfectly well that Russia is not Ukraine. And you just have to destroy there all those who disagree with this interpretation of the issue. That is, the majority. What, in fact, planned to do.

From here we smoothly go to the Donbas. What do we have there? All the same. Instead of trying to buy, if not buy, the population, so that it starts looking towards the former Motherland, what are you doing? Correctly, systematically destroy and spread rot. Shelling, blockade, fighting. Standard set. For more simply can not. For more you need to be able to think, but with this definitely strained.

So forgive me, your Donbass will never be yours again. Buy guts with giblets, if you find yourself capable of it? Well, the people there are not the first time to get barrels and ammunition for them and insist on their own. They know how to practice.

Speak, are Russian Ukrainians fighting with us? And with you, I'm sorry, who is fighting? Ukrainians of Russia or what?

"As for the parade, it was needed only for the spirit. The fact that we have equipment is outdated but reliable, we are aware. But people are fighting. Technique is just a tool." (Without editing.)

Yes, we also know. And what your technique looks like to me, the guys from the Ghost told about the state of their Debaltsev trophies, and they can also know how to fight with you. Ilovaisk and Debaltseve all showed. Let's just not talk about ours tank divisions say you never found them. But no, and no conversation.

But even if hypothetically imagined that the Russian army acted under Debaltseve, then forgive me, why did you raise this question at all? With the spirit, speak and the idea of ​​fighting? Yes, cool you are fighting, nothing to say. It seems that your entire Battle Statute consists of two chapters: the destruction of the civilian population by artillery bombardment and total and fast flight.

Could be about Aviation say, but it’s over with you. Yes, you can blame it. Threw up modern MANPADS and your lithaki flew off. But what did you want after Donetsk? They say that our generals broke pens, putting signatures on permits for the transfer of "Eagles". Watching the video how your ex-gallant aviation kills women and children.

Well, how your "tools" work, we also saw enough and had heard a lot. Shit you have tools. To become a technique. And, let's face it. God forbid or Putin, that your glorious Ukrainian Armed Forces, armed with the spirit, the idea and the "new" technology, will have to face our current army. This will be a mega challenge. Feil world scale. Well, really. On reactive dump will.

Your this militarization by the method of “trishkin caftan” is laughter. Your "cyborg" is not able to defeat the miners and drivers of garbage trucks, sat down at the levers of tanks (no joke, in the "Ghost" one former tank driver did exactly that and trained three colleagues). Your glorious surviving "Points U" against "Iskander"? T-64 vs. T-90 or T-72BM3? Grads vs. Tornado? Oh, about the aircraft just silent. We have so many new products in the air defense system, which is a pity that you do not have aviation. About EW also silent.

Alas, but all that your APU can do is cowardly firing at the peaceful neighborhoods of Donetsk and Lugansk who have not surrendered. And no spirit, no idea will help them. Yes, and the spirit, I'm sorry, you have that ... with a dear.

“The idea is fighting. But the Russian Federation took and instead of loyal Ukrainians to keep in loyalty - it took and turned into its enemies (without the propaganda of Ukraine). This is a misfortune for all (Slavs).
And now enmity. Long I do not know how to end. But 2, the largest Slavic countries of the USSR, are now enemies. And not the fault of one of Ukraine. Wines are mutual.
You touched us hard. A novel is a long time. "
(Without editing.)

You, Retvizan, apparently work somewhere in Kiev. Like this our, Okrugora Tarakan. But sometimes it is ridiculous to read, I am happy to edit his works and translate them into literary Russian. He is funny and frank in his own way. Unlike you. From you, I'm sorry, for a mile away it smells of official Kiev. I think that I'm not so far from the truth.

If I did not communicate with ordinary people in Ukraine, maybe I would have thought so. But, alas, I communicate. And they are not enemies of me. And Ukraine is not an enemy either to me or to the majority of Russians. We are smarter, we can afford the luxury of understanding current processes.

Ukraine is not our enemy. Our enemies are the internationally frankly pro-fascist clique that seized power there. Outgoing pus in our direction, because the twenty-five year old freebie at the expense of Russia is over. And in Europe did not take. Because Russia just took a bit of her (Crimea) and when the hell give back.

But sorry, let's face it. All that we needed in Crimea was our military ports and bases. Built, I note, not the Ukrainians. They built the whole of the USSR. By the way, as well as the sold "Mriya". And for our fleet the Russian authorities went to all that is possible. Energy discounts? Nate. Loans? Excuse me Orders for Ukrainian plants to the detriment of their own? Get it.

But you just got bold and went too far in your lawlessness. Here and defaults, and outright theft of the same gas from the Europeans. Even if the Crimeans had not taken the peninsula to Russia, it would probably have to be overcome by force. But, apparently, your ideas and the spirit of the Crimean people did not like it. Get it and sign it.

And then. Dear Retvizan, you speak so well of some two Slavic countries. What are you talking about? Oh, about Ukraine and Russia? Good. But let me refresh you slightly. And not in the Ukrainian textbook stories.

There was no Ukraine until the end of 1919. Forgot? There were originally Russian lands inhabited by the so-called Little Russians and Russians. But Ukraine was not. There were frontier Gopniki, from time to time fallen into the legs of the Russian tsars and begging for bread, weapons and patronage. And they got it. And Khmelnitsky from Alexei Mikhailovich received, and Zaporozhian Cossacks from Catherine the Great had.

And the lands on which gopnichalo Cossacks were either Polish or Russian. Legally. That is why the hetman Khmelnitsky not Ukraine swore, and very much even Poland. Where he entered the Seimas, and had awards from the King of Poland. And do not pinch him to the Poles one place on a personal plane, it is not known yet how everything would turn out there. But turned into an oath of Russia. Doesn't this remind you of anything? And I have historical analogies with the present day, which are completely for themselves.

Historical fact: 8 in January 1654 was collected in Pereyaslavl, where after the speech of Khmelnitsky, who indicated the need for Ukraine to choose one of the four sovereigns: the Sultan of Turkey, the Crimean Khan, the King of Poland or the Tsar of Moscow, and submit to his citizenship, people he unanimously cried out: "We will wave under the tsar of Moscow, the Orthodox."

Surrender to the Tsar of Moscow for citizenship ... We are about independent Ukraine, right?

Well, at least according to the principles of Khmelnitsky, Ukrainian rulers are trying to act today. In a sense, surrender to someone. At least someone. But nobody takes it. And of course, Russia is to blame for this. Which simply ceased to feed in the previous volumes. But excuse me, in 1991, we had a good run with the USSR in Ukraine. And, if the ability to use everything grabbed, then you would live in clover. An, did not work. Is Russia also to blame?

So let's, dear Retvizan, call things by their proper names. There is absolutely propaganda not in the business here. And the idea has nothing to do with it. And there is no war on our side. This is all kolobrodit in your heads formatted Maidan. This is for the official Kiev, we are enemies. Well, maybe for you, if you have something to do with it. Evidence, of course, no, well, okay.

And Russia is not the enemy of Ukraine. We just have our way. Without looking back now on the neighbors. That you blame us for everything. You enter any embargo. And what are we? And we are nothing. Our caravan is coming. My darling.

And, pay attention, sometimes the Internet, and find at least one politician who would say that Russia is at war with Ukraine or Ukraine is our enemy. That policy, the rank of your ministers at least. Why, there, from the president, this is erupted once a week. What about us? And everything is fine with us.

There are neighbors, sick slightly on the head. Nothing, we are Russian, patient. Let us wait, suddenly feel better.

And by the way, I do not think that this is all for a long time. A couple of years still - and Khan will be your junta. People simply "democratic peremog" will not survive.

Last thing. About the enemies for me personally. I like Ukraine as there is no enemy. To me, normal people in Ukraine are not enemies. I even have friends there. Russians, Poles, one Jew. For some reason, nobody calls himself a Ukrainian.

I am enemies of the Nazis who seized power in Kiev. By the way, for some reason, the majority of them have Ukrainian origin under a huge question. As well as citizenship. So, what kind of Ukrainians are these Valtsmans, Terchers, Firtashi and other Groismans and Avakovs with Saakashvili - this is another question of the type of minced meat.

If these are Ukrainians, then I’m definitely a Hindu.

And everyone who supports this international gathering of frankly fascist persuasion is also my enemy. Accordingly, you, dear Retvizan, as a friend, I also do not consider. But considering that you are quite reasoned and cultural, unlike many of your compatriots who have been cut out from this site, I would like to discuss with you. Even on the air, it’s good that we will soon realize this opportunity on YouTube.

We have a crisis here with Turkish goods, so I will not throw a glove, but I plowed something in your direction, we will assume. Sincerely.

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  1. Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 2 September 2016 06: 41
    Yeah, in a word ... and this one, how is it ... retweeted? .... but think in vain? Especially for people like this pepper: That people, I repeat the people who do not remember their history, are DOOMED to repeat it. This time. Secondly, a people who mock their own language have no future. Thirdly, when you learn in YOURSELF, I repeat YOUR misfortunes to blame only ourselves and not Uncle Petya, Aunt Motya, or if there is a fellow Li-Chi-ching, then something may change in your life. And to cry and blame everything in this district, this trait is present exclusively among the comrades of the country you represent .... and for life. And finally, why is this candelabrum just waking up now, and not in 2014, say?
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 2 September 2016 07: 00
      retvisan? .... but to think stupid well, no way?
      Go to his profile, and go over all the comments of Retwisan - the man is clearly not stupid. Even very clearly. And he clearly distinguishes flies from cutlets, and he is also dissatisfied with the authorities in Ukraine. But for the power it offends him.
      So do not chop off the shoulder. Yes, and I would also advise Roma. hi
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 2 September 2016 07: 23
        The words about the repetition of history are beautiful, but I think that since the number of this people is decreasing, will soon tend to 0, then this story will not have time to repeat itself. It was the Soviet government that created such a nation. And like all other Soviet legacy as a result of decommunization, this nation will stop its existence, will live in different countries and continue to forget what happened before.
        1. Monos
          Monos 2 September 2016 08: 14
          I will also express my opinion on the issue of relations with Ukraine and its inhabitants.
          I, like everyone, probably, have my own experience of live communication with the inhabitants of Ukraine. There are no friends among them. There are comrades, there are good comrades, but no friends. Somehow it didn't work out. So I think that we will never be either brothers or friends. Both countries and people. We can become comrades, but no friends. And there is only one reason - venality, i.e. the age-old desire of the "Ukrainians" to sell themselves at a higher price. The one who paid more will be sold. Corruption breeds betrayal, and one who is capable of betraying a Russian will never be a friend.
          And about this retweisan ... Argued, not argued - this is just a matter of logic. No more. The question of facts on which logical construction is based is fundamental. And with the facts the character has a trumpet. Neither systematic, nor authenticity. Manipulating reality, it’s not logic, it’s demagogy, in other words - fraud, verbiage.
          1. Paul zewike
            Paul zewike 2 September 2016 10: 59
            Greed and envy - this is the basis of life of a Ukrainian, and corruption is a consequence.
            1. Captain45
              Captain45 3 September 2016 16: 59
              "Greed and envy are the basis of a Ukrainian's life, and corruption is a consequence." (c) Paul Zewike
              "Remember, Sharapov, if there is a devil in the world, then this is not a goat-legged stag, but a dragon with three heads and these heads are cowardice, greed, betrayal. And if one bites a person, the rest will eat him clean!" (c) G. Zheglov Br. Vainers "Era of Mercy"
          2. Al. Peresvet
            Al. Peresvet 3 September 2016 22: 39
            Both Ukraine, ours, and Ukrainians, ours, will be part of Russia, with Russians. We will all be Orthodox in Russia, with Russian Orthodox.
            And don’t say that anymore. Because Ukraine, Ukrainians are ours. These are Russia and Russians. And a couple of foreign people-proteges are not Ukraine and Ukrainians. These rogues will be squeezed out of Ukraine and Russia.
            Traitors, and in Russia itself is. Who destroyed the USSR? What, all the traitors of Russia, the Russians in Russia itself, were removed?
          3. Milana
            Milana 4 September 2016 09: 44
            Monos, thanks for the great comment!
            So capacious - but it's all true!
          4. ver_
            ver_ 6 September 2016 14: 11
            ... "People are different in Khiva .." ..
      2. svp67
        svp67 2 September 2016 07: 28
        But for the power it offends him.

      3. Shiva83483
        Shiva83483 2 September 2016 07: 41
        I don’t want to be bragging, but back in 2013, when only the students started this booth, and friends who supported him heralded that “Yanyk” is a person with the letter “we”, atu him, atu- and when in a private conversation they were voiced clearly the regiments of the consequences of this type of "measure" -was given one answer: Russia was there, with us the gameryka and the gayrosoyuz. Nothing like we will not be, we will be like free, and YOU repeating YOU with your Russei, as you were slaves and will remain. And in general, we will be flooded with dough, that is how good we are, we are panimanim from euuropey. As they said, nu-nu, we'll have a look. Those who are smarter, saw their sight by the end of 2014, I don’t want to talk about the rest. So my friend, this boy who was hurt for the power should have become offended, and not now, when the complete "alles kaput" has come. For according to the saying: they bought horseradish, they will have to eat it ... in three throats, with a draft spoon ... And I do not want to feel sorry for him or people like him, who are smart in hindsight. Enough: you know how to crosscut, know how and do not spoil the most ...
        1. Koresh
          Koresh 2 September 2016 12: 00
          The current generation is simply lost, so they absolutely do not care about Ukraine but they hate Russia. Fight only those who lose nothing because they have no job, or just fanatics of war. And I am very offended that sometimes people insulting people in Ukraine in plain text that all fascists are there, people are lost, you are not brothers to us, etc., etc. You directly hurt these people, any argument is logical and justified without insults, a sign of knowledge (for me personally) and respect for the person with whom you have a dispute. There are a lot of different people in Ukraine, the uncertainty of tomorrow is growing every day, you don’t know if there will be a full-scale war in the east, at any moment your region can become a new center of separatism or a new coup, the next day when tariffs rise (electricity prices rose again yesterday ) or the hryvnia will break the bottom (already at the bottom, knock a little lower). But all the same, you need to lead a dispute with respect and then your interlocutor (adequate) will also talk with you, but about inadequate they will choke on saliva in this manner of communication.
          1. Tambov Wolf
            Tambov Wolf 2 September 2016 13: 02
            Why argue with people like you? You all sat at the hut and a pig, when the "Maidan" was going on, when they burned people in Odessa, when in Kharkov they voted for the corrupt Jew Kernes and his comrades, when they voted for the same Poroshenko, for the gay-European lace coward,
            and cookies from Madame Nuland, when the Russian language, which is spoken by 80% of the so-called "Ukrainians", was banned. It was scary, of course, but Donbass has risen! And no need to say that Russia went there. It's just that there are people there, not embroiderers with a piglet and a hut. Back in the early 70s of the last century, the difference between Donbass and between Kiev and Lvov was visible. Judging by service in the army. collectivists never surrendered their own. And others sold half of the regiment for a lousy stripe (self-willed, lovers of sitting after lights out, who said wrong about the officer, etc.). And the guys from Donbass never called us Muscovites, but others did this We suffered a lot, so we can do without arguing.
            1. Koresh
              Koresh 2 September 2016 16: 06
              Of course, I understand everything, but I do not belong to the Russian-speaking population, I speak Russian well, respect the people themselves and do not insult or incite ethnic hatred (there is an article in your legislation for this). I’m not from the central or eastern regions, but from Western Ukraine, and do not equal east and west, you yourself see there is a difference. And if you blame me that the yachoskranik will come out not a pleasant analogy with you, they allowed the collapse of the USSR, but I do not blame the older generation for that. I don’t want to fight what’s for some, what’s of the others, it makes no sense to go kill each other. So with respect and patience.
          2. YUG64
            YUG64 2 September 2016 16: 21
            I agree in many ways. It seems to me that on the territory of Ukraine people also not only watch TV, but also think, analyze. At least, very many ... In those days when Little Russia was part of Russia, and in Soviet times, this the earth literally gushed with talents. It was like a blessing from above ... From the Orlov brothers to Sikorsky, Kondratyuk, the Queen ... I'm not talking about thousands of lesser-known people who made their huge contribution to the empire ... By the way, these talents now the Ukronazists are trumpeting them with might and main, reckoning them behind the grave! -to the Ukrainians, although all these people were imperials to the core, including Gogol and Shevchenko ..... But now, in the years of "nezalezhnosti", who will now glorify this land ? Who will remain in history? Lyashko, Parasyuki, Timoshenko ..... Clowns and thieves ... Little Russian land without Russia, as it turns out, bears only tares .... I think ordinary people see this and draw conclusions. Therefore - let's see and wait.
      4. Aleksander
        Aleksander 2 September 2016 07: 51
        So do not chop off the shoulder. Yes, and I would also advise Roma.

        And what is Roman wrong about? In my opinion, he quite convincingly and logically proved his point of view, with which, I think, many will agree.

        Only retvizanov it will not convince, not a horse feed. I think that many who have similar relatives from the Ruins abandoned futile attempts to do this.
        Although absolutely normal Little Russians are quite enough there, among my relatives such percent 50% are Odessa residents, other 50% are Kiev residents.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 2 September 2016 08: 05
          Only retvizanov it will not convince, not a horse feed.
          Hi Sash. I’ll also tell you - go over the comments of Retwisan. A person defends his point of view very competently and adequately, and I believe that even for this he deserves respect and attention. hi
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 2 September 2016 08: 45
            "A person defends his point of view very competently and adequately, and I believe that even for this he is worthy of respect and attention."

            In the comments of Retwisan, there is an insult to the country (I need a whole branch dedicated to one forum member, I would like smile ), this is understandable when many people only write in their comments: Ukrainians grab, grab, sold their entire history, surrendered, garbage, etc. My wife says: yes, your Vladimir people did all their history that they drank tea and painted icons (from Tambov itself). smile
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 2 September 2016 09: 14
              (from Tambov herself)
              I have a couple of acquaintances from the Tambov province - those are still rogues, do not put a finger in your mouth. laughing
            2. BARKAS
              BARKAS 2 September 2016 09: 34
              “A person defends his point of view very competently and adequately, and I believe that even for this he deserves respect and attention.

              Well, when is it like that! laughing
          2. Aleksander
            Aleksander 2 September 2016 14: 28
            Hi Sash. I’ll also tell you - go over the comments of Retwisan. A man defends his point of view very competently and adequately

            Good afternoon, Igor.
            I think that Retvizan is the reincarnation of the forever banned Odessa citizen with a girl on the avatar (I don’t remember the nickname).
            During the reunification of Crimea with Russia, he ....supported himoffended only by non-returned ships. Yes
            After he wilted his business in the Crimea, he turned sharply to dill. Yes
            He loved to speak on behalf of all the inhabitants of Odessa (an unpleasant feature), who, supposedly, are all ukrostatistiki. Although here in VO there were completely different Odessa residents from Druzhina, and I have a bunch of completely different relatives there.

            For us, I think, all 2 May tragedy - terrible planned by coup wild targeted kill ukronazistami dozens (hundreds) of wonderful and wonderful people.
            And what Retvisan thinks about this crime, we do not know, despite his lengthy comments ....
          3. Jääkorppi
            Jääkorppi 3 September 2016 00: 17
            So this is an enemy, and an ideological enemy! And, looking at the lists of children killed in the Donbass, I can not treat him with attention or respect!
        2. Mikado
          Mikado 2 September 2016 12: 46
          certainly not in the horse feed. It is useless to persuade them. And about a beautiful style - the information war is going on. Especially such "savvy" and run. The question is different: I have already emphasized many times - we have a community in which everyone has been communicating for a year or two, and it is relatively overwhelmed. Should such Retvizans be allowed into it? Trying to discuss with them, we will turn the discussion into a trash heap. Ban. Simple in terms of common sense for the site and the community. with respect, hi
      5. RBLip
        RBLip 2 September 2016 11: 13
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        But for the power it offends him.
        So do not chop off the shoulder. Yes, and I would also advise Roma.

        Igor hi but as for me, so Roman poured a lot of pink water. in the case of this character, it is necessary not from the shoulder. need from a machine gun. after all, it is precisely those who are "hurt" in residential quarters from "grads" who are beating them "for a puppy. it is then, when they are taken for accessories, they, all as one, cooks and pisirchuk. These are the ones with chains and swastikas of veteran grandfathers in Kuyev and other cities of this "power" they beat on the streets. these were the ones that were burned on the "Berkut" Muidan and sent trains of friendship.
        there the novel about "good" Ukrainians and "bad" rulers of Ukraine writes. I don’t understand, who are we kidding? This is probably Poroshenko with Klitschko and Turchinov on Donbass planes bombed, buttons in tanks were pressed, people were tortured in the SBU ...
        and such are there now in the majority. overwhelming.
        and Roman is right. Russia is not an enemy of Ukraine. But Ukraine is the enemy of Russia. and this is for a long time. and I can argue now with anyone that no matter how worse things get in Ukraine. they will blame ... well everyone guessed.
      6. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 2 September 2016 20: 11
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Go to his profile, and go over all the comments of Retvisan - the man is clearly not stupid

        Today retvisan - this is yesterday crystall, which flooded from the site for Svidomo .....
        How many do not change the nickname, the banderlog still looks through ....
      7. alexej123
        alexej123 3 September 2016 20: 51
        So the point is that a smart enemy is much worse than a stupid one. I also remembered this commentary of Retwisan to which Roman wrote. This is a comment by a clever ENEMY who is hiding behind the Slavic brotherhood. Such individuals do not care about Donbass and children. They are eating only one thing - they squeezed out the Crimea like the last suckers, their thoughts. This is the role of the last suckers and haunts them
      8. Orionvit
        Orionvit 4 September 2016 15: 15
        Is he offended for the state? Fear God, what power? If some community of stunned people imagines themselves to be a "great nation", then everyone, without exception, should accept it? Kostroma also has its own dialect, and its own dialect of the Russian language, but no one talks about the "Kostroma" or "Vologda" nation. All the attributes of Ukrainian culture can be enumerated on the fingers, fat, vodka, khata mazanka, vyshyvanka and Shevchenko (who considered himself Russian). Have I forgotten anything? Refusing to be Russians, Ukrainians have abandoned a thousand-year history, and without a heroic and glorious past, there will be no future.
    2. GYGOLA
      GYGOLA 2 September 2016 10: 00
      Shiva83483 Today, 06:41

      And this is about someone Russian of Ukraine. A Ukrainian with a pro-Russian opinion. Duc is true. It's just that the whole truth is on the side of Russia. We do not take deceitful positions, and people are reaching out: Ukrainians, Syrians, even Turks have recently reached out. in Ukraine was set with the aim of observing the "necessary" situation, the course of other people's interests. The interests of Ukraine, as a state, of the people are not included there, will never enter. Pensioners, working, schoolchildren were robbed. The current government does not need Crimea. 2000000 Russian population). This is just an excuse to point the finger at the aggressor: “he took it.” This government does not need Donbass either. They do not need anything. They follow the instructions, the right course and look forward to new instructions. And help simple Ukrainians, no one can, except themselves, through violence, blood, revolution ...
    3. Mahmut
      Mahmut 2 September 2016 20: 36
      I like to read articles written emotionally, sincerely, with all my heart and without pretense. More to such.
  2. DikRoss
    DikRoss 2 September 2016 06: 41
    Donbass is fighting for the unity of the state and nation. And Svidomo Ukrainians are just notorious separatists.
  3. V.ic
    V.ic 2 September 2016 06: 54
    "Valim under the Tsar of Moscow, the Orthodox."

    Not Volim, but "Valim" - probably a play on words?
    Not at business here is absolutely propaganda. And the idea has nothing to do with it.

    That's right - nothing to do with it.
    Here is a Russian monastery

    So from the pulpit not only hallelujah sounds, but also an anathema! Therefore, the minuses have been canceled in vain!
    In general, the article was "plus". Although it would be possible to insert in a suitable place the words from the Sermon on the Mount of Jesus Christ (Russian transl.): "Do not give the holy things to the dogs and do not throw your pearls before the pigs, so that they do not trample it under their feet and, turning, do not tear you to pieces."
  4. Fitter65
    Fitter65 2 September 2016 06: 54
    Somehow I watched some kind of transmission on channel 1. There, the presenter quoted Tyagnibok's words that they say that Russia needs to demand compensation for the occupation since 1918. There, many spoke out, Ukrainian "comrades" in embroidered shirts, as it should be, let's say that the occupation was, their poor spread rot and There, in not any competition, in my opinion, the voice of Vladimir Volfovich sounded, and you need to take it more widely since 1654, when Bohdan Khmelnitsky brought you under the arm of Russia (not literally, but the meaning is that). The audience applauded very much But people in embroidered shirts did not understand the sarcasm of VVZh_they showed their faces on the screen, they were straight at a loss, and it’s true, why does Tashibok want to claim compensation since 1918, when he can try to demand pennies for a hop ...
  5. dmi.pris1
    dmi.pris1 2 September 2016 07: 23
    I'm not about Retvizan, but about you, Skomorokhov. Why are you so distressed by someone else's opinion? Why did the minuses interfere, how are they scary? And how do they threaten someone .. Fake shoulder straps are in danger? decided to comb the site according to the notions of whom you want to see personally? Because of people like you, the site turns into a "swamp". A good half of the articles about how when something Ukraine will surely be hunted, and how everything is fine with us. "or" Apostrophe "..
    1. romex1
      romex1 2 September 2016 07: 44
      there is a neighboring article wassat read. Says that we all go under moderators now and minus niiiiizya, as well as the entire response to your comment. In general, it’s only possible to fool now.
    2. novel66
      novel66 2 September 2016 09: 05
      and someone else’s opinion can be wrong, why not? if this opinion does not coincide genetically with yours. if we were taught from school that fascism is bad, and the USSR is a fraternity of peoples. and here the fascists, who do not even hide it, tell us that the Russians and Ukrainians are enemies. me here too
    3. Fitter65
      Fitter65 2 September 2016 13: 21
      And why did you get the idea that someone else’s opinion is corroborating? One expressed his opinion, the second answered him reasonably. Culturally and justifiably. Without rudeness and other vulgarities. And then they got used to their lack of culture, and not the ability to argue with an opponent in an argument, reduce to level a I'll minus you wherever I have time.
    4. commoners
      commoners 3 September 2016 08: 36
      Why did the cons stop them, why are they scary? And what are they threatening to someone with ... Fake shoulder straps are in danger?
      I completely agree. Before you look at the minuses and your heart rejoiced, someone read and appreciated your writings, let them be a minus, people disagree with you! It happens. And now solid zeros, the impression that no one read. Why then write? In general, the site really became more boring after the reorganization.
    5. alexej123
      alexej123 3 September 2016 20: 54
      Dmitry, stop it, how small. Roman hooked you, yes, I think it was not necessary to indicate nicknames, your insult says.
  6. aba
    aba 2 September 2016 07: 39
    About friends from Ukraine: I would not scratch in Ukraine under one comb. Well, with those who lived there from the very beginning this is one thing ... But what a hitch ... There is one friend who left Russia for Odessa about 8-10 years ago, I don’t remember exactly, but when I contacted her after the events in Odessa, he was so stunned when he heard that they had correctly burned, that Russia was an occupier. So, it’s not all clear, oh, it’s not unambiguous, even people who haven’t lived there for 25 years and haven’t studied there at school or in universities say such things. You can’t take a word about friendship. No matter how, let them prove it by deed. And with a tongue to grind, not toss bags!
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 2 September 2016 07: 48
      Yes, I could also give a similar example, but it is still common that Ukrainians who live here often rarely praise the Maidan, and they increasingly hate and scorn our EVERYTHING.
      And so in these 2 years I lost a family of friends. But they studied here, worked, live and work, they earn very well ..... ???????
    2. guzik007
      guzik007 2 September 2016 09: 00
      About friends from Ukraine: I would not scratch in Ukraine under one comb.
      In psychiatry, there is a term contact degradation. Those. almost all psychiatrists working with psychos for many years have as a result deviations in the psyche up to serious diseases.
      This is a trained specialist.
      What can we say about the psychology of a poor layman who is in a different environment? The roof leaves without warning the owner.
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 2 September 2016 11: 48
        guzik007 "The roof moves off without warning the owner"

        Quietly slate rustling roof goes slowly. laughing
    3. Jääkorppi
      Jääkorppi 3 September 2016 00: 21
      And when a tile is laid here or nurses work, or even worse ... So they are silent, puffed and gundos, which supposedly had nothing to do with 2014.
      1. aba
        aba 4 September 2016 13: 03
        ... and I suppose tasty buns from the aggressor do not choke and com calmly crawls into the throat to the stomach.
  7. romex1
    romex1 2 September 2016 07: 41
    no, honestly, it’s interesting to read Retvisan. although a confusion in the head, but it is clear that not a frantic Svidomo. come on, Retvisan, burn.
    1. yehat
      yehat 2 September 2016 11: 16
      it’s not even a matter of whether he is right or not.
      he even voices what generates negative emotions.
      This can be discussed or argued to the point of foam at the mouth, but somehow to settle the relationship.
      Much worse are those who hate Russians because they are Muscovites and that’s the point.
      And at the same time they are silent, they smile at your face with a shadow of superiority, but if you turn away, they will not give a damn under the door of your house. It is such a bend that was born during the Maidan.
  8. Sergeant Pank
    Sergeant Pank 2 September 2016 07: 43
    Will the opponent be given the opportunity to write an answer article?
  9. Zebus
    Zebus 2 September 2016 07: 50
    Bravo Roman !!!!
  10. zadorin1974
    zadorin1974 2 September 2016 07: 54
    The novel, even nothing to add. One insulting, they will not reach such, these, when allied with the urgent sergeants, the Communists also left.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 2 September 2016 09: 02
      Have you read the Retweens comments? I personally did not understand what it was all about, an ordinary Ukrainian, without a pan on his head.
      1. zadorin1974
        zadorin1974 2 September 2016 15: 30
        Good time, Sasha! I wrote about this, Roman replied to Retvisan (the name of the Russian battleship spoiled the radish) so that there is NOTHING to add! There is no way to add something about this Russian borderman. During the Union, they turned around for an urgent line, now for green ones raccoons. Such daughters of officers in Tyrnet are up to and more (by the way, our fellow citizens are screwing up for silver coins). Well, not for the sake of truth, this organism has appeared on VO.
  11. scaramuccio
    scaramuccio 2 September 2016 08: 05
    It has only made sense to talk about relations between Ukraine and Russia as states only since 1991, because there has never been a Ukrainian state on the territory of present-day Ukraine.
    So, the whole history of the Ukrainian state is a history of betrayal. The Ukrainian state began with betrayal (secession from the USSR was contrary to the Constitution and the results of the referendum), continued with betrayal when, receiving virtually free oil and gas in the 90s, telling everyone that Ukrainians are fraternal with the Russian people, the Ukrainian state sent mercenaries to Chechnya , squeezed out the Russian language and Russian self-consciousness from the population, and continues with betrayal now, when one part of the people of Ukraine shoots at another part.
    I don’t know how the statehood of Ukraine will end, but I think it’s hardly something good. Although, perhaps, some kind of puppet regime will operate on its territory, unfortunately controlled by the United States, which will enter the vast pool of "backbenchers" from Europe and will "yap" on command. On who will be pointed out.
    And the "Ukrainian people" will partly continue to ride on the Maidan and accumulate "grievances" against Russia, and partly they will travel to Russia to earn money.
    Next is the opinion for the conspiracy theorists. Actually, the situation with the Ukrainian government itself is strange to me. On the one hand, Poroshenko is the head of a state that is clearly hostile to Russia, on the other, he has a lot of property on the territory of Russia. This property is not taken away by anyone, although the legal basis for this is quite simple (at least within the framework of the fight against terrorism, because the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the territory of Donbass can hardly be called terror). However, nothing is done about it. One gets the impression of a "strange war" ... well, or the usual Russian sloppiness. As one smart man said, one should not look for conspiracies where everything can be explained by simple human stupidity. (But the scale of this nonsense is impressive!)
    The only thing is that people feel sorry. But, as another smart person said, every nation has the government that it deserves.
    1. Jääkorppi
      Jääkorppi 3 September 2016 00: 23
      Well, the Russian bourgeoisie, led by Yeltsin, had a hand
  12. Baloo
    Baloo 2 September 2016 08: 16
    Дear, speak and fight the idea? Yes, you’re cool, there’s nothing to say. It seems that your entire Battle Charter consists of two chapters: the destruction of the civilian population by shelling and the total and rapid flight.
    There are neighbors, sick slightly on the head. Nothing, we are Russian, patient. Let us wait, suddenly feel better.
    I am enemies of the Nazis who seized power in Kiev. By the way, for some reason, the majority of them have Ukrainian origin under a huge question. As well as citizenship. So, what kind of Ukrainians are these Valtsmans, Terchers, Firtashi and other Groismans and Avakovs with Saakashvili - this is another question of the type of minced meat.
    all that your APU can do is to cowardly bombard the peaceful neighborhoods of Donetsk and Lugansk that have not surrendered. And no spirit, no idea will help them. Yes, and the spirit, I'm sorry, you have one ... with a sweetheart.

    A worthy answer to the sick neighbors. Themselves put on the neck of small-town bandits, lay the bedding under the geyropu and the Macington macaques, and again Russia is to blame? Donbass and Crimea did not want to be slaves of the Macington macaques and home-grown banderlogs, the miners do not know how to ride.
    But Ukraine such as retvisan is slowly decaying and decomposing. Only those who do not want to escape from Ukraine, if Che, do not want to understand this.
  13. parusnik
    parusnik 2 September 2016 08: 18
    Orders at Ukrainian factories to the detriment of their own? Get it.
    ... Here, here ... our enterprise, to the detriment of our own ... ordered a crankshaft in the Ukraine .. for a tugboat ... installed ... after installation ... for three years this tugboat has not been repaired .. lost the market, and of course the money. .Thank you, like the Slav brothers ... This is so by the way ...
  14. captain
    captain 2 September 2016 08: 19
    I liked the article, the author quite correctly expressed his opinion. If someone does not like him, then he can state his vision of the issue. Now about the patriots. I agree with a number of commentators who write that they are unhappy with Skomorokhov. They write about epaulets and their insignificance, about the fact that minuses were removed in vain. I also think that in vain. By cons, you could judge the people who visit the site. But leave these minuses in the order in which they were earlier, it is impossible. You put a minus, justify why. And so, as some have gained advantages, under each article about Russia and its successes, about the USSR and its history ... Type; very happy, we will win, tear them all and disperse ... And now they are suddenly outraged that they are not allowed to express their opinion.
    1. Mooh
      Mooh 4 September 2016 18: 55
      There used to be relative democracy and the people minus those whom they wanted. Now - the dictatorship is not minded by very public moderators.
  15. Scud
    Scud 2 September 2016 08: 24
    My, God forgive me, my countrywoman Retwizan resembles a slug that is not so easy to squeeze with facts or a club. All this stubborn reptile hohlohunta is completely numb. You can somehow understand the volunteers who threw their nenko to protect. But the simple question is - to protect whom? Those ghouls who burned the Berkutovites in Kuev, burned civilians in Odessa, Mariupol. One lady with a scythe in her hands under the angry howl of another lady but with a scythe on her head and the like didn’t go weakly along the southern and eastern Ukrainian cities, and many of us, Ukrainians, all bring down Russia.
    How ashamed I am for Ukraine
    Country P.I.ndosovsky slaves
    The country where every cattle
    Ready to serve Bendera
    Outstretched country
    Who forgives, who serves
    A country where new heroes
    bandit, fascist and pederast!
    1. mr.redpartizan
      mr.redpartizan 3 September 2016 12: 30
      Everything is said to the point!
  16. Riv
    Riv 2 September 2016 08: 43
    The author makes one critical mistake. So critical that the article is useless initially. Namely: he is trying to logically explain something to a Ukrainian.

    Comrades, this is useless. Modern Ukraine, in principle, does not understand the logical arguments if they do not fit into the schizophrenic picture of Svidomo. For a schizoid, there is only his own logic, and trying to get into it with his own is only time to lose. It needs isolation and treatment. Well, or euthanasia. The latter option is much simpler and most likely the Ruin will simply disappear from the globe.
    1. mr.redpartizan
      mr.redpartizan 3 September 2016 12: 34
      Ukrainians look confidently into a full European future
  17. guzik007
    guzik007 2 September 2016 08: 56
    It is reasoned, calm, detailed ... but why throw the beads in front of the pigs (not an insult, but according to a proverb). I have long understood that logical thinking is not peculiar to our neighbors. It causes in them a hysterical frenzy of the brain, smoothly turning into interjection, heavily strewn with obscenities.
    I remember three years ago, a colleague. Having bought a smartphone, he showed me an interesting function - to talk to whoever you want around the world. For several days we "communicated" with the Pravosek people directly. By the manner of communication, the construction of phrases, it was clear that a person is an excellently trained agitator working specifically for the Russian audience. He was like a zombie telling us how bad we live, what salaries we have in the country and how Russians eat the last horseradish without salt. When I laughingly told them my version of my life, about my salary and living conditions, it was heard how the same "brothers in arms" huddled around him screamed hysterically: ... are you talking to this ...? He's lying like a gray gelding, such a bastard, he changes the car every four years ... All of them live outside Putin's ... and with such anger and hatred that I realized that nothing can be done to convince these people, these are either a complete blackout, or, if the blood is on the hands, a waste.
    I understand that Banshee has such a job, I can’t communicate with IT, conduct explanatory work. Therefore, plus.
    1. black
      black 2 September 2016 12: 30
      I in the Donbass also talked at night. At first they spoke for life, and then the interlocutor found out that I was the same separatist from the Donbass. How they stuck. laughing People immediately forgot the normal language. They started talking in journalistic cliches.
  18. Alekseits
    Alekseits 2 September 2016 09: 56
    Quote: Riv
    The author makes one critical mistake. So critical that the article is useless initially. Namely: he is trying to logically explain something to a Ukrainian.

    Comrades, this is useless. Modern Ukraine, in principle, does not understand the logical arguments if they do not fit into the schizophrenic picture of Svidomo. For a schizoid, there is only his own logic, and trying to get into it with his own is only time to lose. It needs isolation and treatment. Well, or euthanasia. The latter option is much simpler and most likely the Ruin will simply disappear from the globe.

    If I could have 1000 "+" put, unfortunately, only one.
  19. Massimo
    Massimo 2 September 2016 10: 18
    You can’t say better, they just forgot to answer about our vacationers in the Donbas, in two Chechen wars, Ukrainian lads often came across not
    the federal side. So, no offense - "Buratino, you are your own enemy"
    1. dumpy15
      dumpy15 2 September 2016 10: 42
      If you peer at Ukraine for a long time, Ukraine begins to peer at you. (from)
      Everything is very sad.
  20. Retvizan
    Retvizan 2 September 2016 11: 14
    Roman, why write an entire article on the opinion of one, of course I understand. It is about the opposite opinion. And although it wasn’t particularly worth it, all the same, opinions should not coincide, even in a monastery.
    Thank you for your close attention to my person. Not expected.
    I'll start the answer. Much has been written, if you argue on all points, there will not be enough time at once.
    Active parties are not those who are "themselves" or similar. The censor is not an argument at all. Is there a possible dispute? People turning the site into a trash heap should be banned. I’m talking about a situation where for the position of Ukraine - the opponent was forced to argue with the entire site and logically fell into offensive nicknames and ended with shit and removal. It is impossible to argue with everyone at the same time.
    And in the midst of "Spring", it was unrealistic to say anything at all.
    Now about me. I am an ordinary citizen of Odessa. Having close relatives in the Russian Federation. No official Kiev is close to me. On the contrary. I stress in every possible way that Kiev and Moscow (more precisely the Bank and the Kremlin) are a single gang of watering cans. And their interests are similar. The interests of the peoples have nothing to do with them. They did not smell like Spring, or at any other time. And even more so now. Even if you suspect in me "MinStetsya" - I will say right away - that the methods of Kiev I do not just do not like - they are directly opposite to the interests of MY COUNTRY. And by the way, for me the country still includes two fragments (Ukraine and Russia). Since we are talking about the Motherland (one might say the Small Motherland), then naturally I defend it. If I were in the place of the official Kiev, I would have acted differently. Frankly forceful methods are not for me. So no war can be won.
    About the orders. En 148. So you can remember where the best example of An 70 is. A lot of money and the result is even worse. This is the highest policy - for the sake of it, much has been ruined in the bud. And to argue with En 148 - there are whole branches for and against.
    About my words about enemies. So the countries have been brought to the status of "almost enemy" And we, by our actions, even in VO, bring to this status the definition of "peoples are enemies." Despite the fact that the interests of the peoples did not even come close in this war! But this idea is being lowered to us. And we joyfully shout "the Ukrainians are to blame there and there," and there, "these Russians ..." and in that spirit. You can replace “Ukrainians” with “Belarusians” and in the future substitute even Muscovites and anyone else. Divide and conquer .. I hate the idea of ​​fighting with the Russian Federation at all (this is not the interests of the Russian Federation). But indirectly it is the same. Our countries are involved in it!
    Trying to "buy". Yes, usually the loyalty of Kiev was bought in this way - we give you a penny, we share it together and everyone is good. Nobody worked with the Ukrainian society. An ordinary gang of watering cans divided the national treasure of Russia into two. And an ordinary Ukrainian has nothing to do with gas. But the gazosrach killed a lot of sober brains and friendship! But not a single "Presidents' business trader"
    As for military bases in the Crimea. Even when he was in 2013, he wrote that finding bases in Sevastopol is a guarantee of our security at the World Cup. And it is beneficial for us. For me, Sevastopol is a city of Russian sailors. And then and now. I was in Crimea 4 times, there I met my future wife. Thus, a Ukrainian-Russian family was created. And in the family spit out how politicians divide us.
    about all the reproaches that there was no Ukraine, that there were no Ukrainians. Yes, here you can argue - time is not enough for life. I will respond with a compromise. Even if you shorten the age of the nation, then it is now 100 years old. But you can’t change the Ukrainian for Little Russia anymore. Yes, and why? There is no difference from the name. For me, Ukrainian is identical to Russian. One thing is the same. I am generally globalist. All white people in general are almost the same and our global world does not suffer petty problems. The problem - the existence or non-existence of the Ukrainian people is not relevant. Just used in info war. Like you were not and in general you are Russian. And then the opposite opinion, you are not Russian, you are generally no one. Everything is confused even among Russians. But I don’t care, Russians, Ukrainians - there are only virtual borders and interests, but not peoples.
    So the main idea of ​​my comment was that you are fighting a war (more precisely, all of us) with people like you. That is, with its reflection. And all the moments, all the arguments, all the best and worst sides - are inherent in both sides. They are the same. And this is the trouble. There is no victory. Only Pyrrova.

    About militarization and reproaches. Mriya has already been refuted. Why should I refute everything, everything that participates in the information war? Yes, only hats are beneficial to me. But I don't want the "conflict" to enter our society. Now hysteria in Ukraine is subsiding. Maybe something will turn out. Militarization is dangerous for both peoples. Revanchism can be long and dangerous.
    I’ll add the answer already at work.
    1. gorgo
      gorgo 2 September 2016 12: 42
      I just wanted to say two things.
      1. But what if Russia does not fight, huh? I personally have not been to the Donbass, I have not seen it myself, so I am forced to draw information from the media. But I saw the Maidan and I remember how unscrupulously lied to the Ukrainian media then. And then the same gradually moved to the Russian invasion. I saw how many lies they poured during the Maidan and I see not the slightest reason to believe these media in anything, including the Russian army in the east. And if we admit that the war is going on with our own population, it will change a lot in your opinion, right?
      2. Look at the problem more broadly. The question is not "Ukraine - Russia", but "West - Russia" - these are, as you say, two big differences. In this context, the annexation of the Crimea and even the military organization in the east appears as an act of defense, an attempt to save at least something. In the war between the West and Russia, the latter is losing today, because Ukraine is occupied, only Crimea and a little Donbass were saved, the rest does not belong ... no, not Russia, it does not belong to Ukraine itself! This is 1942 in the most literal sense. Maybe you didn't know, but under the German occupation in Kiev, there was a Ukrainian administration on Mikhailovskaya Square, and yellow and blue flags were hanging, and the hryvnia went around. Isn't this a repetition of history?
      So, if you understand these two things, then there’s nothing more to talk about, any sane person will only nod his head.
      1. commoners
        commoners 3 September 2016 09: 03
        But what if Russia does not fight, huh?
        Not fighting, when a couple of Russian Army planes appeared at the Khmeimim airbase, the Americans immediately dumped a bunch of satellite photos where it was captured, with the appropriate headings. And nothing in Donbass, for two years only unfounded statements of "partner Petit" and others like him.
    2. Fitter65
      Fitter65 2 September 2016 13: 28
      Well, according to the rebuttal An-225-only Ukraine refuted.
      The Ukrainian company Antonov, which is part of the Ukroboronprom state concern, has stated that it does not transfer to China intellectual property rights and the rights of the holder of the certificate of An-225 Mriya transport aircraft. Despite the fact that earlier it was reported that an agreement on the An-225 program was signed between Chinese and Ukrainian companies. The second stage of cooperation involved joint serial production of the aircraft in China under the license of Antonov. IReactor correspondents asked political analyst Anatoly Wasserman to clarify why the Ukrainian side’s refusal to transfer rights to Beijing could be related.

      “Not yet handed over - this means that the process has already been started, but has not yet begun. First, the An-225, like all Antonov’s flying planes, was developed in Soviet times, and there is a very significant part of intellectual property make up Soviet developments. I do not exclude the possibility that the Russian Federation also has a significant part of these rights and could very well have protested that the Antonov state enterprise disposes of what does not belong to it. I must say that the relationship of all developers from around the world with China is quite tense, since the People's Republic of China refers to the concept of intellectual property quite freely and has repeatedly copied something even without permission. Therefore, in cases where it is possible to limit China’s access to any development, all developers are willing to take this opportunity. So it is quite possible that the point is in the Russian Federation. True, Ukraine is extremely dismissive of the requirements of the Russian Federation, since Ukromna was originally conceived as an anti-Russian and anti-Russian structure, and the current terrorist group captured Kiev precisely under the slogans of maximally damaging Russia. But here the position of China itself is also important. China is well aware that, unlike Ukraine, the Russian Federation will not go anywhere, it will have to work with it for decades and centuries. Therefore, China, unlike Ukraine, takes this kind of requirements quite seriously. China, of course, is seeking the opportunity to copy various Russian developments, but it does this, as a rule, not in a snap, but with legal crocheting. Therefore, I think that if the Russian Federation really expressed a rather sharp dissatisfaction with the behavior of Ukraine, then China took our position into account. ”
      1. Retvizan
        Retvizan 2 September 2016 16: 12
        there is another "zrada" The plane is not given. But the firm is incomprehensible. In general, you need to wait in more detail.
        I would beware of doing "zrada / peremogi" out of the blue. And then the slogans are shouting one and the second (Russians - Sold Mriya, Ukrainians-Ur sold the second unfinished to China)
        But how is it really?
    3. a housewife
      a housewife 2 September 2016 14: 01
      Wow, how many curtsies and excuses !!! The tree is recognized by its fruits. What are the fruits of Ukraine’s attitude to Russia, to the Crimea, to the Donbass? List? Everybody knows. And in the opposite direction? Everyone also knows. What other logic do you need? By the way, whatever policy you take, he can also logically and convincingly substantiate his position. Including Hitler, for example. So it was necessary to conduct a dialogue with him, and not to fight? But if Russia is to fight (God forbid!) Will be forced to Ukraine, then everyone will immediately understand-Russia is at war. And this, too, will not need evidence. And the fact that a person must defend the position of his country, because he lives in it, as some write here, so from my point of view, this is also wrong. Did the Germans in fascist Germany all have to behave like this as one? It is clear that in public they had to do this (for the few who understood the horror of what was happening). However, these fell silent and waited. But it’s publicly to interpret that fascism is great, life under Hitler is just wonderful, the government is doing everything right — it had to be an idiot. And retvisan does just that, and defends his country, because he lives in it. The country defends, although what this country does is disapproving. Split personality? But there is no country. There is a territory rotten managed by filthy little people. Yes, there are normal people of different nationalities. But they were swollen. I would live there - would also swell. Do you protect such people? It’s strange somehow to defend - from us, so that we do not insult them. And we do not insult them. They are sorry. And all the ridicule relates to those individuals who jump, scream, shout that the Russians are to blame for everything. And your beauty Odessa, a hero city, to the ears in shame, and here, too, the Russians are to blame? When it is all over - once all this nonsense ends - it will be interesting to listen to everything that all these pharions, coats, and others like to say later. And you, retweisan. Therefore speak, speak.
      1. Retvizan
        Retvizan 2 September 2016 16: 19
        I am defending the country, (The interests of Russia and not the Russian Federation are not alien to me either), but by the country I do not mean the politicians who created this conflict nor the citizens who participated in the deterioration of the already poor state.
        In the end, it is possible.
        We ourselves are to blame for many (if not all) of what happened.
        As for Odessa, you are mistaken.
    4. Lord blacwood
      Lord blacwood 2 September 2016 15: 43
      Quote: Retvizan
      As for military bases in the Crimea. Even when he was in 2013, he wrote that finding bases in Sevastopol is a guarantee of our security at the World Cup. And it is beneficial for us.

      About bases you are wrong.
      Yes, our bases protected you. But in 2014, your power changed. And the new government was pro-American, and therefore, defended (and continues to defend) the interests of the United States. And the United States was beneficial to occupy the base in the Crimea, and thereby gain a strategic advantage in the Black Sea. And your authorities would drive us away, and this is a detriment to our interests.
      As a result, we occupied Crimea, and prevented the emergence of a threat at our borders.
      1. Retvizan
        Retvizan 2 September 2016 16: 43
        2013 is the year before Maidan. He was not there before writing my opinion.
        What contradicts your part about protection?
        As for the power, well, in 2004 it also changed to frank Americanism. Yusch will give Poroshenko a head start. And there was nothing. And it changed quickly. And here the fact of Crimea for a long time can consolidate "Poroshenko" - and no "Yanukovism" will come to replace him. And maybe even worse.
        Poroshenko is a partner of the Russian Federation. It is unlikely that he would have touched anything. They have common interests.
        You did not prevent Crimea, but exacerbated the Russian business in Ukraine. I wrote earlier either all of Ukraine in the Russian Federation or not. If part of it is all lost and feuding.
        1. CTEPX
          CTEPX 3 September 2016 06: 46
          You did not prevent Crimea, but exacerbated the Russian cause in Ukraine.

          If in Crimea the "polite people" had not rooted out the Wahhabite bases, all this rag-tag (70 thousand bayonets) that invaded Iraq in 2014 would have been in Crimea, having entered there on the shoulders of the "maydanuts" under the guise of an indignant Crimean Tatar people ... We (Ukraine and Russia) would get the beginning of TMV on our territory under the supervision of NATO, and oil stolen from the Middle East would serve as the fuel of this war)).
    5. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 2 September 2016 16: 25
      With our reflection, you say, are we at war? Girl, in Donbass, getting ready for school in the morning, she comes up to the mirror near the window and sees her reflection, and a "hailstone" flies through the window, spreading everything into dust .... Reflection? !!! Congratulations, sir, you again managed to deceive yourself, in another clumsy attempt to appear here as an adequate opponent ... A sort of Kovtun-light. Wow - and yet many were led.
    6. YUG64
      YUG64 2 September 2016 16: 47
      "You are waging a war, with the same as you ..." - Competently put this message at the end ... Placed at the beginning, no one would read further ... Dosvidos, amigo !!!
    7. g1v2
      g1v2 2 September 2016 16: 55
      Personally, I do not think that it is necessary to shut up the representatives of the party whose opinion is expressed by Retwisan. It allows you to understand how people think there. Last year I trained trainees from Ukraine and rummaged a little in their brains. Tch approximately represent a picture of the world of an ordinary Ukrainian inhabitant like Retvisan. This is 40 percent of the population of Ukraine and it is necessary to work with them, and not shut up their mouths.
      Personally, I have a fairly simple opinion. Ukrainian is a designation of territorial and nationality, which the ruling elite of this country is trying to make nationality. There are 4 branches of the Russian people living on the territory of this country - Little Russians, Great Russians, Galicians and Rusyns. And now they are trying to mix them all and convince them that they are not Russians, but Ukrainians are the new artificial nation. And the evil Russians always offended them. The Ukrainian elites do this on purpose and for purely practical reasons. I strongly advise Retvisan to get acquainted with the 2014 Gena Korban interview - a lot will become clear. There he openly says that Ukraine should become a big Latvia. Latvia hates Russia and Ukraine should hate it. And he openly says that the propaganda of hatred of Russia is their task. He speaks directly about many things; I advise you to familiarize yourself with where the hatred of Russia comes from. He has many frank interviews. By the way, it will become clear why Kolomoisky was removed just after Korban’s interview.
      Putin said clearly - Russians and Ukrainians ARE ONE PEOPLE. Not fraternal or friendly, but just one. Opponents are trying to crank out everything that happens there.
      Finally, personally, my IMHO. The Ukraine project is initially an anti-Russian project to break away part of its people and turn it against Russia. As long as this country exists, the conflict will smolder. My IMHO - Ukraine should be annexed to the Russian Federation. Good or by force - it doesn’t matter. Only this will help to avoid endless confrontation, like Indo-Pakistani or Sino-Taiwanese. hi
      1. Retvizan
        Retvizan 2 September 2016 18: 06
        somehow I try to be above disputes about who the Ukrainians are, he is too politicized.
        I also have a simple opinion, at first under the USSR (the same thing) and now in the global world (no similar climate differences)
        I did not believe in "evil Russians" and do not believe.
        I heard about "Big Latvia". Indeed, there are certain actions in this direction. But here is an ambush. All relatives or too "separatists" starting with the language. Although the water wears away the stone. It's already sadder here.
        But the nuance from where hatred went violent is precisely because of the Crimea and Donbass. She penetrated where she fought back. And without partners in the Kremlin, Kiev didn’t succeed. Yusch witness. He tried much better than Poroshenko.
        Putin is a politician. He said a lot of things. The trouble with politicians is their language. And promises ... that's another topic.
        As for the conclusions on accession. I agree. But then again, either all or trouble. From here, the Indo-Pakistani version just really shines for us! And I want to avoid this. And the system of balances in the world is just trying to create something like that.
        1. German Titov
          German Titov 2 September 2016 20: 50
          SchA, I will be imbued with "and love" an ordinary "Odessa acquaintance" (I lived and worked in Odessa for more than 2 years), who answered my question "What happened there?" area ". SchA, I'll make new friends with those colleagues who called me during the shelling with the questions "When will you calm down there? We are ready to take weapons and calm you down personally." At the same time, they forgot that I pulled some of them out of the shelling in Afghanistan. Nothing, especially "active" returned from Donbass (partially, that is, for spare parts). It was a very competent step to declare a "blockade of the LDNR". Russia could not have come up with anything better in order to remove the Ukrainian currency from circulation. Now Ukrainian goods are imported either through Russia or "contrabass". It turns out great. It stands like the Ukrainian "Mriya", but as it was ..... and it remained. According to the eternal "food" (price-quality), it turned out very well. Quality products at a cheaper price. With pensions, it happened so mentally. For the period from July 2014 to November 2014, PFCs have not paid me a dime. They gave me a memorandum "We owed you UAH 34000." and filmed. God grant that the money for the right business will go to a hemp rope with a household soap for the entire leadership of the country 404. And as for the hatred of Russians, Ukrainians, Moldovans, so their "netuti" here. If you see a man with "slanting eyes" in the photo, he is not from the Buryat horse riot police. This is probably a descendant of "Uncle Misha Gorbunov" (Buryats, who worked at our mine in the Donbass).
        2. YUG64
          YUG64 2 September 2016 22: 34
          Back in the summer of 2013, long before the Maidan, I found videos with young Ukrainian horses shouting "Moskalyaka on a gilyaka!" In the YouTube channel, etc. Hatred of Russia and all Russian Ukrainian youth has been instilled for a quarter of a century, and after Crimea -she just more clearly climbed out of all the cracks, this time-with foam and curses ... An attempt to explain this hatred by Crimea and Donbass is an awkward lie, shifting shit from a sore head to a healthy one. Ukraine as a state will always be anti-Russian, for that was created back in 1918. And the collective West will always plant Russophobia in it by all means ...
        3. CTEPX
          CTEPX 3 September 2016 06: 54
          Retvizan. Here Indo-Pakistani version is just very shining for us!

          The Russian world (and today all civilization) has only one real enemy, this is the Anglo-Saxon way of life.
    8. guzik007
      guzik007 2 September 2016 19: 31
      I strongly emphasize that Kiev and Moscow (more precisely, Bankova and the Kremlin) are a single gang of watering can. And their interests are similar. The interests of the peoples have nothing to do with it.

      Ha! In some ways (not so tough and uncompromising of course), I agree with Retvizan! I remember, in my "first life" on the site, about the enthusiasm of the Crimeans after the reunification, I had the imprudence to say, wait, they say, our bureaucrats will come and your joy will fade somewhat. Already they minus minus, they tore me up. (Almost like Bulgakov)
    9. Jääkorppi
      Jääkorppi 3 September 2016 00: 33
      Yes, the bourgeoisie are sitting in the Kremlin, but the Russians (all regardless of blood and religion) defend national interests, and do not fall under the American uncle. We have already understood: they will come and take everything away. And globalism is a liberal fiction and, if you are a globalist, then you still need to be the bourgeois who robs you, so forget about independent Ukraine. And rejoice that you are not yet automatically protecting the interests of the world bourgeoisie!
    10. aba
      aba 4 September 2016 13: 19
      I am generally globalist.

      With this, you could start your comment so that others would know to read further or not!
  21. Lord_Bran
    Lord_Bran 2 September 2016 11: 15
    If I lived in Hohland, then I would go to refusal to the last. And it turns out that they wanted the best, but it turned out as always. It's a shame, I guess.
    Let them live in this reserve. T just not with us.
  22. uskrabut
    uskrabut 2 September 2016 11: 35
    "There are neighbors who are slightly sick in the head. Never mind, we Russians are patient. We will wait a little longer, and suddenly it will feel better."
    Something does not let them go for a long time. Although, probably, the 25-year-old propaganda of all sorts of Russian occupations and famines is affected. This is a couple of generations with brains grown to one side.
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 2 September 2016 11: 55
      uskrabut "This is a couple of generations with brains on one side."

      About their brains, they said, it's your mistake! They have just a "ridge" in the shards, although the first four letters are clearly superfluous here.
    2. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 2 September 2016 20: 36
      In fact, during the time of the Ukrainian SSR, propaganda constantly maintained that the Ukrainians, although related to the Russians, were still a separate people.
  23. bk316
    bk316 2 September 2016 12: 48
    And in my opinion, Roman is very polite, I would say intelligently, he wrote everything.

    Retvisan advocates I think are doing classic mistake believing that if the system is built on logical reasoned reasoning, then it is true or at least suitable for controversy.

    This is not so: the logical harmony of the system is necessary, but not a sufficient condition. It is also necessary that these logical chains are based on adequate axioms. But Retvisan has problems with this. What are the axioms that underlie Retvisan's conclusions.

    1. The most obvious: he calls Russian genetically Russian or, in extreme cases, those for whom Russian is the first language.
    Consequence: Yarosh is Russian, and Mamushuly Bauyrzhan (re-read his books again - I advise) is not Russian. And in Ukraine, of course, Russians are at war with Russians.
    Obviously, this axiom is incorrect. Russian is a special mentality formed on the basis of Russian culture.
    2. Ukraine is a self-sufficient state, whose right to exist in its current form and borders is primordial.
    Consequence: Crimea and Donbass are Ukrainian, and gas is also Ukrainian, as it were.
    And this axiom is clearly incorrect.
    3. Ukrainians and Russians are one family, and what is possible for a Ukrainian in relation to Russian is certainly not Russian.
    Consequence: Ukrainians are offended and in general Russia owes a lot to Ukraine. Or for example, Ukraine can leave the USSR and Crimea from Ukraine - no.
    I would say this is not even one of the axioms - this is the national idea of ​​Ukraine.

    4. Russia and Ukraine are doomed to live together.
    Consequence: you can’t offend, you can’t fight, generally resist, you’ll have to live together anyway.
    Unfortunately, this axiom is considered by many to be true by many in Russia. I believe that it is not true, look at Finland.

    I could continue, but already these axioms are enough to build a completely false system.
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 2 September 2016 17: 00
      good worth comment.
      As for the Russians, I’ll clarify again, for me that the Russians are the Ukrainians, between them there is a very thin line of climatic conditions. And that’s all. And internally, as they imagine, this is only the basis for agreement or disagreement.
      In this case, they are the same people. And only a virtual border and real climatic conditions are a watershed.
      Ukraine is not completely self-sufficient. But if he is not able to compete for territory, he will die for sure.
      Crimea and Donbass. Planet Earth does not care whose they are. For a short time passed from hand to hand. But what they caused is a disaster.
      What can be Ukrainian and what can Russian, is decided by each person himself. The thesis Ukrainian can-Russian can not be not true.
      First, the Russian Federation left the USSR. Anyway, this is the biggest tragedy. Ukraine definitely did not get better. And the first referendum was against.
      The exit of Crimea affected the conflict situation. In 1991, nothing happened, now not.
      Finland is not an example.
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 2 September 2016 20: 27
        Retvizan "that Russians are Ukrainians, there is a very thin line of climatic conditions between them. And that's all."

        LN Gumilyova, not only you, dear, read ... about the "positive isotherm of January ..." In December 1985, on the 23rd, he arrived for the "transfer" to Swidnica / the extreme South of "Dolny Shlonsk" / "Snowball" was somewhere nearby (about 1,5 km. further Czechoslovakia), but I saw mountains on the horizon, although the volcanoes in Petropavylovsk-Kamchatsky were higher. Our officers sported in caps and boots, and I in a cap and regular boots. The point is not in the positive isotherm of January, but in the cultural and historical dominant. Someone will be ready to sell for "n" - hundred bucks, like the former CPSU + demoros, but someone will put land mines on the patrol routes of the occupation troops. LN Gumilev introduced such a term as "complementarity". If this very "complementarity" will tend to obey the so-called. "to universal human values" with the spreading of the legs of the "carriers of the XX chromosome" and the lubrication of the area of ​​their own anus to the carriers of the XY chromosome with special lubricants, we are not brothers.
      2. Stena
        Stena 3 September 2016 15: 18
        This is porridge! It’s pointless to argue - too eclectic pile of myths and legends with an overly emotional bias.
        I will only say one thing - why Ukrainians are mentally ill. Almost every Ukrainian considers himself to be a devout Christian (from those with whom I personally spoke). At the same time, in response to the question - "why did they go to the ATO" - "they pay money there." That is, for money, these Orthodox Christians are utterly ready to immediately violate the commandment "Thou shalt not kill." That's where you need to start - and only then - everything else. Opinion, of course - IMHO.
    2. Jääkorppi
      Jääkorppi 3 September 2016 00: 38
      But the Finns as a result of recent genetic studies have learned that they are Russian (Eastern Finns, so 100%). Now they don’t know what to do with such happiness. So it’s absolutely not necessary to make Russians Slavs, we have a lot of blood mixed in. And the Ukrainian nation appeared when the local bourgeoisie wanted to live independently!
  24. gorgo
    gorgo 2 September 2016 13: 07
    I am most outraged by such people who broadcast about the fact that Russia itself is to blame - it pushed away the Russian Ukrainians. This is just getting me crazy! There is only one argument - Russia started the war! I just can't find the words! Everything was happening before our eyes! Read the news of the times of the Maidan. remember! Yes, even here in VO there was
    ieva.html Pay attention to this paragraph:
    "The country practically does not exist anymore. In the western regions, the security forces either hand over their weapons to the protesters, or go over to their side. Ivano-Frankivsk regional council officially announced today that it does not recognize Yanukovych as a legitimate president and is ready to obey the so-called People's Rada. On the highways under Kiev already has blocks and checkpoints of militants. They move freely around the country and organize armed pogroms of local authorities, police, security services, even the army. If tomorrow Yanukovych somehow somehow decides to restore order in Kiev with a firm hand, he this, most likely, will do it. But this will actually mean the triggering and the beginning of a total confrontation throughout the country, i.e. a full-scale civil war. The western regions will finally refuse to obey Kiev, and it will be impossible to pacify them, because there is a majority the population will support such a decision, including the security forces and military units stationed there.go on the offensive. Moreover, they are already talking about it now. They say that now we are going to Kiev by trains and cars, and tomorrow, if this does not help, we will go by tanks and armored personnel carriers. The question may arise in such a way that not only will Western Ukraine be pacified, but will have to defend against it! "
    This is written by a Kievite on February 21, 2014! There is still no Crimea or Donbass, Yanukovych is the president! And we are already talking about "defending against the Westerners" who promise "to come to Kiev in armored personnel carriers"! Kiev surrendered without a fight, so they went to fight on - to the Donbass. It's as obvious as God's day! But no, everything is already forgotten, Russia has already attacked Ukraine and took away the territory. It's just phenomenal!
  25. Retvizan
    Retvizan 2 September 2016 13: 38
    I would like to add that you are initially wrong with the definition of "with a smart enemy." Reminded the phrase from "Angelica" - ".. if the enemy comes with an open visor, he is worthy of respect .."
    The trouble. if initially the dialogue is built on "enmity". After all, the dialogue should be built on the solution of our contradictions (despite the fact that we cannot solve them "from above", but we can "from below"). Despite the trenches and lines of defense, the whistle and howl of "buckshot" RTZO.
    Once I promised to go into topics about Ukraine at the VO. But, since he noticed a dangerous tendency for society to roll down the Ukrainian line (in VO and not only), he wanted to prevent this. Hurray patriotism did not lead Russia to good.
    Omitting all the emotions I wanted to summarize
    I clarified that the attempts will be (no matter what the consequences) because-
    1 --- there are the same people. Stubborn patient Ukrainians / Russians, no matter how they are called there. You push them, but they become stronger, you fire them and they are even more stubborn .. in general, what to explain to me is the same your reflection.
    2 - they also have "great-power interests" raised by the USSR. The concept of "Homeland is in danger" and "The war of our state is always fair" And here are territorial threats / losses
    3-they have a difficult political and economic situation + incomprehensible people in power. Also affects the heightened decision-making.
    Your position is also clear. "We are stronger, do what you want, but you won't succeed." The position is definitely understandable. Really strong. But you are not dealing with the Germans ... but you are dealing with those who are you. And he knows your strengths and weaknesses, he thinks like you.
    Those who pushed us (Washington, the Kremlin, Bankova, Brussels) very well calculated that this conflict would spill over to us all sideways. Victory on one side will not be here. Yes, and there will be no special changes.
    The whole process is just for the sake of the process.
    I repeat, what you extol as a "victory" for Russia is a defeat for all of us. And none of the "fascists / partners" out there can embitter everyone as we ourselves.
    We initially lost almost everything .. and Ukraine and Donbass and Russia (not the Russian Federation)
    So let's not lose what’s left .. its so little left
    1. Dym71
      Dym71 2 September 2016 14: 58
      Quote: Retvizan
      Your position is also clear. "We are stronger, do what you want, but you will fail."

      Here it is necessary to supplement, for clarity!
      It’s not just that we are stronger, but our strength is in truth, the truth is that Crimeans voluntarily returned home to Russia (not to the Russian Federation, as you like to write) which accepted them with joy, and the Russian Federation only carried out the necessary procedures as a subject of international rights. In the goodwill of people, our truth is precisely why nothing will work!
      Quote: Retvizan
      But you do not deal with the Germans ... but deal with those who are you. And knows your strengths and weaknesses, thinks like you.

      Of course, you think, like us, you’re not doing anything - the criminal inaction of society, namely, volitional passive behavior of citizens, became your motto on the mourning tape of the events of May 2 in Odessa, June 2 in Lugansk, and May 9 in Mariupol!
      Yes, and against the blockade of the same Crimea (especially the creation of the dam fool ) your objection was not visible.
      - "Keep thinking further." hi
    2. Jääkorppi
      Jääkorppi 3 September 2016 00: 44
      And we have not lost! We, unlike you, will fight both with Brussels and with Washington! And the independent will interfere with you. So do not be surprised, we have nowhere to retreat, behind Moscow. And we are not fighting for the Polish plunger. So you are not Russian. I met your brother in Europe and realized that it doesn’t depend on the surname! Both Rubenstein and Ivanov can be Ukrainians, this is a diagnosis!
  26. Winnie76
    Winnie76 2 September 2016 13: 39
    Quote: Retvizan
    About my words about enemies. So the countries have been brought to the status of "almost enemy" And we, by our actions, even in VO, bring to this status the definition of "enemy peoples".

    And I'm glad that we have finally decided on the "brotherly people". Somehow everything became clearer at once.
    Before, after all, as it was ... like brothers, friendship-peoples, drooling. But for some reason Hitler was greeted with bread and salt, they fought in Chechnya, planes were shot down in Georgia, villages were burned in Belarus, they poked us into ephemeral famines, they told us about the millennial occupation, gas was tapped, irrecoverable loans were taken by making faces at the same time, chanting " Mosca..y on knives "and no one was indignant.
    God forbid from such brothers, you will only wait to be sharpened in the side. You need to know the enemy by sight. I am glad that there is no more "friendship", illusions have dissipated, masks have been dropped
    1. gorgo
      gorgo 2 September 2016 13: 52
      Comrade dear, but it’s also impossible.
      And what, Hitler was greeted with bread and salt only in Ukraine? There were no collaborators anywhere else? And in Chechnya, weren't there their own traitors? It is ridiculous to talk about the "ephemeral" famine - this is a historical fact that everyone in central Ukraine knows about not from textbooks, but from the stories of grandfathers and grandmothers (believe me). It's another matter who is to blame for this nightmare, obviously not the Russians. Tyri gas and took loans, sorry, not Ukrainians, but those in power. And they used it too. In Russia, didn't this happen - I mean the gap between the people and the government? And any abomination about the Muscovites was shouted not only by not all Ukrainians, but not by Ukrainians in general, because I do not consider Galicians for Ukrainians.
      So, although there are many among our people who are far-sighted people who are easily influenced, there are still no enemies here. There is just a bastard, which is in any nation.
      1. Winnie76
        Winnie76 2 September 2016 13: 56
        And please bring me a similar photograph, not in Kiev, but say in Moscow or in Leningrad ... thank you in advance
        1. gorgo
          gorgo 2 September 2016 14: 31
          Hm. You want to say that the Ukrainian army fought with the Nazis or something? It seemed to me that the Red Army, the USSR Armed Forces fought. They could not defend Kiev, but they were able to defend Moscow and Leningrad. So what? Do you want to say that collaboration was absent in the occupied territories of the RSFSR?
    2. Jääkorppi
      Jääkorppi 3 September 2016 00: 51
      My grandfather, a real Little Russian, was the director of the Ukrainian school in Zolotonosha. He took the orphanage and his family to evacuation to Siberia, and he volunteered for the front and from 1941 to 1945 he marched to Elba! He hated Bandera trash with fierce hatred and did not represent Ukraine separately from Russia! And my aunt is 90 years old, went on May 9 to the march of the Communists, although the pravoseki rushed at them! So don’t need salt about bread for fascist dishonesty.
  27. Winnie76
    Winnie76 2 September 2016 13: 49

    Fraternal people meet liberators and really want in the EU
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 3 September 2016 22: 12
      Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Russian people? These are geeks! And in the Ukrainians, they are without exception, yes, the whole people
      "Spring 1942. From the essays on the topic:" What I went through during the German occupation. "
      Pupil of the 5th grade of secondary school No. 5 of Alexander LISINA:
      “On October 11, in the evening, after the battle, the Germans came in, tired and dirty. People who were impatiently waiting for the Germans, carried bread, salt, milk, greeted them as if they met liberators, siblings. Such people are traitors to the motherland. ”
    CONTROL 2 September 2016 14: 03
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    go over all the comments of Retvisan - the man is clearly not stupid. Even very clearly.

    That's quite possible...
    ... I ran: unevenly somehow! "Ambiguous", like the "daughter of a Crimean officer" ...
    You read some comments - well ... You start to feel like a kind of "Chevalier a la san pere e san reprosh" ... (alas, in fact, they are not) ...
    Again - I personally have a good sense of vocabulary and literary style; it seems to me that "retvisan" is present on some "utterly stoned" forums - Russian! - with a mighty predominance of "Svidomo" and "censored"! "Politforums", for example ...
    ... The ideological struggle is entering a new, unknown phase? moves to a new, unprecedented stage? ...
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 2 September 2016 17: 07
      I'm flattered of course, but I will disappoint. No, I am not a member of the forum you have indicated.
      My favorite is generals general-zh / ru
      From blogs-bmpd, casad, el murid-but I read and others. And I’m not registered anywhere. I read.
      So the most important was and remains VO.
      I do not engage in ideological struggle.
  29. Winnie76
    Winnie76 2 September 2016 14: 16
    Quote: gorgo
    And what, Hitler was met with bread and salt only in Ukraine? There were no collaborators anywhere else?

    I watched an interview from Ukraine during the Maidan period. According to my estimates, 90 percent were for integration with the EU, 10 percent for the "Taiga Union". How so. We were still "like brothers" then. So 90% of the population are collaborators?
    1. gorgo
      gorgo 2 September 2016 14: 21
      Where did you look, sorry? I tell you as a local - in 2013, when there was a frantic advertisement of European integration, a good half of the country was for rapprochement with the Russian Federation. Despite the creepy media press. Believe less in what you see.
      1. Winnie76
        Winnie76 2 September 2016 14: 35
        I watched Ukrainian TV, you're right. Well Ok, let it be not 90, let it be 50 according to you. This means that 50 percent of the population is ready to exchange their "brotherhood" for European pensions, salaries, education, panties (substitute the necessary). Too much, you don't think. 50 percent of 40 million is a whole nation. Who is ready to spit in the back of his brother in order to work out the EuroZP.
        And the funniest thing to do is to work out, but there are no and no European salaries expected.
        1. gorgo
          gorgo 2 September 2016 14: 58
          You know, in the conditions of that information attack on all without exception TV channels, on the net, in newspapers, speeches of politicians and public figures, at schools and universities, I’m even surprised that as many as 50 percent remained true to themselves! And even today - think about it - Ukrainian media are publishing the results of a nationwide survey about integration, and there is 13% for integration into Eurasian structures! 13% - and this is without the Donbass and the Crimea, and this is in the face of not just information pressure, but information terrorism in the truest sense of the word, and this is the official data of the Ukrainian poll! This means that in fact there is not 13%, but twice as much! And this is in these conditions, through 2,5 years of information bullying. I really was surprised.
          Although, actually, I'm not going to argue with you about the mentality of our brother. To be honest ... there are very unattractive national features. And, let's say, "on his own mind" in the worst sense is one of them, of course.
      2. bk316
        bk316 2 September 2016 17: 18
        We are trying laughing In the sense of not really believing the media
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Retvizan
      Retvizan 2 September 2016 17: 09
      it was 50-50. But the info noise drew the survey data as he wanted.
      I remember Glazyev and Medvechuk perfectly. Figures too. The Moscow Treaty was considered a success.
  30. tolyasik0577
    tolyasik0577 2 September 2016 14: 17
    Striking human stubbornness and not a desire to look, as they say, facts in the eye. But actually this is not surprising. Starting from the first Maidan, about the condoms paid by the US State Department, allow the Nazis to march. Then, on all central channels this event is covered. Well, if so, it turns out that these are HEROES? Then the process is gaining momentum and there is already propaganda that the good and hospitable people of Ukraine have been oppressed and enslaved for 70 years. Well, and the consequence is a parade of liberators in Lviv, etc. And when for 25 years they say that Russia is a usurper and Europe is the crown of democracy, whoever you want, even the most mentally stable person will begin to believe in it. In the rest, we have what we have. The magnitude of the tragedy can be estimated by the special case of my wife’s uncle, dean of the university in Kiev, who hates Russia and Putin in particular. He accuses us of capturing Crimea, and he himself comes from Yevpatoriya. survived the occupation in the Second World War. It’s all to blame for the universal zombie concocted by America propaganda for a long time. Plus, the killing of people, the so-called heavenly hundred, and during the accused Russia in the person of the FSB hammered the last nail in relation to Russia.
    1. Jääkorppi
      Jääkorppi 3 September 2016 00: 53
      And Russian diplomacy profiled everything, as well as 20 billion of the country's 404 swelled into the economy
    CONTROL 2 September 2016 14: 19
    Quote: bk316

    3. ... what a Ukrainian can do with respect to Russian is certainly not Russian.

    Well, I do not!
    Quo is yovi! ... Just let the bull - he will do such a thing !!!
    In general, all this "national idea" is a consequence of a protracted (and not since 91! Much longer ...) freebies! Who else remembers how "we went to Moscow, the Baltic states, the Caucasus ... and Kiev to buy goods! ... Let me remind you:
    1. Lord blacwood
      Lord blacwood 2 September 2016 16: 32
      Surprisingly, Georgia also hates Russia and recalls the "occupation" of the USSR. And this is all despite the fact that Georgia consumed 4 times more than it produced! And the RSFSR was covered.
    2. bk316
      bk316 2 September 2016 17: 17
      A freebie is of course a terrible force in the matter of corrupting people who argue.
      But the Russians also love a freebie, and even the Jews love it, but they don’t elevate it to the rank of a national idea, but if they elevate it a little, but do not add it to the fascist absurdity.
  32. Operator
    Operator 2 September 2016 14: 23
    It is necessary to give the outskirts of Russia what she herself wants - the opportunity to engage exclusively in agriculture.

    It must be admitted that the accession to the Ukrainian SSR in the 1920 of the Donbass and Kharkov was an erroneous decision, as well as the deployment of design bureaus, factories and factories on its territory.

    We must fully promote the already ongoing process of de-industrialization of the Outskirts. Its future (with or without Russia) is fields and farms, climate and soil are suitable.

    Therefore, the so-called patriots of the Outskirts should be treated as Selyuk (village) - wretched people with a small-town level of culture and education.

    If one of them has a desire to break out of the idiocy of rural life - there is central Russia, the Urals, Siberia and the Far East.
  33. Egoza
    Egoza 2 September 2016 14: 43
    Zapadentsev did not fight with you and will not. They have neither experience nor the possibility of even anger, they have some kind of incomprehensible to us

    And here the dear is cunning. And they have experience since the Second World War and opportunities, weapons and carte blanche were given to them. However, we can say that they did not fight. They robbed there corny! No wonder "Novaya Pochta" enthusiastically described how many parcels it sent to Western Ukraine, including the forged gates. And fewer "lads" began to be attracted, when the coffins went there in a stream, and already the wives and mothers began to arrange blockades, and to send the men to work.
    As for the fact that "the Russians of Ukraine are fighting for integrity ..." You don’t want to remember how these Russians, as well as the Ukrainians, were driven into military registration and enlistment offices and faced with the fact "either you sign a contract or go to a pre-trial detention center from here. And think, you have here dad, mom, grandmother, etc. stay. " And how many of them sided with the LPNR? You don't want to know this, but for some reason you think that everyone is for the "idea" and "for Ukraine". except that "volunteers" such as "Azov" or "Tornado". These gangs will stand and fight for their "right" to kill and loot with impunity.
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 2 September 2016 17: 14
      I know very well that only "Upa" of them comes out perfectly. But to fight, it's hard to believe. Yes, and there was a table on the howling regions - so ahead of the Dnipropetrovsk region, Nikolaev - in general, that neither is that "Novorossiya". Only from the side of Ukraine.
      I don’t believe in zapadentsev at all. Not in culture, nor in military operations, nor in the economy.
  34. Egoza
    Egoza 2 September 2016 14: 48
    Quote: gorgo
    in 2013, when there was a frantic advertisement of European integration, a good half of the country was for rapprochement with the Russian Federation.

    I confirm. It was then that the results of the referendum, which tried to hold the Communist Party, were canceled, more than 50% were for the TS. But Yanyk and his comrades (so that a dummy got up across your throat) said that this referendum was not valid, because time regulations were unstable.
  35. pts-m
    pts-m 2 September 2016 14: 59
    The article is correct and I agree with all the author’s arguments. But as the neighbors say, they don’t choose what happened and it turned out. And the Urin lumpen are not used to thinking, they are more likely to hide fat on a quiet ruin night,
    CONTROL 2 September 2016 15: 01
    Quote: Retvizan
    Once I promised to go into topics about Ukraine at the VO. But, since he noticed a dangerous tendency for society to roll down the Ukrainian line (in VO and not only), he wanted to prevent this. Hurray patriotism did not lead Russia to good.

    And this, in particular, is a response to the "hurray-ukropatriotism" that flourishes among the "Ukrainian-Russian" public living in Russia for one reason or another ...
    Recently - for the first time in 30-35 years - I visited Crimea ... for work! Why are you, for all 25 years of "nezlezhnosti" you have not invested a hryvnia in Crimea? ...
    Quote: Retvizan
    Those who pushed us (Washington, the Kremlin, Bankova, Brussels) very well calculated that this conflict would spill over to us all sideways. Victory on one side will not be here. Yes, and there will be no special changes.
    The whole process is just for the sake of the process.

    And you were glad to try ?! With relish - and Yarosh, and "rabbit", and "bloody pastor" - that no one greeted? Turchinov started a civil war in a completely ordinary way - no one fumbled! Power ... far from the people ... But what people are far from life? Why did Lugansk and Donetsk arm themselves, but Kiev and Kharkov not? ...
    Why is the inalienable right of the state - and only the state! - The fascist Bandera arrogated to themselves to carry out armed violence - with the connivance of this very state!
    ... Before the eyes of the state, a crime was being committed - and it was a finger on a finger! ... Moreover, it took "their" side! ...
    And all this - even under Yushchenko it was (dispersal of the Rada), and you, panov - ate this ...
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 2 September 2016 17: 23
      Hurray patriotism in the Russian Federation did not begin with Ukraine. In particular, in VO he is a long time. But it was projected mainly on the USA, Poland.
      He grew up on Ukrainian topics (there was a reason-Crimea) and he went through the roof very much. This dulls the defense. For me, this is a negative factor.
      As for the Crimea and the hryvnia .. There campaign throughout Ukraine, so to speak smile
      Figuratively it is.
      About "try". Did I say it's good? This is a disaster! This Yatsenyuk with his Maidan, I did not like even before the Maidan. Besides, I consider Maidan a mistake.
      The state has a monopoly on violence. If the state is not able to defend itself, it disappears.
      It is very easy and pleasant to blame the "khataskrains". They are almost defenseless against any accusations. But the most interesting thing is that thanks to the "khataskrains" there is a chance for some kind of future.
  37. izya top
    izya top 2 September 2016 16: 54
    But the Russian Federation took it and instead of keeping loyal Ukrainians in loyalty--
    feed it until it bursts?
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 2 September 2016 18: 13
      labor fed them. They fed the "elite".
      Although it can be argued that the Ukrainians were "fed" as well. Through work on orders from the Russian Federation. But this is trade. It can be argued in this way that they financed the "loyalty of the French on the Mistrals"
      The cornerstone "to feed Ukrainians" is "to stop feeding Ukraine, Moscow, the Caucasus" and so on ..
  38. YUG64
    YUG64 2 September 2016 16: 59
    [i] I clarified that the attempts will be (no matter what the consequences) because-
    1 --- there are the same people. Stubborn patient Ukrainians / Russians, no matter how they are called there. You push them, but they become stronger, you fire them and they are even more stubborn .. in general, what to explain to me is the same your reflection.
    2 - they also have "great-power interests" raised by the USSR. The concept of "Homeland is in danger" and "The war of our state is always fair" And here are territorial threats / losses
    3-they have a difficult political and economic situation + incomprehensible people in power. Also affects the heightened decision-making.

    - It’s disgusting to even comment ..... We are not your reflection ... We didn’t betray our fathers and grandfathers, we didn’t make Nazis and executioners heroes .. Because it’s true for us, and for you it’s not never!!!
  39. The comment was deleted.
    1. Retvizan
      Retvizan 2 September 2016 18: 19
      But I did not and do not make them heroes. But the bulk do not have to choose. They have a very narrow corridor of opportunity.
      And again, this is a long conversation. The Yeltsin’s rehabilitation center is very unpleasant in fact. All kinds of boards. They say about Vlasov. I would not want Russia to have reached our lives.
      About the truth. Everyone has her own. But the truth is one. And she is unattainable.
      If you do not agree with my words about the mirror, consider a "crooked mirror".
      Your opinion is clear. I expressed my. In my opinion, that's right. I will be glad if everything goes well.
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 2 September 2016 19: 06
        Russians and Ukrainians are fighting hard at VO and other resources, if things continue to go on everywhere and in particular VO can be buried
        the ever-memorable trinity of little-white and Great Russians. the youth will grow up on stories about the katsai-pakhbenderlvites. By the way, I liked the song "Warriors of the Light", I am now a binderlvets
  40. certero
    certero 2 September 2016 20: 49
    It is written emotionally but generally correctly. Russia forgave Ukraine almost everything. Really. All that was required was for her not to bite her lactating hand. Even to rejoice, but just do not try to bite your elbow. But they couldn’t.
    Now it is clear that Russia's policy was erroneous, as they turned a blind eye to "funny textbooks", to the constant howl about "the damned Muscovites are to blame," and so on. negative in Ukraine. Even the notorious "in" began to be used.
    What now? Yes, too, what they did - to improve life and happiness in their country. And toughly uphold the interests of the country. Even if it’s Gazprom’s interests :)
  41. Mentor
    Mentor 2 September 2016 22: 32
    Quote: scaramuccio
    And the "Ukrainian people" will partly continue to ride on the Maidan and accumulate "grievances" against Russia, and partly they will travel to Russia to earn money.

    You have not quite accurately expressed, in general, the correct thought. They will go to Russia to earn money, and when they come on vacation to their homeland, they will ride on the Maidan.
    We, in Belarus, had some refugees ... Having received the help that the people gathered (not the state, but the people) began to trade it in the markets, and even started demanding more benefits. They returned them back.
  42. Prutkov
    Prutkov 3 September 2016 00: 09
    Reading the comments of Russians on the site, I am once again convinced that they absolutely do not understand what is going on in the minds of ordinary citizens of Ukraine. And even the completely pro-Russian notes of Tarakan, not all find understanding among the readers. 25 years of independence have done their job! And, alas, no one is trying to understand what Ukrainians still think. And that means not real actions in the struggle for these very Ukrainian brains and heads. There were no attempts to influence information from the Russian side until 2013. And now, after the shutdown of Russian channels, people generally live on another planet. Full vacuum. Yes, most Ukrainians do not believe either television or the Internet; But in the absence of alternative sources of information, they watch UkrTV. And there, we must pay tribute, they know how to raise the level of adrenaline. For three years, no one bothered to create at least a radio channel that could confidently broadcast to some part of the country. No one tried to explain to people why "America will fight against Russia to the last Ukrainian!" Retvizan is also a victim of propaganda. He is sure that those responsible for the troubles of the Ukrainians are sitting on Bankova Street in Kiev and, especially, in the Kremlin. Those. if you arrange another Maidan and change the government, then life will improve. And for that, you need to take the Kremlin by storm.
    1. bubalik
      bubalik 3 September 2016 00: 24
      Rods Today, 00: 09 New
      You started for health, finished for peace stop
  43. Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 3 September 2016 00: 10
    Being half real 100% Little Russian and half root Leningrad Finno-Ugric, that is, real Russian. As a person who spent a happy Soviet school summer in Ukraine, and who has a huge number of relatives there now, it seems that I have the right to express my opinion. Alas, we were not asked when the new party bourgeoisie collapsed the USSR. Mr. Retvisan expresses an official point of view on events, but does not want to look at objective facts himself. Ukraine has once again shown that countries that have no centuries of experience of independent state building, and even less so their history, cannot exist. One way or another, they turn out to be an object of geopolitical struggle. Russia cannot afford to have an American foothold at hand. This is a matter of survival. It is a pity that the inhabitants of Ukraine do not understand that neither the EU nor the States of Ukraine as a prosperous state is needed !! Its poor, illiterate residents are not needed. Geopolitically, this territory is needed only by Russia! However, prosperous Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, and the Baltic states are not needed. Only propaganda and a general low education can explain the nightmare that reigns in the minds of Ukrainians. I periodically communicate with my relatives. Honestly, I would be glad if they were finally given this visa-free visa! It makes no sense to argue with Retvisan, if he is not a Troll, and he has a little boy’s education, then sooner or later he will realize that Ukraine cannot simply be a prosperous country and exist separately from it due to Russia's 1000 year history. And local oligarchs came up with independence to stuff their pockets!
  44. Prutkov
    Prutkov 3 September 2016 00: 31
    The most interesting thing is that while Russians are measuring offenses with Ukrainians here, the fifth column is in full swing. Vaughn "Soldiers' Mothers of St. Petersburg" came up with a mobile application for Android for soldiers "Army and Law". SOS button type. If suddenly it becomes hard for the soldier, he will quietly press the coveted button on the gadget. And the entire civilized world will rush to save him, having previously determined his coordinates. It looks like "mothers" are moving from simple shit to espionage.
  45. The comment was deleted.
  46. treeton
    treeton 3 September 2016 06: 36
    Yes, their brains are notably washed. Phoned somewhere a year ago a relative, my tech. We talked about their affairs, without any policy. At the end of the conversation, I’m interested in whether they turn off the light, gas, water. No says do not disconnect. Of course, I am happy for her, and I dictate my phone number to her so that she writes down. She is an elderly man; she lives on a pension. I ask her to dictate to me the number that she wrote down to verify whether it is recorded correctly. And she answers me that she cannot read it. I asked why. She was silent for a moment and answered that there was no light. I did not ask why, before that she told me that the lights were not turned off. And he decided to say goodbye, but further surprised me even more. I wish, she tells me, that your Putin would soon die. I ask her, but that Putin then drove her bad. She answers me: he went to war with us and bombed us every day. I did not argue, said goodbye and hung up. And this is answered by a woman with a higher education that she received back in the USSR. I was wondering what they are fed on TV. I got on the Internet and watched their news. For myself, I realized that if I would only watch their media every day. I would also fuck ... ......
    1. mr.redpartizan
      mr.redpartizan 3 September 2016 13: 20
      UkroSMI can be safely watched as a comedy with very bad actors. And the comedy is VERY dumb.
  47. Smoke
    Smoke 3 September 2016 07: 46
    Quote: Retvizan
    But I did not and do not make them heroes.

    How did you not do it? And why didn’t you go to set fire to the school where you started teaching children about false history books? Why not even outraged? The rally was not organized? It was your direct duty and your duty! ... And this is your collective fault - my hut from the edge, я didn’t do anything! Personally, I Stepan Bandera also did nothing wrong - so high school children teach that Bandera is a hero ... Therefore, the state of Ukraine is doomed.
  48. vlad-58
    vlad-58 3 September 2016 08: 28
    Quote: Retvizan
    I still did not like this Yatsenyuk with his maidan. Besides Maidan I consider a mistake.

    "... we don't like him - but he bought it too!" Just like Raikin!
    ... Do you think it was a mistake? Hmm-hmm ... For this at least you have to learn how to count! Like: "Sir, you are a boor! I have the honor! ..." - and we continue to eat at the same table with him - with "sudar-boor" - some nito jamon with julienne (or more lard to taste?), Sipping chateau cabernet harvest ... twentieth year ...
    ... Is it possible, weakly? - It was in the face to give! Hama ...
  49. vlad-58
    vlad-58 3 September 2016 08: 46
    Quote: Retvizan
    Your opinion is clear. I expressed my. In my opinion, that's right. I will be glad if everything goes well.

    Here is an interesting observation: discussing politely and reasonably (even without typos in the text! - means emotionlessly, this is detached ...) the fascist - nevertheless, he remains so! Well, he does not accept other people's arguments and objections! Not imprisoned for this, not here for that! ...
    "... I say this not in the interests of the truth, but in the interests of the truth!" Facts and arguments are the fifth case; the main thing is the process of "ideological wrestling"! Which is known to have a well-prepared show ...
  50. spech
    spech 3 September 2016 13: 23
    At the very least, a person holding a different opinion than most can express it without fear of consequences. And this is a plus.

    And so you can write any stupidity, anyway a couple of times plus laughing